I hope the fact that the Fed Boff is wearing one means we'll be getting the away team/tactical vest added to the DSC uniforms (and the mirror DSC uniforms too).
And yeah Mirror versions of these ships would be nice too thanks
"As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives.
This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Victory is Life!"
We're announcing today that this bundle will be available at 30% off at launch, for a limited time. That's a reduced price of 8400 Zen. Enjoy, Captains!
That's great and a good gesture but again the once per account BOFFs and pet is ridiculous and you know it is.
I agree with everyone else. The value of this pack is awful and the fact that so much of it is once per account just seals the deal for me. No thank you. When they release I will buy the Gagarin, because the artist have done extremely well on making this ship look beautiful, but no way in hell will I be buying this pack as it stands, even with your 30% off nonsense. I feel for my fellow captains who want a T6 Nova etc. and Romulan ships because they keep getting shut down (and when we said we wanted a T6 vulcan ship, a TRIBBLE one was not what we were going for...). After I buy the Gagarin I will most definately not even think of buying this bundle, till next time I guess.
We're announcing today that this bundle will be available at 30% off at launch, for a limited time. That's a reduced price of 8400 Zen. Enjoy, Captains!
Oh, you mean it'll be on sale at release LIKE EVERY OTHER EXPANSION BUNDLE?
This does absolutely nothing to fix any of the problems people have with this. The base price is still garbage, so once the initial sale is over it'll go back to being complete garbage again, not to mention you haven't addressed the problem of nearly all the items in the pack being restricted for no good reason.
Please don't get fooled by this, people. This isn't them addressing the problem, this is them showing us the price will be different without changing the REAL price. Do not forget the shady business with the Elite Services Starter. This kind of behaviour is not okay.
It is a "we have less customers so let us raise the prices mentality"
Except, according to Crytpic, 2018 was STO's 2nd best year in terms of tings like people playing.
They have a FAR LARGER customers base ever since they went to consoles.
I have no doubt that Cryptic managed to expand STO in the way of consoles therefore some revenue but I've heard that is a mixed bag of pros & cons there too from players. For pc metrics though I don't think STO has grown much. So if the pc & the console player bases don't share game play, do we, it probably shouldn't be counted in the same metric but then again I only play pc so I'm ignorant of the console version. If it is shared still counting it all as the same player base then isn't very accurate as it could be.
Anyhoo.... M'Chla Pilot Bird of Prey.....
Can we get a better picture of this ship, different angles...
It is too dang small for me to get a good look at it in the game.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Anyhoo.... M'Chla Pilot Bird of Prey.....
Can we get a better picture of this ship, different angles...
It is too dang small for me to get a good look at it in the game.
I'm sure more detailed angles still & live will be getting released soon of all 4 ships.
Well...There's a phrase I remember, regarding "first impressions." After seeing the inferno on reddit, and here, I don't think this announcement has made a good first impression. It looks like the 30% discount damage control announcement is going over like a Nurgle-blessed veggie omelet MRE bowel movement in a hive city. So little acquisition for so much cost.
What's left of my heart goes out to the Romulan players, to @reyan01 for holding onto that bitter tasting emotion of hope for longer than they should. There was a good opportunity to see a T6 Ha'nom and T6 Nova release for an anniversary mega bundle, alongside maybe a T6 Hegh'ta/Norgh/Ki'Tang, and something for the JH(who still have no veteran ship to call their own). When the destroyer pack last year came out, there was opportunity to possibly throw in a T6 Ha'feh for the mix.
I wonder if this is what the Alliance is coming to. Maybe doing away with warbirds and singularity tech. Stuffing the Romulans into Fed and KDF ships. Has to be what the "Hold Torch" emote is for while the embargo continues.
And I wonder if this is what the team at Cryptic is moving towards, with bundle packs.
Excellent point, this would've been a great time to release all or 1 or some of those ships you mentioned at a T6/T6U level. I do wonder though if Cryptic is a bit entrenched in this Discovery theme though just by them coasting or by hook or crook with CBS dictating a direction.
Why the change from account wide unlocks to once per account. That is a large change from most if not all of the prior packs like this. Least with the tardigrade and the bridge officers.
They have been doing single use items in packs for a long time.
My question is for those of use who purchased the starter pack, do we get a discount since the starter pack is included in this pack. Normally when they do these they release both options at the same time.
Wow, what a disappointment. I was looking forward to a new pack and have been saving my zen, but this is a terrible value.
Single character unlocks and only 4 ships that still require upgrades to Fleet versions (and purchase of ship slots since they can't be reclaimed) isn't worth 12,000 zen.
Some cool looking stuff, but I will wait for a 50% off flash sale or just take a pass on this one.
Single character unlocks are in other packs. This isn't new.
The wait continues for more Romulan ships (particularly science warbirds), T6 re-designs of some of their existing awesome T5 Cryptic models, like the Dysons, Vo'quv, original birds of prey, and ridiculously (!) overdue canon ship: Nova/Rhode Island with proper updated model and T6 variant.
Also hope Disco gets cancelled before Romulans show up: don't want to see them get the Klingon treatment and subsequent ugly models ported into STO when Cryptic artists are often exceptional at making in-house designs.
Also that "once per account" thing is really not honoring the player base who spend real cash on playing multiple characters and factions.
I like those ships.. but i'll get them individually… in one podcast they promised they would start looking at playes as account, not character, so things would be claimable by account… by far… they are not keepeng their word on that.. i dont like "once per account" things… not while i'm paying almost $120
Trying going to Neverwinter, where all the new packs are once per character and no longer account unlocks.
Single Character unlocks have been in Packs before, BUT THOSE ARE XP BOOSTS, R&D STUFF and the like. NOT Boffs or Pets.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Will people who already own the Discovery starter pack get a discount on this pack (like with the Gamma Vanguard pack)? I'm already not thrilled about the price of this bundle, only four ships (only one of which I have any interest in) and the boffs aren't account unlocks like every previous c-store boff, so that's kind of a deal breaker for me.
Also, are the combat vest and armor costumes exclusive to the bundle too or can those be bought separately?
I love the ship skin for the Walker (which I'm assuming also unlocks on the lobi store version), but I'm pretty sad it's exclusive to the bundle.
I'm excited to play the Shepard class, and I'm totally getting that Tartigrade combat pet, but right now I'm leaning more toward buying them separately.
Because star trek discovery has not yet shown the romulans. so till they do the dont know what they will look like. i have watched all eps of star trek discoovery to date.
And you seem to be under the mistaken impression I care what the hell shows up in that dumpster fire of stupid. They did not have to release a pack related to that excrement of a show now. They could have released a standard all faction mega pack. But no...they release this PoS offering that is probably the worst deal ever in the hopes that the essteedee kiddies have more money than brains. And this is the third pack in a row now that has ignored Romulans entirely. Well fifth if you include the ViL and AoD expansion packs...but honestly those you expect to exclude things so I really don't. But honestly the lack of ships for even the new dominion faction ships at this point is becoming an issue as well. Hell we can't even be bothered to be given a fraking TITLE.
While we disagree on our opinion of Discovery, I do agree that using this as an excuse to just stop supporting the Romulan Faction is unacceptable. There is absolutely no reason why they can't just release a new Romulan pack that's just completely separate from Discovery.. none.
Release your Discovery Pack.. cool. Then ALSO release a totally separate pack for Romulans and Jem'Hadar for those that want that content. Just because the current story line takes place in the Age of Discovery, that in no way means that new ships can't be released for sale in the 'current' time line. They specifically told players they weren't going to abandon the Romulan Faction.. and then they completely abandoned the Romulan Faction.
And people wonder why no one believes anything Cryptic tells us anymore.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Other than a hiatus that I took when I had some health issues, I have been around since just after beta, most of it on a lifetime membership. And this is not only the first time that I haven't purchased one of these; but the first time that I haven't even considered it. Personally I have watched and continue to watch Discovery, and although not perfect; I still hope. So it isn't anything that I have against the show.
In fact, I have even made my Discovery toon my second Main. In fact, I play this toon more than any of my other toons (even my old main) and I have both the Science Spearhead and the Lobi Walker on this toon. And I will probably buy some of the individual items that are in this pack when they go up. But I will not even pay the entry point of this pack until the following happen;
1) Some sort of loyalty is shown on the part of Cryptic - I was an early adopter of the Discovery season and bought the Discovery starter pack on day one. But why are we being forced to pay for it again? If things are so bad that you have to charge us a second time for something that we previously purchased? Not a way to instill loyalty and good will. Also it is a way for what good will there is to evaporate.
2) Antithetical to current direction - It has seemingly been that over time, STO would has been moving away bound to character items. Heck, even in the special events, rewards have migrated from once per character, to once per account. But when we are paying with REAL MONEY, that seems to go out the window.
Since I started playing I have had to retire due to injury and breathing difficulties, while it does mean that I can play more, it also means that even at the reduced price, it is two or three months of saving of money to buy this pack this time. To get the Dominion pack, I even reduced my dosage on some of my meds to be able to buy it a month earlier than I would have otherwise. But Cryptic has decided that it needs to nickle and dime us. I hope that they do remember that this all comes at a price, as both EA and Besthesda have seen this year, customer good will is hard to credit, easily spent, and once in deficit may never be rebuilt.
There's two things I don't usually do in regards to STO:
1) Buy these big packs (though I spend lots of money on the game, the packs don't usually appeal enough to spend over $100 on 'em).
2) Post in these forums.
So when I saw this pack, I expected to be uninterested. Then I saw some of the cool things it had, and immediately became quite interested, to the point I was going to buy it. Then I dug into the details and saw that in addition to having less ships than usual (which I could live with), it ALSO has a bunch of once per account things, including the BOFFS??? Really? I get that the keys and xp boost are once per account. They usually are, and they could/would be easily abused if they weren't. But the BOFFS?
This caused me to log in to these forums just to state that I am highly disappointed, and shall not be buying this pack.
Whatever drugs the folk(s) who made the once-per-account decision are on...well, ya might want to tell them to cut back a bit.
Last night, I posted that the sale was generous. And it is, I mean 30% off is a large discount.
However, I was in a rush and looking back on that comment, it may have seemed like I was fine with this pack at 8400 zen if they made the BOff's and combat pet account unlocks instead of once for a single character. That is not the case. The value of this pack is sorely lacking in my eyes.
At best, 5 ships if you don't already own the Discovery Starter Pack, one of them not meant for endgame and only 2 for Fed and 2 for KDF, no cross faction ships. Sorry Roms and Jems. Though I guess Roms and Jems should be able to at least fly their Allies ships. But no confirmation on that so far. Let's say they relent and allow the BOff's and combat pet to be account wide. There are also 2 apparently full uniforms, 1 for Fed, 1 for KDF along with a Federation 'head' costume unlock. Lastly are some Upgrade kits, some XP boosts and 10 Master Keys. All for 12k Zen off sale. (There may be a discount for those who already own the Discovery Starter Pack, but none has been mentioned.)
Looking at the other non-Starter packs at their normal price we have the Romulan (15k Zen), Delta (15k Zen), Temporal (13k Zen) and Gamma (13k Zen).
Looking back now, it would seem that the Romulan pack, at least in this age of T6 ships, may be slightly overpriced. But then you see what you get and there are 9 ships (Romulan only), 5 meant for endgame and 4 others not. Also included is a BOff that is account wide (Romulans only), a playable small ship/fighter/shuttle (Romulan only), a species unlock, a pack of 3 Duty Officers that is account wide (Romulans only), 2 Romulan only uniforms and 30 master keys.
Next up is the Delta pack with 9 total endgame ships. No crossfaction ships, so 5 Fed, 2 Romulan and 2 KDF. There are 2 account wide uniform unlocks with no restrictions. We also get 3 BOffs and 3 DOffs that are per character. Last but not least are 3 Ship Upgrade Tokens (takes certain T5 ships to T5-U, allowing them to be endgame worthy) and 3 Upgrade kits.
Moving on to the Temporal pack and here we have 12 total ships, with at least 7 of them being meant for endgame*. There is an account wide EV suit (Fed only) and 6 uniforms (Fed only), plus an account wide BOff (Fed only). There are 6 Temporal Operative Specialization Qualifications and 3 Upgrade kits as well.
Last but not least we have the Gamma pack with 10 cross faction, endgame ready ships along with 2 species unlocks that allow play on either Fed or KDF side. One account wide uniform and an account wide EV suit. Closing out the pack are 3 account wide BOff's, 2 large XP boosts and 3 upgrade kits.
Older packs seem to have much more value to them than this new pack, So, let's only compare the things that will likely matter the most to players; ships, additional personnel, uniforms and additional lower value items. Then see where *I* rank them. Titles hold ZERO value to me, so I won't even acknowledge them.
This one is tough to judge. If we go by total, it would be Temporal wining. But, you have to look at all sides and KDF/Roms/Jems only get access to 3 of the ships. (Unless some of those ships are in the list that Roms and Jems can fly, then that would make it better for them, obviously. But KDF are left out here.) Despite the Romulan pack ships being Rom restricted, there are simply more of them. The 5 endgame ships will require upgrade tokens to make them truly endgame worthy, but even then they get the edge. They also get a small craft so that is always usable, though may not be as useful.
Additional personnel - This will include BOff's, DOff's combat pets and unlocked species.
Tough to call on this one, but I put Gamma first due to the 2 species unlocks. Just barely though. I put Romulan ahead of Temporal in this instance because while both Romulan and Temporal Bundles have a restricted BOff, the Romulan pack also offers the pack of 3 DOff's.
Uniforms - I will include the EV suits in this section as they can be worn as a visual.
Another difficult one to rank this, and this is just my opinion, but with the Delta uniforms being cross faction, they get the nod simply because they are open to everyone. Temporal obviously has more uniforms, but they are restricted to Fed only. It's the sheer number that kept it ahead of the Gamma pack this time, though the EV suit in the Gamma pack is account wide and not faction restricted like the Temporal EV suit. And I'll probably get some hate for it, but while the Discovery Uniforms only really contain 1 uni for Fed (plus a new head detail) and 1 uni for KDF, I think the fact it has broader reach than the 2 Romulan uniforms gives it a slight edge.
Other items - This would be the XP boosts, the upgrade tokens and keys.
With the #4 and #5 spots, this gets kind of confusing, so it's a tie. I'd like to put the Discovery pack at #4 if the player doesn't own the Discovery Starter pack already simply due to the items that would come with the starter pack. An additional XP boost and the extra Inventory slots, that are unfortunately locked to the character who purchases it, are not bad. And then the non-combat pet and scaling weapons are decent for alts who are still leveling. With only keys in the Romulan pack, even though it is 30 keys, there's just not enough 'extra' to give it an edge. But, that's also 20 extra chances at getting a big ticket item, and at the very least 80 Lobi. Hmm... yeah, tie.
I'd have to say the best value pack we've gotten so far is the Gamma Pack. The number of items is just immense, especially compared to the upcoming Discovery pack. For 1k more Zen you get 6 additional ships that also happen to be CROSS FACTION. Just for that alone, it makes it more worth the money.
I'm willing to bet more will be added to the new Discovery pack. Maybe 1 or more ships, hopefully for both factions and not just Fed. I can see them "allowing" the BOff's and combat pet to be unlocked account wide.
Who knows what else they may add, if anything, but even if they add 2 more ships for BOTH Fed and KDF, it's still not worth 12k Zen to me. A price STARTING at 10k Zen with the above listed additions would seem fair, then that 30% sale would put it at 7k Zen, which would be a price I could see myself going for.
With the pack as it stands now though, BUT with the BOff's and combat pet being account unlocks, (this is a deal breaker, no matter the cost) a starting price at 7500 zen would be about right. With 30% off of that at launch (5250 Zen), again, I think I would buy.
I can see them allowing the BOff's/combat pet to be account wide, but not lowering the price. No sale for me.
I can see them adding to the pack but keeping the BOff's/combat pet 1 per account and the price the same. No sale for me.
I can see them adding to the pack, allowing the BOff's/combat pet to be account wide but keeping the price. Unless the added stuff is a huge amount, no sale for me.
tl;dr
Add additional items to the pack to give it a greater value. Allow the BOff's and combat pet to be unlocked account wide. Add at least 1 more ship to both Fed and KDF. Or, at the very least, lower the starting price of the pack.
As it is now, not even with someone else's money would I buy this pack as it will just encourage this type of thing in the future.
*An argument could be made that the Ranger could be meant for endgame, but with it lacking the ability to be upgraded to T5-U, *I* don't consider it as an endgame ship. But that is a different argument for another place and time.
Hello. My name is iamynaught and I am an altaholic.
Oh look no Romulan stuff again. Yehaaw.. not that this pack is a good value anyway but maybe bought on their own.
As for the "there's no Romulans in Disc so of course not in STO Disc!" Really? I don't recall seeing the Ranger, Gemini or Perseus in TOS but we have those. I don't recall the Venture class, the Arbiter battlecruiser, infact any federation battlecruisers, direct me to an episode with the armitage heavy escort carrier please. What about that awesome episode with USS Scott miracle worker cruiser? hm? What about all those new Cardassian ships or Jem'Hadar ships?
Oh? you mean.. they all don't exist? but since we're doing a discovery themed bit here we can't do up some Romulan ships? riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight cuse this is where the buck stops on made up ships! Gotcha..
Because star trek discovery has not yet shown the romulans. so till they do the dont know what they will look like. i have watched all eps of star trek discoovery to date.
And you seem to be under the mistaken impression I care what the hell shows up in that dumpster fire of stupid. They did not have to release a pack related to that excrement of a show now. They could have released a standard all faction mega pack. But no...they release this PoS offering that is probably the worst deal ever in the hopes that the essteedee kiddies have more money than brains. And this is the third pack in a row now that has ignored Romulans entirely. Well fifth if you include the ViL and AoD expansion packs...but honestly those you expect to exclude things so I really don't. But honestly the lack of ships for even the new dominion faction ships at this point is becoming an issue as well. Hell we can't even be bothered to be given a fraking TITLE.
While we disagree on our opinion of Discovery, I do agree that using this as an excuse to just stop supporting the Romulan Faction is unacceptable. There is absolutely no reason why they can't just release a new Romulan pack that's just completely separate from Discovery.. none.
Release your Discovery Pack.. cool. Then ALSO release a totally separate pack for Romulans and Jem'Hadar for those that want that content. Just because the current story line takes place in the Age of Discovery, that in no way means that new ships can't be released for sale in the 'current' time line. They specifically told players they weren't going to abandon the Romulan Faction.. and then they completely abandoned the Romulan Faction.
And people wonder why no one believes anything Cryptic tells us anymore.
Or this.. nothing stops them from releasing current timeline Rom ships if there's some sorta CBS saying no Rom discovery stuff!
I'm not a huge fan of TRIBBLE. I like the addition of the ships, but I agree with a lot of the others who have posted, this pack seems a little anemic for the price point. I will be happy simply spending EC for fleet modules to get the fleet ships.
Checked every site on social network for STO and all of them show a consensus; STO screwed this deal up... ROYALY. A slam-dunk sale is now a car slamming into a concrete wall... a disaster.
Now if they had put the Walker, Spearhead, Nimitz, and the two Klingon Discovery Ships in here with Boff/Pet Unlocks, then we are talking a Pack like the others. They just couldn't control themselves from making the main Discovery Ships Lockbox/Lobi.
Didn't they say this wasn't an Expansion. Three Phases, two Lockboxes and now a Pack sure quacks like one.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My only request is the inclusion of a Klingon disruptor rifle and a Klingon disruptor pistol for the discovery timeline. account wide unlock like the phaser rifle and pistol.
Oh look no Romulan stuff again. Yehaaw.. not that this pack is a good value anyway but maybe bought on their own.
As for the "there's no Romulans in Disc so of course not in STO Disc!" Really? I don't recall seeing the Ranger, Gemini or Perseus in TOS but we have those. I don't recall the Venture class, the Arbiter battlecruiser, infact any federation battlecruisers, direct me to an episode with the armitage heavy escort carrier please. What about that awesome episode with USS Scott miracle worker cruiser? hm? What about all those new Cardassian ships or Jem'Hadar ships?
Oh? you mean.. they all don't exist? but since we're doing a discovery themed bit here we can't do up some Romulan ships? riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight cuse this is where the buck stops on made up ships! Gotcha..
The difference with your examples is that there was stuff to go on when creating those ships.
- Ranger, Perseus, Gemini: These ships were created based on the TOS style that we already knew about.
- Arbiter: The Avenger and Arbiter were based off of Klingon battlecruisers and influenced by Starfleet ship designs. They were introduced at a time that the Klingon Empire was still for the most part a frenemy.
- Armitage Heavy Escort Carrier: Come on now, this ship was designed after the Akira. Once again it's a derived ship design.
- Miracle worker Cruisers: I know they are not canon, but they do derive from existing Starfleet. Klingon & Romulan designs.
- Cardassian ships: Yes, these ships were designed by cryptic, but once again, they do derive from existing Cardassian designs.
- Jem'hadar ships: It was stated that the ships were pretty much utilized by Odo's attachment of Jem'hadar, and were not the standard for the entire fleet. Given that most of the Dominion stands in a weakened state now, these ships are gonna be more of the standard for the fleet moving forward. To me though, there are hints of the old Dominion ship design in them, as they're derived from those ships.
Everything mentioned had some sort of derivation from either canon or established standards. As there is no established standard for Romulan ships in the 23rd century within Discovery (the only Romulan ship known from the era canonically doesn't appear for another 9-10 years), they cannot bring anything out. Sure, if they wanted to, they could do 2410 ships, but they probably won't get the kind of customization options that the Discovery Klingon and Starfleet ships get (access to Discovery era skins in addition to existing skin options).
Because star trek discovery has not yet shown the romulans. so till they do the dont know what they will look like. i have watched all eps of star trek discoovery to date.
And you seem to be under the mistaken impression I care what the hell shows up in that dumpster fire of stupid. They did not have to release a pack related to that excrement of a show now. They could have released a standard all faction mega pack. But no...they release this PoS offering that is probably the worst deal ever in the hopes that the essteedee kiddies have more money than brains. And this is the third pack in a row now that has ignored Romulans entirely. Well fifth if you include the ViL and AoD expansion packs...but honestly those you expect to exclude things so I really don't. But honestly the lack of ships for even the new dominion faction ships at this point is becoming an issue as well. Hell we can't even be bothered to be given a fraking TITLE.
While we disagree on our opinion of Discovery, I do agree that using this as an excuse to just stop supporting the Romulan Faction is unacceptable. There is absolutely no reason why they can't just release a new Romulan pack that's just completely separate from Discovery.. none.
Release your Discovery Pack.. cool. Then ALSO release a totally separate pack for Romulans and Jem'Hadar for those that want that content. Just because the current story line takes place in the Age of Discovery, that in no way means that new ships can't be released for sale in the 'current' time line. They specifically told players they weren't going to abandon the Romulan Faction.. and then they completely abandoned the Romulan Faction.
And people wonder why no one believes anything Cryptic tells us anymore.
Or this.. nothing stops them from releasing current timeline Rom ships if there's some sorta CBS saying no Rom discovery stuff!
I honestly think what stops them from doing it is that they simply do not want to just make a Romulan only set of ships, since creatively, they may not know what more they can do that doesn't already exist. There's nothing left from the C-store besides the Dyson Science Destroyer Warbirds to bring up to T6.
I'm not a huge fan of TRIBBLE.. I like the addition of the ships, but I agree with a lot of the others who have posted, this pack seems a little anemic for the price point. I will be happy simply spending EC for fleet modules to get the fleet ships.
Or depending upon what your state of Reputations tiers are just use the T6 Reputations fleet ship module option to purchase them too, just another option, & "anemic' is a great description for this pack compared to the previous packs.
Now if they had put the Walker, Spearhead, Nimitz, and the two Klingon Discovery Ships in here with Boff/Pet Unlocks, then we are talking a Pack like the others. They just couldn't control themselves from making the main Discovery Ships Lockbox/Lobi.
Didn't they say this wasn't an Expansion. Three Phases, two Lockboxes and now a Pack sure quacks like one.
Except the Walker & the Spearhead are lobi store (for the T6) & lock box ships, respectively. Unlike the Walker, the Crossfield Spearhead could not be made as a leveling ship because CBS wouldn't allow it, stating that the Glenn and the Discovery are the only 2 ships of the class as far as we know in 2256.
The Nimitz/Europa would be a good ship to add to the pack as its ship that fits in with Discovery. I have a feeling through that the Gagarin and the Shran might be T6, level 50 required ships, but I could be wrong since even the T'pau when introduced was given the [T6] moniker too, but was a full leveling ship, so we could have the Gagarin, Shran, M'Chla and Qugh ships possibly all as leveling ships.
Now, moving on to this whole Expansion debacle, technically, it still isn't an expansion in the way that expansions have been handled in the past. Legacy of Romulus, Delta Rising, Agents of Yesterday and Victory is Life were all things that had prior development time to work on, and had a large content drop all at once.
They stated that when Age of Discovery's content drops are finally over, it'll feel like an expansion with how much content that will have been introduced. We are only in Phase 2 of the content right now, and possibly there could me another phase we don't even know about yet. We only know so far what's happening up to May, which is the month that phase 3 is supposed to be released.
How nice of them to tell us the Discovery Starter Pack would be included in a larger bundle before we bought it. [/sarc]
And I have to agree, 4 ships seems very lean for a pack like this. Especially if you even need to buy Fleet versions to get their full stats. Compare to the Gamma pack last year, which had 10 ships fully-powered from the box. And account-unlock boffs and stuff, too.
Comments
And yeah Mirror versions of these ships would be nice too thanks
This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Victory is Life!"
That's great and a good gesture but again the once per account BOFFs and pet is ridiculous and you know it is.
Oh, you mean it'll be on sale at release LIKE EVERY OTHER EXPANSION BUNDLE?
This does absolutely nothing to fix any of the problems people have with this. The base price is still garbage, so once the initial sale is over it'll go back to being complete garbage again, not to mention you haven't addressed the problem of nearly all the items in the pack being restricted for no good reason.
Please don't get fooled by this, people. This isn't them addressing the problem, this is them showing us the price will be different without changing the REAL price. Do not forget the shady business with the Elite Services Starter. This kind of behaviour is not okay.
I have no doubt that Cryptic managed to expand STO in the way of consoles therefore some revenue but I've heard that is a mixed bag of pros & cons there too from players. For pc metrics though I don't think STO has grown much. So if the pc & the console player bases don't share game play, do we, it probably shouldn't be counted in the same metric but then again I only play pc so I'm ignorant of the console version. If it is shared still counting it all as the same player base then isn't very accurate as it could be.
Can we get a better picture of this ship, different angles...
It is too dang small for me to get a good look at it in the game.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I'm sure more detailed angles still & live will be getting released soon of all 4 ships.
Excellent point, this would've been a great time to release all or 1 or some of those ships you mentioned at a T6/T6U level. I do wonder though if Cryptic is a bit entrenched in this Discovery theme though just by them coasting or by hook or crook with CBS dictating a direction.
They have been doing single use items in packs for a long time.
My question is for those of use who purchased the starter pack, do we get a discount since the starter pack is included in this pack. Normally when they do these they release both options at the same time.
Single character unlocks are in other packs. This isn't new.
Also hope Disco gets cancelled before Romulans show up: don't want to see them get the Klingon treatment and subsequent ugly models ported into STO when Cryptic artists are often exceptional at making in-house designs.
Also that "once per account" thing is really not honoring the player base who spend real cash on playing multiple characters and factions.
Trying going to Neverwinter, where all the new packs are once per character and no longer account unlocks.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Also, are the combat vest and armor costumes exclusive to the bundle too or can those be bought separately?
I love the ship skin for the Walker (which I'm assuming also unlocks on the lobi store version), but I'm pretty sad it's exclusive to the bundle.
I'm excited to play the Shepard class, and I'm totally getting that Tartigrade combat pet, but right now I'm leaning more toward buying them separately.
While we disagree on our opinion of Discovery, I do agree that using this as an excuse to just stop supporting the Romulan Faction is unacceptable. There is absolutely no reason why they can't just release a new Romulan pack that's just completely separate from Discovery.. none.
Release your Discovery Pack.. cool. Then ALSO release a totally separate pack for Romulans and Jem'Hadar for those that want that content. Just because the current story line takes place in the Age of Discovery, that in no way means that new ships can't be released for sale in the 'current' time line. They specifically told players they weren't going to abandon the Romulan Faction.. and then they completely abandoned the Romulan Faction.
And people wonder why no one believes anything Cryptic tells us anymore.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I like that it's cross factional, but the Boffs and tardigrade being once per account is hopefully a type-o, because quite frankly that's absurd.
Not interested.
In fact, I have even made my Discovery toon my second Main. In fact, I play this toon more than any of my other toons (even my old main) and I have both the Science Spearhead and the Lobi Walker on this toon. And I will probably buy some of the individual items that are in this pack when they go up. But I will not even pay the entry point of this pack until the following happen;
1) Some sort of loyalty is shown on the part of Cryptic - I was an early adopter of the Discovery season and bought the Discovery starter pack on day one. But why are we being forced to pay for it again? If things are so bad that you have to charge us a second time for something that we previously purchased? Not a way to instill loyalty and good will. Also it is a way for what good will there is to evaporate.
2) Antithetical to current direction - It has seemingly been that over time, STO would has been moving away bound to character items. Heck, even in the special events, rewards have migrated from once per character, to once per account. But when we are paying with REAL MONEY, that seems to go out the window.
Since I started playing I have had to retire due to injury and breathing difficulties, while it does mean that I can play more, it also means that even at the reduced price, it is two or three months of saving of money to buy this pack this time. To get the Dominion pack, I even reduced my dosage on some of my meds to be able to buy it a month earlier than I would have otherwise. But Cryptic has decided that it needs to nickle and dime us. I hope that they do remember that this all comes at a price, as both EA and Besthesda have seen this year, customer good will is hard to credit, easily spent, and once in deficit may never be rebuilt.
GP
1) Buy these big packs (though I spend lots of money on the game, the packs don't usually appeal enough to spend over $100 on 'em).
2) Post in these forums.
So when I saw this pack, I expected to be uninterested. Then I saw some of the cool things it had, and immediately became quite interested, to the point I was going to buy it. Then I dug into the details and saw that in addition to having less ships than usual (which I could live with), it ALSO has a bunch of once per account things, including the BOFFS??? Really? I get that the keys and xp boost are once per account. They usually are, and they could/would be easily abused if they weren't. But the BOFFS?
This caused me to log in to these forums just to state that I am highly disappointed, and shall not be buying this pack.
Whatever drugs the folk(s) who made the once-per-account decision are on...well, ya might want to tell them to cut back a bit.
However, I was in a rush and looking back on that comment, it may have seemed like I was fine with this pack at 8400 zen if they made the BOff's and combat pet account unlocks instead of once for a single character. That is not the case. The value of this pack is sorely lacking in my eyes.
At best, 5 ships if you don't already own the Discovery Starter Pack, one of them not meant for endgame and only 2 for Fed and 2 for KDF, no cross faction ships. Sorry Roms and Jems. Though I guess Roms and Jems should be able to at least fly their Allies ships. But no confirmation on that so far. Let's say they relent and allow the BOff's and combat pet to be account wide. There are also 2 apparently full uniforms, 1 for Fed, 1 for KDF along with a Federation 'head' costume unlock. Lastly are some Upgrade kits, some XP boosts and 10 Master Keys. All for 12k Zen off sale. (There may be a discount for those who already own the Discovery Starter Pack, but none has been mentioned.)
Looking at the other non-Starter packs at their normal price we have the Romulan (15k Zen), Delta (15k Zen), Temporal (13k Zen) and Gamma (13k Zen).
Looking back now, it would seem that the Romulan pack, at least in this age of T6 ships, may be slightly overpriced. But then you see what you get and there are 9 ships (Romulan only), 5 meant for endgame and 4 others not. Also included is a BOff that is account wide (Romulans only), a playable small ship/fighter/shuttle (Romulan only), a species unlock, a pack of 3 Duty Officers that is account wide (Romulans only), 2 Romulan only uniforms and 30 master keys.
Next up is the Delta pack with 9 total endgame ships. No crossfaction ships, so 5 Fed, 2 Romulan and 2 KDF. There are 2 account wide uniform unlocks with no restrictions. We also get 3 BOffs and 3 DOffs that are per character. Last but not least are 3 Ship Upgrade Tokens (takes certain T5 ships to T5-U, allowing them to be endgame worthy) and 3 Upgrade kits.
Moving on to the Temporal pack and here we have 12 total ships, with at least 7 of them being meant for endgame*. There is an account wide EV suit (Fed only) and 6 uniforms (Fed only), plus an account wide BOff (Fed only). There are 6 Temporal Operative Specialization Qualifications and 3 Upgrade kits as well.
Last but not least we have the Gamma pack with 10 cross faction, endgame ready ships along with 2 species unlocks that allow play on either Fed or KDF side. One account wide uniform and an account wide EV suit. Closing out the pack are 3 account wide BOff's, 2 large XP boosts and 3 upgrade kits.
Older packs seem to have much more value to them than this new pack, So, let's only compare the things that will likely matter the most to players; ships, additional personnel, uniforms and additional lower value items. Then see where *I* rank them. Titles hold ZERO value to me, so I won't even acknowledge them.
Ships -
1. Gamma
2. Temporal
3. Delta
4. Romulan
5. Discovery
This one is tough to judge. If we go by total, it would be Temporal wining. But, you have to look at all sides and KDF/Roms/Jems only get access to 3 of the ships. (Unless some of those ships are in the list that Roms and Jems can fly, then that would make it better for them, obviously. But KDF are left out here.) Despite the Romulan pack ships being Rom restricted, there are simply more of them. The 5 endgame ships will require upgrade tokens to make them truly endgame worthy, but even then they get the edge. They also get a small craft so that is always usable, though may not be as useful.
Additional personnel - This will include BOff's, DOff's combat pets and unlocked species.
1. Gamma
2. Delta
3. Romulan
4. Temporal
5. Discovery
Tough to call on this one, but I put Gamma first due to the 2 species unlocks. Just barely though. I put Romulan ahead of Temporal in this instance because while both Romulan and Temporal Bundles have a restricted BOff, the Romulan pack also offers the pack of 3 DOff's.
Uniforms - I will include the EV suits in this section as they can be worn as a visual.
1. Delta
2. Temporal
3. Gamma
4. Discovery
5. Romulan
Another difficult one to rank this, and this is just my opinion, but with the Delta uniforms being cross faction, they get the nod simply because they are open to everyone. Temporal obviously has more uniforms, but they are restricted to Fed only. It's the sheer number that kept it ahead of the Gamma pack this time, though the EV suit in the Gamma pack is account wide and not faction restricted like the Temporal EV suit. And I'll probably get some hate for it, but while the Discovery Uniforms only really contain 1 uni for Fed (plus a new head detail) and 1 uni for KDF, I think the fact it has broader reach than the 2 Romulan uniforms gives it a slight edge.
Other items - This would be the XP boosts, the upgrade tokens and keys.
1. Delta
2. Temporal
3. Gamma
4. Discovery* & Romulan*
With the #4 and #5 spots, this gets kind of confusing, so it's a tie. I'd like to put the Discovery pack at #4 if the player doesn't own the Discovery Starter pack already simply due to the items that would come with the starter pack. An additional XP boost and the extra Inventory slots, that are unfortunately locked to the character who purchases it, are not bad. And then the non-combat pet and scaling weapons are decent for alts who are still leveling. With only keys in the Romulan pack, even though it is 30 keys, there's just not enough 'extra' to give it an edge. But, that's also 20 extra chances at getting a big ticket item, and at the very least 80 Lobi. Hmm... yeah, tie.
I'd have to say the best value pack we've gotten so far is the Gamma Pack. The number of items is just immense, especially compared to the upcoming Discovery pack. For 1k more Zen you get 6 additional ships that also happen to be CROSS FACTION. Just for that alone, it makes it more worth the money.
I'm willing to bet more will be added to the new Discovery pack. Maybe 1 or more ships, hopefully for both factions and not just Fed. I can see them "allowing" the BOff's and combat pet to be unlocked account wide.
Who knows what else they may add, if anything, but even if they add 2 more ships for BOTH Fed and KDF, it's still not worth 12k Zen to me. A price STARTING at 10k Zen with the above listed additions would seem fair, then that 30% sale would put it at 7k Zen, which would be a price I could see myself going for.
With the pack as it stands now though, BUT with the BOff's and combat pet being account unlocks, (this is a deal breaker, no matter the cost) a starting price at 7500 zen would be about right. With 30% off of that at launch (5250 Zen), again, I think I would buy.
I can see them allowing the BOff's/combat pet to be account wide, but not lowering the price. No sale for me.
I can see them adding to the pack but keeping the BOff's/combat pet 1 per account and the price the same. No sale for me.
I can see them adding to the pack, allowing the BOff's/combat pet to be account wide but keeping the price. Unless the added stuff is a huge amount, no sale for me.
tl;dr
Add additional items to the pack to give it a greater value. Allow the BOff's and combat pet to be unlocked account wide. Add at least 1 more ship to both Fed and KDF. Or, at the very least, lower the starting price of the pack.
As it is now, not even with someone else's money would I buy this pack as it will just encourage this type of thing in the future.
*An argument could be made that the Ranger could be meant for endgame, but with it lacking the ability to be upgraded to T5-U, *I* don't consider it as an endgame ship. But that is a different argument for another place and time.
Losing faith in humanity, one person at a time.
As for the "there's no Romulans in Disc so of course not in STO Disc!" Really? I don't recall seeing the Ranger, Gemini or Perseus in TOS but we have those. I don't recall the Venture class, the Arbiter battlecruiser, infact any federation battlecruisers, direct me to an episode with the armitage heavy escort carrier please. What about that awesome episode with USS Scott miracle worker cruiser? hm? What about all those new Cardassian ships or Jem'Hadar ships?
Oh? you mean.. they all don't exist? but since we're doing a discovery themed bit here we can't do up some Romulan ships? riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight cuse this is where the buck stops on made up ships! Gotcha..
Or this.. nothing stops them from releasing current timeline Rom ships if there's some sorta CBS saying no Rom discovery stuff!
Didn't they say this wasn't an Expansion. Three Phases, two Lockboxes and now a Pack sure quacks like one.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The difference with your examples is that there was stuff to go on when creating those ships.
- Ranger, Perseus, Gemini: These ships were created based on the TOS style that we already knew about.
- Arbiter: The Avenger and Arbiter were based off of Klingon battlecruisers and influenced by Starfleet ship designs. They were introduced at a time that the Klingon Empire was still for the most part a frenemy.
- Armitage Heavy Escort Carrier: Come on now, this ship was designed after the Akira. Once again it's a derived ship design.
- Miracle worker Cruisers: I know they are not canon, but they do derive from existing Starfleet. Klingon & Romulan designs.
- Cardassian ships: Yes, these ships were designed by cryptic, but once again, they do derive from existing Cardassian designs.
- Jem'hadar ships: It was stated that the ships were pretty much utilized by Odo's attachment of Jem'hadar, and were not the standard for the entire fleet. Given that most of the Dominion stands in a weakened state now, these ships are gonna be more of the standard for the fleet moving forward. To me though, there are hints of the old Dominion ship design in them, as they're derived from those ships.
Everything mentioned had some sort of derivation from either canon or established standards. As there is no established standard for Romulan ships in the 23rd century within Discovery (the only Romulan ship known from the era canonically doesn't appear for another 9-10 years), they cannot bring anything out. Sure, if they wanted to, they could do 2410 ships, but they probably won't get the kind of customization options that the Discovery Klingon and Starfleet ships get (access to Discovery era skins in addition to existing skin options).
I honestly think what stops them from doing it is that they simply do not want to just make a Romulan only set of ships, since creatively, they may not know what more they can do that doesn't already exist. There's nothing left from the C-store besides the Dyson Science Destroyer Warbirds to bring up to T6.
Or depending upon what your state of Reputations tiers are just use the T6 Reputations fleet ship module option to purchase them too, just another option, & "anemic' is a great description for this pack compared to the previous packs.
Except the Walker & the Spearhead are lobi store (for the T6) & lock box ships, respectively. Unlike the Walker, the Crossfield Spearhead could not be made as a leveling ship because CBS wouldn't allow it, stating that the Glenn and the Discovery are the only 2 ships of the class as far as we know in 2256.
The Nimitz/Europa would be a good ship to add to the pack as its ship that fits in with Discovery. I have a feeling through that the Gagarin and the Shran might be T6, level 50 required ships, but I could be wrong since even the T'pau when introduced was given the [T6] moniker too, but was a full leveling ship, so we could have the Gagarin, Shran, M'Chla and Qugh ships possibly all as leveling ships.
Now, moving on to this whole Expansion debacle, technically, it still isn't an expansion in the way that expansions have been handled in the past. Legacy of Romulus, Delta Rising, Agents of Yesterday and Victory is Life were all things that had prior development time to work on, and had a large content drop all at once.
They stated that when Age of Discovery's content drops are finally over, it'll feel like an expansion with how much content that will have been introduced. We are only in Phase 2 of the content right now, and possibly there could me another phase we don't even know about yet. We only know so far what's happening up to May, which is the month that phase 3 is supposed to be released.
And I have to agree, 4 ships seems very lean for a pack like this. Especially if you even need to buy Fleet versions to get their full stats. Compare to the Gamma pack last year, which had 10 ships fully-powered from the box. And account-unlock boffs and stuff, too.