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Foundry Sunset, April 11th, 2019

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Yeah, as others as said- given the timing with the launch of the Endeavor system this looks like they are getting rid of the Foundry to force replay of specific Dev content. I hope that wasn't the case.

    The given reason is just about as bad, it sums up as "We can no longer afford to maintain the game we produced, so we're removing sections to reduce the work load to something we can handle". An evil side of me thinks, "Yeah, the income drop you've received from DSC based content has to be balanced somewhere"- but I don't have any evidence that this is really the case. Just wishful thinking.
    I've been using the Foundry almost since it was added to the game. The devs have fixed, broken, and re-fixed it with almost every major update. Problem is that, each time they did it, the result was more broken than before. It needed fixed in ways the dev team didn't know how to do. It would likely have required months for them to figure out what was wrong, and it would have required them to delay their plans for updating the main game.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • dariusturaldariustural Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    Looks like I will be spending less time....and no money....in this game now. Cheers!
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,462 Arc User
    So, pretty much like anything else they revamp? :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • grendelthewise#0990 grendelthewise Member Posts: 635 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    In short from the Stream:-
    STO is not shutting down anytime soon.

    I hope you are right. It would be a damn shame to see the game go
    Fleet Admiral of the U.S.S. ATTILA KHAN-CDA (NX-921911).
  • grendelthewise#0990 grendelthewise Member Posts: 635 Arc User
    veridian02 wrote: »
    Geez, seems all the conspiracy nuts and doomsayers are really showing up for this one. :smirk:

    I have resisted the tempation to say anything... Everything is already said. But this comment, comming FROM A MODERATOR is unaccepteable. I've been forum moderator, and this go against every single rule possible from an official forum.

    You must cry alot when you don't get your own way. Badmoon is well within his bounds. Get over it
    Fleet Admiral of the U.S.S. ATTILA KHAN-CDA (NX-921911).
  • marty123#3757 marty123 Member Posts: 666 Arc User
    > @baddmoonrizin said:
    > Geez, seems all the conspiracy nuts and doomsayers are really showing up for this one. :smirk:

    What’s with the smirk? It’s almost like you want people to be upset
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    I know the real reason the foundry is ending. Enterprising creators were making missions that streamlined the onerous endeavor process, and you want to force people to play STFs.

    Well congratulations, you just committed suicide. The foundry was a rare spot of color in a drab and tedious game. Good luck finding new jobs after this fiasco.
    OH... why did they close the Foundry in Neverwinter???
    Do they have Endeavors that they added recently??? I have not played that game in a while.
    Actually, yes, NW will have it's version of the 'Endeavor System' soon:
    The Neverwinter Foundry was just as prone to breaking for semi-arbitrary reasons as the STO Foundry, and probably just as difficult to fix.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,597 Arc User
    Yeah, as others as said- given the timing with the launch of the Endeavor system this looks like they are getting rid of the Foundry to force replay of specific Dev content. I hope that wasn't the case.

    The given reason is just about as bad, it sums up as "We can no longer afford to maintain the game we produced, so we're removing sections to reduce the work load to something we can handle". An evil side of me thinks, "Yeah, the income drop you've received from DSC based content has to be balanced somewhere"- but I don't have any evidence that this is really the case. Just wishful thinking.
    I've been using the Foundry almost since it was added to the game. The devs have fixed, broken, and re-fixed it with almost every major update. Problem is that, each time they did it, the result was more broken than before. It needed fixed in ways the dev team didn't know how to do. It would likely have required months for them to figure out what was wrong, and it would have required them to delay their plans for updating the main game.
    In fact, given the evidence of severe spaghetti coding, it would have required the complete discarding and rewriting of the existing system - possibly to include the game as such. I doubt very many people here would have been happy with STO becoming basically abandoned for the next year or three as the whole system is rebuilt from line 10.
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    Look, I'm not saying don't be upset, disappointed, sad, even pi$$ed off. But the talk about ulterior motives and predictions that the game will shut down are just getting ridiculous.
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  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 900 Arc User
    I do have to wonder what the actual statistics were for foundry usage. The impassioned responses from its devoted users is understandable but I would guess that it only attracted a small percentage of the games overall userbase. Maybe from a business standpoint it just wasnt worth the continued resource allocation? Given it did like to break a lot and was always missing many many assets.

    I do agree it is a shame to see it go but I would prefer actual missions being polished (and the ones being revamped coming back out) and for resources to be devoted to keeping the story going if I had to choose between the two.
  • fun4ever#6757 fun4ever Member Posts: 45 Arc User
    Whats a point of screaming DOOM...DOOM...?

    Vast majority of STO players don't care about foundry and dont notice when it's gone...

    And a lot of those "less than 40% PC players" regularly using foundry only to cheating personal endeavor system...
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    I get it, @mattjohnsonva . I really do. I hate to see guys like you go, if you do, but you do what you gotta do.
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  • oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    spoon2012 wrote: »
    The foundry also houses a lot of accolades and personal endeavours that making them a lot easier to complete
    This is, if anything, just another reason to axe it. One should not be able to bypass the game's systems by exploiting a broken Foundry.
    spoon2012 wrote: »
    Normal queues dont pop every often forcing player to go into advanced runs
    Except this isn't how the TFO system works, at all.

    With the introduction of the Random TFO system, if you queue up for a normal TFO, the next people who hit the random button will be put into that normal TFO. Normal TFOs pop just as much as advanced does now, have for some time.



    Personal Endeavours are easy enough to complete with patrols, adventure zones (what of them are left), and battle zones, with strategic use of the re-roll tokens. So, I don't buy that line of argument.

    In addition, you agree with a claim that the Foundry is an easy route for accolades, and keep harping that "only" 40% of PC players care about the Foundry. Well, I'm willing to bet that even less give a damn about accolades. If they get them, fine. If they don't, fine. I don't know of many in this game that make it a point of chasing accolades anymore (if ever). Especially, with the screwed up accolade system thanks to periodic cutting....err, I mean "streamling".... of content in the game.

    Face it. In-depth content/features are going the way of the dodo by all current indications. The future belongs to bit grinds and TFOs. Less work, less resources, and less manpower, which makes sense considering what I'm hearing of Cryptic currently running with a smaller team. But it's not good for the continuing health of the game. PWE needs to rethink things, in my opinion.

    And, no. Before some CDFer starts screaming that I'm spreading DOOM and "conspiracy theories", that isn't the case here. I'm merely calling it like I see it, and basing it on years of experience dealing with this kind of nonsense as a vidya player on both PC and consoles. I'm very well aware that I could be wrong on one or more points. In fact, I HOPE that I'm wrong on a couple of the above points.

  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,462 Arc User
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • acidbuk#5004 acidbuk Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    Look, I'm not saying don't be upset, disappointed, sad, even pi$$ed off. But the talk about ulterior motives and predictions that the game will shut down are just getting ridiculous.

    Dude, the fact that we have two Community Moderators trying to dismiss the idea of 'ulterior motives' by PW/Cryptic as mere "Conspiracy Theory" is in and of itself highly suspicions and means people might not be as far off. In all honesty You guys probably arn't any more privy to the Machiavellian Moustache twirling of the Cake Eaters than we are :P
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    I still don't understand where this 40% number is coming from.
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  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 900 Arc User
    > @baddmoonrizin said:
    > I still don't understand where this 40% number is coming from.

    A windy valley behind a junk yard.
  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    Look, I'm not saying don't be upset, disappointed, sad, even pi$$ed off. But the talk about ulterior motives and predictions that the game will shut down are just getting ridiculous.

    All games (except it seems the original EverQuest) die. This one will too, it's not a question of 'if' only one of 'when' and 'how'.

    Will this kill it? Don't know, frankly don't care that much. But saying that you can't maintain your game is not something you want to hear from a game company.
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,268 Arc User
    Look, I'm not saying don't be upset, disappointed, sad, even pi$$ed off. But the talk about ulterior motives and predictions that the game will shut down are just getting ridiculous.

    Agreed, I believe their reasons for shutting it down, and clearly the game is not in immediate danger. However, it all depends on the backlash from this, how severe it is. If, as I intend, folks vote with their wallets, and if the numbers of people that do that are reflected in the number who use the foundry as mentioned above, then this will really have a significant monetary impact such that they may have no choice but to reinstate and repair it. The problem then is how long will it take before they backpedal and then how long before they reinstate and repair? Too long and the whales will have walked, I think they may have underestimated the real world impact this decision is going to have on their business.

    The thing is, Matt, that there is only so much reach you can have alone when it comes to telling people not to spend money. People will either stop or they won't, particularly if they do not go on the foundry. However, I feel all you want from this is enough of an impact that Cryptic will listen.
    I get it, @mattjohnsonva . I really do. I hate to see guys like you go, if you do, but you do what you gotta do.

    Except that he's not leaving. All he's doing is closing his wallet. He still intends to play what's in the game, at least that's what I'm getting.

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  • oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    veridian02 wrote: »
    Geez, seems all the conspiracy nuts and doomsayers are really showing up for this one. :smirk:

    I have resisted the tempation to say anything... Everything is already said. But this comment, comming FROM A MODERATOR is unaccepteable. I've been forum moderator, and this go against every single rule possible from an official forum.


    It's not a good idea to question mods or moderation on these boards, since it's against the TOS. For ANY reason. Even if justified. It's a good way to get that obnoxious "prison bars" doohickey slapped over your avatar box for all to see.

  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    Look, I'm not saying don't be upset, disappointed, sad, even pi$$ed off. But the talk about ulterior motives and predictions that the game will shut down are just getting ridiculous.

    Dude, the fact that we have two Community Moderators trying to dismiss the idea of 'ulterior motives' by PW/Cryptic as mere "Conspiracy Theory" is in and of itself highly suspicions and means people might not be as far off. In all honesty You guys probably arn't any more privy to the Machiavellian Moustache twirling of the Cake Eaters than we are :P

    No, it just means that you're paranoid, can't accept the facts that have been presented to you, and oddly find some comfort in the idea that the developers are secretly trying to ruin your fun because it amuses them. As to what I may or may not be privy to, well, I'll let your paranoia fill in the blanks there. It will anyway despite anything I might say.
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  • boachevboachev Member Posts: 131 Arc User
    > @baddmoonrizin said:
    > Geez, seems all the conspiracy nuts and doomsayers are really showing up for this one. :smirk:

    I’m not usually one for doom saying, but the Foundry existed in part so a dedicated player base could pick up the slack creating the content Cryptic lacked the resources to make themselves.

    Cryptic now appears to lack the resources to maintain the content needed to create the content they couldn’t because they lacked the resources. There’s no positive to take away from this.
  • fred26291#2759 fred26291 Member Posts: 1,011 Arc User
    Gets Bad Moon a drink and something for the headache.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,734 Arc User
    I feel like they keep taking the things I like about this game away from me and that I'm left with this empty joyless husk. I barely play now as it is and this removes yet another thing I enjoy. I really like flying ships around and I've spent a good deal of money on this game and that has kept me here all these years while they have slowly chipped away at the content I liked, but as I said there isn't really much left anymore. This is just really disappointing...
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  • rothgarixrothgarix Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    I was upset when they took away the "Exploration" sectors...but they said the Foundry would replace it.

    Now, the Foundry is being taken out.

    Welp, fun while it lasted, peoples. Off to uninstall, and reinstall SFC3 or Bridge Commander...no you can't have my stuff.

    Probably should log in and say bye to my Fleet one last time. :(
  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    nikephorus wrote: »
    I feel like they keep taking the things I like about this game away from me and that I'm left with this empty joyless husk. I barely play now as it is and this removes yet another thing I enjoy. I really like flying ships around and I've spent a good deal of money on this game and that has kept me here all these years while they have slowly chipped away at the content I liked, but as I said there isn't really much left anymore. This is just really disappointing...

    The concept of Sink Cost is something to keep in mind when deciding to continue to spend money on a game. Along with the Time = Money. Make sure that you're getting the needed amount of fun for the invest- or bail.

    For now, STO has already reached the closed wallet point for me. I have everything in the game I want, and that won't change until they move on to something besides DSC. The loss of the Foundry just gives me yet another reason to not buy a single thing.

    For now I still enjoy flying around my Connie for free. So I'll continue that, although no promises after the Foundry is gone. I'll have to see what my gaming experience is like with that change.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 4,925 Arc User
    Look, I'm not saying don't be upset, disappointed, sad, even pi$$ed off. But the talk about ulterior motives and predictions that the game will shut down are just getting ridiculous.

    Dude, the fact that we have two Community Moderators trying to dismiss the idea of 'ulterior motives' by PW/Cryptic as mere "Conspiracy Theory" is in and of itself highly suspicions and means people might not be as far off. In all honesty You guys probably arn't any more privy to the Machiavellian Moustache twirling of the Cake Eaters than we are :P

    FYI the mods are unpaid volunteers. They aren't employees with any inside knowledge.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • aesicaaesica Member Posts: 734 Arc User
    Coding is complicated, and figuring out how someone else coded something might take months. That's why the recent issues have been so bad, the Foundry code isn't being maintained by the people who made it and the current team need to reverse-engineer it to fix it. that takes several times as long as new development does.
    If everybody said "nope, nevermind--scrap it because figuring out old code somebody else wrote is hard!" then, well CO wouldn't have the character planner it has today. :P

    I haven't played STO in any serious capacity for awhile, but I always meant to get involved in the foundry--both to play some of the missions and to try making some of my own. Now I have even less reason to get into the game again. What a shame.

    - - -

    Not that the devs will see this, but if they do, I'd like to ask them to seriously reconsider their decision to drop the foundry. Voice actors are nice and all, but I suspect they cost a fair amount. Maybe it's time to hold off on commissioning them and instead, use those funds to get the foundry back to a point where it can be maintained into the future. Removing the foundry and all of its content is akin to lobotomizing your game.

    Those steam reviews from "Mostly Positive" overall vs "Mixed" for more recent reviews is no joke. Please don't tank what was and could continue to be a decent game.
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