Has something changed in space combat?

lexusk19 · November 2018

I have noticed over the past couple weeks that my ships are super squishy and seem to be hitting less hard. I have had to go in and alter all my builds to get more survivability, but even with the changes im still very squishy. Did Cryptic change something?

bendalek · November 2018

That's a very situational question. I believe Cryptic may have updated some of the "scaling" mechanics, so that some missions, and TFO's now scale differently depending on your level or the teams level.

Also many more of the enemies now have "special" abilities as well as offence specific buffs and unusual defensive buff's. It's a much steeper learning curve @lvl 65 to get to understand the enemies.

avoozuul · November 2018

I seem to be finding the same problem.

tunebreaker · November 2018

With level 65, they've seemed to make (possibly accidentally) enemy damage, especially kinetic, scaling extra tough, to the point where already heavy-hitting enemies have the possibility to kill you 5x over with the same torpedo shot. Warp Core breaches are also doing ridiculously high damage that's more than capable of one-shotting you. And it seems enemy Feedback Pulse has also gotten heavy increase to its numbers.

Sure, I have no problems with enemies being tough, but it's imo not a good gameplay when the only possibility of survival is hitting an immunity, as otherwise you'll be subject to the damage that's 5x higher than your HP (after resistances, mind you) in a matter of half a second.

I'd complain more, but the game is in an incredibly sad state atm, so I'd rather see them focusing on more crucial bugfixes and only then try to find out why the enemies have so many possibilities to one-shot you.

seaofsorrows · November 2018

tunebreaker wrote: »

Warp Core breaches are also doing ridiculously high damage that's more than capable of one-shotting you.

Warp core breaches are insane. Pretty much the only thing that kills me anymore, by far the most dangerous thing in the game at the current time.

qqqqii · November 2018

sophlogimo wrote: »

Haven't noticed anything consciously, no. But if it's true, all the better! Will make the game a lot more interesting on the long run.

If I wanted to get one-shot by a single photon torpedo, I'd go looking for it in an Elite queue... not a "normal", where it happened, repeatedly. If you want that level of "challenge", that's where you go. Making the game even more aggravating than it already is, with it's long list of recurring bugs, including scaling issues, doesn't make the game more interesting, just broken.

spiritborn · November 2018

qqqqii wrote: »

sophlogimo wrote: »

Haven't noticed anything consciously, no. But if it's true, all the better! Will make the game a lot more interesting on the long run.

If I wanted to get one-shot by a single photon torpedo, I'd go looking for it in an Elite queue... not a "normal", where it happened, repeatedly. If you want that level of "challenge", that's where you go. Making the game even more aggravating than it already is, with it's long list of recurring bugs, including scaling issues, doesn't make the game more interesting, just broken.

Never had single photon 1 shot me in STO content, Torp abilities like "torp volley" or "torp high yield" sure but never a single base torp, not even on my reman or klingon character who run raiders and yes I've ran elite content with those, fairly recently too.

peterconnorfirst · November 2018

qqqqii wrote: »

sophlogimo wrote: »

Haven't noticed anything consciously, no. But if it's true, all the better! Will make the game a lot more interesting on the long run.

If I wanted to get one-shot by a single photon torpedo, I'd go looking for it in an Elite queue... not a "normal", where it happened, repeatedly. If you want that level of "challenge", that's where you go. Making the game even more aggravating than it already is, with it's long list of recurring bugs, including scaling issues, doesn't make the game more interesting, just broken.

Hallelujah what a great reply to him! Thank you.

salazarraze · November 2018

lexusk19 wrote: »

I have noticed over the past couple weeks that my ships are super squishy and seem to be hitting less hard. I have had to go in and alter all my builds to get more survivability, but even with the changes im still very squishy. Did Cryptic change something?

Are you noticing this in story missions, random queues or something else? In a random advanced queue, you're probably getting grouped with more ill equipped players than you were before. This will have an effect on your performance both offensively and defensively. In normal story missions, I have only noticed a difference since Level 65 was introduced but that was a while ago now.

seaofsorrows · November 2018

azrael605 wrote: »

I run Pilot spec & with Scratch the Paint I haven't noticed at all.

I do this as well, it helps with the first breach, but then you're vulnerable again for 60 seconds.

Not sure how anyone that actually does combat can 'not notice' how much damage warp core breaches do, but I am guessing you mostly run beams and attack from fairly far away. When you're in close using cannons however, it's very different.. after you pop your enemy you either get outta there immediately or you're dead.

It's far less of a problem on my beam builds where I am always moving, but on other builds where I am in close or tend to 'park' Warp Core breaches are the single biggest threat in the game by far.

peterconnorfirst · November 2018

sophlogimo wrote: »

seaofsorrows wrote: »

[...]

It's far less of a problem on my beam builds where I am always moving, but on other builds where I am in close or tend to 'park' Warp Core breaches are the single biggest threat in the game by far. [...]

Well, there is an obvious solution for that: Keep your distance from your targets. Which is just as viable with cannons as with beams.

LRTS bug has been fixed so another obvious solution if somebody wants to keep on being bad.

Alternative would be to stay as close as you can to targets for as long as 3 are kept in your arc under CSV and hit brace for impact when some core breach happens too close to you. Like usual we also have some cool pay out options available giving you the kin/phys resist you might need to survive it without thinking too much about it. In the end its practise, nothing more and Sea is doing a great job when it comes to that.

seaofsorrows · November 2018

sophlogimo wrote: »

Well, there is an obvious solution for that: Keep your distance from your targets. Which is just as viable with cannons as with beams.

The point was that Warp Core Breach damage is currently too high. I adapted my play style to this fact long ago and have plenty of ways of mitigating the broken level of damage they potentially inflict.

If I did need help dealing with it, you would be the last person I would ask.

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

LRTS bug has been fixed so another obvious solution if somebody wants to keep on being bad.

Alternative would be to stay as close as you can to targets for as long as 3 are kept in your arc under CSV and hit brace for impact when some core breach happens too close to you. Like usual we also have some cool pay out options available giving you the kin/phys resist you might need to survive it without thinking too much about it. In the end its practise, nothing more and Sea is doing a great job when it comes to that.

Glad someone gets it. Thanks!

tunebreaker · November 2018

qqqqii wrote: »

sophlogimo wrote: »

Haven't noticed anything consciously, no. But if it's true, all the better! Will make the game a lot more interesting on the long run.

If I wanted to get one-shot by a single photon torpedo, I'd go looking for it in an Elite queue... not a "normal", where it happened, repeatedly. If you want that level of "challenge", that's where you go. Making the game even more aggravating than it already is, with it's long list of recurring bugs, including scaling issues, doesn't make the game more interesting, just broken.

QFT. The enemy damage output in elite is mostly fine, however the problem is those times when the enemies decide to spike, horribly high. No ship in game can withstand a TS of 6 torps, each dealing 100k post-res dmg through shields, without the help of either immunities or something like Invincible. Same with WCBs doing 200k through shields, each. A dedicated healer can't react to those spikes either. It's especially bad in places like HSE's phase 2 where apparently aggro doesn't matter too much, no matter how much tank tries. I've seen some unfortunate cases of extremely high-end teams getting wiped against fights with pickles, as they decided that it's right time to attack everyone *but* the tank, and to add extra insult to injury, they pop FBP at that time too.

Speaking of FBP - I get it, it's there for awareness and it doesn't simply let the DPSers mash carelessly spacebar all the time. But the levels atm are just ridiculous - we have ships geared to do damage to targets that have 100x higher HP than players, and then that damage gets reflected back to us 3x stronger (in case of Borg Queen in HSE). Average response time of a good sci player with Subnucleonic Beam is 1-2s, but it's in many cases still not enough, as you can very well kill yourself before that. It doesn't help that the weapons don't stop shooting before the firing cycle has ended even if you click away, nor is there any option in game to force your weapons to stop.

Being an avid HSE player, I've noticed since ViL that success in my runs (especially during phase 2) have become more and more dependent on dumb luck and less on actual team composition and player skill. Again, imo, that's a display of bad game design.

peterconnorfirst · November 2018

sophlogimo wrote: »

seaofsorrows wrote: »

sophlogimo wrote: »

Well, there is an obvious solution for that: Keep your distance from your targets. Which is just as viable with cannons as with beams.

The point was that Warp Core Breach damage is currently too high. I adapted my play style to this fact long ago and have plenty of ways of mitigating the broken level of damage they potentially inflict.

If I did need help dealing with it, you would be the last person I would ask.

Well, then why do you complain? Antimatter explosions are supposed to be dangerous. That's physics.

Because the game keeps on changing the rules without anybody asking for it but scrubs. Players learn and put effort to play well by a year’s old established ruleset A and are required to adjust because it gets exchanged by ruleset B that somebody who does not cut it anyway requests.

peterconnorfirst · November 2018

sophlogimo wrote: »

It is a bit amusing how the general expectation of some people seems to be that a combat game isn't about, well, combat. That is, both sides being somewhat dangerous to the other.

Yea I'm amused to be sure as you again expect combat on advanced difficulty.

peterconnorfirst · November 2018

sophlogimo wrote: »

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

sophlogimo wrote: »

It is a bit amusing how the general expectation of some people seems to be that a combat game isn't about, well, combat. That is, both sides being somewhat dangerous to the other.

Yea I'm amused to be sure as you again expect combat on advanced difficulty.

I even expect it on Normal. Because, well, it's a comat game.

Sure thing! Keep on swimming in a footbath. Perhaps you move on to the open sea some day in the far future.

peterconnorfirst · November 2018

sophlogimo wrote: »

Well, I play all my solo missions on Elite. Maybe that's were the difference in perception and expectation comes from.

I don‘t think so as I play my solo mission on elite as well. That’s part of the problem. Story missions set to elite are nothing compared to a TFO played on elite. They dont prepare for anything just hand out a bit more XP for killing stuff.

lordsteve1 · November 2018

tunebreaker wrote: »

qqqqii wrote: »

sophlogimo wrote: »

Haven't noticed anything consciously, no. But if it's true, all the better! Will make the game a lot more interesting on the long run.

If I wanted to get one-shot by a single photon torpedo, I'd go looking for it in an Elite queue... not a "normal", where it happened, repeatedly. If you want that level of "challenge", that's where you go. Making the game even more aggravating than it already is, with it's long list of recurring bugs, including scaling issues, doesn't make the game more interesting, just broken.

QFT. The enemy damage output in elite is mostly fine, however the problem is those times when the enemies decide to spike, horribly high. No ship in game can withstand a TS of 6 torps, each dealing 100k post-res dmg through shields, without the help of either immunities or something like Invincible. Same with WCBs doing 200k through shields, each. A dedicated healer can't react to those spikes either. It's especially bad in places like HSE's phase 2 where apparently aggro doesn't matter too much, no matter how much tank tries. I've seen some unfortunate cases of extremely high-end teams getting wiped against fights with pickles, as they decided that it's right time to attack everyone *but* the tank, and to add extra insult to injury, they pop FBP at that time too.

Speaking of FBP - I get it, it's there for awareness and it doesn't simply let the DPSers mash carelessly spacebar all the time. But the levels atm are just ridiculous - we have ships geared to do damage to targets that have 100x higher HP than players, and then that damage gets reflected back to us 3x stronger (in case of Borg Queen in HSE). Average response time of a good sci player with Subnucleonic Beam is 1-2s, but it's in many cases still not enough, as you can very well kill yourself before that. It doesn't help that the weapons don't stop shooting before the firing cycle has ended even if you click away, nor is there any option in game to force your weapons to stop.

Being an avid HSE player, I've noticed since ViL that success in my runs (especially during phase 2) have become more and more dependent on dumb luck and less on actual team composition and player skill. Again, imo, that's a display of bad game design.

I have to agree with you on the spike damage issue. I can normally survive most incoming damage outside of getting flattened in HSE, but the torp spreads from many enemies these days are insane.
Tzenkethi tetryon torps can easily remove all your shields at once AND vapourise your hull. Same with the Borg and their normal plasma torps (not even the invisible hyper-plasma ones)
Core breaches as well are off the freaking charts, compared to what people are used to. Normally Brace for Impact and a quick use of a heal would get you through one unless right on top of it; now you can be killed from several km's away.

And the biggest issue I have with all this overpowered damage is that it often is so fast you can't possibly respond, or it's not even rendering in the game world because all the other crappy visual spam takes priority for some reason so you can't see it coming.

Adding HUGE numbers to NPC's, be it stupidly high HP's or insane damage output does not a challenging game make.

Has something changed in space combat?

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