It doesn't make ANY sense to award CPvP marks in a NON-PvP encounter. None.
...until I saw the Geko connection.
Well, neither does awarding iconian marks for a non-iconian encounter...but there it is.
Actually, it does since ALL marks except CPvP are PvE scenerio based.
CPvP marks were part of the PvP revamp, and should've been kept as part of PvP ONLY encounters IMHO.
From that narrow perspective, I can even see your point. But, as I said elsewhere, you can't really do that in an MMO. You can't start having 'lanes' that are perceived as inaccessible to 99% of your player base. Even 1 was pushing it. Because ppl will start to feel either excluded, or (worse, from a business perspective) simply decide the game is not for them any more. They valiantly tried, in the hope it would take, but it didn't.
As for PvP, STO is a PvE game at heart. It's like when CCP tried to shove Incarna (YAY, Barbie in Space!) down people's throat, in EvE Online: people heavily resisted it, because it was counter to the PvP nature of their game. Same here, where the vast majority simply doesn't want to do PvP in a PvE game.
CPvP marks were part of the PvP revamp, and should've been kept as part of PvP ONLY encounters IMHO.
Simple question. Why do you prefer that approach, rather than some creative effort to make PVP encounters appealing enough that people would actually choose to play them?
As Meimeitoo explains further down this page, the majority of players are anti-PvP and have to be 'enticed' to play content other than what their used to (or want to play). IF the game is rewarding players with stuff ONLY usable in PvP, why would they make it possible (and extremely easy) to get that stuff by NOT doing any PvP at all ? I just don't see how it makes any sense.
I don't prefer the 'carrot and stick' approach to get players to play outside of their comfort zone, but I guess it doesn't make any difference now that they've killed it and just give everyone carrots for basically doing nothing new.
It doesn't make ANY sense to award CPvP marks in a NON-PvP encounter. None.
...until I saw the Geko connection.
Well, neither does awarding iconian marks for a non-iconian encounter...but there it is.
Actually, it does since ALL marks except CPvP are PvE scenerio based.
CPvP marks were part of the PvP revamp, and should've been kept as part of PvP ONLY encounters IMHO.
From that narrow perspective, I can even see your point. But, as I said elsewhere, you can't really do that in an MMO. You can't start having 'lanes' that are perceived as inaccessible to 99% of your player base. Even 1 was pushing it. Because ppl will start to feel either excluded, or (worse, from a business perspective) simply decide the game is not for them any more. They valiantly tried, in the hope it would take, but it didn't.
As for PvP, STO is a PvE game at heart. It's like when CCP tried to shove Incarna (YAY, Barbie in Space!) down people's throat, in EvE Online: people heavily resisted it, because it was counter to the PvP nature of their game. Same here, where the vast majority simply doesn't want to do PvP in a PvE game.
Yer right.
STO is a single player game at heart.
It's a Fed centered game by design.
It's written to make money, and advertise for the property.
I've been away for a while, forgive me. I forgot what I'm playing here. carry on.
I haven't tried the new Competative Rep trees yet, so I will skip talking about them, for now.
In general, I have to admit that I am getting tired of a vast majority of the PVE's in the game because there isn't much actual team play involved. My favorites (Days of Doom, Brotherhood of the Sword and Gateway to G'rethor) all require a good amount of teamwork in order to actually accomplish anything. The favorites (Glares at Crystalline Catastrophe) are in their purest form just blow this up and you get stuff and you don't need other people to do it.
I would not mind seeing more missions that required people to work together to get things done or revamping older missions to fit that theme.
Small side tangent: Please make an advanced Fed and KDF fleet alert missions, the basic ones are too easy.
CPvP marks were part of the PvP revamp, and should've been kept as part of PvP ONLY encounters IMHO.
interessting, as only 1 of 3 Competetive Maps has a true PvP encounter.
So only Core Assault should award the Marks in your opinion?
ha - well played.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
As Meimeitoo explains further down this page, the majority of players are anti-PvP and have to be 'enticed' to play content other than what their used to (or want to play). IF the game is rewarding players with stuff ONLY usable in PvP, why would they make it possible (and extremely easy) to get that stuff by NOT doing any PvP at all ? I just don't see how it makes any sense.
I don't prefer the 'carrot and stick' approach to get players to play outside of their comfort zone, but I guess it doesn't make any difference now that they've killed it and just give everyone carrots for basically doing nothing new.
You're taking a narrow view of the rewards and where they apply.
Also, "PvP for the sake of itself, above all other priorities" is not a universal sentiment for everyone involved.
It doesn't make ANY sense to award CPvP marks in a NON-PvP encounter. None.
...until I saw the Geko connection.
Well, neither does awarding iconian marks for a non-iconian encounter...but there it is.
Actually, it does since ALL marks except CPvP are PvE scenerio based.
CPvP marks were part of the PvP revamp, and should've been kept as part of PvP ONLY encounters IMHO.
Wrong. The competitive wargames reputation has nothing to do with PvP and the associated PvE queues have very little to do with PvP either (as in, optional PvP in one room of one queue that nobody wants to play).
There also has not been any kind of PvP revamp and likely never will be.
Yer right.
STO is a single player game at heart.
It's a Fed centered game by design.
It's written to make money, and advertise for the property.
I've been away for a while, forgive me. I forgot what I'm playing here. carry on.
WRONG...
STO is NOT a single player game. It is still an MMO and this view is very subjective to an individual's perception.
I play all the time with friends and my fleet and can dispute the notion that is a "single" player game. I have been here since it launched and that is what keeps attracting me to this game.."people".
Some come and go...but others come along again and personally I have had more meaningful social interactions that at times in real life. Again depends on your perspective. It shouldn't be generalized to validate a point.
Secondly, it (STO) was originally designed with KDF then Romulans in mind. The game evolved into FED-centric not by design but by player's preference. I still love to play KDF but most players (as in it is empty queus) opt for FED centric. You have the OPTION but most choose to play FED.
Last, I might tend to agree partially but actually the money comes to "exploit" players feelings to obtain the latest shiniest. Most want the coolest ship or coolest console. Nobody writes that but based it on players emotions to get what they "want".
Before F2P, I could definitely agree it was written to make money through what we know now as the Cstore. However, now with F2P and the addition of lockboxes...there is money to be made NOT on written design but on players emotions.
Last, I might tend to agree partially but actually the money comes to "exploit" players feelings to obtain the latest shiniest. Most want the coolest ship or coolest console. Nobody writes that but based it on players emotions to get what they "want".
Before F2P, I could definitely agree it was written to make money through what we know now as the C-store. However, now with F2P and the addition of lockboxes...there is money to be made NOT on written design but on players emotions.
Yer right.
STO is a single player game at heart.
It's a Fed centered game by design.
It's written to make money, and advertise for the property.
I've been away for a while, forgive me. I forgot what I'm playing here. carry on.
WRONG...
STO is NOT a single player game. It is still an MMO
Actually, STO is a bit of both. It's an MMO, to a certain degree, in that you mission in queued teams and all. But Cryptic also knows, very well, that this is a casual game. Sure, it'd be nice if you have an Engi healer on your team, but Cryptic designed the game in such a way, that you don't need one per se. In fact, they made it so that you, the individual, can be completely self-reliant, for the most part. People want to come home, pew-pew a bit, and then turn in. They'd rage-quit soon enough if they couldn't succeed if they had to rely on the team for their survival, for instance. WAI.
If any rep failed, it was the lukari. Nobody plays the queues and I don't even know if they still haven't fixed the battlezone. I actually had to do the marks to advanced trinket conversion project for the first time ever when getting the costume unlock, simply because nobody plays the content that would reward the trinkets.
And the Battlezone was borked in giving out the Protomatter Containers.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
When originally starting the thread, my main thought process behind the 'fail' was more geared toward the cpvepvp part. The whole Rep is geared toward pvp, and to appear like they were going to revamp it. Or at least generate new interest. From that point of view I think it is a failure. Rewards are only useful for pvp and there is only any real pvp in 1 of 3 new queues. That is a failure in my books. Now almost no one does core assault as pug plays are usually being ganked by a 5 man premade that they just blow up the pugs and wait for them to drop the mission in frustration. Sorry but this was the last nail in the pvp coffin for STO. The Dev's can now officially say we tried and do nothing more.
Now almost no one does core assault as pug plays are usually being ganked by a 5 man premade that they just blow up the pugs and wait for them to drop the mission in frustration.
Hmmm...I can't even see how they can fix this. ^^^^
Other than remove the ability for players to attack other players.
Then, what was the point of doing this Competitive stuff?
Maybe make Competitive a: PvP and a PvE map...to be queued for separately. Cryptic doesn't seem to have a problem with making multiple queues of the same thing, anyways. Then players choose the "difficulty" they would like to try...so let the players pick: PvP or PvE (like they decide between Normal and Advanced, now).
How would these Competitive Queues work with 2 teams of PVP players, anyways?
Would that be more like what is needed???
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Now almost no one does core assault as pug plays are usually being ganked by a 5 man premade that they just blow up the pugs and wait for them to drop the mission in frustration.
Hmmm...I can't even see how they can fix this. ^^^^
Other than remove the ability for players to attack other players.
Then, what was the point of doing this Competitive stuff?
Maybe make Competitive a: PvP and a PvE map...to be queued for separately. Cryptic doesn't seem to have a problem with making multiple queues of the same thing, anyways. Then players choose the "difficulty" they would like to try...so let the players pick: PvP or PvE (like they decide between Normal and Advanced, now).
How would these Competitive Queues work with 2 teams of PVP players, anyways?
Would that be more like what is needed???
Twin Tribulation already IS Core Assault with the attacking other players removed.
Twin Tribulation already IS Core Assault with the attacking other players removed.
LOL! Too funny.
What are they trying for with all this???
IS IT EVEN USEFUL FOR PVP??? YET??? Or EVER???
Other than previous mentioned "ganking"????
Are they trying for content they think will be more interesting for Console players and testing it on PC to see how it goes???? I assume they don't want to have to make different stuff for both. Or something. Noticed that trend.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Years ago I used to pvp in this game before all the silly stuff got added and then there became less skill and more money and gimmicks. Pve and pvp builds are very different. I have stomped so many players with just my pve build, and seen so many others get stomped in their pve builds.
I also ran into a couple good pvpers who target me repeatly as I tried to take down the core. I got my hat handed to me many times as my pug was not pvp ready and I was attacked by multiple guys with skill.
Now personally I don't mind getting stomped as I am rusty and the build is pve specific, it's just the nature of pvp. I also made them work to take me down. It's something you just get used to when you are a so so pvp player as I was/am.
Point is, I think the general pve crowd that makes up 99% of the games population will get tired of those poundings real quick and just q up enough to get marks to complete the Rep and then it goes into the trash bin of unused que's.
It was an nice idea, but really you can't force pvp on people, you either like it or you don't. Things got broke years ago and nothing has changed.
P.s. I miss Captainhorizan. Take it to those dirty KDF captain! Oh wait we are all on the same side now.;-)
I finished up the reputation two days ago. I'd read that PvP was broken and pay to win for quite a while, but I thought it was completely ridiculous when I saw players outrunning my Scramble Sensors attack in Core Assault Adv. I even tried PvPing a few times during the rep to give it a good faith try.
The invulnerabilities are annoying but the outrunning of that ability (not being defeated) showed me how ridiculous the PvP endevour was for me.
The invulnerabilities are annoying but the outrunning of that ability (not being defeated) showed me how ridiculous the PvP endevour was for me.
Don't PvP myself, but why is it, when people find even the smallest counter to their Alpha-Strike, the attacker immediately enters their whambulance, and proceeds to drive to the forums, to complain, waaaa, that they can't win?! I applaud these counters!
Years ago I used to pvp in this game before all the silly stuff got added and then there became less skill and more money and gimmicks. Pve and pvp builds are very different. I have stomped so many players with just my pve build, and seen so many others get stomped in their pve builds.
I also ran into a couple good pvpers who target me repeatly as I tried to take down the core. I got my hat handed to me many times as my pug was not pvp ready and I was attacked by multiple guys with skill.
Now personally I don't mind getting stomped as I am rusty and the build is pve specific, it's just the nature of pvp. I also made them work to take me down. It's something you just get used to when you are a so so pvp player as I was/am.
Point is, I think the general pve crowd that makes up 99% of the games population will get tired of those poundings real quick and just q up enough to get marks to complete the Rep and then it goes into the trash bin of unused que's.
It was an nice idea, but really you can't force pvp on people, you either like it or you don't. Things got broke years ago and nothing has changed.
P.s. I miss Captainhorizan. Take it to those dirty KDF captain! Oh wait we are all on the same side now.;-)
Oh well this CPvE is actually dead. Not sure what the hype was for PVP since turned out to be a disaster for cryptic like Delta Rising was.
Comments
From that narrow perspective, I can even see your point. But, as I said elsewhere, you can't really do that in an MMO. You can't start having 'lanes' that are perceived as inaccessible to 99% of your player base. Even 1 was pushing it. Because ppl will start to feel either excluded, or (worse, from a business perspective) simply decide the game is not for them any more. They valiantly tried, in the hope it would take, but it didn't.
As for PvP, STO is a PvE game at heart. It's like when CCP tried to shove Incarna (YAY, Barbie in Space!) down people's throat, in EvE Online: people heavily resisted it, because it was counter to the PvP nature of their game. Same here, where the vast majority simply doesn't want to do PvP in a PvE game.
As Meimeitoo explains further down this page, the majority of players are anti-PvP and have to be 'enticed' to play content other than what their used to (or want to play). IF the game is rewarding players with stuff ONLY usable in PvP, why would they make it possible (and extremely easy) to get that stuff by NOT doing any PvP at all ? I just don't see how it makes any sense.
I don't prefer the 'carrot and stick' approach to get players to play outside of their comfort zone, but I guess it doesn't make any difference now that they've killed it and just give everyone carrots for basically doing nothing new.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Yer right.
STO is a single player game at heart.
It's a Fed centered game by design.
It's written to make money, and advertise for the property.
I've been away for a while, forgive me. I forgot what I'm playing here. carry on.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
In general, I have to admit that I am getting tired of a vast majority of the PVE's in the game because there isn't much actual team play involved. My favorites (Days of Doom, Brotherhood of the Sword and Gateway to G'rethor) all require a good amount of teamwork in order to actually accomplish anything. The favorites (Glares at Crystalline Catastrophe) are in their purest form just blow this up and you get stuff and you don't need other people to do it.
I would not mind seeing more missions that required people to work together to get things done or revamping older missions to fit that theme.
Small side tangent: Please make an advanced Fed and KDF fleet alert missions, the basic ones are too easy.
ha - well played.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
You're taking a narrow view of the rewards and where they apply.
Also, "PvP for the sake of itself, above all other priorities" is not a universal sentiment for everyone involved.
There also has not been any kind of PvP revamp and likely never will be.
WRONG...
STO is NOT a single player game. It is still an MMO and this view is very subjective to an individual's perception.
I play all the time with friends and my fleet and can dispute the notion that is a "single" player game. I have been here since it launched and that is what keeps attracting me to this game.."people".
Some come and go...but others come along again and personally I have had more meaningful social interactions that at times in real life. Again depends on your perspective. It shouldn't be generalized to validate a point.
Secondly, it (STO) was originally designed with KDF then Romulans in mind. The game evolved into FED-centric not by design but by player's preference. I still love to play KDF but most players (as in it is empty queus) opt for FED centric. You have the OPTION but most choose to play FED.
Last, I might tend to agree partially but actually the money comes to "exploit" players feelings to obtain the latest shiniest. Most want the coolest ship or coolest console. Nobody writes that but based it on players emotions to get what they "want".
Before F2P, I could definitely agree it was written to make money through what we know now as the Cstore. However, now with F2P and the addition of lockboxes...there is money to be made NOT on written design but on players emotions.
I fully agree with this.
Actually, STO is a bit of both. It's an MMO, to a certain degree, in that you mission in queued teams and all. But Cryptic also knows, very well, that this is a casual game. Sure, it'd be nice if you have an Engi healer on your team, but Cryptic designed the game in such a way, that you don't need one per se. In fact, they made it so that you, the individual, can be completely self-reliant, for the most part. People want to come home, pew-pew a bit, and then turn in. They'd rage-quit soon enough if they couldn't succeed if they had to rely on the team for their survival, for instance. WAI.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Rewards are only useful for pvp and there is only any real pvp in 1 of 3 new queues. That is a failure in my books.
Now almost no one does core assault as pug plays are usually being ganked by a 5 man premade that they just blow up the pugs and wait for them to drop the mission in frustration. Sorry but this was the last nail in the pvp coffin for STO. The Dev's can now officially say we tried and do nothing more.
*looks at it* looks about the same as anything else. more for the new queues then for pvp. and even that looks like a minor effect.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Hmmm...I can't even see how they can fix this. ^^^^
Other than remove the ability for players to attack other players.
Then, what was the point of doing this Competitive stuff?
Maybe make Competitive a: PvP and a PvE map...to be queued for separately. Cryptic doesn't seem to have a problem with making multiple queues of the same thing, anyways. Then players choose the "difficulty" they would like to try...so let the players pick: PvP or PvE (like they decide between Normal and Advanced, now).
How would these Competitive Queues work with 2 teams of PVP players, anyways?
Would that be more like what is needed???
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
LOL! Too funny.
What are they trying for with all this???
IS IT EVEN USEFUL FOR PVP??? YET??? Or EVER???
Other than previous mentioned "ganking"????
Are they trying for content they think will be more interesting for Console players and testing it on PC to see how it goes???? I assume they don't want to have to make different stuff for both. Or something. Noticed that trend.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I finished up the reputation two days ago. I'd read that PvP was broken and pay to win for quite a while, but I thought it was completely ridiculous when I saw players outrunning my Scramble Sensors attack in Core Assault Adv. I even tried PvPing a few times during the rep to give it a good faith try.
The invulnerabilities are annoying but the outrunning of that ability (not being defeated) showed me how ridiculous the PvP endevour was for me.
Don't PvP myself, but why is it, when people find even the smallest counter to their Alpha-Strike, the attacker immediately enters their whambulance, and proceeds to drive to the forums, to complain, waaaa, that they can't win?! I applaud these counters!
Oh well this CPvE is actually dead. Not sure what the hype was for PVP since turned out to be a disaster for cryptic like Delta Rising was.
Original STO beta tester.