I don't post much but have been reading the forums constantly since I started playing, just after the game went F2P. As someone who has experience in the past with game customer relations I saw a response template posted once about another game, Secret World I think by someone else with such experience... anyway as a solid to the CMs who will have to deal with this debacle I went ahead and filled out some of it for you:
To our valued Star Trek Online community,
We are sorry for the problems associated with the new Random Task Force Operations system. Unfortunately, we are unable to immediately address your concerns due to working on the next content update, that The players will Love™. But we have been listening, and we’re going to take the following steps to rectify the situation:
{LIST OF MINIMAL CONCESSIONS MANAGEMENT AND ACCOUNTING WILL ALLOW}
We understand this won’t solve everyone’s grievances, but we believe it’s the best solution for the community as a whole because of {MORE BULLCRAP REASONS, POSSIBLY IN LIST FORM}. That said, we also realize that the TFO system problems could have been avoided if we had:
Added the ability for players to select Random Space TFOs, Random Ground TFOs, or Random ANY TFOs, instead of forcing players into TFO types they aren't properly equipped for or particularly dislike
Added the ability to queue for a Random TFO with pre-made teams
Added the ability for players to remove TFOs they particularly dislike from their Random TFO list
Standardized rewards based on player performance and mission time/difficulty, rather then allowing the RNG to pick rewards er randomly; as well as a wider variety of rewards
Put more effort into improving the older STF mission queues instead of wasting time with a poorly thought out PR stunt by simply renaming the same content to TFO
Not used the most hated character in the game, Kurland, as the TFO system's mascot
Actually listened to the community feedback we asked for instead of ignoring it and doing what we felt like doing anyway.
Moving forward, we’re going to take the following steps to ensure this does not happen again:
{LIST OF THINGS YOU DON’T REALLY PLAN ON DOING, BUT WILL MAKE THE PLAYER BASE FEEL LIKE THEY’RE BEING HEARD; REFER TO ABOVE LIST FOR IDEAS ON POTENTIAL ACTION ITEMS}
We’re once again deeply sorry for the trouble. You’re all deeply valued members of the Cryptic and Perfectworld families, and we’re going to do our best to keep your relationship with us strong, now and in the future.
{Name of whichever CM/DEV gets assigned to do PR cleanup on this trainwreck}
ok i have request then. since its already hard to remember to switch your specialization combination for ground or space, then i would request for addition of automated, configurable space/ground sets, that would activate.....um..... automaticaly.
i like the idea of randomness but how can you pre-set yourself for a mission if you dont know what it will be?
OR, simply allow us to switch those out of combat in mission.... that woul be simplier to do i guess.
Just read Kael's OP and this is supposed to come out with AoD? So, basically the foundation of the system is already done given that that expansion will be coming in two to two and a half months at the very most. Maybe as little as one.
And you're only now, this late, asking for feedback? And it never once in development occurred to you that there's be a serious problem with people not being able to know if they should go ground spec or space spec?
Guys, given that they have less than two months I doubt we're going to see anything workable about being able to have two specs - one for ground and one for space - at the same time, at launch. Not if they want to do even basic testing of it first.
Excellent point. This asking for feedback bit might be staged theater, as much if not more, compared to genuine concern in any bettering of STO. I still think this type of mechanic has potential, but there's no need to exclude, if it does, selecting a particular queue a player might want as it is now just have this in addition as an option.
ok i have request then. since its already hard to remember to switch your specialization combination for ground or space, then i would request for addition of automated, configurable space/ground sets, that would activate.....um..... automaticaly.
i like the idea of randomness but how can you pre-set yourself for a mission if you dont know what it will be?
OR, simply allow us to switch those out of combat in mission.... that woul be simplier to do i guess.
How about you spec a healthy mix of both or choose one of the combi-specs? Part of not knowing what you face is, well, NOT KNOWING WHAT YOU FACE. pre-setting yourself defeats the purpose of that. If you are uncomfortable with that, don't queue randomly.
Also, a spec doesn't make or creak a build. Don't act like it's mandatory.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Hey Folks. Just wanted to pop in for a quick response, summarizing some of the feedback thus far.
First, I'll quote myself from Twitter here:
Including both Ground+Space is absolutely intentional, and exceedingly unlikely to be altered. But addressing Build/Spec concerns that stem from this choice is definitely on my list for further review.
Why?!
Bad enough that some ground stuff can't be skipped when going through the story lines *looks at the grave-robbing kobali scumbags*, but to force us to play queues that we don't like, if we want to take part in your new queue system... Why not just tell us we have a choice of **** sandwich with or without the bread?
The ground content is dire at best, to try and force it won't make it any more palatable, it'll just make your new queue system undesirable.
And let's not mince words here, despite changing it to have some fancy title, a queue is still a queue.
you people do know that the Random Queue is optional right?
the current system will still be in place. you will STILL be able to choose which queues you want to join just like you can now.
The whole Random thing is something you can choose to do if you don't care which TFO you join and get extra Rewards for doing so.
No one is forcing you to use this system.
They are rewarding use of Random System because it will get people in TFOs that normally never launch.
If they gave us the ability to choose, most people would just choose the SAME TFOs that normally start anyways.
This would sorta defeat the purpose.
I'm sure that is why Borticus stated they intended to keep it random with space and ground included.
as for the name thing, it's just rebranding.
happens all the time in advertising. not a big deal.
in theory, it makes something old look new and exciting to draw attention to it.
judging by the above posts, it sorta worked...sorta
you people do know that the Random Queue is optional right?
the current system will still be in place. you will STILL be able to choose which queues you want to join just like you can now.
The whole Random thing is something you can choose to do if you don't care which TFO you join and get extra Rewards for doing so.
No one is forcing you to use this system.
They are rewarding use of Random System because it will get people in TFOs that normally never launch.
If they gave us the ability to choose, most people would just choose the SAME TFOs that normally start anyways.
This would sorta defeat the purpose.
I'm sure that is why Borticus stated they intended to keep it random with space and ground included.
as for the name thing, it's just rebranding.
happens all the time in advertising. not a big deal.
in theory, it makes something old look new and exciting to draw attention to it.
judging by the above posts, it sorta worked...sorta
It is not optional in that potentially it could have a large negative impact on those running normal queues with no way to avoid it. There is a good chance that the random STF is going to cause a higher fail rate in some queues for those using the normal queue method. This in turn might cause a drop in rewards and increase in player frustration along with worse player retention.
We are being forced to use the system as there is no option to completely avoid it when using the standard queue.
And as mentioned before: if for normal and advanced ground queues you need to change your specialization in order to participate at a reasonably competitive level, you probably need to work your build so the difference in specs no longer decides whether you're above or below threshold. By definition, you're on the line so look at your build in other areas such as equipment and module choice (which would help in any case survive the trials of the dreaded featured episode which blindside players with a fairly consistent mix of ground/space combat.)
Some specs specifically pertain to CDM. If your CDM doesn't work, your entire build is completely nonfunctional as none of your buttons work when they're supposed to. At that point the only thing you can do is ram your ship into the nearest opponent and hump his face until you die or go AFK, as none of your buttons function anymore.
How in Q's name do you make a build for normal/advanced queuing where suboptimal cooldowns cause your weapons and abilities to both stop working? Honestly I just can't see this happening except for top tier team sompek builds and only in restricted key moments (which taking into a random ground queue on normal/advanced is tantamount to a tactical nuclear strike for home gardening. Even if the precision guidance mechanism causes your build to drift off the mark, you still shouldn't have any problems clearing out the dandelions.)
I think you're mistaking maintaining max deeps with being able to effectively participated with, again, normal/advanced queues. If you have somehow made a build which is so temperamental that it only works [in basic, mechanical terms] within the narrow confines of a given set of specs, change the build to be less temperamental.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
And as mentioned before: if for normal and advanced ground queues you need to change your specialization in order to participate at a reasonably competitive level, you probably need to work your build so the difference in specs no longer decides whether you're above or below threshold. By definition, you're on the line so look at your build in other areas such as equipment and module choice (which would help in any case survive the trials of the dreaded featured episode which blindside players with a fairly consistent mix of ground/space combat.)
Some specs specifically pertain to CDM. If your CDM doesn't work, your entire build is completely nonfunctional as none of your buttons work when they're supposed to. At that point the only thing you can do is ram your ship into the nearest opponent and hump his face until you die or go AFK, as none of your buttons function anymore.
How in Q's name do you make a build for normal/advanced queuing where suboptimal cooldowns cause your weapons and abilities to both stop working? Honestly I just can't see this happening except for top tier team sompek builds and only in restricted key moments (which taking into a random ground queue on normal/advanced is tantamount to a tactical nuclear strike for home gardening. Even if the precision guidance mechanism causes your build to drift off the mark, you still shouldn't have any problems clearing out the dandelions.)
I think you're mistaking maintaining max deeps with being able to effectively participated with, again, normal/advanced queues. If you have somehow made a build which is so temperamental that it only works [in basic, mechanical terms] within the narrow confines of a given set of specs, change the build to be less temperamental.
It’s not about maintaining max deeps. Certain missions require you to take certain items and certain builds require you to take certain traits and spec options. This is fine for the standard queues but will cause problems with the random system.
What I use in The Breach is different to what I use for CE or Cure Applied. I don't want to land in CE while setup for a Breach or Cure Applied. I am more worried about randoms ending up in my runs with the wrong setup causing an increase in fails. Having a random space guy drop into Cure Applied advanced or Bug Hunt Elite without being prepared can and will at times ruin the run for those that use the standed queue system.
I don't post much but have been reading the forums constantly since I started playing, just after the game went F2P. As someone who has experience in the past with game customer relations I saw a response template posted once about another game, Secret World I think by someone else with such experience... anyway as a solid to the CMs who will have to deal with this debacle I went ahead and filled out some of it for you:
To our valued Star Trek Online community,
We are sorry for the problems associated with the new Random Task Force Operations system. Unfortunately, we are unable to immediately address your concerns due to working on the next content update, that The players will Love™. But we have been listening, and we’re going to take the following steps to rectify the situation:
{LIST OF MINIMAL CONCESSIONS MANAGEMENT AND ACCOUNTING WILL ALLOW}
We understand this won’t solve everyone’s grievances, but we believe it’s the best solution for the community as a whole because of {MORE BULLCRAP REASONS, POSSIBLY IN LIST FORM}. That said, we also realize that the TFO system problems could have been avoided if we had:
Added the ability for players to select Random Space TFOs, Random Ground TFOs, or Random ANY TFOs, instead of forcing players into TFO types they aren't properly equipped for or particularly dislike
Added the ability to queue for a Random TFO with pre-made teams
Added the ability for players to remove TFOs they particularly dislike from their Random TFO list
Standardized rewards based on player performance and mission time/difficulty, rather then allowing the RNG to pick rewards er randomly; as well as a wider variety of rewards
Put more effort into improving the older STF mission queues instead of wasting time with a poorly thought out PR stunt by simply renaming the same content to TFO
Not used the most hated character in the game, Kurland, as the TFO system's mascot
Actually listened to the community feedback we asked for instead of ignoring it and doing what we felt like doing anyway.
Moving forward, we’re going to take the following steps to ensure this does not happen again:
{LIST OF THINGS YOU DON’T REALLY PLAN ON DOING, BUT WILL MAKE THE PLAYER BASE FEEL LIKE THEY’RE BEING HEARD; REFER TO ABOVE LIST FOR IDEAS ON POTENTIAL ACTION ITEMS}
We’re once again deeply sorry for the trouble. You’re all deeply valued members of the Cryptic and Perfectworld families, and we’re going to do our best to keep your relationship with us strong, now and in the future.
{Name of whichever CM/DEV gets assigned to do PR cleanup on this trainwreck}
You're welcome.
WHY>>>WHY>>>WHY? Is this DR is the BEST expansion and players LOVE it all over again. RANDOM is a horrible idea and surely you don't want to make the same mistakes this game went through before it went F2P. I remember how many people used to complain about random not being fair and DStahl (Mr EP) cut if off for so much flaming in the forums. I guess all new players now accept it and devolve into a broken system all over again.
I believe this Random choice is expected to go hand in hand with the "streamlining of the Mission Journal".
I went on Tribble and looked through the missions....they added the queues into the Mission Journal as follows:
(This is KDF side...I don't think I ever did any missions with the Ferengi)
STORY ARC = TFO that was added to it.
EMPIRE = Romulan Imperial Minefield
ROMULAN MYSTERY = Azure Nebula Rescue
CARDASSIAN STRUGGLE = Assault on Terok Nor *or* Counterpoint
BORG ADVANCE = Infected *or* Cure *or* Khitomer Accord
NEW ROMULUS = Atmosphere Assault *or* Defending Rh'Ihho Station *or* Vault: Ensnared
SOLANAE DYSON SPHERE = Breach *or* Storming the Spire
DELTA QUADRANT = ????
Well, looks like I never did any missions during Delta Rising so "TFO: Delta Quadrant" is not unlocked for me. I can't accept the mission to see what queue missions they attached to that.
Since these queues will be unlocked as new characters follow the Mission Journal....more variety will pop up.
But then, doing missions with a mix of different skill, gear and levels of players....I don't know how that would go.
I think the Devs want people to mix it up and start meeting each other at a lower level??? Not sure what the goal is.
REMEMBER this is on TRIBBLE and subject to change.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
And as mentioned before: if for normal and advanced ground queues you need to change your specialization in order to participate at a reasonably competitive level, you probably need to work your build so the difference in specs no longer decides whether you're above or below threshold. By definition, you're on the line so look at your build in other areas such as equipment and module choice (which would help in any case survive the trials of the dreaded featured episode which blindside players with a fairly consistent mix of ground/space combat.)
Some specs specifically pertain to CDM. If your CDM doesn't work, your entire build is completely nonfunctional as none of your buttons work when they're supposed to. At that point the only thing you can do is ram your ship into the nearest opponent and hump his face until you die or go AFK, as none of your buttons function anymore.
How in Q's name do you make a build for normal/advanced queuing where suboptimal cooldowns cause your weapons and abilities to both stop working? Honestly I just can't see this happening except for top tier team sompek builds and only in restricted key moments (which taking into a random ground queue on normal/advanced is tantamount to a tactical nuclear strike for home gardening. Even if the precision guidance mechanism causes your build to drift off the mark, you still shouldn't have any problems clearing out the dandelions.)
I think you're mistaking maintaining max deeps with being able to effectively participated with, again, normal/advanced queues. If you have somehow made a build which is so temperamental that it only works [in basic, mechanical terms] within the narrow confines of a given set of specs, change the build to be less temperamental.
It’s not about maintaining max deeps. Certain missions require you to take certain items and certain builds require you to take certain traits and spec options. This is fine for the standard queues but will cause problems with the random system.
What I use in The Breach is different to what I use for CE or Cure Applied. I don't want to land in CE while setup for a Breach or Cure Applied. I am more worried about randoms ending up in my runs with the wrong setup causing an increase in fails. Having a random space guy drop into Cure Applied advanced or Bug Hunt Elite without being prepared can and will ruin the run for those that use the standed queue system.
Bug hunt elite being an elite queue should not have an issue with the new random queue system.
In anycase, they said that they may look into the whole ground vs space load out issue...which means we may get a full on space and ground loadout system out of this. Which would be a good thing. If you need a specific set up for each queue and not just ground and space...you may just want to use the normal queue system as most people should have no problem with that if they make a full seperate ground and space loadout outside of elite queues. Honestly, I would rather they listened to the players and made an option for space or ground random...but it seems cryptic in their normal stance isn't gonna take any feedback...so what can ya do.
That would solve half the problem but its not just the load out problem. My concern is some players are experienced at ground or space not both. There are plenty of people who can run advanced space fine but are rubbish at ground advanced or the other way around.
What happens when I use the normal queue system and a bunch of random get thrown in unprepared. Doing something like Cure Applied advanced could turn into a nightmare with randoms who have the wrong equipment. This random thing could ruin normal queue system runs.
It’s not about maintaining max deeps. Certain missions require you to take certain items and certain builds require you to take certain traits and spec options. This is fine for the standard queues but will cause problems with the random system.
No, they don't apart from frequency remodulators for borg content (a problem also encountered by players during Sompek without serious complaint) and EV suits for tholian (you can pick those up from the dil store but our recommendation for Cryptic was to simply exclude these from eligible queues.) Don't mistake advantageous strategies for mechanical requirements (unless you have a build so borderline that it simply doesn't work unless you have that advantage. Point there: improve your build.)
If you have a specialist build that absolutely cannot be used in any other bit of STO then you have overspecialized. Lesson: don't do that unless you're embarking on a dedicated grinding run. Ie. not queuing for random PVE's or simply playing Featured Episodes (another core part of STO that.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
It’s not about maintaining max deeps. Certain missions require you to take certain items and certain builds require you to take certain traits and spec options. This is fine for the standard queues but will cause problems with the random system.
No, they don't apart from frequency remodulators for borg content (a problem also encountered by players during Sompek without serious complaint) and EV suits for tholian (you can pick those up from the dil store but our recommendation for Cryptic was to simply exclude these from eligible queues.) Don't mistake advantageous strategies for mechanical requirements (unless you have a build so borderline that it simply doesn't work unless you have that advantage. Point there: improve your build.)
If you have a specialist build that absolutely cannot be used in any other bit of STO then you have overspecialized. Lesson: don't do that unless you're embarking on a dedicated grinding run. Ie. not queuing for random PVE's or simply playing Featured Episodes (another core part of STO that.)
You should not mistake a build, built around synergy and mechanic interactions as a build that requires improvement. Just because a themed build requires certain things it does not mean it’s overspecialised in a bad way. The problem is not the player build; the real problem is the poor implantation of the way random STF work. Saying take a more generic unspecialised build is not an acceptable solution.
This is not like Sompek you can muddle though that if someone doesn't have a frequency remodulator as its the odd wave. But in the ground runs without the frequency remodulator that player can be doing zero damage for almost the entire mission which is a major problem.
“If you have a specialist build that absolutely cannot be used in any other bit of STO then you have overspecialized. Lesson: don't do that unless you're embarking on a dedicated grinding run.”
Complete rubbish. That is not a lesson either its just a terrible rule you made up that isn't true.
Mate, if you had read ANYTHING I'd said you'd already know I'm not talking about myself. I'm not touching this because I HATE most space queues. No amount of rewards is going to affect that. They're a lot of idiot pewpew with no tactic to them at all. Thanks but no, if I want to just blow things up I'll go run the Argala patrol.
…..
issues that will affects new players negatively is brought up.
How many new players do you imagine share your views of space combat?
Dear Lord, reading comprehension on this forum is really an all time low isn't it. I literally said nothing about space combat. I had a few choice words about the space queues, or STFs or GTFOs or whatever they're calling them now.
Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
Seems like the developers are a bit lost this expansion. If this idea is to repopulate the old que’s, then they clearly don't know their players much. People play what they want to play. Dil is very easy to get in game, if people play a bit. You’re spamming events with dil rewards the last months. People stop doing que’s, when they’ve got the needed marks, so adding more to them quickens this process.
You cannot force players to spend time on bugged content. Look at the Tzenketi BZ. A beautiful map and it’s a map for cooperative play. Bugged at launch, and let’s be honest only premade teams are willing to patrol captured zones. And BZ player caps forces u to play with the quick effort guys. BZ's that worked before have a mechanic, if players like it, they play it. It’s a shame for that Tzenketi map. Gamma BZ is the same, the idea is fun, but when people are done, they don’t play a que’s related zone. The Gamma BZ isn’t a map where people park and run all que's each day, there’s no AH, Vendors etc.
The competitive que's are also dead. Not because they aren't fun or bad designed. But it takes 10 to start. Followed by 10 capable people to press the ok button when the pop up comes. Some prefer space and others ground, some dislike PVP aspect. It's too bad, because when the rep came, i loved to run it. Allot. Even when the team lost. Close wins / losses are the best for such ques. But the AFK leach people ruin it, even more then the ok challenged pressing people.
If people get stuck with que’s they skipped for a reason, they go back to the old system. The Aprils fool approach pictures might soften people, but it hides a bad approach badly. If you WANTED truly to make the que’s more run and populated and less selective only. You could have used a weekend rotation which paid out more or gave a RNG drop only in those weekends.
Buggs, Pugtards and none starters are what made que’s unpopular or barely run. Or that on completing reps (which can be filled with alerts) the que’s becomes none interesting. I can enjoy both types of runs. Ground or space, premade or random party, teamwork or carrying the team. The good thing is that let us choose to skip the random feature. Also even if you would make ground AND space settings, i kinda expect more trait resets buggs
“If you have a specialist build that absolutely cannot be used in any other bit of STO then you have overspecialized. Lesson: don't do that unless you're embarking on a dedicated grinding run.”
Complete rubbish. That is not a lesson either its just a terrible rule you made up that isn't true.
If your space build cannot be used for ground combat, it is overspecialized for STO (as a whole.) This is pretty darn straight forward.
Test: can you play a featured episode using [insert build here]? If yes, then you can play a random queue of corresponding difficulty and thus the devs don't need to make special accommodations for ground/space preferences and thereby isolate the benefit of the random queue system (saying that accommodation required is simple hyperbole.)
If no, rework your build to be less specialized because you're missing out on a lot of the game and a wide variety of mission reward gear, which could be relevant for some builds (though I don't think you will reach this point if we're talking about a build so heavily invested in that you're considering ideal CDM in the first place. More so: queuing for ground in spite of personal preference is going to have a greater impact on those who've simply never chosen to invest in ground gear at all [in which case: either start or stand aside for something that evidently isn't tailor to your interests alone.])
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Instead of the devs wasting time adding yet another "feature", why don't they continue fixing the bugs and problems that have been breaking this game since it's gone free to play, let alone since Delta Broke.
Really, just adding this is not really what most players wanted, at least as far as I can tell.
“If you have a specialist build that absolutely cannot be used in any other bit of STO then you have overspecialized. Lesson: don't do that unless you're embarking on a dedicated grinding run.”
Complete rubbish. That is not a lesson either its just a terrible rule you made up that isn't true.
If your space build cannot be used for ground combat, it is overspecialized for STO (as a whole.) This is pretty darn straight forward.
Test: can you play a featured episode using [insert build here]? If yes, then you can play a random queue of corresponding difficulty and thus the devs don't need to make special accommodations for ground/space preferences and thereby isolate the benefit of the random queue system (saying that accommodation required is simple hyperbole.)
If no, rework your build to be less specialized because you're missing out on a lot of the game and a wide variety of mission reward gear, which could be relevant for some builds (though I don't think you will reach this point if we're talking about a build so heavily invested in that you're considering ideal CDM in the first place. More so: queuing for ground in spite of personal preference is going to have a greater impact on those who've simply never chosen to invest in ground gear at all [in which case: either start or stand aside for something that evidently isn't tailor to your interests alone.])
Wrong again on so many levels. Just because you say its overspecialized doesn't mean it is or that's its a negative. Being highly specialized is perfectly reasonable and is a good thing. Reworking a build to be less specialized is not an acceptable or suitable answer. If a player has to change their build to use Random STF due to the wrong spec being selected then Random STF is not fit for purpose in the way it’s designed. A player shouldn’t have to guess and choose a ground or space spec only to end up with the wrong one selected and doing nothing. Some builds require synergy and mechanic interactions based around preselected specializations.
It’s not about over specialization it’s about Random STF needs to be designed in a suitable and fair way.
It doesn’t matter how much less specialized a player makes a build if they guess wrong they are put at a large disadvantage with a large nerf to their build with Random STF’s. It’s not even about if the build works or not. It’s about playing with zero specializations instead of having two active all because you used random STF.
As I pointed out before I cannot stand aside. I have zero interest in running and using the random STF feature as for me the reward is pointless/useless. What makes me anxious is random STF is not really random is flawed. What really makes me anxious is right now when I queue up for something I can reasonably expect the person who queued up for it to have an idea and be prepared for that mission. After random STF comes out, when I queue up for something there is a high chance random players will be thrown in, random player who might be much weaker than normal due to wrong specializations being selected, possibly unprepared for that mission and possibly missing key items needed to do the mission. This random STF could well increase mission fail rates and make more missions fail even for those people not using random STF. I can see it working for normal missions the problem is random STF players could cause major problems for select advanced or Elite content.
Like I said before I would hate to end up with unprepared random STF players with the wrong equipment and with space specializations in something like advanced Cure Applied or advanced/Elite Bug Hunt. It would have a large negative impact on the entire team. When you run those types of queues you want to be in that mission with other people who wanted to run that mission and are prepared for that mission. Not some random STF player who is more likely to cause the mission to fail. I am not saying all random STF players will be bad but it doesn't take much to see the negative impact random STF could have on players trying to use the standard queue system.
Cannot add to what most people have said.
If an stf is dead-its for a reason,usually its TRIBBLE or boring.
The red alerts usually are the best for what the player base wants,which would be rep marks and dilithium.
An improved Dyson and a few better thought out battlezones are also welcome.
My 10 cents.
Reduce the cooldown timer to 15 miniutes or remove it.Unless you love us grinding-which is a bad policy.
The dil should be 500,plus a bonus for every miniute saved in the stf-say 100 per min.Makes the guys who come along from the ride join in rather than go afk or play dead
One piece of random purple gear for every stf per lvl of the stf along with any notmal rewards.
eg: Normal: 1 piece
Asvanced: 2 pieces
Elite: 3
pieces.
Saves the idea of random-TRIBBLE or boring stfs being played-are you trying to improve the game cryptic or kill your player base ?.
Remember what "random" means? It is all about not being planned...no pattern.
Devs are giving out extra rewards because you are willingly taking a risk. No risk, no rewards. And it sounds like that is that. The system is going up on Tribble, soon.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I really hope that you're not going to make adjustments based on this forum thread... From quickly browsing through some of the responses I highly doubt that you're reaching the people who actually play this kind of content... You wont find many good players on the forums because this place, like the queues, is heavily infested with trolls and clueless players.
Unfortunately a lot of good players who regularly played pve queues, left the game after the previous revamp. I wish you would make an effort to reach out to those (groups of) players who actually do ground or space tours for several hours per day. Every single one of them will be able to tell you exactly whats wrong with the queues and why they are bleeding to death.
A. You keep nerfing content that makes good active players leave the game
B. The advanced/elite pve queues are heavily infested with clueless players
C. The rewards (often only 1 type of marks) are not worth it
With the TFO bonus rewards you are perhaps tackling point C, so I applaud you for that. However, it will ultimately fail if you do not solve issues A and B.
I understand that you need to make the game accessible for new players, but if you do that at the expense of your active players, you're basically just creating an empty shell. For the record, I don't have a problem with clueless players, we all start out clueless. It would be nice however if you made an effort to not ONLY listen to the trolls and the clueless players.
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You're welcome.
Surely you mean the Galactic Task Force Operations?
i like the idea of randomness but how can you pre-set yourself for a mission if you dont know what it will be?
OR, simply allow us to switch those out of combat in mission.... that woul be simplier to do i guess.
Excellent point. This asking for feedback bit might be staged theater, as much if not more, compared to genuine concern in any bettering of STO. I still think this type of mechanic has potential, but there's no need to exclude, if it does, selecting a particular queue a player might want as it is now just have this in addition as an option.
How about you spec a healthy mix of both or choose one of the combi-specs? Part of not knowing what you face is, well, NOT KNOWING WHAT YOU FACE. pre-setting yourself defeats the purpose of that. If you are uncomfortable with that, don't queue randomly.
Also, a spec doesn't make or creak a build. Don't act like it's mandatory.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Why?!
Bad enough that some ground stuff can't be skipped when going through the story lines *looks at the grave-robbing kobali scumbags*, but to force us to play queues that we don't like, if we want to take part in your new queue system... Why not just tell us we have a choice of **** sandwich with or without the bread?
The ground content is dire at best, to try and force it won't make it any more palatable, it'll just make your new queue system undesirable.
And let's not mince words here, despite changing it to have some fancy title, a queue is still a queue.
the current system will still be in place. you will STILL be able to choose which queues you want to join just like you can now.
The whole Random thing is something you can choose to do if you don't care which TFO you join and get extra Rewards for doing so.
No one is forcing you to use this system.
They are rewarding use of Random System because it will get people in TFOs that normally never launch.
If they gave us the ability to choose, most people would just choose the SAME TFOs that normally start anyways.
This would sorta defeat the purpose.
I'm sure that is why Borticus stated they intended to keep it random with space and ground included.
as for the name thing, it's just rebranding.
happens all the time in advertising. not a big deal.
in theory, it makes something old look new and exciting to draw attention to it.
judging by the above posts, it sorta worked...sorta
When they ask for feedback, surely that means they want people to give an honest opinion of what is being proposed?
For myself, the choice of joining a random space queue for extra rewards is desirable, the chance of joining a random ground isn't.
We are being forced to use the system as there is no option to completely avoid it when using the standard queue.
I think you're mistaking maintaining max deeps with being able to effectively participated with, again, normal/advanced queues. If you have somehow made a build which is so temperamental that it only works [in basic, mechanical terms] within the narrow confines of a given set of specs, change the build to be less temperamental.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
What I use in The Breach is different to what I use for CE or Cure Applied. I don't want to land in CE while setup for a Breach or Cure Applied. I am more worried about randoms ending up in my runs with the wrong setup causing an increase in fails. Having a random space guy drop into Cure Applied advanced or Bug Hunt Elite without being prepared can and will at times ruin the run for those that use the standed queue system.
WHY>>>WHY>>>WHY? Is this DR is the BEST expansion and players LOVE it all over again. RANDOM is a horrible idea and surely you don't want to make the same mistakes this game went through before it went F2P. I remember how many people used to complain about random not being fair and DStahl (Mr EP) cut if off for so much flaming in the forums. I guess all new players now accept it and devolve into a broken system all over again.
Original STO beta tester.
I went on Tribble and looked through the missions....they added the queues into the Mission Journal as follows:
(This is KDF side...I don't think I ever did any missions with the Ferengi)
STORY ARC = TFO that was added to it.
EMPIRE = Romulan Imperial Minefield
ROMULAN MYSTERY = Azure Nebula Rescue
CARDASSIAN STRUGGLE = Assault on Terok Nor *or* Counterpoint
BORG ADVANCE = Infected *or* Cure *or* Khitomer Accord
NEW ROMULUS = Atmosphere Assault *or* Defending Rh'Ihho Station *or* Vault: Ensnared
SOLANAE DYSON SPHERE = Breach *or* Storming the Spire
DELTA QUADRANT = ????
Well, looks like I never did any missions during Delta Rising so "TFO: Delta Quadrant" is not unlocked for me. I can't accept the mission to see what queue missions they attached to that.
Since these queues will be unlocked as new characters follow the Mission Journal....more variety will pop up.
But then, doing missions with a mix of different skill, gear and levels of players....I don't know how that would go.
I think the Devs want people to mix it up and start meeting each other at a lower level??? Not sure what the goal is.
REMEMBER this is on TRIBBLE and subject to change.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
What happens when I use the normal queue system and a bunch of random get thrown in unprepared. Doing something like Cure Applied advanced could turn into a nightmare with randoms who have the wrong equipment. This random thing could ruin normal queue system runs.
No, they don't apart from frequency remodulators for borg content (a problem also encountered by players during Sompek without serious complaint) and EV suits for tholian (you can pick those up from the dil store but our recommendation for Cryptic was to simply exclude these from eligible queues.) Don't mistake advantageous strategies for mechanical requirements (unless you have a build so borderline that it simply doesn't work unless you have that advantage. Point there: improve your build.)
If you have a specialist build that absolutely cannot be used in any other bit of STO then you have overspecialized. Lesson: don't do that unless you're embarking on a dedicated grinding run. Ie. not queuing for random PVE's or simply playing Featured Episodes (another core part of STO that.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
This is not like Sompek you can muddle though that if someone doesn't have a frequency remodulator as its the odd wave. But in the ground runs without the frequency remodulator that player can be doing zero damage for almost the entire mission which is a major problem.
“If you have a specialist build that absolutely cannot be used in any other bit of STO then you have overspecialized. Lesson: don't do that unless you're embarking on a dedicated grinding run.”
Complete rubbish. That is not a lesson either its just a terrible rule you made up that isn't true.
Dear Lord, reading comprehension on this forum is really an all time low isn't it. I literally said nothing about space combat. I had a few choice words about the space queues, or STFs or GTFOs or whatever they're calling them now.
People play what they want to play. Dil is very easy to get in game, if people play a bit. You’re spamming events with dil rewards the last months.
People stop doing que’s, when they’ve got the needed marks, so adding more to them quickens this process.
You cannot force players to spend time on bugged content. Look at the Tzenketi BZ. A beautiful map and it’s a map for cooperative play.
Bugged at launch, and let’s be honest only premade teams are willing to patrol captured zones. And BZ player caps forces u to play with the quick effort guys.
BZ's that worked before have a mechanic, if players like it, they play it. It’s a shame for that Tzenketi map.
Gamma BZ is the same, the idea is fun, but when people are done, they don’t play a que’s related zone.
The Gamma BZ isn’t a map where people park and run all que's each day, there’s no AH, Vendors etc.
The competitive que's are also dead. Not because they aren't fun or bad designed. But it takes 10 to start. Followed by 10 capable people to press the ok button when the pop up comes.
Some prefer space and others ground, some dislike PVP aspect. It's too bad, because when the rep came, i loved to run it. Allot. Even when the team lost.
Close wins / losses are the best for such ques. But the AFK leach people ruin it, even more then the ok challenged pressing people.
If people get stuck with que’s they skipped for a reason, they go back to the old system.
The Aprils fool approach pictures might soften people, but it hides a bad approach badly.
If you WANTED truly to make the que’s more run and populated and less selective only.
You could have used a weekend rotation which paid out more or gave a RNG drop only in those weekends.
Buggs, Pugtards and none starters are what made que’s unpopular or barely run. Or that on completing reps (which can be filled with alerts) the que’s becomes none interesting.
I can enjoy both types of runs. Ground or space, premade or random party, teamwork or carrying the team.
The good thing is that let us choose to skip the random feature.
Also even if you would make ground AND space settings, i kinda expect more trait resets buggs
Test: can you play a featured episode using [insert build here]? If yes, then you can play a random queue of corresponding difficulty and thus the devs don't need to make special accommodations for ground/space preferences and thereby isolate the benefit of the random queue system (saying that accommodation required is simple hyperbole.)
If no, rework your build to be less specialized because you're missing out on a lot of the game and a wide variety of mission reward gear, which could be relevant for some builds (though I don't think you will reach this point if we're talking about a build so heavily invested in that you're considering ideal CDM in the first place. More so: queuing for ground in spite of personal preference is going to have a greater impact on those who've simply never chosen to invest in ground gear at all [in which case: either start or stand aside for something that evidently isn't tailor to your interests alone.])
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Really, just adding this is not really what most players wanted, at least as far as I can tell.
It’s not about over specialization it’s about Random STF needs to be designed in a suitable and fair way.
It doesn’t matter how much less specialized a player makes a build if they guess wrong they are put at a large disadvantage with a large nerf to their build with Random STF’s. It’s not even about if the build works or not. It’s about playing with zero specializations instead of having two active all because you used random STF.
As I pointed out before I cannot stand aside. I have zero interest in running and using the random STF feature as for me the reward is pointless/useless. What makes me anxious is random STF is not really random is flawed. What really makes me anxious is right now when I queue up for something I can reasonably expect the person who queued up for it to have an idea and be prepared for that mission. After random STF comes out, when I queue up for something there is a high chance random players will be thrown in, random player who might be much weaker than normal due to wrong specializations being selected, possibly unprepared for that mission and possibly missing key items needed to do the mission. This random STF could well increase mission fail rates and make more missions fail even for those people not using random STF. I can see it working for normal missions the problem is random STF players could cause major problems for select advanced or Elite content.
Like I said before I would hate to end up with unprepared random STF players with the wrong equipment and with space specializations in something like advanced Cure Applied or advanced/Elite Bug Hunt. It would have a large negative impact on the entire team. When you run those types of queues you want to be in that mission with other people who wanted to run that mission and are prepared for that mission. Not some random STF player who is more likely to cause the mission to fail. I am not saying all random STF players will be bad but it doesn't take much to see the negative impact random STF could have on players trying to use the standard queue system.
If an stf is dead-its for a reason,usually its TRIBBLE or boring.
The red alerts usually are the best for what the player base wants,which would be rep marks and dilithium.
An improved Dyson and a few better thought out battlezones are also welcome.
My 10 cents.
Reduce the cooldown timer to 15 miniutes or remove it.Unless you love us grinding-which is a bad policy.
The dil should be 500,plus a bonus for every miniute saved in the stf-say 100 per min.Makes the guys who come along from the ride join in rather than go afk or play dead
One piece of random purple gear for every stf per lvl of the stf along with any notmal rewards.
eg: Normal: 1 piece
Asvanced: 2 pieces
Elite: 3
pieces.
Saves the idea of random-TRIBBLE or boring stfs being played-are you trying to improve the game cryptic or kill your player base ?.
Again-if an stf is dead,its dead for a reason.
Devs are giving out extra rewards because you are willingly taking a risk. No risk, no rewards. And it sounds like that is that. The system is going up on Tribble, soon.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Unfortunately a lot of good players who regularly played pve queues, left the game after the previous revamp. I wish you would make an effort to reach out to those (groups of) players who actually do ground or space tours for several hours per day. Every single one of them will be able to tell you exactly whats wrong with the queues and why they are bleeding to death.
A. You keep nerfing content that makes good active players leave the game
B. The advanced/elite pve queues are heavily infested with clueless players
C. The rewards (often only 1 type of marks) are not worth it
With the TFO bonus rewards you are perhaps tackling point C, so I applaud you for that. However, it will ultimately fail if you do not solve issues A and B.
I understand that you need to make the game accessible for new players, but if you do that at the expense of your active players, you're basically just creating an empty shell. For the record, I don't have a problem with clueless players, we all start out clueless. It would be nice however if you made an effort to not ONLY listen to the trolls and the clueless players.