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[PC] Updates to Hair and Skin Textures

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  • anodynesanodynes Member Posts: 1,758 Arc User
    I definitely like the color change. Old hair colors were always washed-out, so you really couldn't get a reasonable range from medium blonde through medium brown, and auburn and red hair were always this unnatural pinkish hue. Texture, though, seems a bit flat.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 8,128 Arc User
    Alright guys, here's some good news. Kael just said on the livestream that they are aware of all the bugs caused by the graphical update and are considering rolling it back. Here's hoping.

    I'll hold off on doing anything then, no need to go and make changes to accommodate the new appearance if it's just going to roll back.

    Overall, I like the changes it only has a few odd issues for me. The chrome/silver parts of the Klingon Honor Guard for example are now a flat matte black that looks.. odd. Other then that, the only other issue is that it seems to change hair color but not facial hair so bears/goatees are now different color then the hair.

    I am sure there will be adjustments as time goes on so for now I'll just watch and wait.
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  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    Black is the new black, but white is no longer white.

    This update fixed an old problem that they introduced in 2014 when they changed the hair colors the first time.
    Yes! The goal is to allow whiter hair! The best example is how the Andorians could only get off-white hair at best.

    ...and this is a prime example of what is hoped to be considered an broader reaching improvement...at the cost of having to renovate the existing foundation a bit.

    Unfortunately adding "more colors to the color palette" as suggested isn't viable. There is already a white swatch and we can't make white more white :P

    To elaborate, coloring hair is essentially a "multiply" color layer (for those familiar with photoshop). The previous (Holodeck) diffuse hair textures had a lot of brown and/or grey. So choosing the white color swatch didn't make the hair any more white - it remained tinged brown and/or grey.

    So this is a case in order to improve in a broader sense, we had to modify the existing assets. Whether or not that's actually perceived as an improvement leads to the next item...

    The goal was to allow for whiter hair, but as a side effect, they made all hair lighter. For example, see this picture of Admiral T'Nae that I took after the first hair color update.

    https://imgur.com/CbfpFZ1

    Her hair is supposed to black, but notice how it looks gray. Back in 2014, CrypticJoeJing said they would make a second update to hair colors in order to fix this problem, but that update never happened.

    White/black hair update
    We'll have another hair texture update coming soon based on feedback which pointed out that black hair wasn't as black after the recent hair texture update (which was meant to allow whiter hair).

    The textures have been modified. White hair won't look as pure white as the most recent update, but is still whiter than originally in most cases.

    And black hair will be close to what it was originally with slightly more contrast.

    Hair color changes
    Holodeck ticket 2,601,169: Second hair color update never happened

    This recent update does fix the problem. Black is black again. Unfortunately, white is now gray. I don't understand why it has to be one or the other. Maybe, they should give us manual control over the color of the specular highlights. If I understand correctly, the specular highlights used to be white, but now they actually have color. The color of the specular highlights is determined by the base color of the hair.

    Updates to Hair and Skin Textures
    How did you go about making these changes?

    While I was updating all the old hair shaders in STO I spent a little extra time to make the hair look better. I added anisotropic specular and made the hair color affect the specular color. I also adjusted how the fresnel and light bleed affected the hair color. This should make the hair look softer and more natural. After I finished the hair I updated the skin shader to make the characters look more alive. For this, I just added a bit of inverted fresnel to fake some subsurface scatter.
    Waiting for a programmer ...

    qVpg1km.png
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,550 Arc User
    edited January 25

    Overall, I like the changes it only has a few odd issues for me. The chrome/silver parts of the Klingon Honor Guard for example are now a flat matte black that looks.. odd. Other then that, the only other issue is that it seems to change hair color but not facial hair so bears/goatees are now different color then the hair.

    The flat matte textures on large swaths of the tailor are not intentional. Ex. intel, vaadwuar, voth rep, undine rep, all the original FED uniforms, all original Klingon uniforms, tzunkatse gloves, section 31 (lower, boots), all of the kit armors base suits (alpha, gamma, beta), quite a few kit armor pieces, and terran rep armor. That's worth emphasizing because between it and texturing issues, hard margins (very jagged, antithetical to intention), and coloring issues (note the over saturation on old hairstyles compared to those like beehive, as well as the deep dark lines that appear now from more subtle shadings previously [ex. elegant]) on all but the latest hairstyles (ex. beehive) I don't see how this balances out (in technical terms) to a positive outcome. For comparison's sake (for uniforms) look at the original FED uniforms (Sierra, Antares). They have glossy and matte uniform options. Glossy is bugged, matte is what it was originally (or at least close to it). Matte now looks glossy by comparison, the affected uniforms are simply dysfunctional. The material finish has been completely wiped from these uniforms as (it appears) a secondary consequence of the update (they may have been using effects that were changed for hair/skin.)

    For whatever skin tones (which do look pretty good) and a slim minority of hairstyles have gained (ie. those like the TOS beehive), the tailor has lost big (speaking as an avid space Barbie enthusiast and perhaps the most prolific costume/npc creator in the Foundry community) and I don't think it's unfair to stress that point. There are big technical problems associated with this update and it's not a matter of simply fixing a few minor bugs then even up to a full revision is justified. There are some good points but if that's the point where at in discussion then this QoL update has not met the bar for implementation. It's not worth maintaining these changes for the net cost involved.
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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  • botanybangbotanybang Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 26
    Although for most characters this is a welcome improvement, I somehow can't get my peroxide blonde look I had with one of my chars back after that upgrade... maybe expand the color pallette?

    Edit: Just read what duncan said above, and I fear the moment when I have a closer look...
  • slicker1slicker1 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited January 26
    One of the worst Updates in this game!

    728f5f-1548543505.png

    Grey hair and white eyebrows?
    That looks so awful.......
  • kaggert27kaggert27 Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    On one hand, the hair colours are better, on the other, people's skin tones are "off" according to some, and uniforms that had high shiny lost shiny...but if you notice some "materials" of uniforms now show light better, others seem to have lost some (some dulled out right)----Some Examples:

    8472 Counter-Command Elite Exo-Armor: used to have a shine, lost completely, colors are more pronounced now though so if you varied tailoring.
    M.A.C.O. Armor: some parts lost shine completely, still kept some on the cloth parts.
    Discovery Uniform: The ST symbol, and all the reflective trim actually shine off now vs just being brighter.
    Most "Cloth": now looks like cloth, gets more depth to colour, black looks more black, etc...but lost Matte and Shine on some.

    Hair to me, now actually catches light more realistic vs just a general high shine out like it used to. Issues much like how said by:
    The flat matte textures on large swaths of the tailor are not intentional. Ex. intel, vaadwuar, voth rep, undine rep, all the original FED uniforms, all original Klingon uniforms, tzunkatse gloves, section 31 (lower, boots), all of the kit armors base suits (alpha, gamma, beta), quite a few kit armor pieces, and terran rep armor. That's worth emphasizing because between it and texturing issues, hard margins (very jagged, antithetical to intention), and coloring issues (note the over saturation on old hairstyles compared to those like beehive, as well as the deep dark lines that appear now from more subtle shadings previously [ex. elegant]) on all but the latest hairstyles (ex. beehive) I don't see how this balances out (in technical terms) to a positive outcome. For comparison's sake (for uniforms) look at the original FED uniforms (Sierra, Antares). They have glossy and matte uniform options. Glossy is bugged, matte is what it was originally (or at least close to it). Matte now looks glossy by comparison, the affected uniforms are simply dysfunctional. The material finish has been completely wiped from these uniforms as (it appears) a secondary consequence of the update (they may have been using effects that were changed for hair/skin.)

    For whatever skin tones (which do look pretty good) and a slim minority of hairstyles have gained (ie. those like the TOS beehive), the tailor has lost big (speaking as an avid space Barbie enthusiast and perhaps the most prolific costume/npc creator in the Foundry community) and I don't think it's unfair to stress that point. There are big technical problems associated with this update and it's not a matter of simply fixing a few minor bugs then even up to a full revision is justified. There are some good points but if that's the point where at in discussion then this QoL update has not met the bar for implementation. It's not worth maintaining these changes for the net cost involved.
    Basically to me it is a material value in system that would have to be identified for every armor/part/set in system to tell what should shine, be matte, flat, or not. My thinking is when the changes were applied, not every armor and clothing material in tailor had identifiers for some shaders to take advantage, so everything had a general purpose shader for "armor" vs say "Rep Armor Material: Metallic Shine #3" or "Cloth Material Matte Diffuse #2" that the system auto-applied and overruled the older one. But all the newer uniforms that were added after some point, did take a more proper approach to lighting (such as the DSC uniform) and material identification in system, so some benefits happened for those.

    So to me, it's just a coding issue, and larger fix to do over time to armors/uniforms that can be done over time. Would I preferred them to have done this on Tribble first months ago to identify what people would complain about? Yes. Did it happen? Maybe? IDK, didn't hear about it in game from people on Holodeck until this release. And yeah I'm sad my Metallic armors have lost their shine. But not everything needs to have the same shine value. more unique is preferred to me. So I hope this results in them assigning values that vary for sets.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,295 Arc User
    Hopefully this revert comes through this week. Hopefully. Otherwise, the game is visually impossible to enjoy right now.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 1,879 Arc User
    Quite enjoy the new face textures, they just look really clear, and so far have not encountered the pixelated faces bug that strikes randomly and persists until a game restart. The hair just looks darker, and really not what I had selected in some cases. Sad to see so many problems reported by others. I hope they can be resolved so at the very least the face textures stay.
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  • theomenntheomenn Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    The face textures are part of the problems.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,932 Arc User
    Quite enjoy the new face textures, they just look really clear, and so far have not encountered the pixelated faces bug that strikes randomly and persists until a game restart. The hair just looks darker, and really not what I had selected in some cases. Sad to see so many problems reported by others. I hope they can be resolved so at the very least the face textures stay.

    Those face textures you find appealing, has removed aging on my characters and smoothed out scars and, even, ridges on my Klingons and the shading is off on the Romulan ridges. I have not had time to look closer at my Leathean. Have not had time to look at the Nausicaans, either. The Ferasan does not seem to be effected as much.
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  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 5,859 Arc User
    edited January 28
    Change it back!
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,932 Arc User
    I am seeing this weird blue glowing on my Ferasan's head lately...as I am wandering around looking for Omegas on Ground maps.... LOL!

    https://i.imgur.com/ddcDQye.jpg
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  • xceptionalzeroxceptionalzero Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    Very interesting
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,096 Arc User
    rather they went and fix some of the models and transparencies... ie glass. would be nice if you put on a helmet and you can see your own face thru the glass faceplate... or wear eyeglasses and see your eyes.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 1,775 Arc User
    tigeraries wrote: »
    rather they went and fix some of the models and transparencies... ie glass. would be nice if you put on a helmet and you can see your own face thru the glass faceplate... or wear eyeglasses and see your eyes.

    Well seeing your face thru the helmet faceplate would actually mean rebuilding how helmets are done as they're a head replacement atm (aka there's no head inside the helmet as far the in-game model is conserned) rather then a model overlay and that's a rather big change even if it's even viable to do so.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 843 Arc User
    edited January 28
    spiritborn wrote: »
    tigeraries wrote: »
    rather they went and fix some of the models and transparencies... ie glass. would be nice if you put on a helmet and you can see your own face thru the glass faceplate... or wear eyeglasses and see your eyes.

    Well seeing your face thru the helmet faceplate would actually mean rebuilding how helmets are done as they're a head replacement atm (aka there's no head inside the helmet as far the in-game model is conserned) rather then a model overlay and that's a rather big change even if it's even viable to do so.

    On top of that, a lot of the people who use helmets do so to hide the face of the character, which is why there are so many Jem'Hadar running around in vacc suits instead of their own very good but unfortunately helmetless armor. If they offered something people could stand to look at and identify with for Dominion, like the Vorta, most JH would disappear from the game entirely.
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 1,879 Arc User
    Indeed, already seeing problems myself, the Reman outfit I bought used to be properly reflective but is now instead matte. Also not sure if this indirectly impacted other game visuals, as my Annorax in Vulcan space shows up as nearly all white despite the shield visuals being reflective shiny that do show up properly when pressing U key to view the shield visual options.
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  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 5,019 Arc User
    thay8472 wrote: »
    Change it back!

    I agree, at least until they make an attempt to start fixing the many issues as a result of these changes and also restoring the shades of white to actually being shades of white.
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 1,347 Arc User
    jcsww wrote: »
    thay8472 wrote: »
    Change it back!

    I agree, at least until they make an attempt to start fixing the many issues as a result of these changes and also restoring the shades of white to actually being shades of white.

    It does need to be worked on more. As an aside, in your banner latinum is spelled wrong. Thanks. :)
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  • houserozhenkohouserozhenko Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    I like the hair and skin changes, except for intentionally brighter hair colors, which look darker now than they should. You cannot make really white shiny hair anymore. There should be a shininess slider for every hair or a material that is "unlit" or "glowing".

    As for the clothing this update got many things worse. For example is it not possible to create a unique but coherent look anymore by mixing and matching sets which were metallic or shiny before. Some of them are now rather leathery and some are looking like plastic and some don't have any reflection at all making them look like fabric tissue.

    Also an issue that is related, and in my opinion needs to be fixed before you work on materials, is the overall lighting and shading and eye adaptation system, which it utterly borked at the moment.

    I can currently stand in bright daylight and look onto my character from above so that I don't have any light source directly in my view which would overbright my character but my character looks almost black.

    Strangely when I look up and have the "sun" or any other light source in my view, the character also brightens up.

    This is the total opposite of a correct eye adaptation and totally ruins everything visually and this is the root cause why you cannot get your character faces and hair and clothing look right.

    Adding to that the light presets in the tailor are just blatantly garbage because they don't reflect the real situation - not a bit.

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  • laetexbunslaetexbuns Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    It's not only just the hair coloring either. 7of9 and other crisp shiny outfits look matte, nasty and dull. Leather looks like a flat cloth, dull color with no sheen or shine, armor appears plastic in appearance. Boots are dull with no shine. Gloves like the intel look dull and flat. All hair colorings are off in the tailor so that we can't get what we want anymore and if you have pink forget it, green, purple, blue etc...expect the eyebrows to be the same color as the hair, an old bug that has returned.

    This didn't only not fix something that wasn't broke, he screwed up outfits that we paid cash money for. We paid for those outfits because they looked like what they should. Now my 7 of 9 outfit looks like some worn out spandex Richard Simmons groupies used leotard, instead of the nice, crisp clean and shiny it was purchased to be. It, along with all of the purchased outfits that had sheen or shine on them have now been taken from us at some whim that wasn't tested or thought through.

    The hair color is off from the pallet so we can't even get the proper color hair any longer. None of these outfits I paid for are anything like what I purchased. I would greatly appreciate the way to revert my styles, colors, and looks back to the way they were. I have 31 toons and 266 outfit slots, 6 was stolen from me by some such type of nonsense as this years ago and I now can't make any new outfits without deleting another on my main.

    This issue makes me feel I just had my purse stolen and identity taken for no good reason. It's tough to be a female in a mmorpg as is without having your game identity screwed around with.
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  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,932 Arc User
    I am now seeing that blue glow on OTHER player's characters.... so it is not just happening to my Ferasan.

    https://i.imgur.com/bgD2cft.jpg
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 2,986 Arc User
    For me Environment suits are now invisible apart from the helmet. This downgrade in graphics needs rolling back.
  • trygvar13trygvar13 Member Posts: 675 Arc User
    Also please disable the long hair cuts for Jem'Hadar... they make them look like trailerpark trash and i don't think any Jem'Hadar ever wore their hair like that in canon shows.

    Actually we did see a Jem'Hadar sporting long hair. He had no name at the time is now called Dukan'Rex. The episode played on Space a few weeks ago. And I do like the look on my Jem'Hadar.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 34,446 Arc User
    laetexbuns wrote: »
    It's not only just the hair coloring either. 7of9 and other crisp shiny outfits look matte, nasty and dull. Leather looks like a flat cloth, dull color with no sheen or shine, armor appears plastic in appearance. Boots are dull with no shine. Gloves like the intel look dull and flat. All hair colorings are off in the tailor so that we can't get what we want anymore and if you have pink forget it, green, purple, blue etc...expect the eyebrows to be the same color as the hair, an old bug that has returned.
    I've noted some odd changes to pretty much everything that had a glossy luster before. Reflective thigns look the same, but anything not fully reflective is now dull.
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  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 181 Arc User
    EWW! It looks like you washed my toon's hair in a bucket of tar! It's darker now but dark and looks slimy! Please change this back. :'(
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,550 Arc User
    Fixes listed in tomorrow's patch notes for various hair/skin shader issues, no specifics so we'll have to see what exactly this entails (roll back or straight fixes.)
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  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,932 Arc User
    Patch notes for 31 January 2019 is here:
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11081393
    Fixes listed in tomorrow's patch notes for various hair/skin shader issues, no specifics so we'll have to see what exactly this entails (roll back or straight fixes.)

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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 8,128 Arc User
    Hopefully we see some improvement after this weeks patch.
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