I don't care how DPSers get their numbers... I do care that DPSers don't care that their fun negatively impacts others. If y'all can't even acknowledge that fact and modify your behaviour accordingly, then I hope the devs keep swinging the nerf bat till everyone is brought down to the same level, and you can't use the DPS MegaBuild, because all the fancy stuff has been totally neutered
Yeah, if they ever manage to nerf me down to current level of failpugs, I can guarantee *you* will be in so sad condition you can't beat even story missions on normal difficulty.
Another complex question, which avoids acknowledging the issue... Let's try some other example to see if you can realize the issue itself.
You're going on a first date with someone who has said they aren't a very strong swimmer. You don't chuck them off a boat into the lake.
You're going to get your freak on with someone who clearly says they don't like [insert act of choice here] But you still do [insert act of choice here] anyway. Is that a good thing to do? Or a douchey thing to do?
Except those analogies are terrible.
And why do you think they're terrible? It wouldn't be because it exposes the power-trip mentality for what it actually is, and makes people confront that aspect of themself, would it?
You're again deliberately ignoring the point(s) about extreme DPS having come about through obsessive scrutiny of game mechanics, and finding out what bizzare and/or unintended combinations and/or mechanics, for some reason give high results, and that using High DPS MegaBuilds negatively impacts the experience of anyone unfortunate enough to be caught in the blast radius.
And yet again you demonstrate total lack of knowledge about DPSers and how they do their numbers.
So no DPSer has ever exploited the mechanics of consoles like exploiters, locators, kemo, leech, etc etc?? I'm not even going to ask 'yes or no', because it's clear that that is exactly what has happened, or there would've been no need for a rebalancing/nerf of those items. Would there. (that's a statement, not question, by the way )
I don't care how DPSers get their numbers... I do care that DPSers don't care that their fun negatively impacts others. If y'all can't even acknowledge that fact and modify your behaviour accordingly, then I hope the devs keep swinging the nerf bat till everyone is brought down to the same level, and you can't use the DPS MegaBuild, because all the fancy stuff has been totally neutered
"exploit" you use this but I don't think you know what it means. As you appear to have no actual knowledge of the game, how do you know what dps folks are doing? And they can swing the nerf bat as much as they like, I guarantee you will not be at the same level as many folks.
I don't care how DPSers get their numbers... I do care that DPSers don't care that their fun negatively impacts others. If y'all can't even acknowledge that fact and modify your behaviour accordingly, then I hope the devs keep swinging the nerf bat till everyone is brought down to the same level, and you can't use the DPS MegaBuild, because all the fancy stuff has been totally neutered
You're making the assumption that all high DPS people build what they build out of malice to upset other players just for the heck of it. You're also neglecting to acknowledge that people with sub-par builds can negatively impact the fun of the high DPS players. That door can and does swing both ways. Lastly, you also neglect that anyone can build a high DPS ship and have their game elevated to match others.
Again, wishing for everyone to be nerfed to the point of everyone having equal gear is silly because it accomplishes nothing in the long run. There will always be someone better at the game than you.
1 You're twisting the point (or trying to) I don't assume that they build them out of malice. I never did. But when it's brought to their attention that DPS MegaBuilds have the effects which They Do Have on pugs, they should keep them for private-use only in consideration for other players.
2 I acknowledge it, and I think if anyone is stupid enough to try and enter an Advanced queue with a sub-par build, then they deserve the consequences of that, such as not being able to get their hits in, getting AFKd etc. But. Someone should not have to think twice about entering a Borg or Tholian Red Alert, because their ship may not be able to keep up with the other players. Two very different things, which I'm sure you're well aware of, and just being deliberately disingenuous of.
3 And as we've discussed previously: The fact that The Game gives that same offer of potential to all players, DOES NOT translate into all players being able (or even wanting to) take advantage of that possibility. I'm happy with my vr gear, and don't see why I should spend out further on higher tier gear, just to be able to participate in Red Alerts.
4 Again, deliberately missing the point that I don't care if someone is better than me. What I do care about, is the entitled narcissism and self-centered attitudes of DPSers who continue to say "We'll use our MegaBuilds wether you like it or not, Scrub!" I do care about having to spend my resources to upgrade stuff just to remain competitive with other competitors, who could just as easily stick to totally private runs with their MegaBuilds.
DPSers' collective attitude has shown that they can't be trusted with the cool toys, which sadly, means it has to be taken away... It can either be via more nerfs till morale improves, or It should be tier-locked content: No one higher, no one lower. I don't really care which.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I don't care how DPSers get their numbers... I do care that DPSers don't care that their fun negatively impacts others. If y'all can't even acknowledge that fact and modify your behaviour accordingly, then I hope the devs keep swinging the nerf bat till everyone is brought down to the same level, and you can't use the DPS MegaBuild, because all the fancy stuff has been totally neutered
Yeah, if they ever manage to nerf me down to current level of failpugs, I can guarantee *you* will be in so sad condition you can't beat even story missions on normal difficulty.
Having to resort to ad homs now?
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Another complex question, which avoids acknowledging the issue... Let's try some other example to see if you can realize the issue itself.
You're going on a first date with someone who has said they aren't a very strong swimmer. You don't chuck them off a boat into the lake.
You're going to get your freak on with someone who clearly says they don't like [insert act of choice here] But you still do [insert act of choice here] anyway. Is that a good thing to do? Or a douchey thing to do?
Except those analogies are terrible.
And why do you think they're terrible? It wouldn't be because it exposes the power-trip mentality for what it actually is, and makes people confront that aspect of themself, would it?
You're again deliberately ignoring the point(s) about extreme DPS having come about through obsessive scrutiny of game mechanics, and finding out what bizzare and/or unintended combinations and/or mechanics, for some reason give high results, and that using High DPS MegaBuilds negatively impacts the experience of anyone unfortunate enough to be caught in the blast radius.
And yet again you demonstrate total lack of knowledge about DPSers and how they do their numbers.
So no DPSer has ever exploited the mechanics of consoles like exploiters, locators, kemo, leech, etc etc?? I'm not even going to ask 'yes or no', because it's clear that that is exactly what has happened, or there would've been no need for a rebalancing/nerf of those items. Would there. (that's a statement, not question, by the way )
I don't care how DPSers get their numbers... I do care that DPSers don't care that their fun negatively impacts others. If y'all can't even acknowledge that fact and modify your behaviour accordingly, then I hope the devs keep swinging the nerf bat till everyone is brought down to the same level, and you can't use the DPS MegaBuild, because all the fancy stuff has been totally neutered
"exploit" you use this but I don't think you know what it means. As you appear to have no actual knowledge of the game, how do you know what dps folks are doing? And they can swing the nerf bat as much as they like, I guarantee you will not be at the same level as many folks.
Complex questions and ad hom...
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
This is a MMO ! a public game, you'll always have good players and you'll always have bad players, always mixed together in Public queues that's the nature of a Public queue.
The good players have to tolerate the bad ones, who can't keep up or jump into content that's out of their depth and the bad ones have to tolerate the good ones that decide to run content they are to skilled for.
So its give and take when it comes to the public queues. They are for EVERYBODY.
There's no and shouldn't be any thought for other players entering those matches, other than expecting them to be competent for the PvE they joined.
If you can't accept that then maybe you need to stop playing a public game and go back to single player gaming.
No good player is selfish for entering a public map because that's what the map is for, its for the public to join.
Can't handle that, go private matches or play something else.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
I don't care how DPSers get their numbers... I do care that DPSers don't care that their fun negatively impacts others. If y'all can't even acknowledge that fact and modify your behaviour accordingly, then I hope the devs keep swinging the nerf bat till everyone is brought down to the same level, and you can't use the DPS MegaBuild, because all the fancy stuff has been totally neutered
Yeah, if they ever manage to nerf me down to current level of failpugs, I can guarantee *you* will be in so sad condition you can't beat even story missions on normal difficulty.
Having to resort to ad homs now?
No, he's merely saying exactly what valoreah said too:
Again, wishing for everyone to be nerfed to the point of everyone having equal gear is silly because it accomplishes nothing in the long run. There will always be someone better at the game than you.
And to be even more specific, taking myself as example, by the time tunebreaker has been nerfed to doing only 20k, I'd be doing 2k, was his point. Tl;dr: be careful what you wish for, nerf-happy people, you may get it... And then the game has become unplayable for all but 0.02% of the playerbase.
1 You're twisting the point (or trying to) I don't assume that they build them out of malice. I never did. But when it's brought to their attention that DPS MegaBuilds have the effects which They Do Have on pugs, they should keep them for private-use only in consideration for other players.
I'm not twisting anything. The words you chose to use are very confrontational and have a punitive tone toward anyone who has a high DPS build or disagrees with you. As to who belongs in private matches, again, this door swings both ways. Those with sub-par builds can do the same and create private matches.
You are twisting it, because you're trying to narrate my intentions. I'm equally not commenting on DPSers intentions, but the effects of their builds, the affect it has on others, and their inability to acknowledge, let alone begin to address the behaviour. And yes, I was using firm words, because I don't believe people are aware of how toxic this mindset being collectively displayed by the DPSers is at its core.
As far as someone of that mindset is concerned, as long as they get theirs, TRIBBLE everyone and anyone else, and TRIBBLE the notion of them behaving differently. It's an absolutely disgusting mindset, and needs to be acknowledged for what it is.
2 I acknowledge it, and I think if anyone is stupid enough to try and enter an Advanced queue with a sub-par build, then they deserve the consequences of that, such as not being able to get their hits in, getting AFKd etc. But. Someone should not have to think twice about entering a Borg or Tholian Red Alert, because their ship may not be able to keep up with the other players. Two very different things, which I'm sure you're well aware of, and just being deliberately disingenuous of.
If people want to participate in a mixed build environment - like the public queues and Red Alerts - then they should be properly outfitted and experienced enough to do so. If your skills and build cannot compete with others, 99.99% of the time that is on the player, not the game.
If.
3 And as we've discussed previously: The fact that The Game gives that same offer of potential to all players, DOES NOT translate into all players being able (or even wanting to) take advantage of that possibility. I'm happy with my vr gear, and don't see why I should spend out further on higher tier gear, just to be able to participate in Red Alerts.
If any player makes the conscious decision not to take advantage of what is available in the game to improve, then that is their decision and they must live with the consequences of that decision. Because you choose to stay with sub-par gear in no way means other people should do the same just to accommodate you. What you are saying with your last sentence is that you want to enjoy the same benefits as those who worked harder, invested more time and resources and practiced more than you. Life does not work like that.
Personally, I don't much care for upgrading stuff either. However, I want to remain competitive so I will do what I have to do in order to achieve that. I in no way expect anyone better equipped than me to dumb down their game just to match my level. I do expect those at a lesser performing level to me improve themselves. If I can do it, anyone can.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're using 'you' collectively. I have, and do, upgrade my gear and ships. As a result of the S13 changes, my personal favorite ship (T6) is no longer adequate for Red Alerts, so I had to upgrade it to a Dreadnought. A ship I don't even really like the look of. Paid for with cash, just because I had to update, to be able to undertake the Red Alerts. Paid for with cash, not grinding, cash. Just the Same as Galor, and the Ouroboros, and the second Dreadnought I bought at the same times (That's right, I bought them all at the same time, just as I will also be buying the Atlas, the Konstitution and a second Galor) So don't be under the impression that I'm not willing or able to make the upgrades. I can make them, but I object to having to do so, just because someone can't leave their DPS epeen in drydock for five minutes, and because they need to show off and curb-stomp a Red Alert. As I've said before, I'm not primarily talking about my own personal experience, I'm advocating for a more balanced gaming environment for everyone, and simply relating my own experience as to why I understand the need for more balancing in this type of content.
4 Again, deliberately missing the point that I don't care if someone is better than me. What I do care about, is the entitled narcissism and self-centered attitudes of DPSers who continue to say "We'll use our MegaBuilds wether you like it or not, Scrub!" I do care about having to spend my resources to upgrade stuff just to remain competitive with other competitors, who could just as easily stick to totally private runs with their MegaBuilds.
I am not missing anything. You are failing to see that you are just as narcissistic and self-centered as the next person. There are two sides to this coin and neither side is the correct one. It's just as easy for the casual player to create private runs for their sub-par builds as it is for high DPS players to create a private match.
You are missing it, brother, because you seem convinced that I care if someone else is better than me, or if I'm better or worse than anyone else, and thus doing the DPS Race because my ego needs the validation, no matter how many times I say that I'm not I didn't like that my previous build was insufficient for Red Alerts (not the DPS Race, but the Red Alert itself, because the ship couldn't regenerate as much as it used to) so I did something about it. People shouldn't have to do that though, just to be able to keep up with a MegaBuild on a curb-stomp. It's a subtle distinction, but it needs to be acknowledged, because that's the point I'm making, not the other
Creating private matches doesn't address the issue with the Red Alerts.
DPSers' collective attitude has shown that they can't be trusted with the cool toys, which sadly, means it has to be taken away... It can either be via more nerfs till morale improves, or It should be tier-locked content: No one higher, no one lower. I don't really care which.
You probably do not want tier-locked content either.
Oh man, are you that compelled to try and counter-point anything I say?? I've actively suggested tier-locked content many times throughout this conversation! I said, I'd like to see more nerfs, or tier-locked content as solutions to this issue, but that I don't really care which (although to be honest, I'm more in favor of tier-locking, because it solves the issue of mis-matched queues)
The whole game is tier-locked, so why not do the same with the Red Alerts?
Say some n00b (or even an existing player starting a new alt) leaves Admiral Quinn's office, and rather than playing Stranded in Space, decides to jump into Butterfly or Midnight with their T2 Miranda... Game's not going to let them do it, is it. So why not have the same mechanic in the RAs? I thought that that was the idea behind the PPS System.
If the issue is that there's not necessarily enough players of x tier to fill a run, then that's a sign that the RAs do need to be unlocked, but they would then also need to lose the AFK penalty, so it won't matter if someone winds up getting sidelined by a MegaBuild.
The game can't have it both ways: It can't insist on making everyone participate together, and then penalize those who are trying and failing, due to being over-shadowed by a MegaBuild. Now if the system was to detect actual 'hands off the keys' idling for more than twenty seconds in an RA (the same way it does when someone is AFK for an hour) then by all means, hit them with an AFK ban to discourage reward-leeching. Given the level of input activity an RA requires, I'd say that 20-30 seconds would be a reasonable indicator that someone is indeed just leeching, rather than someone who's Trying to participate, but not getting anywhere in a hurry
The Borg STFs used to be like that before the public queues. Only the few who had the right gear and teamwork could complete them and it led to a lot of crying on the forums.
You mean scrubs who never open their wallets, where whining that they either couldn't afford (or more likely couldn't be bothered to grind) to bring themself up to a suitable level? I wasn't here for that, but; "That's pretty funny!" - Geordi LaForge
It's not as if the game isn't easy enough already, I guess some people just want their lives spoon fed to them
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
This is a MMO ! a public game, you'll always have good players and you'll always have bad players, always mixed together in Public queues that's the nature of a Public queue.
The good players have to tolerate the bad ones, who can't keep up or jump into content that's out of their depth and the bad ones have to tolerate the good ones that decide to run content they are to skilled for.
So its give and take when it comes to the public queues. They are for EVERYBODY.
There's no and shouldn't be any thought for other players entering those matches, other than expecting them to be competent for the PvE they joined.
If you can't accept that then maybe you need to stop playing a public game and go back to single player gaming.
No good player is selfish for entering a public map because that's what the map is for, its for the public to join.
Can't handle that, go private matches or play something else.
OMG not this again. You can't say dpsers can't join a public queue because they may ruin someone's fun while not acknowledging that low dpsers can do the same to the high dpsers. Public queue is PUBLIC. Don't like it, make a private queue and shut up already about whi can and can join a PUBLIC queue.
Please see my above post to valoreah, as it covers what I would also say in response to your points
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I don't care how DPSers get their numbers... I do care that DPSers don't care that their fun negatively impacts others. If y'all can't even acknowledge that fact and modify your behaviour accordingly, then I hope the devs keep swinging the nerf bat till everyone is brought down to the same level, and you can't use the DPS MegaBuild, because all the fancy stuff has been totally neutered
Yeah, if they ever manage to nerf me down to current level of failpugs, I can guarantee *you* will be in so sad condition you can't beat even story missions on normal difficulty.
Having to resort to ad homs now?
No, he's merely saying exactly what valoreah said too:
Again, wishing for everyone to be nerfed to the point of everyone having equal gear is silly because it accomplishes nothing in the long run. There will always be someone better at the game than you.
And to be even more specific, taking myself as example, by the time tunebreaker has been nerfed to doing only 20k, I'd be doing 2k, was his point. Tl;dr: be careful what you wish for, nerf-happy people, you may get it... And then the game has become unplayable for all but 0.02% of the playerbase.
I took it as meaning that if someone like tunebreaker can't manage the content, then someone like me, definitely won't be able to, implying that I outright can't play the game. Having completed the content (apart from Mirrors and Smoke, I still haven't been able to bring myself to play it, I might do so in a minute) with nothing more than the in-game console drops and the T6 ship(s) I like(d) the look of, shows that I'm more than capable of completing the game without having to resort to DPS MegaBuilds. If all nerfing does, is bring stuff like kemo down in power, then big whoop, I never used it before, and to be honest, from my experiment today, I'm not overly impressed with it. So if nerfs bring all the super-high powered stuff down to the same level as everyone else, I wouldn't have any issue handling the game. I am able to make it out of spacedock without getting blown up
Personally, I'd rather see tier-locking rather than nerfs...
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
You are twisting it, because you're trying to narrate my intentions. I'm equally not commenting on DPSers intentions, but the effects of their builds, the affect it has on others, and their inability to acknowledge, let alone begin to address the behaviour. And yes, I was using firm words, because I don't believe people are aware of how toxic this mindset being collectively displayed by the DPSers is at its core.
There is absolutely nothing inherently 'toxic' about being good at the game! I really need to quote valoreah again "I'm not twisting anything. The words you chose to use are very confrontational and have a punitive tone toward anyone who has a high DPS build or disagrees with you. As to who belongs in private matches, again, this door swings both ways. Those with sub-par builds can do the same and create private matches." Pure logic.
There are really only 2 options: go private, and form your own group, or go public, and accept what's coming your way.
As far as someone of that mindset is concerned, as long as they get theirs, **** everyone and anyone else, and **** the notion of them behaving differently. It's an absolutely disgusting mindset, and needs to be acknowledged for what it is.
What exactly is 'disgusting'?! Good players pugging, and running the risk of encountering weaker players?! This is really going to bake your noodle, later on, but many of those weaker players probably welcome some high DPS-ers in their pug, as it tends to bolster their own numbers (and helps to increase their chances of not failing).
This DPS-er bashing is like attending the University of Cambridge, and then throw a rage jelly-fit because Prof. Hawking eminently outshines you. In a public place, you're simply bound to find ppl better than you -- and often by several orders of magnitude. And then you either put up, or step up.
gonna have to agree with OP here the mission que's alone are proof, I was in a fleet with about 30 guys spent tones of time and money perfecting there builds. when the nerf hit they lost 60% of there damage. now i don't know what you people are doing that are defending the changes made to the game PWE must be paying you or somthing cause you all are batshit crazy.
I don't care how DPSers get their numbers... I do care that DPSers don't care that their fun negatively impacts others. If y'all can't even acknowledge that fact and modify your behaviour accordingly, then I hope the devs keep swinging the nerf bat till everyone is brought down to the same level, and you can't use the DPS MegaBuild, because all the fancy stuff has been totally neutered
Yeah, if they ever manage to nerf me down to current level of failpugs, I can guarantee *you* will be in so sad condition you can't beat even story missions on normal difficulty.
Having to resort to ad homs now?
No, he's merely saying exactly what valoreah said too:
Again, wishing for everyone to be nerfed to the point of everyone having equal gear is silly because it accomplishes nothing in the long run. There will always be someone better at the game than you.
And to be even more specific, taking myself as example, by the time tunebreaker has been nerfed to doing only 20k, I'd be doing 2k, was his point. Tl;dr: be careful what you wish for, nerf-happy people, you may get it... And then the game has become unplayable for all but 0.02% of the playerbase.
I took it as meaning that if someone like tunebreaker can't manage the content, then someone like me, definitely won't be able to, implying that I outright can't play the game.
Not sure about you, but yeah, if tunebreaker can't manage the content, then someone like me definitely won't be able to, for certain. And there's no shame in that. Nor do I feel, in any way, shape or form, even remotely upset about it. He's simply the better player, by far. Meanwhile, I just do my own thingy.
gonna have to agree with OP here the mission que's alone are proof, I was in a fleet with about 30 guys spent tones of time and money perfecting there builds. when the nerf hit they lost 60% of there damage. now i don't know what you people are doing that are defending the changes made to the game PWE must be paying you or somthing cause you all are batshit crazy.
also want to add that the people in the fleet quit the game shortly after. so ya. all that talk about "but its better now" is totaly your prospective as for facts you are wrong.
So Silverlobes how do you feel about a Player like me ? who has been parsed with his strongest toon doing around 77k in a ISA.
Characters on my acc range between 28k-77k after the balance pass.
I don't build my ships to chase numbers as I personally have no parser installed to test and bench mark and fine tune, I find out my DPS from others who post it in team chat after a match.
And for me its like ok I can do this with this build, i'm happy to with that, and plod along.
I build my ships solely to be as strong as possible for the content I run to make the game more fun for myself. And to make sure that if i'm playing with others i'm as strong as I can be, so i'm not being carried by the others and being a hindrance to the teams success.
Is it wrong for me to enter Public Queues ? someone who doesn't chase numbers but has a strong build that could be classed a DPS build ?.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
FINALLY someone dispenses with the "muh mad skillz" BS and admits it's a spending contest.
In terms of the DPS Race, absolutely. All the fleet marks and dill needed for those fancy consoles costs, either in grinding, or hard cash. I forget exactly what Kemo used to cost, but when I started playing, I considered it out of my price range, as I was just nickel and diming my ec balance through what game drops I could recycle. Saving up for my first TR-116B like that, was a big deal for me. Now I know how to play the exchange, all my boffs have one But I won't ever forget how it felt to achieve that first goal. How looking at the in-game exchange at that level, stuff looked Crazy Out of Reach, and Kemo was one of those things. Now it's been nerfed, its price has fallen. But not only that, from what I've now seen using it, I'm just not that impressed :-\
Whatever was done in S13's code, meant my main build simply couldn't regenerate like it used to be able to, so I needed to upgrade to a stronger ship. Again, that costs money, and as I enjoy doing the RAs (as much for the R&D mats as exchange commodities as the pew pew pew) I didn't really have a choice about not spending. Sure, I could have kept my wallet closed, but that would mean sticking with a ship which had been rendered inadequate and spending the majority of RAs getting blown up and going keel up
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
What on Earth do you mean you "had" to change ships because of season 13? I haven't changed any ships or gear because of it. I did get a couple toons some new ships but that was because I wanted to, there was no need, I could have kept on flying exactly what I was without any negative effects whatsoever.
Do you think that just because Your experience is XYZ everyone else's experience will also be XYZ?
Like I've said already: My previous main build, was a regeneration build based on this concept. I didn't have any of the fancy consoles, just 7 turrets and a wide-angled quantum torpedo launcher, and things like nanite-infused circuitry (I did itemize the build a few pages back, and someone kindly worked out an estimate of the DPS output) It was able to sit in the middle of a Kazon mob, and when the shields eventually went down, they would just spring back at full power, and the hull would also regenerate every few seconds. It wasn't Unbeatable, but it took a Serious Pounding to do so. Since S13 was released, that regeneration appears to be only a third of what it previously was. RAs which had previously been handleable, no longer were, and the ship was getting blown up each grouping of cube/spheres it encountered. That never used to happen. So something must have been done in the code jiggling of the rebalance, to have affected the performance of the ship's systems.
So in order to bring myself back to the level I was at before, required upgrades. Simple as that.
[Adding link]
Post edited by silverlobes#2676 on
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
You are twisting it, because you're trying to narrate my intentions. I'm equally not commenting on DPSers intentions, but the effects of their builds, the affect it has on others, and their inability to acknowledge, let alone begin to address the behaviour. And yes, I was using firm words, because I don't believe people are aware of how toxic this mindset being collectively displayed by the DPSers is at its core.
There is absolutely nothing inherently 'toxic' about being good at the game!
And I never said there was anything toxic about being good at the game. There is, however, something very toxic about the attitude of 'get good or TRIBBLE off!' To go back to the examples like above, and apologies up front for the analogy, but I simply don't think people are getting the point I'm trying to make, and I can't think of any other comparison: Girl says to a new guy that she's not down with Door Number Two shenanigans. Guy proceeds to tell her "I don't care if you don't like it, that's what I'm doing..." So what's the girl supposed to do? Invest heavily in AstroGlide and pillows to bite, or stop hooking up with an inconsiderate jerk? Or, a better idea, is that the guy, should just learn to be considerate of what a girl tells him she does or does not like, and not be a predator, just because that's what he wants to do
There are really only 2 options: go private, and form your own group, or go public, and accept what's coming your way.
Or, the RAs get PPS tier-locked just like all the other content in the game.
What exactly is 'disgusting'?! Good players pugging, and running the risk of encountering weaker players?!
See above example of "I'm doing it anyway..."
This is really going to bake your noodle, later on, but many of those weaker players probably welcome some high DPS-ers in their pug, as it tends to bolster their own numbers (and helps to increase their chances of not failing).
And the weaker players who want to do something in a pug but cant, because the high DPSers've melted everything in the map before they can get their hits in? Do you think they welcome being beaten to the post? And to hear that the DPSers have no plans on ever doing otherwise? Again, see the above example of "I'm doing it anyway..."
This DPS-er bashing is like attending the University of Cambridge, and then throw a rage jelly-fit because Prof. Hawking eminently outshines you. In a public place, you're simply bound to find ppl better than you -- and often by several orders of magnitude. And then you either put up, or step up.
No, it's like, see the above example...
Not sure about you, but yeah, if tunebreaker can't manage the content, then someone like me definitely won't be able to, for certain. And there's no shame in that. Nor do I feel, in any way, shape or form, even remotely upset about it. He's simply the better player, by far. Meanwhile, I just do my own thingy.
So you're saying that tunebreaker needs his DPS MegaBuild to handle the game's Routine Content?!?!?
I don't know about you, but when I first started playing last year, I didn't have any difficulty progressing through the levels with the available ships and equipment. The first time I found upgrades needed, was when I needed to actually trade in the Constitution cruiser for the next ship up, because the Constitution had hit its performance wall. The next time I really noticed it, was setting foot in the trenches of Kobali Prime for the first time, and getting positively reamed by the Vaadwaur : Now with the right gear, I can run around the trenches with near-impunity, but on that first pass, it was walking into a Whole World of Pain.
When Sompek was released, in one match where I happened to be teamed with a known forum name, I was last player standing, and actually on my way to revive them when the lightning took my toon down too. So not to blow my own trumpet, but I'm not a bad player. By no means the best, but I can certainly cope with the content without needing to resort to MegaBuilds
Equally, the notion of MegaBuilds isn't to simply get through the content, but to scrape every bit of DPS efficiency available, to get a very specific map run done in better times. It's like the example I gave before about a computer at my old school having an Alphabet Timer game, where it would give a count for how fast someone could type the alphabet. After learning the key positions, it became a case of seeing who could 'make the moves quickest' and more an obsession/quest, rather than an enjoyable friendly competition of who could generally type the quickest
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
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Yeah, if they ever manage to nerf me down to current level of failpugs, I can guarantee *you* will be in so sad condition you can't beat even story missions on normal difficulty.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
"exploit" you use this but I don't think you know what it means. As you appear to have no actual knowledge of the game, how do you know what dps folks are doing? And they can swing the nerf bat as much as they like, I guarantee you will not be at the same level as many folks.
2 I acknowledge it, and I think if anyone is stupid enough to try and enter an Advanced queue with a sub-par build, then they deserve the consequences of that, such as not being able to get their hits in, getting AFKd etc. But. Someone should not have to think twice about entering a Borg or Tholian Red Alert, because their ship may not be able to keep up with the other players. Two very different things, which I'm sure you're well aware of, and just being deliberately disingenuous of.
3 And as we've discussed previously: The fact that The Game gives that same offer of potential to all players, DOES NOT translate into all players being able (or even wanting to) take advantage of that possibility. I'm happy with my vr gear, and don't see why I should spend out further on higher tier gear, just to be able to participate in Red Alerts.
4 Again, deliberately missing the point that I don't care if someone is better than me. What I do care about, is the entitled narcissism and self-centered attitudes of DPSers who continue to say "We'll use our MegaBuilds wether you like it or not, Scrub!" I do care about having to spend my resources to upgrade stuff just to remain competitive with other competitors, who could just as easily stick to totally private runs with their MegaBuilds.
DPSers' collective attitude has shown that they can't be trusted with the cool toys, which sadly, means it has to be taken away... It can either be via more nerfs till morale improves, or It should be tier-locked content: No one higher, no one lower. I don't really care which.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
So yeah, clueless. Exactly.
The good players have to tolerate the bad ones, who can't keep up or jump into content that's out of their depth and the bad ones have to tolerate the good ones that decide to run content they are to skilled for.
So its give and take when it comes to the public queues. They are for EVERYBODY.
There's no and shouldn't be any thought for other players entering those matches, other than expecting them to be competent for the PvE they joined.
If you can't accept that then maybe you need to stop playing a public game and go back to single player gaming.
No good player is selfish for entering a public map because that's what the map is for, its for the public to join.
Can't handle that, go private matches or play something else.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
No, he's merely saying exactly what valoreah said too:
And to be even more specific, taking myself as example, by the time tunebreaker has been nerfed to doing only 20k, I'd be doing 2k, was his point. Tl;dr: be careful what you wish for, nerf-happy people, you may get it... And then the game has become unplayable for all but 0.02% of the playerbase.
As far as someone of that mindset is concerned, as long as they get theirs, TRIBBLE everyone and anyone else, and TRIBBLE the notion of them behaving differently. It's an absolutely disgusting mindset, and needs to be acknowledged for what it is.
If.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're using 'you' collectively. I have, and do, upgrade my gear and ships. As a result of the S13 changes, my personal favorite ship (T6) is no longer adequate for Red Alerts, so I had to upgrade it to a Dreadnought. A ship I don't even really like the look of. Paid for with cash, just because I had to update, to be able to undertake the Red Alerts. Paid for with cash, not grinding, cash. Just the Same as Galor, and the Ouroboros, and the second Dreadnought I bought at the same times (That's right, I bought them all at the same time, just as I will also be buying the Atlas, the Konstitution and a second Galor) So don't be under the impression that I'm not willing or able to make the upgrades. I can make them, but I object to having to do so, just because someone can't leave their DPS epeen in drydock for five minutes, and because they need to show off and curb-stomp a Red Alert. As I've said before, I'm not primarily talking about my own personal experience, I'm advocating for a more balanced gaming environment for everyone, and simply relating my own experience as to why I understand the need for more balancing in this type of content.
You are missing it, brother, because you seem convinced that I care if someone else is better than me, or if I'm better or worse than anyone else, and thus doing the DPS Race because my ego needs the validation, no matter how many times I say that I'm not
Creating private matches doesn't address the issue with the Red Alerts.
The whole game is tier-locked, so why not do the same with the Red Alerts?
Say some n00b (or even an existing player starting a new alt) leaves Admiral Quinn's office, and rather than playing Stranded in Space, decides to jump into Butterfly or Midnight with their T2 Miranda... Game's not going to let them do it, is it. So why not have the same mechanic in the RAs? I thought that that was the idea behind the PPS System.
If the issue is that there's not necessarily enough players of x tier to fill a run, then that's a sign that the RAs do need to be unlocked, but they would then also need to lose the AFK penalty, so it won't matter if someone winds up getting sidelined by a MegaBuild.
The game can't have it both ways: It can't insist on making everyone participate together, and then penalize those who are trying and failing, due to being over-shadowed by a MegaBuild. Now if the system was to detect actual 'hands off the keys' idling for more than twenty seconds in an RA (the same way it does when someone is AFK for an hour) then by all means, hit them with an AFK ban to discourage reward-leeching. Given the level of input activity an RA requires, I'd say that 20-30 seconds would be a reasonable indicator that someone is indeed just leeching, rather than someone who's Trying to participate, but not getting anywhere in a hurry
It's not as if the game isn't easy enough already, I guess some people just want their lives spoon fed to them
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Personally, I'd rather see tier-locking rather than nerfs...
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
FINALLY someone dispenses with the "muh mad skillz" BS and admits it's a spending contest.
There is absolutely nothing inherently 'toxic' about being good at the game! I really need to quote valoreah again "I'm not twisting anything. The words you chose to use are very confrontational and have a punitive tone toward anyone who has a high DPS build or disagrees with you. As to who belongs in private matches, again, this door swings both ways. Those with sub-par builds can do the same and create private matches." Pure logic.
There are really only 2 options: go private, and form your own group, or go public, and accept what's coming your way.
What exactly is 'disgusting'?! Good players pugging, and running the risk of encountering weaker players?! This is really going to bake your noodle, later on, but many of those weaker players probably welcome some high DPS-ers in their pug, as it tends to bolster their own numbers (and helps to increase their chances of not failing).
This DPS-er bashing is like attending the University of Cambridge, and then throw a rage jelly-fit because Prof. Hawking eminently outshines you. In a public place, you're simply bound to find ppl better than you -- and often by several orders of magnitude. And then you either put up, or step up.
Not sure about you, but yeah, if tunebreaker can't manage the content, then someone like me definitely won't be able to, for certain.
Characters on my acc range between 28k-77k after the balance pass.
I don't build my ships to chase numbers as I personally have no parser installed to test and bench mark and fine tune, I find out my DPS from others who post it in team chat after a match.
And for me its like ok I can do this with this build, i'm happy to with that, and plod along.
I build my ships solely to be as strong as possible for the content I run to make the game more fun for myself. And to make sure that if i'm playing with others i'm as strong as I can be, so i'm not being carried by the others and being a hindrance to the teams success.
Is it wrong for me to enter Public Queues ? someone who doesn't chase numbers but has a strong build that could be classed a DPS build ?.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Whatever was done in S13's code, meant my main build simply couldn't regenerate like it used to be able to, so I needed to upgrade to a stronger ship. Again, that costs money, and as I enjoy doing the RAs (as much for the R&D mats as exchange commodities as the pew pew pew) I didn't really have a choice about not spending. Sure, I could have kept my wallet closed, but that would mean sticking with a ship which had been rendered inadequate and spending the majority of RAs getting blown up and going keel up
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Like I've said already: My previous main build, was a regeneration build based on this concept. I didn't have any of the fancy consoles, just 7 turrets and a wide-angled quantum torpedo launcher, and things like nanite-infused circuitry (I did itemize the build a few pages back, and someone kindly worked out an estimate of the DPS output) It was able to sit in the middle of a Kazon mob, and when the shields eventually went down, they would just spring back at full power, and the hull would also regenerate every few seconds. It wasn't Unbeatable, but it took a Serious Pounding to do so. Since S13 was released, that regeneration appears to be only a third of what it previously was. RAs which had previously been handleable, no longer were, and the ship was getting blown up each grouping of cube/spheres it encountered. That never used to happen. So something must have been done in the code jiggling of the rebalance, to have affected the performance of the ship's systems.
So in order to bring myself back to the level I was at before, required upgrades. Simple as that.
[Adding link]
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Or, the RAs get PPS tier-locked just like all the other content in the game.
See above example of "I'm doing it anyway..."
And the weaker players who want to do something in a pug but cant, because the high DPSers've melted everything in the map before they can get their hits in? Do you think they welcome being beaten to the post? And to hear that the DPSers have no plans on ever doing otherwise? Again, see the above example of "I'm doing it anyway..."
No, it's like, see the above example...
So you're saying that tunebreaker needs his DPS MegaBuild to handle the game's Routine Content?!?!?
I don't know about you, but when I first started playing last year, I didn't have any difficulty progressing through the levels with the available ships and equipment. The first time I found upgrades needed, was when I needed to actually trade in the Constitution cruiser for the next ship up, because the Constitution had hit its performance wall. The next time I really noticed it, was setting foot in the trenches of Kobali Prime for the first time, and getting positively reamed by the Vaadwaur
When Sompek was released, in one match where I happened to be teamed with a known forum name, I was last player standing, and actually on my way to revive them when the lightning took my toon down too. So not to blow my own trumpet, but I'm not a bad player. By no means the best, but I can certainly cope with the content without needing to resort to MegaBuilds
Equally, the notion of MegaBuilds isn't to simply get through the content, but to scrape every bit of DPS efficiency available, to get a very specific map run done in better times. It's like the example I gave before about a computer at my old school having an Alphabet Timer game, where it would give a count for how fast someone could type the alphabet. After learning the key positions, it became a case of seeing who could 'make the moves quickest' and more an obsession/quest, rather than an enjoyable friendly competition of who could generally type the quickest
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth