Look, I'm not saying don't be upset, disappointed, sad, even pi$$ed off. But the talk about ulterior motives and predictions that the game will shut down are just getting ridiculous.
Dude, the fact that we have two Community Moderators trying to dismiss the idea of 'ulterior motives' by PW/Cryptic as mere "Conspiracy Theory" is in and of itself highly suspicions and means people might not be as far off. In all honesty You guys probably arn't any more privy to the Machiavellian Moustache twirling of the Cake Eaters than we are :P
No, it just means that you're paranoid, can't accept the facts that have been presented to you, and oddly find some comfort in the idea that the developers are secretly trying to ruin your fun because it amuses them. As to what I may or may not be privy to, well, I'll let your paranoia fill in the blanks there. It will anyway despite anything I might say.
With all due respect, Bit uncalled for yeah? I don't see how you can make that judgement about my character I've rarely ever said anything here about anything. Plus I never said I agreed with the people that are claiming some ulterior motive or that they are right. My Comment was more Tongue in cheek than anything serious, I was poking fun at ridiculousness of it all, that we've got to the point we have two moderators literally having to pull a "There is nothing to see here! Move Along!" like Officer Barbrady doing his best to hide an alien abduction. and that PW seem to have engendered such inherent distrust from a swath of the community and that you guys have to do that is just sad on both counts. When it comes down to it, You guys don't know any more than we do,
For the record I don't think this is any more than what they said it is even if I do think it is catastrophically stupid. My own experience in IT tell me there is not a day goes by when an executive with a bad idea doesn't come bumbling into mission control shovelling something into his mouth.
Then I apologize for my misinterpretation of your post with regards to you personally. For those that do earnestly hold that stance regarding conspiracy theories and doomsaying, I stand by it.
Apology Accepted and that's fair. I've never been one for "doom saying". Conspiracy theories can be a good thing overall though, a little Paranoia is healthy and a healthy distrust of authority keeps them honest, for the most part. To Quote another great Sci-Fi Icon - "No one here is exactly who they appear to be. Not Molari, Not Sheridan and Not me". Though I get how frustrating it can be from your end of it. I'd love to see them release a new version of the foundry, completely rebuilt from the ground up.
So in other words play our content or get lost is what your saying. I find this very disappointing especially after you have just spotlighted a mission
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
One thing that wasnt clear on the livestream was weather these "rewards" for creating a story would only go to current published missions or to people who have ever publisished a mission.
It was asked repeatedly and he just ignored them then said had no new questions to end the feed. Also for playing a mission rewards as well. Never got a straight answer.
If you have ever authored and published a Foundry mission PRIOR to the Sunset announcement blog, then you will get that reward. That cutoff was determined so there would not be a rush to publish a mission thrown together in 5 minutes just to get the reward that Foundry authors had truly earned for their efforts.
I find this very disappointing especially after you have just spotlighted a mission
And you may see more missions spotlighted before the Foundry shuts down, as Kael wants to try and reward as many of them as he can before that happens.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
What we need is a strike. One week from 11th April, nobody login.
Oh I won't be logging in, But I also won't be logging in after that until the foundry or a new system in introduced. You take away exploration, you take away decent missions and you release 2 episodes per season/expansion. I used the Foundry for gameplay especially for my KDf character. I also was going to get a LTS well you can TRIBBLE that Cryptic as my wallet is going to stay closed. This is just another reason for me to uninstall this game as the usual droll you spill out is not worth it.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I still don't understand why what's already been done has to be removed.
I get it if it's too much work to maintain it, but does the current functionality really need to be removed? Can't they just say 'no future updates' and leave what is already there intact?
I didn't hear any mention of it in the live stream, if anyone has any insight on this issue. It seems a shame to remove all the content that is already in place.
I still don't understand why what's already been done has to be removed.
I get it if it's too much work to maintain it, but does the current functionality really need to be removed? Can't they just say 'no future updates' and leave what is already there intact?
I didn't hear any mention of it in the live stream, if anyone has any insight on this issue. It seems a shame to remove all the content that is already in place.
Because the Foundry breaks every time there's an update. Maintaining it also means fixing it when it breaks after those updates. They can no longer afford the man hours for those fixes.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
My guess would be it's just too messy. Having Foundry content remain but making no effort at all to fix anything could result in exploits, as it has in the past. Then there's the general breakage we get from any given major update that would render the content unusable. Simply put, while it's a shame to lose so much content, if they aren't going to support it anymore anyway, it just makes logical sense to remove everything to prevent a vestigial feature from causing yet more problems.
The fact that Cryptic can no longer afford to maintain the foundry does not bode well for the future of the game as a whole. If they can no longer afford the man-hours to keep the foundry running then it means that either the personnel with the expertise to maintain it have been terminated, or have quit of their own accord. Either way, this decision means that the STO development team is getting smaller and less competent, which in turn leads to fewer updates and more of those updates will be either non-functional, or will be detrimental to the gameplay experience (see the recent skin and hair texture fiasco).
This decision will affect the playerbase. To what degree and how many players are affected remains to be seen, but it also signals that the development team is not capable of keeping up with the expectations of that playerbase. You may call me a Doomposter if you wish, but losses like these tend to indicate that the game is entering it's twilight.
Sad to see it go. Without it STO and Neverwinter will just be 'another mmo' with nothing unique about them. The amount of work players have put into all those missions, rp spaces, evil dwarven cheese wheels that mentally control you, will forever be lost. Some of that stuff dates back to when the game was still young and people had hope for it.
Why? Why shoot yourself in the foot like this? The Foundry is the one reason I chose STO over every other sci-fi mmo out there, and I'm not the only, to put it mildly. What possible reason do I have to play now, other than finish the story missions then forget about the game until the next few bread crumbs come out (Oh hai Warcraft)? Just... WHY? I personally never played Neverwinter (more of a sci-fi fan myself) but the Foundry feature made both it and STO truly *unique*. Without it, it's just another mmo like SWTOR, with nothing but a shiny brand to make it stand out. The only possible reason for this I can see is if you're trying to clear server space for something else, but I honestly don't see what can possibly replace a player creativity outlet like the Foundry. If it's another grind-palooza like the endeavor system, I'm done with this game.
Imagine a tabletop RPG without the ability to create your own stories, or even a game like Minecraft without the building mechanic. Brilliant move, Cyprtic. I would have expected that kind of stupid cynicism from Activision or EA, but not from you.
I still don't understand why what's already been done has to be removed.
I get it if it's too much work to maintain it, but does the current functionality really need to be removed? Can't they just say 'no future updates' and leave what is already there intact?
I didn't hear any mention of it in the live stream, if anyone has any insight on this issue. It seems a shame to remove all the content that is already in place.
Because the Foundry breaks every time there's an update. Maintaining it also means fixing it when it breaks after those updates. They can no longer afford the man hours for those fixes.
I see.
Well, that's a shame because that's a lot of content to just have removed from the game.
In the end though, nothing any of us can really do about it I guess.
Dude, the fact that we have two Community Moderators trying to dismiss the idea of 'ulterior motives' by PW/Cryptic as mere "Conspiracy Theory" is in and of itself highly suspicions and means people might not be as far off. In all honesty You guys probably arn't any more privy to the Machiavellian Moustache twirling of the Cake Eaters than we are :P
Just saying if folks are going to try to convince me or anyone else of hidden ulterior motives they're going to need to bring some serious evidence to the table. I consider myself a realist and I've yet to see anything credible that there was an ulterior motive.
I don't really think it's a secret we chat with a few of them semi-regularly as occasionally our moderation duties may require it, or me also being a Bug Hunter requires the filing of the occasional bug report. Some of them might be good at D&D or Magic the Gathering, but they would make for terrible Poker players lols. The art of deception is not strong with them. Just saying
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
As other have stated, and the Foundry is Cryptic's in house episode builder. Then it's high time Cryptic themselves moved on from that.
Since you refer to the problem of "Legacy Code", and having no one in house that can work with it. That means the "Legacy Code" is now trash and the biggest waste of resources Cryptic has. This makes it time to start slowing down production on your games, and start production on a new game engine. You may think this is the wrong path, but it will get you away from your inability to work on the code itself, since that's the problem Cryptic keeps quoting. Especially with the Foundry and things like PvP, has been for years.
With this in mind, giving that a portion of the player base played specifically for the Foundry, i.e. you're about to lose some customers. It's time to step up your game. I'd do so in the following manner.
-Slow current production on the game
-Start production on new game engine
-Recode current game content to new game engine, including the Foundry, all built into the core of the game.
-Release STO2, with all the current available content, with easier access to the code, making for a more diverse gaming experience, i.e. you can do more custom encounters, instead of the current copy/paste ones.
This will get you away from the trash excuse of "Legacy Code." This is called solving the problem, instead of band-aid excusing it.
The only thing that you have to consider with this, is how to handle the C-store. That being, do we transfer current characters and what the players have bought over to STO2? Or, do we make them start over from scratch?
OK, to be clear, when I say can no longer afford the man hours, I mean the programmers that are required to fix the Foundry when it breaks are doing just that. For weeks. Until it gets fixed. And when I say fixed, I mean working. Not improvements. Not updates. Just functioning. During that time they are not available to work on other content: new content, bug fixes, etc.
Again, NOBODY wanted this to happen. They have been trying for over a year to keep this from happening. And during that time, they have also looked at every possible alternative to keep the content in-game. They fought the good fight on this one, folks. Never think that they didn't.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
OK, to be clear, when I say can no longer afford the man hours, I mean the programmers that are required to fix the Foundry when it breaks are doing just that. For weeks. Until it gets fixed. And when I say fixed, I mean working. Not improvements. Not updates. Just functioning. During that time they are not available to work on other content: new content, bug fixes, etc.
Again, NOBODY wanted this to happen. They have been trying for over a year to keep this from happening. And during that time, they have also looked at every possible alternative to keep the content in-game. They fought the good fight on this one, folks. Never think that they didn't.
I think your in for a long fight with this one baddmoonrizin. Despite the information being out there now thanks to the livestream.
Might a suggest potentially linking the twitch stream of the discussion with Kael. Or maybe something along the lines on one of the boards a stickied post about it. Otherwise you might need to keep repeating yourself, which I am sure will evantually wear you down.
Sort of a one edition of a FCT for the foundry. Where people asked the questions, and it has links to the response from Kael or the devs. That way, you can re-direct people so they can read all the questions and answers.
OK, to be clear, when I say can no longer afford the man hours, I mean the programmers that are required to fix the Foundry when it breaks are doing just that. For weeks. Until it gets fixed. And when I say fixed, I mean working. Not improvements. Not updates. Just functioning. During that time they are not available to work on other content: new content, bug fixes, etc.
Again, NOBODY wanted this to happen. They have been trying for over a year to keep this from happening. And during that time, they have also looked at every possible alternative to keep the content in-game. They fought the good fight on this one, folks. Never think that they didn't.
Yeah, over the last year the Foundry has been like a rusty old car that has a piece fall off every time you drive it. You can try to patch it back together if you can figure out what's wrong with it each time. But it gets worse each time, then one day you just can't make it work anymore.
Right now the Foundry is only partially functional. It's like a car that drives, but stalls if you try shifting out of first or second, also the heater is stuck on and the windows won't roll up.
**Post heavily edited due to finally seeing Kael's livestream feed, reading the highlights in the OP courtesy of BadMoon and reading the comments of wiser heads than mine. Oh, and to correct some really appalling typos..**
Joni Mitchell sang it best - "don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got til it's gone".
I admit I haven't properly played the Foundry content in quite some time, but on reading the news item about the 'sunsetting' of the Foundry I loaded up the spotlight mission last night that Kael had highlighted a couple of days back - AEI : In Silence. I wish I had come back to it sooner, as what I got in return was a nice change of pace from the regular "we come in peace, shoot to kill" of STO content and the grind of the DOFF, Admiralty, Reputation and Endeavor systems.
While I can resist the temptation to clang the DOOM! gong or slip on a tin foil hat to offer up a dark conspiracy theory, I have now watched the livestream feed from Kael, read the post of others such as Jonsills, reminded myself about the downtime on the foundry not so long ago (what was it..a couple of months offline?) and read some of the comments on the foundry itself about bugs affecting play. I have to acknowledge that it may well have been an inevitable decision to close the foundry, but I also see it was a can that has been kicked further and further down the road almost since the game's inception.
In all of this though it is the content authors like Matt I feel really sorry for. They clearly threw their hearts and souls into creating content, learned to live with the bugs and the faults and are now understandably upset and angry by it's imminent loss. So while there is a bit of time before April 11th I'm going to ease back on the grinding and spend some of the next few weeks acknowledging their efforts. I'm going to explore. I'm going to find more of the AEI's. I'm going to replay Purity (cannot for the life of me remember when I played that last, or even if I finished it). I'm going to run through the Mirror Wars for the first (and now last) time and whatever else gets my attention.
Hell, I might even load up Admiral Bobo Goes To War...
Maybe everyone gets something to make up for the loss (symbolically)?
I'd say maybe give us the choice of getting a globally-unlocked ship trait of our choice? That would be really nice and consistent, since it would benefit both newbies as well as vets who have plenty of ships.
This would be a lucrative reward, unless it's too much spaghetti code.
Maybe everyone gets something to make up for the loss (symbolically)?
I'd say maybe give us the choice of getting a globally-unlocked ship trait of our choice? That would be really nice and consistent, since it would benefit both newbies as well as vets who have plenty of ships.
This would be a lucrative reward, unless it's too much spaghetti code.
They're already giving out rewards.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Comments
Apology Accepted and that's fair. I've never been one for "doom saying". Conspiracy theories can be a good thing overall though, a little Paranoia is healthy and a healthy distrust of authority keeps them honest, for the most part. To Quote another great Sci-Fi Icon - "No one here is exactly who they appear to be. Not Molari, Not Sheridan and Not me". Though I get how frustrating it can be from your end of it. I'd love to see them release a new version of the foundry, completely rebuilt from the ground up.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If I whip up a quick Foundry Mission this week, do I get a Botany Bay?
If you have ever authored and published a Foundry mission PRIOR to the Sunset announcement blog, then you will get that reward. That cutoff was determined so there would not be a rush to publish a mission thrown together in 5 minutes just to get the reward that Foundry authors had truly earned for their efforts.
And you may see more missions spotlighted before the Foundry shuts down, as Kael wants to try and reward as many of them as he can before that happens.
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Oh I won't be logging in, But I also won't be logging in after that until the foundry or a new system in introduced. You take away exploration, you take away decent missions and you release 2 episodes per season/expansion. I used the Foundry for gameplay especially for my KDf character. I also was going to get a LTS well you can TRIBBLE that Cryptic as my wallet is going to stay closed. This is just another reason for me to uninstall this game as the usual droll you spill out is not worth it.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I get it if it's too much work to maintain it, but does the current functionality really need to be removed? Can't they just say 'no future updates' and leave what is already there intact?
I didn't hear any mention of it in the live stream, if anyone has any insight on this issue. It seems a shame to remove all the content that is already in place.
Because the Foundry breaks every time there's an update. Maintaining it also means fixing it when it breaks after those updates. They can no longer afford the man hours for those fixes.
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And again......This!!!
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
This decision will affect the playerbase. To what degree and how many players are affected remains to be seen, but it also signals that the development team is not capable of keeping up with the expectations of that playerbase. You may call me a Doomposter if you wish, but losses like these tend to indicate that the game is entering it's twilight.
I have to agree with you sir. Think I will keep my money in my wallet from now on. Tsk Tsk on you cryptic...fer shame on you!
Imagine a tabletop RPG without the ability to create your own stories, or even a game like Minecraft without the building mechanic. Brilliant move, Cyprtic. I would have expected that kind of stupid cynicism from Activision or EA, but not from you.
I see.
Well, that's a shame because that's a lot of content to just have removed from the game.
In the end though, nothing any of us can really do about it I guess.
Just saying if folks are going to try to convince me or anyone else of hidden ulterior motives they're going to need to bring some serious evidence to the table. I consider myself a realist and I've yet to see anything credible that there was an ulterior motive.
I don't really think it's a secret we chat with a few of them semi-regularly as occasionally our moderation duties may require it, or me also being a Bug Hunter requires the filing of the occasional bug report. Some of them might be good at D&D or Magic the Gathering, but they would make for terrible Poker players lols. The art of deception is not strong with them. Just saying
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Since you refer to the problem of "Legacy Code", and having no one in house that can work with it. That means the "Legacy Code" is now trash and the biggest waste of resources Cryptic has. This makes it time to start slowing down production on your games, and start production on a new game engine. You may think this is the wrong path, but it will get you away from your inability to work on the code itself, since that's the problem Cryptic keeps quoting. Especially with the Foundry and things like PvP, has been for years.
With this in mind, giving that a portion of the player base played specifically for the Foundry, i.e. you're about to lose some customers. It's time to step up your game. I'd do so in the following manner.
-Slow current production on the game
-Start production on new game engine
-Recode current game content to new game engine, including the Foundry, all built into the core of the game.
-Release STO2, with all the current available content, with easier access to the code, making for a more diverse gaming experience, i.e. you can do more custom encounters, instead of the current copy/paste ones.
This will get you away from the trash excuse of "Legacy Code." This is called solving the problem, instead of band-aid excusing it.
The only thing that you have to consider with this, is how to handle the C-store. That being, do we transfer current characters and what the players have bought over to STO2? Or, do we make them start over from scratch?
Again, NOBODY wanted this to happen. They have been trying for over a year to keep this from happening. And during that time, they have also looked at every possible alternative to keep the content in-game. They fought the good fight on this one, folks. Never think that they didn't.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
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I think your in for a long fight with this one baddmoonrizin. Despite the information being out there now thanks to the livestream.
Might a suggest potentially linking the twitch stream of the discussion with Kael. Or maybe something along the lines on one of the boards a stickied post about it. Otherwise you might need to keep repeating yourself, which I am sure will evantually wear you down.
Sort of a one edition of a FCT for the foundry. Where people asked the questions, and it has links to the response from Kael or the devs. That way, you can re-direct people so they can read all the questions and answers.
Right now the Foundry is only partially functional. It's like a car that drives, but stalls if you try shifting out of first or second, also the heater is stuck on and the windows won't roll up.
My character Tsin'xing
Joni Mitchell sang it best - "don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got til it's gone".
I admit I haven't properly played the Foundry content in quite some time, but on reading the news item about the 'sunsetting' of the Foundry I loaded up the spotlight mission last night that Kael had highlighted a couple of days back - AEI : In Silence. I wish I had come back to it sooner, as what I got in return was a nice change of pace from the regular "we come in peace, shoot to kill" of STO content and the grind of the DOFF, Admiralty, Reputation and Endeavor systems.
While I can resist the temptation to clang the DOOM! gong or slip on a tin foil hat to offer up a dark conspiracy theory, I have now watched the livestream feed from Kael, read the post of others such as Jonsills, reminded myself about the downtime on the foundry not so long ago (what was it..a couple of months offline?) and read some of the comments on the foundry itself about bugs affecting play. I have to acknowledge that it may well have been an inevitable decision to close the foundry, but I also see it was a can that has been kicked further and further down the road almost since the game's inception.
In all of this though it is the content authors like Matt I feel really sorry for. They clearly threw their hearts and souls into creating content, learned to live with the bugs and the faults and are now understandably upset and angry by it's imminent loss. So while there is a bit of time before April 11th I'm going to ease back on the grinding and spend some of the next few weeks acknowledging their efforts. I'm going to explore. I'm going to find more of the AEI's. I'm going to replay Purity (cannot for the life of me remember when I played that last, or even if I finished it). I'm going to run through the Mirror Wars for the first (and now last) time and whatever else gets my attention.
Hell, I might even load up Admiral Bobo Goes To War...
Maybe everyone gets something to make up for the loss (symbolically)?
I'd say maybe give us the choice of getting a globally-unlocked ship trait of our choice? That would be really nice and consistent, since it would benefit both newbies as well as vets who have plenty of ships.
This would be a lucrative reward, unless it's too much spaghetti code.
They're already giving out rewards.
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