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Has something changed in space combat?

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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User


    QFT. The enemy damage output in elite is mostly fine, however the problem is those times when the enemies decide to spike, horribly high. No ship in game can withstand a TS of 6 torps, each dealing 100k post-res dmg through shields, without the help of either immunities or something like Invincible. Same with WCBs doing 200k through shields, each. A dedicated healer can't react to those spikes either. It's especially bad in places like HSE's phase 2 where apparently aggro doesn't matter too much, no matter how much tank tries. I've seen some unfortunate cases of extremely high-end teams getting wiped against fights with pickles, as they decided that it's right time to attack everyone *but* the tank, and to add extra insult to injury, they pop FBP at that time too.

    Hm yea, I have been curious about that HSE stage 2 too. :/

    Do the unships use torpedo spreads as well which not only hit the tank but others in team at the same time? You know much like we do with the player’s spread reaching multiple targets.

    What do your more pro (than I am) tank friends think here, matter of fact aggro catching problem or more like nasty simultaneous attacks? :(
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Well, I play all my solo missions on Elite. Maybe that's were the difference in perception and expectation comes from.

    I don‘t think so as I play my solo mission on elite as well. That’s part of the problem. Story missions set to elite are nothing compared to a TFO played on elite. They dont prepare for anything just hand out a bit more XP for killing stuff.

    How do you play a TFO on elite? There is only a selection for normal or advanced. Unless you mean just the normal queue system and not the random TFO.
    well they're all called TFOs and yes it's queueing for a specific TFO, as I've done those with Pete several times.

  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    [...]Story missions set to elite are nothing compared to a TFO played on elite. They dont prepare for anything just hand out a bit more XP for killing stuff.

    That's an interesting claim. Could you elaborate? Elite queues pop too rarely for me to even attempt it any more, so specific numbers comparisons would be interesting.

    I mean, it's a tangent to this thread, but certainly a relevant one.

    Story missions do not have critical completion timer and given the absurd means to turtle up almost indefinitely everybody will end up beating them eventually.

    Spaces TFO’s have fail timer build in on purpose to hinder weak players to beat that content. As a result you need to bring a well-balanced but DPS centric build to cope with the mission.

    Too bad you have no chance to play elite PvE. Try to socialize and make some friends to play them with. Pugs for space pop rarely as past experience has shown that too many line up for it who don’t cut it and those who do can’t be bothered to help too often in light of the lousy rewards and risk to waste your time.
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Well, I play all my solo missions on Elite. Maybe that's were the difference in perception and expectation comes from.

    I don‘t think so as I play my solo mission on elite as well. That’s part of the problem. Story missions set to elite are nothing compared to a TFO played on elite. They dont prepare for anything just hand out a bit more XP for killing stuff.

    How do you play a TFO on elite? There is only a selection for normal or advanced. Unless you mean just the normal queue system and not the random TFO.

    Yea ment regular way to line up for it, not random.
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    spiritborn wrote: »
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Well, I play all my solo missions on Elite. Maybe that's were the difference in perception and expectation comes from.

    I don‘t think so as I play my solo mission on elite as well. That’s part of the problem. Story missions set to elite are nothing compared to a TFO played on elite. They dont prepare for anything just hand out a bit more XP for killing stuff.

    How do you play a TFO on elite? There is only a selection for normal or advanced. Unless you mean just the normal queue system and not the random TFO.
    well they're all called TFOs and yes it's queueing for a specific TFO, as I've done those with Pete several times.


    Thank you Shim yea. Heh, I also have trouble with the new names still. :)

    TFO = old queue (with the borg maps being STF) and the option to go for elite on those maps available
    RTFO = random old queue without the option to go for it on elite
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    What do your more pro (than I am) tank friends think here, matter of fact aggro catching problem or more like nasty simultaneous attacks? :(

    As much as I've observed, it's a matter of both, with probably more emphasis on latter. They use Torp Spread quite extensively so the damage gets spread around a lot, and as established, the torps NPCs throw out can hit damn hard. However, I've also noticed the pickles targeting more randomly, and tanks having harder time keeping enemy fire on themselves than Phase 1.
    And I'll see if I can get some of my tank friends to comment here. :D
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    It is weird, but apparently, the type of people who like to play TFO's on Elite somehow don't seem all that likeable. I wonder where I got that impression.

    Maybe if you stopped attacking them and their play style they would treat you better. Not that's been all your fault of course, but the blame is definitely not all on one side. :wink:

    I hope you end up with SRS or someone you can play Elites with, maybe you'll find it enjoyable and start to understand how it's so much more then just equipping high end gear and immediately winning with no skill involved. You might even find a new avenue of enjoyment when playing STO which is always a good thing.

    For what it's worth, I would like to see that just so some of us could establish a common ground with you and maybe even lead to some more respectful exchanges in the future.

    Despite it all, I wish you luck.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    sophlogimo wrote: »

    It is weird, but apparently, the type of people who like to play TFO's on Elite somehow don't seem all that likeable. In wonder where I got that impression.

    ...

    I have a real life with kids and all, so I have that anyway. ;)

    I wonder where you get that impression as well but can assure it’s not about wives, friends, kids and jobs. Why? Because they are the ones that make us become good at what we do and tend to our hobby as effectively as our RL obligations and alternatives for recreation permit.

    I suspect in your case that impression is rather closely attached to the classic scrub mentality. Come up with reasons not to force you on any kind of competitive plain, change the rules in easy content because other are so much better, become king of solo stuff in an mmorpg and now, to reach a new low, excuse it with your RL. Heh, it takes me like 20 minutes a day on an average in this game to progress a character to top and stay there. Whatever; don’t let me stop you. If you are happy in game with what you do I’m happy for you. Unfortunately, every topic you bring up in these forums makes it look like you are not.

    I cross my fingers that @mattjohnsonva can help you to do some good in STO. Given his PvE reputation and dedication to manage fleets you are in good hands there. Don't let your "RL" TRIBBLE this up. ;)
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    What do your more pro (than I am) tank friends think here, matter of fact aggro catching problem or more like nasty simultaneous attacks? :(

    As much as I've observed, it's a matter of both, with probably more emphasis on latter. They use Torp Spread quite extensively so the damage gets spread around a lot, and as established, the torps NPCs throw out can hit damn hard. However, I've also noticed the pickles targeting more randomly, and tanks having harder time keeping enemy fire on themselves than Phase 1.
    And I'll see if I can get some of my tank friends to comment here. :D

    Thanks for reply and most appreciated. My observation concur here just would like to understand better what is going on in Stage 2. With the league we just blast the uniships mega fast, sometimes b4 they even pull much. When I play as a tank I begin to feel a bit useless by the end of Stage 1 in almost every team atm. :/
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    You do realize that such snarky comments will do everything in your best ability to reinforce that impression, right?

    This is how you responded to a comment where I took a share of the blame for the disconnect between us? Agreeing that I was also in the wrong is 'snarky?'

    So, let me just try to wrap my mind around what you apparently believe. You encounter a guy who repeatedly sais the game is broken for making certain combinations of gear (and I count starship traits as gear, because they are) so powerful that they make the game too easy, and you somehow conclude that that guy cannot possibly be interested in things OTHER than gear?

    Hence why I hope to see you take the invite. The criticism you have of these abilities is that you feel they make the game 'too easy,' but these things are far more of a necessity in more difficult combat. This is something I don't believe you understand because you don't play this content. We aren't optimizing our builds and doing all this math so that we can handle normal or advanced content, we're doing it and then going after the hardest content we can find. Something I don't believe you understand because you don't play the content we do. Maybe a few runs though Korfez, Dranuur, or even Hive Space on Elite will make our plight a little easier to understand.

    Keep taking shots at me if it makes you feel better, I don't expect that to ever change. None the less, I maintain my hope that expanding your horizons also expands your understanding of 'the other half.' I know you say you have nothing against the 'DPS Playstyle' and I am telling you that it sure doesn't feel that way.

    Even your very last statement 'you somehow conclude that that guy cannot possibly be interested in things OTHER than gear?' implies that we don't care about tactics and only survive on gear. You can say you don't have a problem with 'DPS play style' but everything you have said up to this point implies that all we're doing is stacking gear and not using any skill at all. Hopefully a few runs through some Elite Content will show you otherwise.

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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    You say this..
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Elite queues pop too rarely for me to even attempt it any more,

    And then you say this..
    sophlogimo wrote: »

    Yeah, I know for a fact from my own playing that they are not. You do not need more than 30k dps for anything out there.

    And that's where you prove that too much firepower kills the thinking.


    So first you don't play Elite Queues, now you do.. convenient.

    Either way, I take full responsbility for this exchange. I attempted to be civil to you and that was 100% my fault. I assure you, I won't make that mistake again.

    It's clear that you're nothing but a shortsided child looking to do nothing but attack anyone on the forum who doesn't 100% agree with you. You're a scrub, a 'forumite,' and just an overall worthless waste of time.

    SRS would be best served rescinding the invite, you don't have the balls to accept it anyway. You have nothing to offer anyone but an arrogant prick who needs to be carried.
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    @sophlogimo How can you say gear etc makes the game too easy unless you are up there in that top end group and have justification to make such a statement? Are you regularly playing elite missions and thinking "Jesus this game is way to easy, look how fast i vaped that Tac Cube"?

    Whilst I won't ever be up to the level of @peterconnorfirst or @tunebreaker (though i have run with them in elites many times) I find those elite missions a bloody nightmare of constant deaths and ineffective firepower so they are definitely not to easy.
    I've got top end gear, expensive traits and ultra-rare promo ships to use as well so by your theory I should find the game a walk in the park and be as OP as that which you complain about. But I don't, and do you know why?......Because piloting and ability timing and ship positioning and running with the right team are all even more important than the gear i'm using.
    Sure give me $500 and i could slap together the most uber-gold epic geared ship ever but i'd still suck at flying it and probably be an embarrassment to the team.

    Stop trying to claim the game is to easy just because someone posted a video that shows a top end run by tow of THE BEST players in the game's history. How many runs do you think went terribly wrong before they got that amazing one in the video?
    There are aspects of the game that are easy, a lot of the advanced queues are too simple and generally the game is too one-sided in that there's little more than a shallow pew-pew experience to pass any content. But there are areas where challenge can be had, though admittedly not perfect situations either.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    I haven't noticed anything different. And warp core breaches are supposed to one-shot you, it's canon.
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Kinetic damage has been scaled way up since VIL Torpedo's/Tractor Beams/Tractor Beam Repulsor and feedback pulse can be instant death in a ship with hull below 75k.

    In counterpoint i've been caught in New Orleans with a Tractor Beam and without APO or Polarize hull it was respawn time
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    sophlogimo wrote: »

    And besides, you haven't even tried to address how supposedly a DPS in excess of 100k was a "requirement", as you previously claimed.

    Show me that quote.. I can't address something I didn't say.

    There are some queues that require a high team DPS requirement, but unless you give me a specific, I don't know what you're talking about.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Kinetic damage has been scaled way up since VIL Torpedo's/Tractor Beams/Tractor Beam Repulsor and feedback pulse can be instant death in a ship with hull below 75k.

    In counterpoint i've been caught in New Orleans with a Tractor Beam and without APO or Polarize hull it was respawn time

    I thought they fixed the Kinetic Damage scaling though didn't they?

    I remember at one point I was getting one shotted in Tholian Red Alerts on a fairly regular basis. I even posted some of the ridiculous damage numbers they were hitting me with (it was in the Millions.) They addressed it in a patch several months ago and I haven't noticed it since.

    The only thing that still gets me from time to time is the Warp Core breaches, but I have just come to accept that as a danger of space combat. Feedback Pulse also gets me from time to time.. I suck at avoiding those. :smiley:
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »

    Yeah, I know for a fact from my own playing that they are not. You do not need more than 30k dps for anything out there.

    And that's where you prove that too much firepower kills the thinking.

    Is 30k the number you have chosen as a fact because it sits well with your family obligations or do you have any in game basis for this?
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    sophlogimo wrote: »

    And besides, you haven't even tried to address how supposedly a DPS in excess of 100k was a "requirement", as you previously claimed.

    Show me that quote.

    Well, okay...
    [...] but these things are far more of a necessity in more difficult combat. [...]

    Nope, try again. That quote is not what you claim I said about a queue requiring 100k to complete.

    I know it's hard to provide proof when you just made something up out of thin air.. so I'll just assume you'll never find it.

    I'll go ahead and address that specific quote though that higher level gear, traits and equipment are needed for harder combat. Not only do I stand by it, but I'll gladly repeat it any time.

    It would also seem that Cryptic agrees with that statement specifically where they define the content..
    Warning: The new Elite mode is far and away the hardest content we have put into Star Trek Online. We expect you to not just be outfitted in great gear, but have become proficient in the Normal and Advanced versions of the events as well. You should be a master of your character and your ship, as well as knowing what your teammates are capable of doing. You should also know what to expect from the enemy you will be fighting as well.

    The fact that you don't think that higher level gear is needed for Elites just goes to further prove that you don't play this content and have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe if you end up taking the invite from SRS you can get a little sample of what that means while 4 competent players carry you through some of it.
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