Voth Furiadon Fangs

risian4 · March 2017

First, thanks for these. Playing as a Voth has become a bit more possible

I also like how its attacks can be 'launched' from a small distance - regular melee attacks are rather sluggish but this weapon nicely corrects for that.

I am curious though: am I the only one who finds the break between its different attacks rather long? I think it wouldn't hurt if the different attacks could be used a bit faster, it's not like slightly boosting a melee weapon would negatively affect the situation on the ground anyway

chispin55 · March 2017

Voth components for Alien character creation, please!

risian4 · March 2017

chispin55 wrote: »

Voth components for Alien character creation, please!

I would prefer actual playable Voth with unique traits and abilities. But if that isn't possible, then I would settle for this.

ltminns · March 2017

I really wish they'd stop providing Rare Level items. Very Rare would definitely be preferable.

risian4 · March 2017

Agreed - though this time it didn't matter that much imo. With the upgrade weekend and a nice stock of Phoenix tech upgrades, I had it at very rare after three upgrades (two of which were level increases from 12 to 14).

My newly created Voth-alien has an epic version now.

kodachikuno · March 2017

Yeah the attack cooldowns were pretty brutal.... on the other hand I noticed these act more like guns in how they operate than a bat'leth/lirpa/falchion. Havent decided if I like that or not. (And whay does the tooltip not show dps?)

legendarylycan · March 2017

it isn't the only item in the game missing its DPS tag; the klingon disruptor you can choose as a reward from Everything Old is New doesn't show it either

mcampbelldev · March 2017

The main reason for not showing DPS and the long initial recharge times is the speed up mechanic. The idea is if you keep your momentum up you'll be a fast slicing machine.

The recharge time for the weapon powers can be reduced up to 650% if you gain 10 stacks of momentum (At max stacks the wooshy fx will change from blue to orange). Showing DPS would then be difficult as it changes with how many times you use the primary attack.

I'll look into displaying a max DPS when at max stacks to see if it reads well.

legendarylycan · March 2017

mcampbelldev#6660 wrote: »

The main reason for not showing DPS and the long initial recharge times is the speed up mechanic. The idea is if you keep your momentum up you'll be a fast slicing machine.

The recharge time for the weapon powers can be reduced up to 650% if you gain 10 stacks of momentum (At max stacks the wooshy fx will change from blue to orange). Showing DPS would then be difficult as it changes with how many times you use the primary attack.

I'll look into displaying a max DPS when at max stacks to see if it reads well.

a new dev? welcome to the nuthouse! have a squirrel

also, make sure you talk to the appropriate party to get your account a Cryptic Developer tag so everyone knows you are one...no idea who's in charge of that though

@ambassadorkael#6946 would probably know

mcampbelldev · March 2017

Thanks! Yeah, I'll clear that up with him on Monday. I've been at Cryptic since mid 2016, figured I should probably interact with the community more than blogs.

legendarylycan · March 2017

yeah, about that...i hope you've got a suit of flame-resistant armor handy, because this community can get rather...ornery, at times

rattler2 · March 2017

That's an understatement Shadow.
The Flame Wars of Delta Rising were brutal. Many Forumites were maimed, and many more still fell in battle.

Joking aside, it can be brutal when something changes that people don't like. But many of us do appreciate having interaction with Devs, and Kael's so far proving to be a decent CM. And he has Trendy's shoes to fill. Everyone loved Trendy. So, my advice is to keep a sense of humor as well and just be a normal person. We like that in Devs. You should see some of Taco's posts.

dracounguis · March 2017

shadowfang240 wrote: »

yeah, about that...i hope you've got a suit of flame-resistant armor handy, because this community can get rather...ornery, at times

And don't forget the anti-peanut flak jacket. Some in the peanut gallery are pretty good shots. Personally, I prefer my...

risian4 · March 2017

mcampbelldev#6660 wrote: »

The main reason for not showing DPS and the long initial recharge times is the speed up mechanic. The idea is if you keep your momentum up you'll be a fast slicing machine.

The recharge time for the weapon powers can be reduced up to 650% if you gain 10 stacks of momentum (At max stacks the wooshy fx will change from blue to orange). Showing DPS would then be difficult as it changes with how many times you use the primary attack.

I'll look into displaying a max DPS when at max stacks to see if it reads well.

I haven't seen the orange fx yet. After trying out the weapon a bit, I noticed that indeed recharge time was significantly reduced.

Having so much fun with these, thanks again

questerius · March 2017

risian4 wrote: »

First, thanks for these. Playing as a Voth has become a bit more possible

I also like how its attacks can be 'launched' from a small distance - regular melee attacks are rather sluggish but this weapon nicely corrects for that.

I am curious though: am I the only one who finds the break between its different attacks rather long? I think it wouldn't hurt if the different attacks could be used a bit faster, it's not like slightly boosting a melee weapon would negatively affect the situation on the ground anyway

Not a melee player, but i have seen the suggestion to use "Deadly Intend" if you're a tactical player.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Tactical_Kit_Module_-_Deadly_Intent

r5e4w3q2 · March 2017

I am curious, why does the Fangs not come in a box like most other recent event reward items?
Not really a problem, just something I noticed when I tossed them into the bank next to the agony rifle and Cochrane's shotgun.

risian4 · March 2017

questerius wrote: »

risian4 wrote: »

First, thanks for these. Playing as a Voth has become a bit more possible

I also like how its attacks can be 'launched' from a small distance - regular melee attacks are rather sluggish but this weapon nicely corrects for that.

I am curious though: am I the only one who finds the break between its different attacks rather long? I think it wouldn't hurt if the different attacks could be used a bit faster, it's not like slightly boosting a melee weapon would negatively affect the situation on the ground anyway

Not a melee player, but i have seen the suggestion to use "Deadly Intend" if you're a tactical player.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Tactical_Kit_Module_-_Deadly_Intent

I would consider that, but after trying it a bit more, I've figured out how to use the fangs. Apparently only the primary attack builds Momentum so you just have to use that like 3-5 times and then you can keep cutting into enemies, up to 2 or 3 times per second when you reach 10 stacks.

In general: I do think that the stacks are lost a bit too fast. The second charge of Momentum takes something like 3 or 4 seconds as the recharge times are quite long at the beginning. By the time you get to the third or fourth charge, you've almost lost the first one already. After that, building goes really quick as you can gain 1 or even 2 charges each second but to maintain ten of them, you really need to keep attacking every second. Even a short interruption of 1 or 2 seconds means you're quickly down to nine charges.

It is fortunate that, as the first charges take some time to stack, it also takes a few seconds before you're down to 8 (from 9), but still. I think it wouldn't hurt to add a few seconds to the time a charge is retained. It would certainly make it more often possible to run to and attack the next group of enemies without losing too many stacks - although of course remaining at 10 stacks should be difficult.

I'm not sure about the consumption of charges by the secondary attack. Curious what other people think of this.

legendarylycan · March 2017

i would just make further applications of momentum while at max stacks refresh the duration of every one instead, like most powers which apply stacks of something do in champions

shadowfirefly00 · March 2017

These things are certainly fun to use. The momentum mechanic is an interesting change (you're trading combo moves for stacking buffs); however, I find myself agreeing with the following:

shadowfang240 wrote: »

i would just make further applications of momentum while at max stacks refresh the duration of every one instead, like most powers which apply stacks of something do in champions

I am curious as to whether this implementation was tested, and if so, what logic brought us the one currently in use.

risian4 wrote: »

I'm not sure about the consumption of charges by the secondary attack. Curious what other people think of this.

It makes sense, much along the lines of how some other weapons (notably the TTF rifle and Nausicaan energy lance) work.

risian4 · March 2017

shadowfirefly00 wrote: »

These things are certainly fun to use. The momentum mechanic is an interesting change (you're trading combo moves for stacking buffs); however, I find myself agreeing with the following:

shadowfang240 wrote: »

i would just make further applications of momentum while at max stacks refresh the duration of every one instead, like most powers which apply stacks of something do in champions

I am curious as to whether this implementation was tested, and if so, what logic brought us the one currently in use.

risian4 wrote: »

I'm not sure about the consumption of charges by the secondary attack. Curious what other people think of this.

It makes sense, much along the lines of how some other weapons (notably the TTF rifle and Nausicaan energy lance) work.

Yeah I agree with that it is consumed. I was mostly referring to whether it should consume 3 charges. Maybe less? More?

Considering how quickly they are lost, I would argue that they could consume less charges. Still think that retaining the charges for a longer time is the better way to improve the weapon, if I had to choose though.

shadowfirefly00 · March 2017

risian4 wrote: »

Considering how quickly they are lost, I would argue that they could consume less charges. Still think that retaining the charges for a longer time is the better way to improve the weapon, if I had to choose though.

Having the momentum charges behave like their counterparts in the referenced weapons would, I agree, be the better fix; it would also mean less work on the back-end in terms of keeping track of the lifespan of each and every individual charge.

asuran14 · March 2017

I like them, though find that doing the farming to get them, and end up with a blue quality melee weapon is a bit lack luster. I could actually see the momentum system used in a hybrid combo/momentum style format for a repair weapon. Such as that your normal attacks build up stacks of "insight/momentum", which can be spent on a finisher that is dependant on the attack string you used.

Unknown · March 2017

This content has been removed.

tobiashirt · March 2017

risian4 wrote: »

questerius wrote: »

risian4 wrote: »

First, thanks for these. Playing as a Voth has become a bit more possible

I also like how its attacks can be 'launched' from a small distance - regular melee attacks are rather sluggish but this weapon nicely corrects for that.

I am curious though: am I the only one who finds the break between its different attacks rather long? I think it wouldn't hurt if the different attacks could be used a bit faster, it's not like slightly boosting a melee weapon would negatively affect the situation on the ground anyway

Not a melee player, but i have seen the suggestion to use "Deadly Intend" if you're a tactical player.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Tactical_Kit_Module_-_Deadly_Intent

I would consider that, but after trying it a bit more, I've figured out how to use the fangs. Apparently only the primary attack builds Momentum so you just have to use that like 3-5 times and then you can keep cutting into enemies, up to 2 or 3 times per second when you reach 10 stacks.

In general: I do think that the stacks are lost a bit too fast. The second charge of Momentum takes something like 3 or 4 seconds as the recharge times are quite long at the beginning. By the time you get to the third or fourth charge, you've almost lost the first one already. After that, building goes really quick as you can gain 1 or even 2 charges each second but to maintain ten of them, you really need to keep attacking every second. Even a short interruption of 1 or 2 seconds means you're quickly down to nine charges.

It is fortunate that, as the first charges take some time to stack, it also takes a few seconds before you're down to 8 (from 9), but still. I think it wouldn't hurt to add a few seconds to the time a charge is retained. It would certainly make it more often possible to run to and attack the next group of enemies without losing too many stacks - although of course remaining at 10 stacks should be difficult.

I'm not sure about the consumption of charges by the secondary attack. Curious what other people think of this.

I think it makes for a good choice...you can sac a few charges to finish something off (or heal via the tertiary), or just keep going. I'm sure there's some ideal rhythm.

lopequil · March 2017

I've been trying out the fangs but have been a little disappointed so far. Does anyone else find that it takes a little too long to get a decent number of momentum stacks? The firing cycle is very slow to start and by the time I get to the point where I'm doing appreciable damage I could have shot the enemy twice over. I thought the point behind melee weapons was that they did more damage at the expense of vulnerability?

imperatorpaveli · March 2017

I don't know, it's a fun weapon for melee-only type things (Coliseum anyone?). The orange effect triggers when you have 10 Momentum stacks I believe.

risian4 · March 2017

imperatorpaveli wrote: »

I don't know, it's a fun weapon for melee-only type things (Coliseum anyone?). The orange effect triggers when you have 10 Momentum stacks I believe.

That is correct.

I would have thought that it wouldn't be very effective outside of Borg content (and indeed, Coliseum where you have no choice but to use melee weapons) but due to the increase range from which you can launch attacks, it's actually very useful in other content as well. Even faster moving opponents like the Voth or enemies like the Elachi can be defeated with this.

You're going to need some stun and root resists though, and perhaps a debuff clear thing. I'm using the Undine reputation shield for the resistances, Iconian might work too since it has an innate cleanse thingy but it also repels... so I'd have to try it to see if it works.

And of course a kit with vascular regenerator against the Borg. I could use stims, but I don't really like those. They're certainly an option though, giving more different kit options.

burstorion · March 2017

The trick I've learnt is its dangerous to go head on with bosses with no momentum so the best method is to attack the lt tier mobs first, build up momentum and then go for the boss

Also, if you want to be good to the team, command delegated devastation is wonderful as is the 2pc nukara melee set - commands DD disables your gun to give the team a massive energy weapon damage boost while the nuka weakens enemy shields and increases shield damage

legendarylycan · March 2017

you say DD disables your GUN...does that mean it doesn't affect melee weapons?

burstorion · March 2017

shadowfang240 wrote: »

you say DD disables your GUN...does that mean it doesn't affect melee weapons?

Indeed, it does not affect melee weapons - only melee weapons that use energy, such as the tholian sword, assassin sword and nanopulses (their energy parts, not the melee itself - if the tholian is energy charged, it gets locked)

kaarruu · March 2017

It's a nice idea and the animations look good, but in practice the Fangs are too clunky to be useful. Melee needs to close in fast and kill targets fast; a slow, gradual buildup is the very opposite of melee gameplay. By the time the second strike is ready, Followthrough has either ended or is about to end, which dilutes the starter spike. Poke. Wait. Poke again, wait a bit less, repeat. It might work while whittling down a mostly stationary sack of hitpoints, but that's not how STO melee goes.

For the Fangs to be practical, Momentum stacks need to either build up faster or drop slower. Hits at ten stacks refreshing all stacks would help, as would the basic attack building two stacks per strike. Or doubling the stacks' duration from ten seconds to twenty.

Voth Furiadon Fangs

Comments