The logical fallacy is the idea that the rebalancing was done to make players more equal, when in reality it was to make SKILLS more equal.
This is to some extent, true. However, it was pretty obvious from the changes that the adjustments were also made to target the high-end meta and some effort was made to increase the low-end performance. There was some really specific targeting involved. Overall, those changes worked out well in my opinion. However, I think we need more alternatives for the mid-end since the S13 changes have raised the costs of building a high-end (on-meta) ship.
Well, where would you start looking for things that are over-performing? Realistically, overperforming stuff will only be uncommon if it's like Kemo used to be and too hard to find for most to use it.
By alternatives, I do not mean over-performing stuff. It's just that with the change to healing (both passive, item-based and some BOff powers) and embassy consoles, there was a shift to lockbox and lobi items for high-end builds on the new meta. It might be a steep curve to climb for newer players.
I don't think it would be a viable alternative for Cryptic to nerf these lobi/lockbox items too. That might cause some really heavy backlash given how expensive it is to accumulate lobi.
Oh man, that's exactly what I did on my Avenger build, and thought it was working pretty well...
Four dual phaser cannons and wide-angle quantum torpedo launched in the front, and three phaser beams in the back. All mk xii vr stuff.
I'm a fairly good pilot. Not the best, but I do okay, and it was put together on the concept of working off the coverage of each weapon's firing arc, with the 'target rich environment' of the Tholian Red Alert in mind. I figured that BFAWII could be left to take care of the random targets that whunquestionably going to be behind and to the sides, while I focussed on lining up a specific target directly ahead for the cannons.
I always thought the ship handled itself pretty well. Sure, I need to spend on the upgrade token or even buy an Arbiter for some extra hull strength, it could blow up on occasion, but as a whole, it seems to do quite nicely, because pretty much everything was getting covered by the beams, with anything directly ahead, getting the cannon barrage
Is mixing the two sets looked down on as compromizing on system efficiency because it's not the same weapons type?
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> @silverlobes#2676 said: > nikeix wrote: » > > "Why should I not mix beams and cannons" quiz. > > > > Oh man, that's exactly what I did on my Avenger build, and thought it was working pretty well... > > Four dual phaser cannons and wide-angle quantum torpedo launched in the front, and three phaser beams in the back. All mk xii vr stuff. > > I'm a fairly good pilot. Not the best, but I do okay, and it was put together on the concept of working off the coverage of each weapon's firing arc, with the 'target rich environment' of the Tholian Red Alert in mind. I figured that BFAWII could be left to take care of the random targets that whunquestionably going to be behind and to the sides, while I focussed on lining up a specific target directly ahead for the cannons. > > I always thought the ship handled itself pretty well. Sure, I need to spend on the upgrade token or even buy an Arbiter for some extra hull strength, it could blow up on occasion, but as a whole, it seems to do quite nicely, because pretty much everything was getting covered by the beams, with anything directly ahead, getting the cannon barrage > > Is mixing the two sets looked down on as compromizing on system efficiency because it's not the same weapons type?
Yeah, this pretty much sums up why I stopped pugging.
> @silverlobes#2676 said:
> nikeix wrote: »
>
> "Why should I not mix beams and cannons" quiz.
>
>
>
> Oh man, that's exactly what I did on my Avenger build, and thought it was working pretty well...
>
> Four dual phaser cannons and wide-angle quantum torpedo launched in the front, and three phaser beams in the back. All mk xii vr stuff.
>
> I'm a fairly good pilot. Not the best, but I do okay, and it was put together on the concept of working off the coverage of each weapon's firing arc, with the 'target rich environment' of the Tholian Red Alert in mind. I figured that BFAWII could be left to take care of the random targets that whunquestionably going to be behind and to the sides, while I focussed on lining up a specific target directly ahead for the cannons.
>
> I always thought the ship handled itself pretty well. Sure, I need to spend on the upgrade token or even buy an Arbiter for some extra hull strength, it could blow up on occasion, but as a whole, it seems to do quite nicely, because pretty much everything was getting covered by the beams, with anything directly ahead, getting the cannon barrage
>
> Is mixing the two sets looked down on as compromizing on system efficiency because it's not the same weapons type?
Yeah, this pretty much sums up why I stopped pugging.
How do you mean? What made you stop pugging?
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Before S13 it didn't matter what the other pugs in an isa did, for example, I could easily carry the map nice and quickly. Everyone got the rewards and we all got to use a build we liked. Nice and efficient. Now it's much more of a pain in the TRIBBLE to carry a team. So when you get folks punting in on lower dps boats, scattering spheres about, dropping gwell on the transformers etc, I just can't be arsed with the effort. It's two sided, you think dpsers ruin your fun by completing a map quickly, you ruin mine by slowing it down. Just the way the game is. Same kinda thing happened when they re-organised queues into the normal, advanced and elite queues and ramped up the hp bloat. Took a while to get back to comfortably being able to carry a run.
Before S13 it didn't matter what the other pugs in an isa did, for example, I could easily carry the map nice and quickly. Everyone got the rewards and we all got to use a build we liked. Nice and efficient. Now it's much more of a pain in the **** to carry a team. So when you get folks punting in on lower dps boats, scattering spheres about, dropping gwell on the transformers etc, I just can't be arsed with the effort. It's two sided, you think dpsers ruin your fun by completing a map quickly, you ruin mine by slowing it down. Just the way the game is. Same kinda thing happened when they re-organised queues into the normal, advanced and elite queues and ramped up the hp bloat. Took a while to get back to comfortably being able to carry a run.
Glad to be the anchor dragging you down
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> @silverlobes#2676 said: > mmps1 wrote: » > > Before S13 it didn't matter what the other pugs in an isa did, for example, I could easily carry the map nice and quickly. Everyone got the rewards and we all got to use a build we liked. Nice and efficient. Now it's much more of a pain in the **** to carry a team. So when you get folks punting in on lower dps boats, scattering spheres about, dropping gwell on the transformers etc, I just can't be arsed with the effort. It's two sided, you think dpsers ruin your fun by completing a map quickly, you ruin mine by slowing it down. Just the way the game is. Same kinda thing happened when they re-organised queues into the normal, advanced and elite queues and ramped up the hp bloat. Took a while to get back to comfortably being able to carry a run. > > > > Glad to be the anchor dragging you down
Or you could git gud. Works both ways see?
And then you ninja edit your post. Yet more terrible posting.
> @silverlobes#2676 said:
> mmps1 wrote: »
>
> Before S13 it didn't matter what the other pugs in an isa did, for example, I could easily carry the map nice and quickly. Everyone got the rewards and we all got to use a build we liked. Nice and efficient. Now it's much more of a pain in the **** to carry a team. So when you get folks punting in on lower dps boats, scattering spheres about, dropping gwell on the transformers etc, I just can't be arsed with the effort. It's two sided, you think dpsers ruin your fun by completing a map quickly, you ruin mine by slowing it down. Just the way the game is. Same kinda thing happened when they re-organised queues into the normal, advanced and elite queues and ramped up the hp bloat. Took a while to get back to comfortably being able to carry a run.
>
>
>
> Glad to be the anchor dragging you down
Or you could git gud. Works both ways see?
"I could but to do so would require considerable effort on my part..." - Forgotten Source.
Define 'git good': Oh, you mean play with someone else's approved idea of a ship and build, and do exactly this and exactly that to get this exact result? Sorry, I'm not that OCD, and prefer self-determination :cool: If you'd care to make some suggestions as to how I can improve my build (keeping within the same framework) I'd be interested to hear them
And then you ninja edit your post. Yet more terrible posting.
And what if I did? Perhaps you should petition the devs to nerf the edit function, so people can't change their minds about what they post
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
You appear to do less dps than pets and are apparently proud of it. If you think doing dps is merely about copying a build you are only, yet again, showing your ignorance. Git Gud in your case would be doing more than a fleet support npc.
I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that.
You appear to do less dps than pets and are apparently proud of it. If you think doing dps is merely about copying a build you are only, yet again, showing your ignorance. Git Gud in your case would be doing more than a fleet support npc.
I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that.
And I invited you to make suggestions on how I could improve the build. You've refused the invitation, only to post even more derogatory bile.
And you seem to be operating under the delusion that you are the arbiter and announcer of quality. That's pretty sad.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> @silverlobes#2676 said: > mmps1 wrote: » > > You appear to do less dps than pets and are apparently proud of it. If you think doing dps is merely about copying a build you are only, yet again, showing your ignorance. Git Gud in your case would be doing more than a fleet support npc. > > I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that. > > > > And I invited you to make suggestions on how I could improve the build. You've refused the invitation, only to post even more derogatory bile. > > And you seem to be operating under the delusion that you are the arbiter and announcer of quality. That's pretty sad.
Not as sad as your build mate. Have fun getting carried
> @silverlobes#2676 said:
> mmps1 wrote: »
>
> You appear to do less dps than pets and are apparently proud of it. If you think doing dps is merely about copying a build you are only, yet again, showing your ignorance. Git Gud in your case would be doing more than a fleet support npc.
>
> I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that.
>
>
>
> And I invited you to make suggestions on how I could improve the build. You've refused the invitation, only to post even more derogatory bile.
>
> And you seem to be operating under the delusion that you are the arbiter and announcer of quality. That's pretty sad.
Not as sad as your build mate. Have fun getting carried
I sure will Thanks for those superawesome suggestions I can try out so I can Git Gud
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> @silverlobes#2676 said: > mmps1 wrote: » > > > @silverlobes#2676 said: > > mmps1 wrote: » > > > > You appear to do less dps than pets and are apparently proud of it. If you think doing dps is merely about copying a build you are only, yet again, showing your ignorance. Git Gud in your case would be doing more than a fleet support npc. > > > > I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that. > > > > > > > > And I invited you to make suggestions on how I could improve the build. You've refused the invitation, only to post even more derogatory bile. > > > > And you seem to be operating under the delusion that you are the arbiter and announcer of quality. That's pretty sad. > > Not as sad as your build mate. Have fun getting carried > > > > I sure will Thanks for those superawesome suggestions I can try out so I can Git Gud
Or go look at resources yourself? You know, learn, like others have. I ain't here to spoon feed you son. Git gud on your own time.
Is mixing the two sets looked down on as compromizing on system efficiency because it's not the same weapons type?
I'll just put all that aside and make an attempt at answering your question.
Mixing Beams and Canons is simply considered 'sub optimal.' It can be done in certain cases like when using a Surgical Strike build, but those require specific ships and have fallen out of favor due to.. you guessed it.. nerfs.
On your ship you're hurting yourself for a number of reasons. Beams and Cannons each use different tactical skills (Fire at Will/Overload vs. Scatter Volley/Rapid Fire.) This means that you have to stretch your already limited amount of bridge officer slots trying to squeeze in enough for both sets of weapons. This limits your build possibilities and handicaps you in Engineering and Science if you're having to always use Universal stations for Tactical. Add to that the fact that Beam and Cannon skills share a cool down it hinders you even further. If a ship is in your forward arc and you use Scatter Volley or Rapid fire, it puts your Fire At Will on cool down. If the target then zips behind you, you cannot activate your beam skills because they're recharging.
Another downside is the fact that you cannot keep all your weapons on target at once. When you're facing forward and firing on a target, your aft weapons cannot fire because they cannot aim forward. When enemies are behind you, you cannot fire your cannons.
You could massively improve your performance by picking between cannons or beams. If you like the Cannons, then put turrets in your aft. Turrets can fire forward with your cannons and turrets are buffed by your cannon skills. If you opt to go beams, then either put single beams in all your slots and 'broadside' by keeping enemies off to your sides, or put omni beams in your aft so that they can fire with your front beams.
Your current method is fine for story line content and even red alerts if other team members can pick up the slack. If you're going to run queues with that set up, you would be best served limiting yourself to Normal. In advanced or above you will require others to pick up the slack for you.
If you have specific build questions, feel free to PM me or start another thread so we don't risk derailing this thread. Good luck, and most importantly.. do what's fun for you.
> @silverlobes#2676 said:
> mmps1 wrote: »
>
> > @silverlobes#2676 said:
> > mmps1 wrote: »
> >
> > You appear to do less dps than pets and are apparently proud of it. If you think doing dps is merely about copying a build you are only, yet again, showing your ignorance. Git Gud in your case would be doing more than a fleet support npc.
> >
> > I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that.
> >
> >
> >
> > And I invited you to make suggestions on how I could improve the build. You've refused the invitation, only to post even more derogatory bile.
> >
> > And you seem to be operating under the delusion that you are the arbiter and announcer of quality. That's pretty sad.
>
> Not as sad as your build mate. Have fun getting carried
>
>
>
> I sure will Thanks for those superawesome suggestions I can try out so I can Git Gud
Or go look at resources yourself? You know, learn, like others have. I ain't here to spoon feed you son. Git gud on your own time.
Riiiight, you're just here to act like the Big I Am, thinking you're some Gatekeeper of the SacredWisdom, which you'll brandish, but not reveal to the lowly. A bit like when, back in the day, church services used to be delivered in Latin, to peasants who only spoke their version of English, and most likely couldn't read or right it. Or the insecure employee who tries to hang on to their job, by trying to keep information about The Process to themself, in the idea that it makes them a valuable team member. That's you. A sad little bully scared to get knocked off his perch.
Like they say on Pandora: I see you...
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I completely disagree with the idea that this game, or the Devs, are greedy. This is flat out the least greedy mmo I've ever played. With the exception of LTS/Vet rewards everything in the game, from zen store items to lockbox/promo prizes, can be obtained with spending any money at all & this is just about the only mmo I have ever even heard of where thats possible (maybe Neverwinter, but their "Dillex" is fubar). You certainly can't do that in SWTOR where the majority of story content & simple QOL stuff like bank access is behind a paywall. Can't do it in DDO, same reasons as TOR. In fact the only one that I know of that allows you to get cash store currency in game is EVE, where your most likely to have it stolen by another player while loosing your very hard earned ship permanently.
'Greedy', relative not to other games, but to itself. Aka, post-DR, the wicked cost of having to Upgrade everything (to bring your gear to where it was before: at endgame level), shot up astronomically. My point was, that people kinda put up with that (but many did not, and left, leaving the queues in a problematic state), and that those who hung in there, and *did* do all the Upgrading, then got majorly nerfed come S13. And that, to some people, being hit over the head twice like that, is probably what broke the camel's back, queue-wise.
The logical fallacy is the idea that the rebalancing was done to make players more equal, when in reality it was to make SKILLS more equal.
This is to some extent, true. However, it was pretty obvious from the changes that the adjustments were also made to target the high-end meta and some effort was made to increase the low-end performance. There was some really specific targeting involved. Overall, those changes worked out well in my opinion. However, I think we need more alternatives for the mid-end since the S13 changes have raised the costs of building a high-end (on-meta) ship.
Well, where would you start looking for things that are over-performing? Realistically, overperforming stuff will only be uncommon if it's like Kemo used to be and too hard to find for most to use it.
By alternatives, I do not mean over-performing stuff. It's just that with the change to healing (both passive, item-based and some BOff powers) and embassy consoles, there was a shift to lockbox and lobi items for high-end builds on the new meta. It might be a steep curve to climb for newer players.
I don't think it would be a viable alternative for Cryptic to nerf these lobi/lockbox items too. That might cause some really heavy backlash given how expensive it is to accumulate lobi.
Given how unmercifully they nerfed Kemo? hah! I do suspect that the cost to acquire might be taken into consideration, but even then that's a matter of degree, and not carte blanche.
> @silverlobes#2676 said: > mmps1 wrote: » > > > @silverlobes#2676 said: > > mmps1 wrote: » > > > > > @silverlobes#2676 said: > > > mmps1 wrote: » > > > > > > You appear to do less dps than pets and are apparently proud of it. If you think doing dps is merely about copying a build you are only, yet again, showing your ignorance. Git Gud in your case would be doing more than a fleet support npc. > > > > > > I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > And I invited you to make suggestions on how I could improve the build. You've refused the invitation, only to post even more derogatory bile. > > > > > > And you seem to be operating under the delusion that you are the arbiter and announcer of quality. That's pretty sad. > > > > Not as sad as your build mate. Have fun getting carried > > > > > > > > I sure will Thanks for those superawesome suggestions I can try out so I can Git Gud > > Or go look at resources yourself? You know, learn, like others have. I ain't here to spoon feed you son. Git gud on your own time. > > > > Riiiight, you're just here to act like the Big I Am, thinking you're some Gatekeeper of the SacredWisdom, which you'll brandish, but not reveal to the lowly. A bit like when, back in the day, church services used to be delivered in Latin, to peasants who only spoke their version of English, and most likely couldn't read or right it. Or the insecure employee who tries to hang on to their job, by trying to keep information about The Process to themself, in the idea that it makes them a valuable team member. That's you. A sad little bully scared to get knocked off his perch. > > Like they say on Pandora: I see you...
Nah I just have no interest in helping you, cause your posts are so terrible.
Is mixing the two sets looked down on as compromizing on system efficiency because it's not the same weapons type?
I'll just put all that aside and make an attempt at answering your question.
Mixing Beams and Canons is simply considered 'sub optimal.' It can be done in certain cases like when using a Surgical Strike build, but those require specific ships and have fallen out of favor due to.. you guessed it.. nerfs.
On your ship you're hurting yourself for a number of reasons. Beams and Cannons each use different tactical skills (Fire at Will/Overload vs. Scatter Volley/Rapid Fire.) This means that you have to stretch your already limited amount of bridge officer slots trying to squeeze in enough for both sets of weapons. This limits your build possibilities and handicaps you in Engineering and Science if you're having to always use Universal stations for Tactical. Add to that the fact that Beam and Cannon skills share a cool down it hinders you even further. If a ship is in your forward arc and you use Scatter Volley or Rapid fire, it puts your Fire At Will on cool down. If the target then zips behind you, you cannot activate your beam skills because they're recharging.
Another downside is the fact that you cannot keep all your weapons on target at once. When you're facing forward and firing on a target, your aft weapons cannot fire because they cannot aim forward. When enemies are behind you, you cannot fire your cannons.
You could massively improve your performance by picking between cannons or beams. If you like the Cannons, then put turrets in your aft. Turrets can fire forward with your cannons and turrets are buffed by your cannon skills. If you opt to go beams, then either put single beams in all your slots and 'broadside' by keeping enemies off to your sides, or put omni beams in your aft so that they can fire with your front beams.
Your current method is fine for story line content and even red alerts if other team members can pick up the slack. If you're going to run queues with that set up, you would be best served limiting yourself to Normal. In advanced or above you will require others to pick up the slack for you.
If you have specific build questions, feel free to PM me or start another thread so we don't risk derailing this thread. Good luck, and most importantly.. do what's fun for you.
Thanks for the advice I'd need to log in to check the setup, but yes, I was definitely using the universal slot for an extra tactical boff with Tactical Team I, and Cannon Rapid Fire, and the Main tactical boff, I think was Tactical Team I, BFAWII and CRF II (The ens tactical was likely Spread I) It's not the ship I primarily use for content, just when hitting Red Alerts, I haven't checked the layout since S13 was launched, and my recollection of the layout is sketchy (Probably caught Irumodic Syndrome that time on Risa...)
Ironically, on other builds I do tend to use turrets, but as mentioned, for this, I was going for what I thought would give fairly general all round target acquisition on the various stuff Not directly in front, while allowing for the cannons to then be brought to bear on a specific target. I hadn't considered the conflict between the cooldowns, primarily because of using CRF II and BFAW II with CRF available as an 'if needed' extra firing cycle. I guess I got that wrong.
With regards the queue level, I don't even use the UI to select level tiers, I just click the flashing red button, and join the queue it dumpt me at, which I'll guess are Normal level
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> @silverlobes#2676 said:
> mmps1 wrote: »
>
> > @silverlobes#2676 said:
> > mmps1 wrote: »
> >
> > > @silverlobes#2676 said:
> > > mmps1 wrote: »
> > >
> > > You appear to do less dps than pets and are apparently proud of it. If you think doing dps is merely about copying a build you are only, yet again, showing your ignorance. Git Gud in your case would be doing more than a fleet support npc.
> > >
> > > I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And I invited you to make suggestions on how I could improve the build. You've refused the invitation, only to post even more derogatory bile.
> > >
> > > And you seem to be operating under the delusion that you are the arbiter and announcer of quality. That's pretty sad.
> >
> > Not as sad as your build mate. Have fun getting carried
> >
> >
> >
> > I sure will Thanks for those superawesome suggestions I can try out so I can Git Gud
>
> Or go look at resources yourself? You know, learn, like others have. I ain't here to spoon feed you son. Git gud on your own time.
>
>
>
> Riiiight, you're just here to act like the Big I Am, thinking you're some Gatekeeper of the SacredWisdom, which you'll brandish, but not reveal to the lowly. A bit like when, back in the day, church services used to be delivered in Latin, to peasants who only spoke their version of English, and most likely couldn't read or right it. Or the insecure employee who tries to hang on to their job, by trying to keep information about The Process to themself, in the idea that it makes them a valuable team member. That's you. A sad little bully scared to get knocked off his perch.
>
> Like they say on Pandora: I see you...
Nah I just have no interest in helping you, cause your posts are so terrible.
Once again proving the point, that you're just a sad little bully. Best of luck getting through life with that attitude, son
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Sea of Sorrows gives good advice. Try swapping over to all pew-pew or all zap-zap I your weapon slots. It'll up your damage so much you'll either kill the thing in front of you and turn around and erase the stuff behind you (pew pew) or just burn down everything in all directions (zap zap) .
> @ltminns said: > 'Will no one rid me of these turbulent posts?' > > To sum this Thread up, its 'blah, blah, blah' vs. 'yada, yada, yada'. 'You guys stink' vs. 'you guys take the fun out of everything'. > > https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BAomAwIwxm8 > >
> @silverlobes#2676 said: > mmps1 wrote: » > > > @silverlobes#2676 said: > > mmps1 wrote: » > > > > > @silverlobes#2676 said: > > > mmps1 wrote: » > > > > > > > @silverlobes#2676 said: > > > > mmps1 wrote: » > > > > > > > > You appear to do less dps than pets and are apparently proud of it. If you think doing dps is merely about copying a build you are only, yet again, showing your ignorance. Git Gud in your case would be doing more than a fleet support npc. > > > > > > > > I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And I invited you to make suggestions on how I could improve the build. You've refused the invitation, only to post even more derogatory bile. > > > > > > > > And you seem to be operating under the delusion that you are the arbiter and announcer of quality. That's pretty sad. > > > > > > Not as sad as your build mate. Have fun getting carried > > > > > > > > > > > > I sure will Thanks for those superawesome suggestions I can try out so I can Git Gud > > > > Or go look at resources yourself? You know, learn, like others have. I ain't here to spoon feed you son. Git gud on your own time. > > > > > > > > Riiiight, you're just here to act like the Big I Am, thinking you're some Gatekeeper of the SacredWisdom, which you'll brandish, but not reveal to the lowly. A bit like when, back in the day, church services used to be delivered in Latin, to peasants who only spoke their version of English, and most likely couldn't read or right it. Or the insecure employee who tries to hang on to their job, by trying to keep information about The Process to themself, in the idea that it makes them a valuable team member. That's you. A sad little bully scared to get knocked off his perch. > > > > Like they say on Pandora: I see you... > > Nah I just have no interest in helping you, cause your posts are so terrible. > > > > Once again proving the point, that you're just a sad little bully. Best of luck getting through life with that attitude, son
Sea of Sorrows gives good advice. Try swapping over to all pew-pew or all zap-zap I your weapon slots. It'll up your damage so much you'll either kill the thing in front of you and turn around and erase the stuff behind you (pew pew) or just burn down everything in all directions (zap zap) .
Thanks, I'll give it a try when I next get round to logging on to the game
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Kemo had it coming. The "nerf" itself wasn't that heavy. It was simply compounded due to how broken the skill was:
Kemo would activate even if you did not activate the skills. If you had Kemo 1,2 and 3 in your tac slots, all of them would activate even if you did not click on them.
When you activate kemo, it will proc twice, on top of the activation of all other slotted kemo abilities.
Fixing those two contributed to the largest chunk of decreased performance from kemo. Of course they nerfed it on top of that, but it is still rather good today.
Oh, you mean play with someone else's approved idea of a ship and build, and do exactly this and exactly that to get this exact result?
@seaofsorrows already highlighted why you usually wouldn't want to mix beams and cannons but I'd like to address this line.
You don't have to copy someone's build to "git gud". If you know enough of the game's mechanics, you can actually start getting creative and make builds that are off the beaten path. If it weren't for various people that applied their knowledge of game mechanics to come up with very creative build approaches, many of today's torp builds, science builds, pvp builds, tanking builds, healing builds and even the "meta" FAW builds wouldn't exist. Some of the builds they made flew against conventional wisdom, and surprised many of the effectiveness of their builds.
If you really want to get better, try to understand why people make the choices they make in their ship builds. Once you understand that, apply that knowledge to make your own informed decisions.
I am. I stand corrected, and apologize for my conduct. My only interest, was for everyone to have a fair opportunity within the game.
Everyone does have a fair opportunity within the game.
That's such a broad-stroke statement, that without context, it's effectively meaningless. I'd certainly agree that everyone playing the game has the same Potential for opportunity; in so much as anyone has the opportunity to learn to do what anyone else does. But when players are pointing out that they can't even get a hit in in queues because someone with a DPS MegaBuild has cleaned the map, then no, they clearly don't have a fair opportunity. And players are definitely pointing that out, so it's hardly a baseless complaint. Perhaps that's why the devs came up with the PPS idea.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Oh, you mean play with someone else's approved idea of a ship and build, and do exactly this and exactly that to get this exact result?
@seaofsorrows already highlighted why you usually wouldn't want to mix beams and cannons but I'd like to address this line.
You don't have to copy someone's build to "git gud". If you know enough of the game's mechanics, you can actually start getting creative and make builds that are off the beaten path. If it weren't for various people that applied their knowledge of game mechanics to come up with very creative build approaches, many of today's torp builds, science builds, pvp builds, tanking builds, healing builds and even the "meta" FAW builds wouldn't exist. Some of the builds they made flew against conventional wisdom, and surprised many of the effectiveness of their builds.
If you really want to get better, try to understand why people make the choices they make in their ship builds. Once you understand that, apply that knowledge to make your own informed decisions.
Thank you for the advice
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Comments
By alternatives, I do not mean over-performing stuff. It's just that with the change to healing (both passive, item-based and some BOff powers) and embassy consoles, there was a shift to lockbox and lobi items for high-end builds on the new meta. It might be a steep curve to climb for newer players.
I don't think it would be a viable alternative for Cryptic to nerf these lobi/lockbox items too. That might cause some really heavy backlash given how expensive it is to accumulate lobi.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Four dual phaser cannons and wide-angle quantum torpedo launched in the front, and three phaser beams in the back. All mk xii vr stuff.
I'm a fairly good pilot. Not the best, but I do okay, and it was put together on the concept of working off the coverage of each weapon's firing arc, with the 'target rich environment' of the Tholian Red Alert in mind. I figured that BFAWII could be left to take care of the random targets that whunquestionably going to be behind and to the sides, while I focussed on lining up a specific target directly ahead for the cannons.
I always thought the ship handled itself pretty well. Sure, I need to spend on the upgrade token or even buy an Arbiter for some extra hull strength, it could blow up on occasion, but as a whole, it seems to do quite nicely, because pretty much everything was getting covered by the beams, with anything directly ahead, getting the cannon barrage
Is mixing the two sets looked down on as compromizing on system efficiency because it's not the same weapons type?
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> nikeix wrote: »
>
> "Why should I not mix beams and cannons" quiz.
>
>
>
> Oh man, that's exactly what I did on my Avenger build, and thought it was working pretty well...
>
> Four dual phaser cannons and wide-angle quantum torpedo launched in the front, and three phaser beams in the back. All mk xii vr stuff.
>
> I'm a fairly good pilot. Not the best, but I do okay, and it was put together on the concept of working off the coverage of each weapon's firing arc, with the 'target rich environment' of the Tholian Red Alert in mind. I figured that BFAWII could be left to take care of the random targets that whunquestionably going to be behind and to the sides, while I focussed on lining up a specific target directly ahead for the cannons.
>
> I always thought the ship handled itself pretty well. Sure, I need to spend on the upgrade token or even buy an Arbiter for some extra hull strength, it could blow up on occasion, but as a whole, it seems to do quite nicely, because pretty much everything was getting covered by the beams, with anything directly ahead, getting the cannon barrage
>
> Is mixing the two sets looked down on as compromizing on system efficiency because it's not the same weapons type?
Yeah, this pretty much sums up why I stopped pugging.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> mmps1 wrote: »
>
> Before S13 it didn't matter what the other pugs in an isa did, for example, I could easily carry the map nice and quickly. Everyone got the rewards and we all got to use a build we liked. Nice and efficient. Now it's much more of a pain in the **** to carry a team. So when you get folks punting in on lower dps boats, scattering spheres about, dropping gwell on the transformers etc, I just can't be arsed with the effort. It's two sided, you think dpsers ruin your fun by completing a map quickly, you ruin mine by slowing it down. Just the way the game is. Same kinda thing happened when they re-organised queues into the normal, advanced and elite queues and ramped up the hp bloat. Took a while to get back to comfortably being able to carry a run.
>
>
>
> Glad to be the anchor dragging you down
Or you could git gud. Works both ways see?
And then you ninja edit your post. Yet more terrible posting.
Define 'git good': Oh, you mean play with someone else's approved idea of a ship and build, and do exactly this and exactly that to get this exact result? Sorry, I'm not that OCD, and prefer self-determination :cool: If you'd care to make some suggestions as to how I can improve my build (keeping within the same framework) I'd be interested to hear them
And what if I did? Perhaps you should petition the devs to nerf the edit function, so people can't change their minds about what they post
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that.
And you seem to be operating under the delusion that you are the arbiter and announcer of quality. That's pretty sad.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> mmps1 wrote: »
>
> You appear to do less dps than pets and are apparently proud of it. If you think doing dps is merely about copying a build you are only, yet again, showing your ignorance. Git Gud in your case would be doing more than a fleet support npc.
>
> I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that.
>
>
>
> And I invited you to make suggestions on how I could improve the build. You've refused the invitation, only to post even more derogatory bile.
>
> And you seem to be operating under the delusion that you are the arbiter and announcer of quality. That's pretty sad.
Not as sad as your build mate. Have fun getting carried
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> mmps1 wrote: »
>
> > @silverlobes#2676 said:
> > mmps1 wrote: »
> >
> > You appear to do less dps than pets and are apparently proud of it. If you think doing dps is merely about copying a build you are only, yet again, showing your ignorance. Git Gud in your case would be doing more than a fleet support npc.
> >
> > I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that.
> >
> >
> >
> > And I invited you to make suggestions on how I could improve the build. You've refused the invitation, only to post even more derogatory bile.
> >
> > And you seem to be operating under the delusion that you are the arbiter and announcer of quality. That's pretty sad.
>
> Not as sad as your build mate. Have fun getting carried
>
>
>
> I sure will
Or go look at resources yourself? You know, learn, like others have. I ain't here to spoon feed you son. Git gud on your own time.
I'll just put all that aside and make an attempt at answering your question.
Mixing Beams and Canons is simply considered 'sub optimal.' It can be done in certain cases like when using a Surgical Strike build, but those require specific ships and have fallen out of favor due to.. you guessed it.. nerfs.
On your ship you're hurting yourself for a number of reasons. Beams and Cannons each use different tactical skills (Fire at Will/Overload vs. Scatter Volley/Rapid Fire.) This means that you have to stretch your already limited amount of bridge officer slots trying to squeeze in enough for both sets of weapons. This limits your build possibilities and handicaps you in Engineering and Science if you're having to always use Universal stations for Tactical. Add to that the fact that Beam and Cannon skills share a cool down it hinders you even further. If a ship is in your forward arc and you use Scatter Volley or Rapid fire, it puts your Fire At Will on cool down. If the target then zips behind you, you cannot activate your beam skills because they're recharging.
Another downside is the fact that you cannot keep all your weapons on target at once. When you're facing forward and firing on a target, your aft weapons cannot fire because they cannot aim forward. When enemies are behind you, you cannot fire your cannons.
You could massively improve your performance by picking between cannons or beams. If you like the Cannons, then put turrets in your aft. Turrets can fire forward with your cannons and turrets are buffed by your cannon skills. If you opt to go beams, then either put single beams in all your slots and 'broadside' by keeping enemies off to your sides, or put omni beams in your aft so that they can fire with your front beams.
Your current method is fine for story line content and even red alerts if other team members can pick up the slack. If you're going to run queues with that set up, you would be best served limiting yourself to Normal. In advanced or above you will require others to pick up the slack for you.
If you have specific build questions, feel free to PM me or start another thread so we don't risk derailing this thread. Good luck, and most importantly.. do what's fun for you.
Like they say on Pandora: I see you...
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
'Greedy', relative not to other games, but to itself. Aka, post-DR, the wicked cost of having to Upgrade everything (to bring your gear to where it was before: at endgame level), shot up astronomically. My point was, that people kinda put up with that (but many did not, and left, leaving the queues in a problematic state), and that those who hung in there, and *did* do all the Upgrading, then got majorly nerfed come S13. And that, to some people, being hit over the head twice like that, is probably what broke the camel's back, queue-wise.
My character Tsin'xing
> mmps1 wrote: »
>
> > @silverlobes#2676 said:
> > mmps1 wrote: »
> >
> > > @silverlobes#2676 said:
> > > mmps1 wrote: »
> > >
> > > You appear to do less dps than pets and are apparently proud of it. If you think doing dps is merely about copying a build you are only, yet again, showing your ignorance. Git Gud in your case would be doing more than a fleet support npc.
> > >
> > > I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And I invited you to make suggestions on how I could improve the build. You've refused the invitation, only to post even more derogatory bile.
> > >
> > > And you seem to be operating under the delusion that you are the arbiter and announcer of quality. That's pretty sad.
> >
> > Not as sad as your build mate. Have fun getting carried
> >
> >
> >
> > I sure will
>
> Or go look at resources yourself? You know, learn, like others have. I ain't here to spoon feed you son. Git gud on your own time.
>
>
>
> Riiiight, you're just here to act like the Big I Am, thinking you're some Gatekeeper of the SacredWisdom, which you'll brandish, but not reveal to the lowly. A bit like when, back in the day, church services used to be delivered in Latin, to peasants who only spoke their version of English, and most likely couldn't read or right it. Or the insecure employee who tries to hang on to their job, by trying to keep information about The Process to themself, in the idea that it makes them a valuable team member. That's you. A sad little bully scared to get knocked off his perch.
>
> Like they say on Pandora: I see you...
Nah I just have no interest in helping you, cause your posts are so terrible.
Ironically, on other builds I do tend to use turrets, but as mentioned, for this, I was going for what I thought would give fairly general all round target acquisition on the various stuff Not directly in front, while allowing for the cannons to then be brought to bear on a specific target. I hadn't considered the conflict between the cooldowns, primarily because of using CRF II and BFAW II with CRF available as an 'if needed' extra firing cycle. I guess I got that wrong.
With regards the queue level, I don't even use the UI to select level tiers, I just click the flashing red button, and join the queue it dumpt me at, which I'll guess are Normal level
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
To sum this Thread up, its 'blah, blah, blah' vs. 'yada, yada, yada'. 'You guys stink' vs. 'you guys take the fun out of everything'.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
> 'Will no one rid me of these turbulent posts?'
>
> To sum this Thread up, its 'blah, blah, blah' vs. 'yada, yada, yada'. 'You guys stink' vs. 'you guys take the fun out of everything'.
>
>
>
>
Typical forum post then?
> mmps1 wrote: »
>
> > @silverlobes#2676 said:
> > mmps1 wrote: »
> >
> > > @silverlobes#2676 said:
> > > mmps1 wrote: »
> > >
> > > > @silverlobes#2676 said:
> > > > mmps1 wrote: »
> > > >
> > > > You appear to do less dps than pets and are apparently proud of it. If you think doing dps is merely about copying a build you are only, yet again, showing your ignorance. Git Gud in your case would be doing more than a fleet support npc.
> > > >
> > > > I pointed out your posts were yet again terrible. Not sure how petitioning the forum owners would change that.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And I invited you to make suggestions on how I could improve the build. You've refused the invitation, only to post even more derogatory bile.
> > > >
> > > > And you seem to be operating under the delusion that you are the arbiter and announcer of quality. That's pretty sad.
> > >
> > > Not as sad as your build mate. Have fun getting carried
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I sure will
> >
> > Or go look at resources yourself? You know, learn, like others have. I ain't here to spoon feed you son. Git gud on your own time.
> >
> >
> >
> > Riiiight, you're just here to act like the Big I Am, thinking you're some Gatekeeper of the SacredWisdom, which you'll brandish, but not reveal to the lowly. A bit like when, back in the day, church services used to be delivered in Latin, to peasants who only spoke their version of English, and most likely couldn't read or right it. Or the insecure employee who tries to hang on to their job, by trying to keep information about The Process to themself, in the idea that it makes them a valuable team member. That's you. A sad little bully scared to get knocked off his perch.
> >
> > Like they say on Pandora: I see you...
>
> Nah I just have no interest in helping you, cause your posts are so terrible.
>
>
>
> Once again proving the point, that you're just a sad little bully. Best of luck getting through life with that attitude, son
You can't even shitpost properly. Just terrible.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Kemo had it coming. The "nerf" itself wasn't that heavy. It was simply compounded due to how broken the skill was:
Fixing those two contributed to the largest chunk of decreased performance from kemo. Of course they nerfed it on top of that, but it is still rather good today.
@seaofsorrows already highlighted why you usually wouldn't want to mix beams and cannons but I'd like to address this line.
You don't have to copy someone's build to "git gud". If you know enough of the game's mechanics, you can actually start getting creative and make builds that are off the beaten path. If it weren't for various people that applied their knowledge of game mechanics to come up with very creative build approaches, many of today's torp builds, science builds, pvp builds, tanking builds, healing builds and even the "meta" FAW builds wouldn't exist. Some of the builds they made flew against conventional wisdom, and surprised many of the effectiveness of their builds.
If you really want to get better, try to understand why people make the choices they make in their ship builds. Once you understand that, apply that knowledge to make your own informed decisions.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth