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Star Trek Online: Age of Discovery

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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    But other than style/visual differences, can you make TRIBBLE fit into established Prime w/o a hundred 'yeah but...' exceptions?
    The answer to that is No.

    Which is, of course, asking a modern TV show to ape the aesthetics of its decades old predecessor without considering how replicating an aesthetic outside of its original cultural context might play outside that context, and simply to hammer narrative continuity according to the barest possible interpretation of what visuals in fictional media represent (ie. the world literally as the characters see it, not the world of the characters as translated to fit the scope of a production and cultural point of view of the creators and audience.)

    Ie. that Star Trek is real, not media entertainment. The aesthetics at any point are a translation for both the benefit of the production team and audience, hence why every series looks like its host decade's own interpretation of what life in the future will be like. DSC is part of its time, hence stylistic changes that are both conscious and unconscious retranslations of "Star Trek of this era" (see. impact of 3D printing on prop design.) Nominally some design cues will carry over (which is all that's necessary to establish narrative continuity, ie. visual language through identifiable symbology), but the effect will always be unmistakable.
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  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,363 Arc User
    trekgate0 wrote: »
    Discovery. TRIBBLE? Really? Here I thought the greater community of fandom and Trek had settled in DIS or Disco...

    Yeah, its called Star Trek: Discovery... TRIBBLE; blame the advertising department.
    Actually I find calling it Disco even more derogatory than TRIBBLE. :D

    If you want to argue that "Star Trek: Enterprise" should be STE instead of ENT, I'll entertain that argument more than one for 'Disco'. ;)
  • captainkoltarcaptainkoltar Member Posts: 773 Arc User
    I look forward to it - and to more delightful nerd rage from a bunch of alleged Star Trek fans.
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,951 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    trekgate0 wrote: »
    Discovery. TRIBBLE? Really? Here I thought the greater community of fandom and Trek had settled in DIS or Disco...

    Yeah, its called Star Trek: Discovery... TRIBBLE; blame the advertising department.
    Actually I find calling it Disco even more derogatory than TRIBBLE. :D

    If you want to argue that "Star Trek: Enterprise" should be STE instead of ENT, I'll entertain that argument more than one for 'Disco'. ;)

    Well, "Disco" at least turned up in-universe.
    99912.jpg

    Officially, though, the abbreviation is DSC (and not DIS *glares at Memory Alpha admins*).
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

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  • rexedrexed Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    "For the very first time in STO’s history, we’ll be updating the game in line with a currently airing Star Trek series."

    Will you be sneaking unlock codes into TRIBBLE screens in order to somehow convince people to watch it?
  • starrfoxx71starrfoxx71 Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    No one ever got sucked out into space during a hull breach?

    Correction, sir. That's "blown out".

  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,363 Arc User
    But other than style/visual differences, can you make TRIBBLE fit into established Prime w/o a hundred 'yeah but...' exceptions?
    The answer to that is No.

    Which is, of course, asking a modern TV show to ape the aesthetics of its decades old predecessor without considering how replicating an aesthetic outside of its original cultural context might play outside that context, and simply to hammer narrative continuity according to the barest possible interpretation of what visuals in fictional media represent (ie. the world literally as the characters see it, not the world of the characters as translated to fit the scope of a production and cultural point of view of the creators and audience.)

    You type words, but they make no sense. :( The first thing I said was that I made an exception for "aesthetics" due to the 2018 vs 1966 difference. TRIBBLE takes so many 'liberties' with Prime canon its not even trying to follow the 'rules'. Klingons that don't act like Klingons passed off as 'this is some previously unseen clan that acts totally different' type of thing. Ships 2x the size of ships that came later in TOS (for no good reason). If TRIBBLE is prequel to Kelvin timeline that makes alot more sense than it being a Prime timeline prequel.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,125 Arc User
    "CBS was looking to Star Trek: Discovery to deliver a surge in subscribers to the All Access subscription service.

    It doesn’t look like the show delivered and CBS is in danger of missing its subscriber goal for 2020.

    Releasing Star Trek: Discovery through All Access deprived it of much of its audience. The show is the least watched Star Trek in the franchise’s history."


    So, ENT got more and it was on the channel UPN that wasn't available everywhere in the country!

    ‘Star Trek Discovery’ Fuels Record Signups For CBS All Access

    CBS All Access has highest signup day ever thanks to "Star Trek: Discovery"

    CBS All Access Sets Record for Sign-Ups Thanks to ‘Star Trek: Discovery’

    'Star Trek: Discovery' Leads CBS All Access To Another Record High Week Of Sign-Ups
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • lopequillopequil Member Posts: 1,213 Arc User
    Damn. I really, really hated TRIBBLE.
    Q9BWcdD.png
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,363 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    Well, "Disco" at least turned up in-universe.
    99912.jpg

    Well, ain't that just sad. :D

  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,363 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    "CBS was looking to Star Trek: Discovery to deliver a surge in subscribers to the All Access subscription service.

    It doesn’t look like the show delivered and CBS is in danger of missing its subscriber goal for 2020.

    Releasing Star Trek: Discovery through All Access deprived it of much of its audience. The show is the least watched Star Trek in the franchise’s history."


    So, ENT got more and it was on the channel UPN that wasn't available everywhere in the country!

    ‘Star Trek Discovery’ Fuels Record Signups For CBS All Access

    CBS All Access has highest signup day ever thanks to "Star Trek: Discovery"

    CBS All Access Sets Record for Sign-Ups Thanks to ‘Star Trek: Discovery’

    'Star Trek: Discovery' Leads CBS All Access To Another Record High Week Of Sign-Ups

    Mmm yeah... those all talk about the premier. When TRIBBLE was THE thing CBS was promoting and no one knew how bad it was. If I had 2 subscribers and got 2 more I DOUBLED my subscriber base. Wow, 'doubled'...sounds fantastic, eh? :D Got any articles that arn't from the premiere week?
  • phoenix841phoenix841 Member Posts: 484 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Hmm, apparently STO forums block you after editing your comment too many times.
    necriemoon wrote: »
    Also, just FYI, some (not all) of the videos I've referenced above have some NSFW language.
    Well, Discovery has NSFW language too, so I guess it doesn't matter.
    Discovery isn't that divisive imo. I didn't like it at first, but the series has grown on me. Sure, there are still some things that are dumb if you ask me, like the fact that we're looking backwards rather than forwards, the language use (f-word) and the spore drive - but overall the series has remained close to the core ideas of the franchise. Especially during the last episode.

    That language was precisely why I was afraid of it being on CBS All-access. My fears were realized.
    Call me a prude or whatever, I don't care. Not only the fact they used that language (and twice, no less), but also the way they made it totally obvious and in your face, you couldn't ignore it, or pretend to, if you wanted to. Even Data swearing in Generations was nothing like this.
    Hearing that was like a gut punch. I literally felt nauseated the rest of the episode.

    That episode killed Discovery for me. Kind of a shame, because my wife likes it, so I was hoping to enjoy it with her.
    As I mentioned before, I stopped watching after the mid-season break. Multiple people have mentioned the latter half is better, but everytime I think of going back to it, I get angry. Probably irrational, but it is what it is. Part of me would like to at least watch it with my wife, so she can still enjoy it.
    LTS Since Beta (Jan 2010).
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,951 Arc User
    phoenix841 wrote: »
    Hmm, apparently STO forums block you after editing your comment too many times.

    No, that's a long-running glitch with the forum software; we call it the edit monster. Generally if you add a line of nonsense text to the end of your post, it'll go through.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • dagooxdagoox Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    "CBS was looking to Star Trek: Discovery to deliver a surge in subscribers to the All Access subscription service.

    It doesn’t look like the show delivered and CBS is in danger of missing its subscriber goal for 2020.

    Releasing Star Trek: Discovery through All Access deprived it of much of its audience. The show is the least watched Star Trek in the franchise’s history."


    So, ENT got more and it was on the channel UPN that wasn't available everywhere in the country!

    ‘Star Trek Discovery’ Fuels Record Signups For CBS All Access

    CBS All Access has highest signup day ever thanks to "Star Trek: Discovery"

    CBS All Access Sets Record for Sign-Ups Thanks to ‘Star Trek: Discovery’

    'Star Trek: Discovery' Leads CBS All Access To Another Record High Week Of Sign-Ups

    It's typical that a new pilot has lot of views. Also after a few episodes lot of people stopped the sub, but CBS offered another 1-2 months free subs like two times. That's desperation.
  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,750 Arc User
    Eww, Yuck, Bleh, ect.

    TRIBBLE lives up to its initials other meaning and by the feel of it, unlike the unobtrusive JJ trek missions this will be something you are 'forced' to play (as in it'll be the only new content and of course the inevitable fed recruitment run (uggh, another feddy bear alt who will be levelled, maxxed then left aside after the rewards are gained...) that will make you endure TRIBBLE overload

    I know why they are doing it (a vain advert attempt to get more people forking out cash to watch ppv episodes) but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

    T6 reps will be a little odd but more traits/items are nice and if the old reps are updated to cores and alternate weapons; I'd be happy indeed (no more khg shield and engine combo for its 2pc, allowing a batter engine or shield)

    If and when they do add TRIBBLE I hope they'll give you an 'academy datapad' full of descriptions and trivia to explain stds world..of course if they wanted, they vould scrap TRIBBLE and make an Orville season as thats more trek than TRIBBLE will ever be
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    But other than style/visual differences, can you make TRIBBLE fit into established Prime w/o a hundred 'yeah but...' exceptions?
    The answer to that is No.

    Which is, of course, asking a modern TV show to ape the aesthetics of its decades old predecessor without considering how replicating an aesthetic outside of its original cultural context might play outside that context, and simply to hammer narrative continuity according to the barest possible interpretation of what visuals in fictional media represent (ie. the world literally as the characters see it, not the world of the characters as translated to fit the scope of a production and cultural point of view of the creators and audience.)

    You type words, but they make no sense.

    That's on you, buddy. You're making a 101-level mistake in film appreciation. Ie. failing to grasp the difference between a media depiction and a depicted reality. I'm pointing that out. If you're not able to participate in that discussion, that's okay, but your discussion point is wanting never the less.

    Canon isn't a set thing. The fictional reality of Star Trek changes per moment based on the needs of plot. See. every situation setup just so to prevent an easy out or to enhance dramatic tension, character development, and plot progression. This extends through seasons and series to render the "fictional universe" of Star Trek a fluid thing, to say the least. It exists, so long as the plot of the moment needs it to. Once that need changes, canon changes. See. how the holodeck works through TNG and into VOY. That doesn't track with underlying social or technological development. The writers needed it to do, and not do, different things at different times. So, that's what happened. See also. the main deflector, Ferengi society, and what resource limitations Voyager was acting under throughout its journey. These plot needs can both be defined as the mechanical needs of the story as well as the broader needs to effectively translate that story to its audience for an intended impact (to touch on the major point of the previous post, ie. why the look of each series [and all sci-fi] was so heavily influenced by its time.)

    Any argument, therefore, which maintains that deviations like having a larger ship than the Constitution class (which simply never came up before IIRC, TOS never developed the fleet beyond one aging class/handy production model) or not faithfully replicating 60's cultural styles (both visual and narrative; how the Klingons acted at any point was also heavily influenced by contemporary writing styles and audience sensibilities) pushes DSC outside of narrative continuity is, quite frankly, moot. What you're complaining about literally doesn't matter to the definition of what's prime universe, canon, or Star Trek. All of the above are satisfied by the name "Star Trek: Discovery" (provided: no exposition about alternate universes or time travel, which is only necessary for big revisions like imploding Vulcan and wrecking 1701 prior to Search for Spock.)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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  • phoenix841phoenix841 Member Posts: 484 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    starswordc wrote: »
    No, that's a long-running glitch with the forum software; we call it the edit monster. Generally if you add a line of nonsense text to the end of your post, it'll go through.

    Ah, thanks for that information!


    StarSword wuz here, fixin ur quote tags
    LTS Since Beta (Jan 2010).
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 55,806 Community Moderator
    If people want to split hairs like that... then where's the rage over the touchscreen interfaces aboard the Enterprise-A vs the buttons/switches on the refit Enterprise? I mean they are the SAME CLASS, yet vastly different tech. Shouldn't the Enterprise-A have used the same bridge module as the previous one?

    How about the fact that TMP had different uniforms and rank insignia than Wrath of Khan?

    Why did DS9 use different uniforms from TNG if they were taking place at the same time?

    Why did Voyager have Bio-Neural Gel Packs when seemingly no other ship in the fleet had them? Not even the Defiant.

    Why wasn't the Spore Drive known to Voyager's crew? It could have got them home so much sooner!

    Why was the Enterprise-D using two different uniforms in Generations?

    Why were the 22nd Century Starfleet Uniforms covered in zippers if they aren't supposed to exist anymore thanks to TOS via design choices for uniforms or some obscure offhand comment made by Saint Roddenberry?

    Splitting hairs for the sake of splitting hairs over what is and what isn't Trek is honestly stupid, and many of the arguments are just recycled from the LAST new Trek thing. OUR technology advances. What is new, shiny, and futuristic in the 60s is NOT what we would consider futuristic today. Nods and references are fine, but as my tartegrade friend has said... you can't expect a series filmed in the 21st Century to basically recreate the 60s to satisfy absolute diehards.

    Security_team_in_corridor.jpg
    These looked good in the 60s. And yes they are Iconic now. However they are also rather dated.

    startrek2009.0100.jpg
    These, not counting that guy in The Chair, are a good modernization of the 60s uniforms. Keeping elements while making them look higher quality, which is a product of better technology.

    rYviJWg6LDpgLcbxx9fYEC.jpg
    This... is ALSO a good modernization of the 60s uniforms. AGAIN, a product of better technology.

    Star Wars can kinda get away with it because lets face it... Star Wars tech advancement is stagnant. A blaster in the Jedi Civil War is just as effective as a blaster in the Galactic Civil War. Its also not OUR galaxy.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • starfallarmadastarfallarmada Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    Ok, setting aside whether this move is a good idea or not (in short i think its a bad idea, but not as bad as some of the doomsayers) this actually explains how stunted Victory is Life ended up. I'm willing to bet they had a lot more episodes and content planned for ViL, but then as they were producing it, they were told to give priority to this new idea to have it available in conjunction with the next season of DSC. Episodes and other plans, got truncated, combined and/or eliminated entirely, so that resources could be shifted to producing this new expansion in the time crunch. If this is the case then that is where ill be mad. I neither like nor hate DSC, but ViL had so much more potential that may have been stifled by this questionable endeavor
  • groundhogmokagroundhogmoka Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    Skimming through all of this I see nearly the same reaction that you guys had when Kelvin Timeline content got added into the game. (Ships, mission, equipment, characters) and yet you willingly fly said ships, use said equipment and even have some of the boffs, doffs and what not. I'm gonna call it now. In a few months time I'll see a lot of Discovery uniforms, Discovery ships, Discovery weapons being used and for a singular reasons. The stats are probably gonna be pretty sweet. But hey time will tell I guess. ;)
  • atticus74atticus74 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    So we're done with Victory is life and making new characters Again!? already. Or am I supposed to be dusting off my TOS character that I never finished with because grinding through all of that content became tedious.
  • nadiezjanadiezja Member Posts: 629 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Discovery's pretty good, and its cast and aesthetics are excellent. It's not perfect (introducing Trek TV's first TRIBBLE couple then killing a member of it off less than a season in does not exactly shower the production team in glory), but it's good, and it meets the parts of Roddenberry's vision that matter most.

    As for the "cardinal rule" discussion, the cardinal rule demolished the dramatic potential of a lot of Roddenberry-era Trek stories. The inability to show the characters in a negative light or give them real conflict during TNG in particular was a huge problem, and likely a good chunk of why the series has so much forgettable filler between its absolutely amazing stories. They killed that rule off with impunity for DS9, and got the best Trek series that has ever been made.

    And continuity? To be perfectly honest, Trek continuity is a horrific mess to begin with. The Borg, Ferengi, Klingons, and Romulans - you know, basically every major antagonist power except the Dominion and Cardassians - all received massive reconceptualizations in the years since their introduction. The Borg went from uninterested in the biological side of the species they met to assimilating one person in an attempt at gaining an advantage to assimilation of people being their entire shtick, the Ferengi went from feral, hissing capitalism-beasts to businessmen who maintain a constant veneer of civilization even as they look for a place to stick a knife in. The entire concept of Klingon honor was introduced to the series twenty years after we initially met the Klingons, changing basically everything about them in the process (the TOS Klingons don't just look totally different from the TNG ones; they ACT totally different too). In a few years, fandom will have moved on and we'll have our oddly-universal ways of making Discovery's continuity fit into everything else mostly-comfortably.

    I'm looking forward to this.
  • nadiezjanadiezja Member Posts: 629 Arc User
    ... Also, at risk of referencing the wrong fandom here, I find the fact that the forums censor my preferred shorthand for my own orientation and gender identity disturbing.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    rattler2 wrote: »
    IStar Wars can kinda get away with it because lets face it... Star Wars tech advancement is stagnant. A blaster in the Jedi Civil War is just as effective as a blaster in the Galactic Civil War. Its also not OUR galaxy.

    Ergo: a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. The movies lead by setting distance between the audience and the fiction and uses that to effect in order to build a sense of wonder and scale to its universe (without needing to explain it...up until Phantom Menace.) Star Trek tries to create a relatable setting. So, it uses contemporary styles and design language for effect.

    Neither of those can be changed without fundamentally reshaping how the audience engages with each property. Set Star Wars to a self-reflective modern ethos, and you have the visual or thematic equivalent of scoring it to disco. Zephram Cochrane rocking out, on the other hand, works just fine (even during cutaway scenes where the music ceases to be diegetic) as does redesigning the constitution class at every opportunity.
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  • starfallarmadastarfallarmada Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    nadiezja wrote: »
    ... Also, at risk of referencing the wrong fandom here, I find the fact that the forums censor my preferred shorthand for my own orientation and gender identity disturbing.
    Yeah, this was weird to me. It took me a bit to figure out what word they censored.
  • ravinravin Member Posts: 509 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    (Discussion of moderation removed. - BMR)
    =\/= ================================ =\/=
    Centurion maximus92
    12th Legion, Romulan Republic
    12th Fleet

    =\/= ================================ =\/=
  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 1,105 Arc User
    tousseau wrote: »
    nommo#5819 wrote: »
    I'm expecting some sort of ST:D recruitment event as well. Possibly new "Vanguard" Klingons to be purchased. More gamble-to-get ships introduced too. Cryptic better have a tardigrade included in some fashion this time though.

    I don't hate ST:D but much of the time it hasn't inspired that ST vibe in me ... yet. I think the first couple of episodes were a rough beginning, but overall I think season 1 was fairly good to good for a scifi show which is how I still think of it. The season 2 trailer did look good & got me a bit hyped for it's return. I'm also glad Cryptic got someone, Wiseman, from the show for some in-game work.

    This is something good for this Fall to look forward to in STO hopefully. Maybe it will add 4-6 mission episodes.

    Not quite a "Vanguard" klingon, but more along the lines of a "Torchbearer"... I thought it was interesting, that during one of the last Vil missions, Martok calling out T'Kuvma and Voq...

    So a Discovery Expansion isn't that much of a stretch, considering it's foreshadowing in Victory is Life....

    Good title with the "Torchbearer" for these future buyable Klingons. Doh, "Martok calling out ..." you gotta place a spoiler alert before such statements lol.

    Hmmm, rambling STO thoughts. Isn't the 3-5 day anniversary giveaway usually near the end of the Summer event or some giveaway if I remember?
  • moggiecanadamoggiecanada Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    I respect other people's right to see Discovery Content added to this game. I don't deny the fact TRIBBLE has a following. My own opinion is perhaps the effort should be towards fixing the bugs in the existing content up to ViL instead of adding content not everyone will want.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    My own opinion is perhaps the effort should be towards fixing the bugs in the existing content up to ViL instead of adding content not everyone will want.

    You do realize that statement includes each and every piece of content added to the game? Not everyone is a fan of TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, or the movies; as well as any number of characters, factions, and other elements from those properties (which find their way into the game.) For example: time travel, the Mirror Universe, and the Dominion (in my particular case.) With a sufficiently large population (ie. a video game community) anyone can be found at any time to object to a piece of content being made on principle.

    In most cases though we're responsible enough to take personal preference in due context. This being Discovery is no excuse.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • thecrusaderxthecrusaderx Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    This is awfully risky of STO to do this.

    On one hand, it would bring in the discovery fans and perhaps new ships from that era

    On another, I really....dun wanna grind for an another tier. They really need to convince me to farm more marks again.

    I just hope they know what they are doing.

    Here's hoping.
    tumblr_p7rwq2Qtxu1wsk1foo1_500.jpg

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