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Has something changed in space combat?

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  • themadprofessor#9835 themadprofessor Member Posts: 1,203 Arc User
    > @sophlogimo said:
    > themadprofessor#9835 wrote: »
    >
    > [...]
    > Stupid move on my part, really.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > No, it's called bravery. In that case maybe a bit too much of it, but commendable nevertheless. ;)

    There's a fine line between bravery and stupidity, my friend. Doing that crossed that line and set up a mighty empire on the side of stupidity.
    Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.

    Things I want in STO:

    1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
    2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
    3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
    4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
    5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
    6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
    7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
    8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
  • pfft2pfft2 Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    For reference, I have two characters who do 30k dps in Sakari System Patrol on Elite, and I only pushed them that high because technically, that's a requirement for elite queues. They do have some fancy gear, but none of the traits many DPSers would deem a "necessity". I think.

    The first thing you have to understand about DPS numbers is that they're only useful if you compare like to like. You can't compare e.g. Red Alert DPS numbers to ISA numbers, or for that matter ISA numbers in a "nanny run" (a team designed from the ground up to enhance one person's damage) to ISA numbers in a PUG.

    30k in the Sakari Patrol on elite may well equate to a far larger number in a traditional context (ISA/HSE). This may be one of the reasons for the disconnect in this conversation.

    Regardless of whether it's *technically possible* or not, a team of five players all at 30k ISA DPS (~150k DPS total) would suffer spectacularly in HSE. Hell, I've been in teams with 700+k team DPS where there were still multiple deaths. HSE is no joke, particularly after VIL. Likewise, the old claim that 10k is "enough" for Advanced content probably isn't true. Sure, you might be able to complete the queue with five players at 10-15k each, but it'll take forever and a lot of people are going to die. I think a lot of players at the low end think that Advanced is "super easy" because they don't realize how much they're being carried.
    Well, if you believe that it is anything but the right equipment (again, including traits) combined with things like rightly timed buffs, proper positioning and teamwork (especially with regard to debufffs), then please elaborate.

    Obviously gear is important, but gear only sets the ceiling. Piloting determines how close you can get to the ceiling.

    The problem, more so than the numbers achievable at the top end, is that players at the low end don't know what they're doing. This isn't a knock on those players; the game is very complicated, both with regard to designing builds and more importantly with regard to the interface - a million buttons to push, and so forth. STO makes pretty much zero attempt to teach players; most probably don't know what keybinds are, much less how to use them. Hell, I've met players who didn't even know that you can fire more than one weapon at once.

    I've also seen players in top-end builds (even in lockbox ships) put out damage numbers that I could hit in white gear, with my eyes closed. So we have a huge performance gap, but the low end skews the analysis; mechanically, their ships are *capable* of much more DPS, given good Boff skill choices. (Your bridge layout is the most important part of your ship build. And your equipment/trait choices must first be coherent, before we worry about obtaining all the latest uber stuff.)

    New players in budget builds can perform respectably, but they have to know how. After spending countless hours trying to walk people through that process, I've come to appreciate how confusing the game really is. Longtime players like us take a lot of our understanding for granted. But by the same token, new players who never learn properly can develop bad habits.

    All of that said, the real disparity between low and top end, in terms of *game balance* (read: mechanics), in a like-to-like context, isn't 5k versus 400k or whatever high end number you want to cherry pick; it's probably more like 30k-300k, and the number of players who can do 200k+ in a traditional ISA run comprise less than 0.1% of the population. If you eliminate the extreme outliers at the top, then, you're left with something like a 5-fold difference, which really isn't out of line with what you see in other MMO or progression-based video games.

    What you're seeing in this thread is a justified pushback against the complaint that the best DPSers got to that level just by pulling out a credit card. This is an obvious falsehood, but it's got a wide following because some players just don't care to learn how to play. The notion that gear is everything salves their egos. And that's fine for them; they can enjoy STO however they wish - but their misinformation can give other players the wrong idea.

    You can, in fact, perform well in a budget build. You can even achieve high-end performance without spending a dime on the game, if you have a little patience and a willingness to learn. Lockbox/Lobi items are overrated, too.
  • aoav160aoav160 Member Posts: 436 Arc User
    Warp Core breaches are also doing ridiculously high damage that's more than capable of one-shotting you.

    Warp core breaches are insane. Pretty much the only thing that kills me anymore, by far the most dangerous thing in the game at the current time.

    Same for me. WCB's are stupid strong now.
  • pfft2pfft2 Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    pfft2 wrote: »
    [...]
    Obviously gear is important, but gear only sets the ceiling. Piloting determines how close you can get to the ceiling.

    So say you have a ceiling of 500k dps for a given piece of content, and you are piloting at 30% efficiency, wouldn't you end up with a much easier game than with a ceiling og 50k dps and 100% piloting efficiency?

    Of course. I never disputed that. The point is that the low end performs a lot worse than its budget constraints alone allow. And apart from a relative handful of the very best players in the game, no one's reaching the performance ceiling afforded by the very best builds.

    Skill and experience matter a lot. And by the way, no one has a ceiling of 500k DPS (outside of a nanny run), which is another little fact you'd glean if you read the whole post in good faith.
    What you're seeing in this thread is a justified pushback against the complaint that the best DPSers got to that level just by pulling out a credit card.

    Pardon, didn't you just write above that the budget (build) sets the ceiling?

    If you were really interested in the game balance problems posed by high end gear, as you claimed, then you'd be more open to discussing the extent of the performance disparity, in game-balance terms. I gave you a pretty detailed appraisal of that disparity, based on my long experience chasing numbers, teaming with people of all skill levels, and most of all, helping people with builds/piloting.

    Your response? Willfully obtuse gotcha games. "LOL, if you acknowledge that gear matters at all, then you're admitting it's all that matters!" C'mon, you're smarter than this.
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    @sophlogimo do YOU find the game content easy? Do YOU play in elite content runs regularly? And are YOU pushing builds over the 100K DPS mark?

    If the answer to any of those is NO then how the hell can you have any understanding of what goes on at that level of play? I mean you're claiming everything is too easy and gear alone is spoiling the game because it has "potential" to be used for such great numbers; and yet i've not seen you post a single parse, or video of your actions in game to indicate that all your talk is anything other than jealousy of the better player's abilities.
    I mean if you were regularly running with @peterconnorfirst and @tunebreaker and gettign 100K+ scores and finding it a cake-walk then fair enough, you'd have grounds to complain. Perhaps you feel in that instance that "yes the game really is too easy, i can smash this content with my eyes closed, where is the challenge".
    However all you're really doing is constantly banging on about how you feel that the game is too easy because some people are capable of deeds you cannot accomplish. It just looks like the tired old spiteful argument "if i cannot do X then nobody should be able to".
    Frankly you're becoming a one-trick pony on this subject. If you were really concerned with enjoying the game and getting into the balance issues you'd drop the anti-DPS, anti-gear shtick and try to grasp how people are getting such figures.
    SulMatuul.png
  • pfft2pfft2 Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    pfft2 wrote: »
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    pfft2 wrote: »
    [...]
    Obviously gear is important, but gear only sets the ceiling. Piloting determines how close you can get to the ceiling.

    So say you have a ceiling of 500k dps for a given piece of content, and you are piloting at 30% efficiency, wouldn't you end up with a much easier game than with a ceiling og 50k dps and 100% piloting efficiency?

    Of course. I never disputed that. The point is that the low end performs a lot worse than its budget constraints alone allow. And apart from a relative handful of the very best players in the game, no one's reaching the performance ceiling afforded by the very best builds.

    Skill and experience matter a lot.

    I'll easily admit that. What I usually try to point out is that such a ceiling is much, much, much too high in the first place.

    Ok, but how do you come to that conclusion? The reason I went on at such length to describe A) the level of performance needed to complete HSE comfortably, and B ) the baseline performance disparity between low and high end builds, is that you can't coherently debate the game balance issue without having a handle on those things.

    That's also why I mentioned the problem with your 30k number on the patrol map. I wouldn't be surprised if your "30k" is really something like 50-60k in ISA, which is the context we all use. If you're under the mistaken impression that your performance level is drastically lower than it really is, then you might have a mistaken idea of how well high-end builds can perform, in contrast to yours.
    [...]
    be more open to discussing the extent of the performance disparity, in game-balance terms.

    I just believe that there is nothing problematic about skilled people performing better than unskilled people. So why discuss it in this context?

    Because we're discussing differences in build strength based on real world performance disparities among the player base. Since skill varies by so much (more than it does in other MMOs, I'd argue), we have to do our best to factor it out of the equation. So for example, if an average player can do let's say 30k in a low end build, and a max of 150k in the best meta build with the best gear/traits, then it's a 5-fold difference, in game balance terms. And quite frankly, 150k for the average player is a very generous estimate.

    If you just look at real world performance by itself, you'll see a disproportionate number of people hanging out below 5k, and of course we're all predisposed to put undue weight on record breaking numbers - so we end up comparing people who basically can't play against the best of the best, the latter group so small you could almost count them on your fingers and toes.

    Of course you're welcome to argue that a five-fold disparity is a game balance problem. You're also welcome to dispute my estimate if you like - but I think it's clear that the real disparity in build strength isn't anywhere near as large as it's often claimed to be.
    Imagine, if you will, a magical console that increases your ceiling to 10 million dps. But you need to know when to use it to get to that number. If you don't, you'll get maybe 10% out of it.

    It would still be too high for the game's content, if the game experience is supposed to offer any kind of feeling that it is "hard to do, requiring skill", wouldn't you agree?

    But maybe it's just an unfortunate choice of words here. Maybe you meant to say that gear does not offer a ceiling, but a base, which is multiplied by skill?

    Sure you could say it that way. You could also call it potential. What matters is that skill plays a huge role; it's a confounding factor in any appraisal of the game's mechanical balance scheme.

    We (referring generically to DPSer types) routinely call out broken stuff that gives players ridiculous advantages, even situationally, like the Hurq beacon - an item which fits your analogy almost perfectly, by the way, capable of dealing more than a million DPS (over its 25-second lifespan) if you activate it at the right time, and on the right map.

    In contrast to I-Win-button items like that, high-end ship builds are all about stacking small, iterative improvements, and just about all of those improvements are affordable for anyone who just sticks around and plays for a few months. The whole is more than the sum of its parts.

    The best stuff isn't always the most expensive. And even when it is expensive, there are usually affordable substitutes that will give you most of the same benefit. There are also highly diminished returns on your investment as you climb up the ladder; as in many MMOs, most of the performance gains are among the lower hanging fruit.

    This, I think, is what's most frustrating thing about the notion that you can buy uber DPS in this game; the people saying it usually don't even know what would be the most effective things to buy. In the post I linked earlier, for example, the guy mentions things like uber "lockbox weapon procs." Those don't make a difference at all. Sensor-linked weapons are good because they trade their proc for a small, always-on CrtD bonus - but even their bonus is tiny in the grand scheme. If you see high-end players laying out ridiculous wads of virtual cash for this-or-that item or stat increase, there's a good chance they're not doing it because the item is uber. They're doing it because they're out of areas to optimize. You eventually reach a point where you will spend outlandishly for a ~1% performance boost, simply because you don't have anything else better to do.






  • qqqqiiqqqqii Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    Leaving aside the smarmy presumptions from some of the posters here, I'm talking about anomalous behavior of identical mobs in different instances. Our entire group got repeatedly mauled by Terran ships in a Normal Dranuur Gauntlet. Same group had no more than usual issues with Terran ships in Normal Counterpoint. This isn't about specializing a build, or taking specific, situational immunities to certain attack types.

  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,210 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Meh, I've forgotten what this was about now.

    I think you were about to make a new addition to your fleet.
    Need more whiskey!

    Oh I agree. :#
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
    Bring it on
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,210 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Is HSE supposed to be doable "comfortably"?

    ...

    Shouldn't the game and skill in it be about ... about the right movement patterns for a given situation, and coordination in a team ... ?

    You bring up two interesting points here which are directly interlinked and perhaps can be used to explain a bit better.

    On “Nannie” HSE runs for example the classic team constellation displays a tank and a sci duffer/crowd controller with the rest of the team being able to go all DPS. In such a constellation the Nannies *have* to do their job precisely to the point where they enable a “comfortable” way of conclusion of this map for the rest of the team with the most DPS centric player profiting the most.

    Would doing HSE that way not exactly be what you request with strategies, movement patterns and team coordination being applied for success?
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
    Bring it on
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,210 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Is HSE supposed to be doable "comfortably"?

    ...

    Shouldn't the game and skill in it be about ... about the right movement patterns for a given situation, and coordination in a team ... ?

    You bring up two interesting points here which are directly interlinked and perhaps can be used to explain a bit better.

    On “Nannie” HSE runs for example the classic team constellation displays a tank and a sci duffer/crowd controller with the rest of the team being able to go all DPS. In such a constellation the Nannies *have* to do their job precisely to the point where they enable a “comfortable” way of conclusion of this map for the rest of the team with the most DPS centric player profiting the most.

    Would doing HSE that way not exactly be what you request with strategies, movement patterns and team coordination being applied for success?

    Yes and no.

    Yes, because coordination should be required. Ideally, the community would establish standard on how to do it, and then most people would stick with that.

    No, because "comfortably" means it isn't a battle, but a day job at pest control. Battles (well, interesting ones, the ones where higher command has screwed up and you are up against a fairly balanced opposing force) should be dangerous and uncertain in their outcome.


    Ok, glad we reached a point of understanding of the yes part.

    What could I do to deliver the no part? Hm.

    The players do all of it to set DPS records. The higher the better but unfortunately higher is not easier because everybody in the team has to do his job faster and/or faces more pressure as result.

    Let’s abstract that to your solo patrol scenario you run. All aspects that HSE teams use may or may not be sorted via discrete roles and could be mounted on your single ship as well. You have offences for the dmg, you have defenses for the durability and engines for speed; and of course you have crowd control and de-buff abilities like gravity wells to place critters in your arc or use –drr or subnuc de-buffs.

    You managed 30k (?) which I would guess at Silver DPS if I would abstract it to familiar maps so not bad at all.
    Now switch around your boff abilities and try out different stuff as in flight path with one purpose only in mind: Get through the patrol faster without using different gear!

    No matter if you manage 31, 40 or 35k. It really would make me wonder if any higher results you get through any changes would lead to an easier or in fact harder or more challenging run for you.
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
    Bring it on
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,414 Arc User
    > @spiritborn said:
    > qqqqii wrote: »
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    > sophlogimo wrote: »
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    > Haven't noticed anything consciously, no. But if it's true, all the better! Will make the game a lot more interesting on the long run.
    >
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    > If I wanted to get one-shot by a single photon torpedo, I'd go looking for it in an Elite queue... not a "normal", where it happened, repeatedly. If you want that level of "challenge", that's where you go. Making the game even more aggravating than it already is, with it's long list of recurring bugs, including scaling issues, doesn't make the game more interesting, just broken.
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    > Never had single photon 1 shot me in STO content, Torp abilities like "torp volley" or "torp high yield" sure but never a single base torp, not even on my reman or klingon character who run raiders and yes I've ran elite content with those, fairly recently too.

    I have, but only when doing a mission with a level 60 friend while I was a level 9. I was getting one-shotted by BoP turrets because they were scaled to a level 60 threat.

    Stupid move on my part, really.
    I obviously meant "at proper level", mobs that are signifigant higher level then you do and should 1 shot you. What I meant is that I've never been 1 shot with a base torp by an enemy scaled to my level at higher levels at early levels where gear doesn't give much stats and weapons are relatively speaking more powerful possibly but not level 40+, not by base torp, torps launched using special skills sure several times (the terrans are especially annoying at that) but not by a base unaltered torp.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,210 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    [...]
    You managed 30k (?) which I would guess at Silver DPS if I would abstract it to familiar maps so not bad at all.
    Now switch around your boff abilities and try out different stuff as in flight path with one purpose only in mind: Get through the patrol faster without using different gear!

    No matter if you manage 31, 40 or 35k. It really would make me wonder if any higher results you get through any changes would lead to an easier or in fact harder or more challenging run for you.

    Simply clicking other stuff, or in a different order, isn't tough. It may be complicated to do, annoying even, but that's not harder. It is harder when your danger of blowing up is higher, which it of course is not in such a case, because with double the DPS, you only suffer half the damage.

    This is not correct as on your quest to beat your map faster with your tools available you will be forced to min max all aspects of your build for the task at hand. Cut back on defenses and up your attacks and speeds at the risk of blowing up!!!! At some point it will be down to split seconds where you have to decide what to do in the mission. Retreat and it won’t get faster, turtle you up and it won’t get faster, die and it won’t get faster either. It will be more difficult on each attempt you make or the desired outcome won’t be reached. In short, the map will stay as laughably easy as it is.

    If you cannot do that in the very own map you chose you won’t be able to appreciate the difficulty you have to set for yourself and of course you won’t be able to do it in general PvE facing all that players who can. It is them who make it too easy for you there as a result and you have to do something about it to feel engaged.
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
    Bring it on
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,352 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    With level 65, they've seemed to make (possibly accidentally) enemy damage, especially kinetic, scaling extra tough, to the point where already heavy-hitting enemies have the possibility to kill you 5x over with the same torpedo shot. Warp Core breaches are also doing ridiculously high damage that's more than capable of one-shotting you. And it seems enemy Feedback Pulse has also gotten heavy increase to its numbers.

    I will say, the NPC's can still surprise us sometimes. I played Starbase 1 Advanced last night a few times. I don't generally struggle with this map and, without meaning to sound boastful, have become quite adept at bunching up large groups of Klingon ships in GWIII and treating them to TSIII, Subspace Vortex and the Delphic tear console; the BoP's don't tend to survive it.

    However, I did this in this one particular instance and just as was getting into position to fire off the Delphic console was hit by a HY Tricolbalt torpedo from a Klingon Cleave ship that immediately took my hull down to 9%.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,210 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    reyan01 wrote: »
    without meaning to sound boastful

    MisguidedAbsoluteFallowdeer-size_restricted.gif

    Yuss! >:)
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
    Bring it on
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,352 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    without meaning to sound boastful

    MisguidedAbsoluteFallowdeer-size_restricted.gif

    Yuss! >:)

    :D

    To be fair, one point on this: Only on Advanced. I'm still no Elite level player - just someone who has become a little more competent at Advanced content than I used to be.

  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,742 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I will say, the NPC's can still surprise us sometimes. I played Starbase 1 Advanced last night a few times. I don't generally struggle with this map and, without meaning to sound boastful, have become quite adept at bunching up large groups of Klingon ships in GWIII and treating them to TSIII, Subspace Vortex and the Delphic tear console; the BoP's don't tend to survive it.

    I love players like you in SB1. :smiley:

    I follow them around, wait for them to pull everything into a gravity well then I just park and unload my cannons. Also keeps enemies away from the evacuation shuttles so that's another plus.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,210 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    reyan01 wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    without meaning to sound boastful

    MisguidedAbsoluteFallowdeer-size_restricted.gif

    Yuss! >:)

    :D

    To be fair, one point on this: Only on Advanced. I'm still no Elite level player - just someone who has become a little more competent at Advanced content than I used to be.

    Hey mate it does not matter. What I respect most about you is that you never boast. It is perfectly alright to take pride in your accomplishments but good players or even “good DPSer” do not boast or use their advantage in knowledge, piloting experience or gear to make them look better than others. They just help were they can.

    As for our EPG/torp build I found it the most difficult playstyle to master so far; especially compared to the fast DPS that cannons can pull. Still I found the impact they have on PvE for you *and* your team more than satisfactory and fun.

    Glad we walked that path together in the academy section and if you like we can expand on it and share what we find as time goes by. :)

    I follow them around, wait for them to pull everything into a gravity well then I just park and unload my cannons. Also keeps enemies away from the evacuation shuttles so that's another plus.

    *shakes fist* :D
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
    Bring it on
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,352 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    without meaning to sound boastful

    MisguidedAbsoluteFallowdeer-size_restricted.gif

    Yuss! >:)

    :D

    To be fair, one point on this: Only on Advanced. I'm still no Elite level player - just someone who has become a little more competent at Advanced content than I used to be.

    Hey mate it does not matter. What I respect most about you is that you never boast. It is perfectly alright to take pride in your accomplishments but good players or even “good DPSer” do not boast or use their advantage in knowledge, piloting experience or gear to make them look better than others. They just help were they can.

    As for our EPG/torp build I found it the most difficult playstyle to master so far; especially compared to the fast DPS that cannons can pull. Still I found the impact they have on PvE for you *and* your team more than satisfactory and fun.

    Glad we walked that path together in the academy section and if you like we can expand on it and share what we find as time goes by. :)

    I follow them around, wait for them to pull everything into a gravity well then I just park and unload my cannons. Also keeps enemies away from the evacuation shuttles so that's another plus.

    *shakes fist* :D

    Well, going to confess a guilty pleasure here in that case.

    Have to admit, one thing I love doing, specifically in PuGs, is 'rescuing' the larger ships when I can. If I see something like a Vengence Dreadnought or Scimitar getting it's backside handed to it I love zipping over and throwing them some heals. They may or may not appreciate it, but nonetheless I love the fact that my little FT5-U Rhode Island saved something like a Vengence from exploding.
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,249 Arc User
    > @reyan01 said:
    > peterconnorfirst wrote: »
    >
    > reyan01 wrote: »
    >
    > peterconnorfirst wrote: »
    >
    > reyan01 wrote: »
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    > without meaning to sound boastful
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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    > Yuss! >:)
    >
    >
    >
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    > :D
    >
    > To be fair, one point on this: Only on Advanced. I'm still no Elite level player - just someone who has become a little more competent at Advanced content than I used to be.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Hey mate it does not matter. What I respect most about you is that you never boast. It is perfectly alright to take pride in your accomplishments but good players or even “good DPSer” do not boast or use their advantage in knowledge, piloting experience or gear to make them look better than others. They just help were they can.
    >
    > As for our EPG/torp build I found it the most difficult playstyle to master so far; especially compared to the fast DPS that cannons can pull. Still I found the impact they have on PvE for you *and* your team more than satisfactory and fun.
    >
    > Glad we walked that path together in the academy section and if you like we can expand on it and share what we find as time goes by. :)
    > seaofsorrows wrote: »
    >
    >
    > I follow them around, wait for them to pull everything into a gravity well then I just park and unload my cannons. Also keeps enemies away from the evacuation shuttles so that's another plus.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > *shakes fist* :D
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Well, going to confess a guilty pleasure here in that case.
    >
    > Have to admit, one thing I love doing, specifically in PuGs, is 'rescuing' the larger ships when I can. If I see something like a Vengence Dreadnought or Scimitar getting it's backside handed to it I love zipping over and throwing them some heals. They may or may not appreciate it, but nonetheless I love the fact that my little FT5-U Rhode Island saved something like a Vengence from exploding.

    I actually had a duel with a mk 15 gold Vengeance vs my older mk 12 Esquiline.

    I handed the Vengance his tail. Repeatedly. It's always gunny to me when someone thinks they have the biggest and baddest around and then a science ship waltzes in and smacks it around like it's nothing.
    afMSv4g.jpg
    Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!

    http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
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