I think competitive pve will ultimately fail

newromulan

Years ago I used to pvp in this game before all the silly stuff got added and then there became less skill and more money and gimmicks. Pve and pvp builds are very different. I have stomped so many players with just my pve build, and seen so many others get stomped in their pve builds.

I also ran into a couple good pvpers who target me repeatly as I tried to take down the core. I got my hat handed to me many times as my pug was not pvp ready and I was attacked by multiple guys with skill.
Now personally I don't mind getting stomped as I am rusty and the build is pve specific, it's just the nature of pvp. I also made them work to take me down. It's something you just get used to when you are a so so pvp player as I was/am.

Point is, I think the general pve crowd that makes up 99% of the games population will get tired of those poundings real quick and just q up enough to get marks to complete the Rep and then it goes into the trash bin of unused que's.

It was an nice idea, but really you can't force pvp on people, you either like it or you don't. Things got broke years ago and nothing has changed.

P.s. I miss Captainhorizan. Take it to those dirty KDF captain! Oh wait we are all on the same side now.;-)

cirran1

We can only hope that this is the case and move on to much more productive things.

Cirran

wildeye042

Yep. Expecting a good PvP experience from a bunch of random players with widely different skills, builds, and experience is futile. It's a team map with no teams, for the most part. If it were fleet v. fleet or some other pre-built combination, that would be interesting, though. Not sure why Cryptic thought a PvP map would work before they had even fixed PvP.

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dracounguis

I'm sure Cryptic hopes it takes off... so they can then have a whole new avenue to sell players stuff for $$$. Nothing like P2W PvP!

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mustrumridcully0

Have you counted the number of Marks you got for this little PvP venture?

peterconnorfirst

Threads like these make me cry.

The new maps are the best thing cryptic released in ages. They are motivating, challenging, fun and pay out awesomely. DPSer, PvPer, peeps with intuition and foresight, leaders and coordinators, all can contribute, all are welcome.

One week after the season release my 10 toons already got enough marks to max out the new rep (1x1250 + 9x625). I never managed something like this before in my STO life and this only underlines how much I like the new content.

I played the new ground map multiple times each day and contradicting to what some of the Numbers DPS admins claimed in their videos the new map plays smooth even in most pug runs.

4 out of 5 runs I do I experience a close chase with the opposing team by the way.

Winning abstracts to 4,5k Dil in like 5-10 minutes for the ground map in elite. The map is sold for my daily play and will be for long even after all reput quests are done.

My friends and I are just getting started and Invite each and everybody in this game to join in and compete.

Salute!

peterconnorfirst

newromulan#1567 wrote: »

I also ran into a couple good pvpers who target me repeatly as I tried to take down the core. I got my hat handed to me many times as my pug was not pvp ready and I was attacked by multiple guys with skill.
Now personally I don't mind getting stomped as I am rusty and the build is pve specific, it's just the nature of pvp. I also made them work to take me down. It's something you just get used to when you are a so so pvp player as I was/am.

Point is, I think the general pve crowd that makes up 99% of the games population will get tired of those poundings real quick and just q up enough to get marks to complete the Rep and then it goes into the trash bin of unused que's.

What hindered you from destroying the enemy core long before the evil PvPers of the opposing team entered the final stage? I mean you claim to have a PvE specific build which should include some DPS.

salazarraze

The players asked for something different. They finally gave us something different but the truth is that many of you are lazy and wanted a re-skinned ISA or CCA.

szim

I'm very much enjoying the new ground queue, the space one not so much. I hope "Twin Tribulations" will be more fun when they release it.

meimeitoo

salazarraze wrote: »

The players asked for something different. They finally gave us something different but the truth is that many of you are lazy and wanted a re-skinned ISA or CCA.

Nah. I was happy with what we had.

A PvP revamp had been promised for a very long time. What they came up with, is proably the best they could do, considering your average casual player can't be prodded to do PvP if their very lives depended on it (I'm in said category, btw). Still, the idea of joining a queue for fun, only to have some gankers take you out repeatedly, that wasn't fun for me in EvE Online, and I doubt it will be here.

Still, gotta give Cryptic props for trying. And on coming thru on their word that they'd seriously look into PvP.

tunebreaker

peterconnorfirst wrote: »

Threads like these make me cry.

The new maps are the best thing cryptic released in ages. They are motivating, challenging, fun and pay out awesomely. DPSer, PvPer, peeps with intuition and foresight, leaders and coordinators, all can contribute, all are welcome.

One week after the season release my 10 toons already got enough marks to max out the new rep (1x1250 + 9x625). I never managed something like this before in my STO life and this only underlines how much I like the new content.

I played the new ground map multiple times each day and contradicting to what some of the Numbers DPS admins claimed in their videos the new map plays smooth even in most pug runs.

4 out of 5 runs I do I experience a close chase with the opposing team by the way.

Winning abstracts to 4,5k Dil in like 5-10 minutes for the ground map in elite. The map is sold for my daily play and will be for long even after all reput quests are done.

My friends and I are just getting started and Invite each and everybody in this game to join in and compete.

Salute!

While I can't say I've had that smooth experiences in pugs as often as Peter here is describing, this post still resembles my thoughts as well. I found new CPvE queues very engaging and fun to play and it's certainly something Cryptic has done very right, imo.

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ashstorm1

I have to agree with that, and i really don't mind facing a core breach several times in the course of the competitive queue, even moreso than in a classic PvE queue, because I know for sure and fully accept that there are players out there who are far more dangerous than ten Borg cubes, far better PvPers than i, and who will vaporize me in mere seconds anyway. That said, i don't aim at becoming better at PvP anyway, because i do not like it overall, and not just in STO. I've been strictly keeping to PvE in my 12+ years of online gaming, and all in all PvP has never been my thing.

The one issue i have with these queues is that certain people you're teamed with will let their toxic "better than thou" side take the better of them, and start becoming verbally abusive in team chat, threathening you with a GM report in case of failure (!!!), and overall being a**holes. At that point, it's no longer a matter of bruised ego, but of basic mutual respect between players.

Now, i do not take the report menace seriously, mind you XD... What i do take *seriously*, however, are the direct insults, threats, and verbal abuse This... THIS is report material in my book.

taylor1701d

Nice post my friend - @peterconnorfirst

I love the new queues myself.

peterconnorfirst

Thanks for the support @tuenbreaker, @mattjohnsonva & @taylor1701d.

My fleet mates and I already had the fortune to be chased by Tune and his Sci-wizards through the cooperative cube. God they gave us a run for our money. I hope to meet the other two of you in there as well sometime.

thunderfoot

I sincerely hope you are wrong, OP. The people who enjoy playing PvP deserve something from this game after years of neglect by the Devs and unjustified abuse from the rest of the playerbase. I only dabble occasionally in PvP and only within my Fleet. But anything which benefits the PvP part of the playerbase is a good thing IMV.

I also view these queues as a decent start to the resurrection of quality PvP within STO. Not as a end state.

lordsteve1

I've been having a blast in the new queues, both with TSC friends and pug runs.
Both have had success and failure but above all else they have been entertaining and not the same of ISA spam feat the game was becoming.
Nice to have a couple of queues that you need to thinknon your feet through as well and aren't just mindless shooting all the while. In fact even the shooty bits require some thought and planning; how do I deal with 20 TR spewing Breen in the early stages, or so I hunt down players butbrisk my core in the final stage.
All good fun and the rewards are extremely good for what time it takes.

Sure I've been vaped a few times and had my TRIBBLE handed to me, but I've done my fair share of that too and I'm not a PVP player by any means.

At the end of the day players want new content, Cryptic provided it. What more do people want, more ISA easy-play shooting galleries? Or something with some challenge.
Plus, they can't get decent AI to add challenge to PVE, so the alternative is to remove the need for AI; have the players fight each other. That's as challenging as you can get in video games.

nccmax2

ultimately you are wrong, see what i did there .

meimeitoo

mattjohnsonva wrote: »

I suppose, but that's really sad, losing is the best way of learning, and learning to be good at something is reward in itself,

If you *want* to learn how to PvP, yes. And even then, getting vaped teaches you nothing, except for realizing you got suckered in against your better judgement.

As for fragile ego's, dunno about that. But I *do* see a lot of veiled anxiety here over maybe soon running out of easy targets to kill. Which is another reason I'll pass: I dont play for someone else to get their jollies off at my expense.

burstorion

thunderfoot006 wrote: »

I sincerely hope you are wrong, OP. The people who enjoy playing PvP deserve something from this game after years of neglect by the Devs and unjustified abuse from the rest of the playerbase. I only dabble occasionally in PvP and only within my Fleet. But anything which benefits the PvP part of the playerbase is a good thing IMV.

I also view these queues as a decent start to the resurrection of quality PvP within STO. Not as a end state.

So when are the kdf going to get a season dedicated to them?

nimbull

I'm mostly running it to grind out the rep on one toon. After that I think I'll pass for alts. That being said, doing one game a day over the weekend gets enough marks to run the rep projects through the week without having to queue up. More so depending on when you queue you'll most likely get teams who have no idea or care on what to actually do and it's easy to breeze through the Core mission. I've yet to encounter other players in the mission from the other team. They're usually stuck on a door somewhere. Finally the gear to me is underwhelming since I don't really PvP to begin with.

peterconnorfirst

nimbull wrote: »

I'm mostly running it to grind out the rep on one toon. After that I think I'll pass for alts. That being said, doing one game a day over the weekend gets enough marks to run the rep projects through the week without having to queue up. More so depending on when you queue you'll most likely get teams who have no idea or care on what to actually do and it's easy to breeze through the Core mission. I've yet to encounter other players in the mission from the other team. They're usually stuck on a door somewhere. Finally the gear to me is underwhelming since I don't really PvP to begin with.

Just out of curiosity and if you don’t mind my asking of course but what do you do in STO during your active (so not doffing & admiralty) gaming times?

warpangel

I'm pretty sure the new queues will ultimately "fail." Not because of crybabies butthurt over PvP, but because they still haven't fixed the reward structure that makes anything that can't be finished fast uncompetitive in the field of general reward over time.

In other words, the same reason all the other recently created queues have failed.

lordsteve1

> @warpangel said:
> I'm pretty sure the new queues will ultimately "fail." Not because of crybabies butthurt over PvP, but because they still haven't fixed the reward structure that makes anything that can't be finished fast uncompetitive in the field of general reward over time.
>
> In other words, the same reason all the other recently created queues have failed.

This hits the nail on the head pretty well to be honest.
Like all previous queues the reward:effort ratio is the only thing that matters.

newromulan

It is good to hear some people like the new space pvp, but I suspect most still have not really been mauled by some good pvp players over and over yet. In some runs my team did not make it through the puzzle doors before the other side was taking out the core.
Point is, pve is so face roll easy that your standard pvp build will destroy any pve content in the game. However, the average pve build is set to respawn after a few seconds by a pvp build with a half decent pilot. I don't think the majority of the games players will change, nor put up with the respawn for long.
Plus the q takes time. Why spend 20 or more minutes when you could spend 20 seconds in CCA as some have pointed out?

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sheldonlcooper

I was more than skeptical heading into this because I only pug and didn't think pugs would ever get to the final rooms.

This has proven not to be the case at all. Running these on 3 characters has been smooth sailing.

Now, as far as queues that have legs past 60 days...Brotherhood elite might be the only somewhat recent queue that has accomplished this and even that was dead for me for 15 minutes wait this morning I gave up.

It's possible that if they don't monkey with it the binary circuit elite might just might have some legs past 60 days.

newromulan

I don't dislike the q myself. I am actually inspired to get my KDF bop and Rom vapes out of mothballs and try and set many players to respawn. I guess that could be a plus? I just don't think the games current population will take to pvp. And really after the door gimmick is done, it's just a pvp map.

Problem is, if they really have a matching system then the wait times are going to be long for the 'better' players if you want to pug it.