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TRIBBLE MAINTENANCE AND RELEASE NOTES - MARCH 15, 2017

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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    maybe because it also gives a stacking DR debuff? whereas SSV doesn't, unless you have control amp​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
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    risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    And, continuing on that, the buff to Tyken's rift seems unnecessary as well. Like Subspace Vortex, this is also something you just throw out and then it doesn't require the player to do anything anymore. It just keeps dealing damage, and is fully independent. TR's main function isn't dealing damage anyway so this seems a bit strange.

    Imo, it would have made more sense to keep these powers as they were. If total damage output from Exotic builds needed to go down, then slightly correcting the stuff that requires little skill (GW, TR and SSV) makes more sense to me than correcting the one power that actually requires targeting and skill (and which has, additionally, a much higher cooldown too).
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    risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    maybe because it also gives a stacking DR debuff? whereas SSV doesn't, unless you have control amp​​

    True but it still does that. And they just gave us another damage resistance debuff too (structural analysis).

    It seems they are trying to make non-Tac builds more accessible by making Sci ones easier to use. That's all fine with me, but I wish they wouldn't have decided to hit the most 'difficult' skill to use, the hardest. That seems unfair to those who are already using exotic builds, even if it makes those builds more accessible to the playerbase at large.
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    but that's ALL SA does; it doesn't also do ever-increasing damage, nor does it knock weapons offline after the damage channel is done​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
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    risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    True, I'm just saying that if it's a problem that there is a big damage dealer that also reduces damage resistance, it makes little sense to me to add another damage resistance reducer for Sci's. And an easily accessible one too.

    Further, due to the targeting requirements I'd say that it is accepable that it has more benefits.
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    risian4 wrote: »
    I realise I'm a bit too late for this since it was already discussed on the 6th page, but I would like to add that I don't really understand the nerf to DRB either.

    Subspace Vortex is still very useful, yet this is a power that you just drop off and don't worry about it anymore. DRB requires continuous targeting and can be interrupted by fast moving enemies or, for example, teleporting Undine ships or 180 degree immune Vot.

    Both powers are big damage dealers but it makes little sense to me to nerf the one that requires more skill (and luck against certain enemies) to use and - especially - maintain to maximise its usefulness.

    It seems a few powers have ended up accidentally better than they were intended due to a bugfix in another area. So Gravity Well and Subspace Vortex are supposed to be weaker than they are now on Tribble, and since they were probably intended to be weaker than they are on Holodeck, it will probably be notable. That might change the position of DRB relative to Subspace Vortex (and Gravity Well). Logically, DRB should end up dealing more damage than SV in the end IMO.


    But Subspace Vortex is really a weird outlier. I mean, compare it to the Intel Power like Subspace Beacon. The only thing that SB does is teleport you to its location, then it's gone, and if you go too far away, it disappears. It doesn't deal damage, it doesn't give you any bonuses, the only thing ti does is teleport you from A to B. Subspace Vortex is a serious damage power that also teleports you if you don't like dealing damage anymore or something. Seriously, it makes no sense to me.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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    redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Can't keep doing the same-o, same-o, now. You want "oomph" try cannons and torps.
    You read the part where I was in a Resolute, right?

    3 tac consoles, 2 science, 5 eng. 1 ltc Tac (no universal) and you want me to experiment with Target Subsystems?
    I need my tac slots to do work. The job of actually completing the objectives, which is murdering everyone.
    where2r1 wrote: »
    All I can say is to remember: +Control Expertise also means you are able to RESIST control, too.....so with +50....escape is, now, possible along with a heal to shields right along with it. Come on, think people. Not just about getting your monster Sci clickies. I must go study what +Drain Expertise would do for me and what enemies use that stuff.
    I don't get monster Sci anything. I am lucky to get medicocre Sci. Even with DO.

    where2r1 wrote: »
    Someone said: Sci character HAVE to use Science ships. NO.

    I had my Romulan Sci in her Phoenix box "Bug" ship (which has tons of tactical slots to play with) and had a grand time on Tribble last night. Shoot...I didn't even have BOFFs set up right on that character....I actually had to stop and go back and train them. Still had great fun.
    Good for you. I'm glad you are not flying the wrong ship.

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    nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    All consoles that previously just gave +Kinetic Damage Resistance Rating additionally give the same magnitude of +Physical Damage Resistance rating.

    hwPzwaA.jpg

    Holodeck and Tribble. Still ill-treated by the new valuation scheme.
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    that's intentional - see where it says JUST gave +Kinetic Resist? that console already had +Physical Resist too, so they're not going to double-dip its Physical Resist​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
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    nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    that's intentional - see where it says JUST gave +Kinetic Resist? that console already had +Physical Resist too, so they're not going to double-dip its Physical Resist​​

    I didn't say it contradicted the patch note. I said the console's getting the short end of the turbolift shaft. If it had that 45 physical resistance item budget allocated to anything else it would have gotten 30 physical resistance "for free".

    Given that it was initially offered as the premier temporal shenanigans resistance item and considering the way resistance diminishing returns start to sting quite noticeably around 50, it could have just been given 75 physical resistance and call it a day. Not saying it should be, but that wouldn't have been an awful choice IMO. Personally, I'd rather see the now lost item budget reapportioned as 50 or 60 physical resistance and a very small increase to the EPG and control components. No matter how the 'correction' points are divvied up, leaving as is seems pretty mean.
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    well, they still have plenty of time to change things around, since nothing seems to be going live for at least a month​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
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    tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    nikeix wrote: »

    ...OR the trait could be changed to bypass the new lock out and continue to offer utility for its current use case: letting you cast Go Down Fighting during cakewalks.

    See above. If it's already so easy, then why do you need more damage? If you're running through content you so thoroughly outmatch that you never need Continuity or Invincible, why not forego them and use GDtD? The only real reason to use one or both of the failsafes alongside GDF is to get around the limitation of it being useful in situations of imminent danger, and to scale it reliably to nearly it's maximum value.

    This change says that you can pick one or the other route...slot Continuity/Invincible and go for the high-risk/high-reward gamble on GDF, or forego them and take the lesser but guaranteed benefit. Face it...people were abusing what was meant to be a last resort and turning it into a reliable buff, and that needed to be curtailed.

    Edit: Consider the case where Continuity and something else like Ablative Shell trigger. Or, Continuity triggers and you follow it up with, say, Hazard Emitters. You end up at, say, 75%. Continuity's not there to save you again, and GDF is inherently locked out above 50%. GDtD comes into play and allows a second wind against whatever was trying to kill you. Same general idea for the healing buff fron Invincible, that you're just outside the 50% range, and want to have the choice to use up GDF or try for a better activation of it. That's the kind of choice these changes introduce, rather than having GDF available all the time, even in 'cakewalks'. My contention is that GDF should not be available as part of preparation for an alpha-strike, it should be something you're only able to use if the situation warrants it.
    Post edited by tobiashirt on
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    tempus64tempus64 Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    Interesting results of a FBP build going from 214k to around 80k. Looks like they went way overboard on the embassy console nerf. Given the other results he was highlighting I was expecting them to end up at 10% of previous but it's more like 2%.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgnMfk323D4
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    e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    It seems a few powers have ended up accidentally better than they were intended due to a bugfix in another area. So Gravity Well and Subspace Vortex are supposed to be weaker than they are now on Tribble, and since they were probably intended to be weaker than they are on Holodeck, it will probably be notable. That might change the position of DRB relative to Subspace Vortex (and Gravity Well). Logically, DRB should end up dealing more damage than SV in the end IMO.

    Yeah I was just talking about this in TSC a while ago. I'm expecting DRB, TBR, SSV and GW to be roughly 40% as effective as they were in Holodeck once the Tribble fixes are in place.
    lucho80 wrote: »
    The problem is Deflector Overload got the short end of the stick because he arbitrarily decided drain and control wouldn't get the same treatment as part gens and shield heals. Seems he decided to slap down the two ones I posted minmax forums posts, so I decided to post a part gens one today to demonstrate the ridiculous amount of part gens % damage boosts available on top of skill maxing.

    Is the below description wrong? If it isn't, then it also boosts Control and Drain:
    Deflector Overcharge:
    This new power boosts provides Bonus Exotic Damage and Shield Healing while active, and additionally boosts Control Expertise and Drain Expertise.

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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    e30ernest wrote: »
    It seems a few powers have ended up accidentally better than they were intended due to a bugfix in another area. So Gravity Well and Subspace Vortex are supposed to be weaker than they are now on Tribble, and since they were probably intended to be weaker than they are on Holodeck, it will probably be notable. That might change the position of DRB relative to Subspace Vortex (and Gravity Well). Logically, DRB should end up dealing more damage than SV in the end IMO.

    Yeah I was just talking about this in TSC a while ago. I'm expecting DRB, TBR, SSV and GW to be roughly 40% as effective as they were in Holodeck once the Tribble fixes are in place.
    lucho80 wrote: »
    The problem is Deflector Overload got the short end of the stick because he arbitrarily decided drain and control wouldn't get the same treatment as part gens and shield heals. Seems he decided to slap down the two ones I posted minmax forums posts, so I decided to post a part gens one today to demonstrate the ridiculous amount of part gens % damage boosts available on top of skill maxing.

    Is the below description wrong? If it isn't, then it also boosts Control and Drain:
    Deflector Overcharge:
    This new power boosts provides Bonus Exotic Damage and Shield Healing while active, and additionally boosts Control Expertise and Drain Expertise.
    I think the issue is about the magnitude of the buff. The damage/healing buff is 50 %, CE and DE is +50 to the skill, which is in effect only 25 %.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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    redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    I think the issue is about the magnitude of the buff. The damage/healing buff is 50 %, CE and DE is +50 to the skill, which is in effect only 25 %.
    I thought Control only had any noticeable effect up to 450? If you are a dedicated Sci vessel, isn't it possible to get much less than 25% performance depending on how heavily you invested in Control?
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    darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,715 Community Moderator
    tempus64 wrote: »
    A tad "irritated" that Plasmonic Leech has been nerfed given I spent real money to purchase the Vandal. Frankly I don't see how it was any problem given people have been using it for years, far before the current run away DPS issue that's occurred within the last year or so with all the new stuff that's come out. But whatever.

    Can someone explain this to me "Resolved an issue where multiple players could cause a target to obtain more than 5 stacks of the Coalition Disruptor Proc". Does that basically nerf into oblivion the current meta of people running Coalition Disruptors? i.e. going back to AntiProton.

    And this one "Resolved an issue that caused Fire at Will to trigger weapon procs excessively". Was this one of the many causes of BFAW being so OP?

    It makes clear in all blogs with all ships they release that stats are subject to change. If something is always the right answer no matter what you do, or is a "must have or you're bad" as I saw some folks say, then that ability will get changed. that's the nature of mmos regardless of if you paid cash for it or not. I myself have paid real cash for the Vandal as well but I understand sometimes things change in mmos. It sucks when it happens but sometimes is a necessity. Simply because something has been used for years doesn't mean it hasn't been broken since implementation. Pretty much for all builds you had to have a leech. if you didn't have a leech you were at a severe disadvantage.

    Coalitions also were stacking beyond their original intent by the words of the patches. Again it's not really a nerf if it was never working correctly to start with.

    FAW has performed vastly superior for awhile now compared to the cannon abilities and such. it also probably was one of the reasons.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
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    qjuniorqjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
    It makes clear in all blogs with all ships they release that stats are subject to change. If something is always the right answer no matter what you do, or is a "must have or you're bad" as I saw some folks say, then that ability will get changed. that's the nature of mmos regardless of if you paid cash for it or not.

    The "subject to change" part usually refers to "before release" not to "6-7 years later when everybody gave us their money", no ? :D The point is moot anyway since we all signed the Eula and as such have agreed to them changing whatever they want.

    While I wholeheartedly agree that must-have items and no-brainer items are bad design and unbalanced, all of this isn't a few weeks after release, it's years and years. That at least makes me understand people who are upset about the nerf.

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    hajmyishajmyis Member Posts: 405 Arc User
    that's intentional - see where it says JUST gave +Kinetic Resist? that console already had +Physical Resist too, so they're not going to double-dip its Physical Resist​​

    with that said

    would the 2pc Sol set gave plus 35% to Physical since that is only 35% Kinetic and 25% energy ?
    "Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,280 Arc User
    good question...someone wanna check the sol defense 2-piece and see if its +35% kinetic resist was converted to kinetic/physical?​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
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    qjuniorqjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
    A set bonus is not an engineering console as far as I know....
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    hajmyishajmyis Member Posts: 405 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    good question...someone wanna check the sol defense 2-piece and see if its +35% kinetic resist was converted to kinetic/physical?​​
    I check later
    qjunior wrote: »
    A set bonus is not an engineering console as far as I know....


    if not that is disappointing
    "Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
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    blackshap9#1072 blackshap9 Member Posts: 174 Arc User
    I just started playing in October, I spent $150.00 (I know others have spent much more) and I spent hours each day trying to learn this complicated game. I bought a Fleet Temporal Science Vessel and spent all my zen on boxes to try and make it playable at PvP and in the game...

    These change basically ruin my ship... The ship is already weak enough, temporal powers take sooo much time to build entropy that I need those other powers just to survive...

    Now everybody is buying carriers??? I can't believe this... Hard core players will stay and members who have invested thousands will stay but for me, I am walking away from this game if my ship becomes useless and from what I have read you are basically reducing all my spells.

    If you can only see the tears building in my eyes.
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    hajmyishajmyis Member Posts: 405 Arc User
    the 2pc Sol does not, nor does the Aux to Def Nukara Rep trait give physical
    "Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
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    titanhoss#9356 titanhoss Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    Maybe they will make up for the Leech Nerf like they did when things went F2P... something like the photonic science officer?
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    lordgyorlordgyor Member Posts: 2,820 Arc User
    Your temporal science ship will not be useless.
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    lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    I think the issue is about the magnitude of the buff. The damage/healing buff is 50 %, CE and DE is +50 to the skill, which is in effect only 25 %.

    Lol, +50 is not 25%. Well, maybe it could be 25% when your skill is zero.

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    hajmyishajmyis Member Posts: 405 Arc User
    @crypticspartan#0627

    A few things That have not seen listed, (maybe it has, just haven't seen)

    1) Continuity from the temp Specialization line; The Temporal Adaption II, can this no longer cancel the Adjustment period. That Passive of Continuity is quite strong and deserves and balanced negative effect. Maybe The Temporal Adaption I drops the Adjustment period down to 15 sec and then to 10 sec for The Temporal Adaption II.

    2) Sub System Targeting. I really like the changes. Although not sure if the doff
    (Chance to set random other offline) is working, that is hard to test on tribble.

    However the drain is really low. on a 650 Drain exp, it is around 3.5 stack 10, so 35 drain. this is way down from what is on Holodeck. I understand the need to reduced the drain, but maybe increase the drain a bit more.

    And thank you so much for the reduce cool down time on the sci ship sub system, this is one of the best changes!

    3) Photonic office, great change! 2m cooldown is amazing, but there is no need for the doff to reduce the cool down of Photonic abilities (unless u use shock wave). Not sure if going under 2m would happen, but just wanted to point that out. (yay more doff space)

    4) I know this is for Space Balance. But on the ground. Since the Ground re-balance I have noticed a huge increase in ground DPS, and it is quite OP. Cold Fusion (225 dam) and the Exothermic Field (483 dam) combo melts any npc on the ground even on elite. Granted I have 300 kit performance, but this seems way to high.

    5) AI Resist. Will this be looked out? We can drop the resist below zero. Two scis with Sensor Scan, and Structural Analysis can make the NPCs really easy to kill just by a simple debuff. Increasing the base resist, and or prevent the drop below zero would go along way.

    5) Quantum Phase Torpedo, the shield drain is so high. I get that some people don't skill into high drain exp, but it is a trop for a drain because of the proc. I feel this needs to be scaled done, or done differently on have the shield damages hits with a trop spread.
    "Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    lucho80 wrote: »
    I think the issue is about the magnitude of the buff. The damage/healing buff is 50 %, CE and DE is +50 to the skill, which is in effect only 25 %.

    Lol, +50 is not 25%. Well, maybe it could be 25% when your skill is zero.
    I don't know what Cat the Science Pattern Alpha buff is, but it's likely still one that you already have some bonuses. So it will also not be +50 % net bonus.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    Does subsystem targeting also buff torpedoes now? If not, that's something I'd add as well. No reason why homing projectiles can't also target specific subsystems.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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