My concern is that maybe Cryptic will start, if not already, using these "balance changes" not for game-play continuity but for economic opportunity. Maybe they need to boost Respec Token sales or that sort of thing.
Otherwise, there will be some hits & misses as with any changes. If the intent is to make the 3 classes more parallel in dps or whatever measurement then of course that is welcomed. Yes, some will be more hindered than others in the process.
It has been stated that they do not want to diminish players' investments but clearly that is happening upon a couple of these changes. Easily a scenario could happen where a player invests heavily into a themed build which will now be "nerfed" &/or nullified almost completely with these changes.
I suspect they will still tinker with the changes. Some more some less. I do like the appeal though of having the 3 classes more even in contributing to game-play.
It's a Plasma Weapon. Did you use it with Plasma Boosting items? Even without them it is powerful enough to block a PvE D'D's torpedo. I used it plenty of times in Borg Queues and it did a wonderful job of protecting me from their torpedoes.
Let's think about that question logically for a moment. I mentioned I used it on a character I was leveling. Do you really think that character, or any new character for that matter,
1. would have the EC to try and buy Plasma Boosting items?
2. would have gotten enough of them to drop to keep and equip it and make a difference in a handful of fights?
3. would have built their ship around nothing but plasma weapons to even bother wanting them in the first place if they weren't a Rom character?
Also, unless I had one hell of a bug on 3 separate runs the console did jack all to take out the torps.
You're going to get tired of hearing it before I get tired of saying it. How is a new player going to not only have the console but the boosting items to go along with it to make use of it if they were even around to grab a phoenix box with the small amount of Dil they get by just doing story missions?
I'm going to breakdown and tear your points to pieces now. Ready?
They don't. But they also don't need to, either. Fresh characters cannot slot Ship Traits, so they don't need Lockbox ships.
So why bother suggesting it at all? You see the logical fallacy you're spouting? The people who need those aren't going to be able to equip them and the people that can don't need them to deal with the torp spam. Do you understand why suggesting this as an option is beyond stupid? Do you understand why I'm making such a point about hammering home that I'm not concerned about top level players but the ones that are just starting and will be turned off by a game that just kills them over and over for no real reason and asking in zone chat is going to get them variations of "git gud nub"? The game isn't friendly to new players, it doesn't explain near enough to help them understand the basic functions of the game, and trying to ask in game is like asking to have a "kick me" sign placed on your back.
The 'Accurate' Trait is innately available to everyone if they are having a hard time hitting smaller objects. It can be used as soon as the first Trait Slot is open. I don't know if things have changed, but you used to be able to pick a few during Character Creation.
Have you read how much of a benefit that gives? Here's I'll do that for you, "+10% Accuracy". Have you bothered to even math that out? It's not a lot of a bonus and even using it, unless you get lucky with random drops to get [Acc] mods it's going to literally do TRIBBLE all for your overall accuracy. Even using it on a leveling character you'll miss just as many shots on destructables as you would if you didn't have it equipped, it literally does that little. There's a reason anyone who actually checks dumps it the moment they can.
The 'Elusive' Trait is also a starter. It will increase their dodge rating.
This trait is EVEN WORSE. Have you ever actually tried checking how much defense this actually gives? It's even WORSE than the Accuracy trait because at least Accuracy doesn't scramble off into a scream spiral of diminishing returns. Even AT the low levels of defense that a leveling character would have it literally adds almost nothing, especially not enough to let you have any reasonable chance or dodging or mitigating the damage from those torps. Don't believe me? Try it for yourself. Go level a character and slap on the two traits you just recommended. Enjoy dying and not hitting the torps.
A new player could equip anti-plasma armor on their ship. These are common drops and would do well against Romulan Torpedoes.
They are common, but again have you ever used one? How much hull do those low level ships have and how much defense do those consoles actually give in the rarity they drop at for that level range? Again, nice suggestion but in practice it falls apart due to how "crypticmath(tm)" actually works and if you had bothered to even try it in game on a character in the level range we're talking about you'll see exactly how pointless it is in regards to the damage being pointed at you.
Simply moving would provide. Any forward movement at all increases the dodge chance. The faster that you move, the higher your dodge.
Even moving at full impulse doesn't actually provide as much dodge as you're trying to tout. Even if we combine Elusive and moving at full impulse it STILL doesn't provide as much defense as you're trying to tout. Are you actually doing any math to reasonably make points or have you actually tried leveling a character without help from your main at any point in the last year? My initial guess would be no to both points because if you had done either you'd realize how absolutely silly both of those are.
That is not even taking in to consideration that Romulan Plasma Balls are super slow.
You know the funniest part about that. They're destructable torps. Have you logged into Tribble and tested it recently. I'll give you a minute to realize how severly you just made a "ohh...right". Yeah, the NPC's were affected by the change as well. Go enjoy being eaten alive by faster and more defensive torps.
'B:FaW' still works, Ash. It's not going anywhere. You can still use it to shoot down torpedoes and fighters. If you are worried about your hit rate, use the aforementioned Accurate Trait to counter the accuracy loss.
Except it doesn't appear like it's been adjusted to properly take ACC into account still. I know, because I've tested it on tribble on both a lower level toon and a max one with beams that are stacked with ACC along with taking every ACC boosting trait that I can. On the lower level toon the torps ate my face faster than they have every done in the past and every shot missed meaning I at every torp instead of the one or two that I usually did. Combine that with subsystems going offline at the same time and me scrambling to get one up only for the ship to use it again and my cleanse being on cooldown at that point making me a sitting duck, something a new player wouldn't realize he/she could do at that level most likely making it pointless to use in testing situations, means people are now going to die and get frustrated even faster now Go test it for yourself on a leveling toon without a bunch of hand me down account bound equipment. BFAW doesn't still work, which you'd know if you had bothered to take some time to actually test it in multiple level brackets and at multiple stat amounts. But why would you bother doing that when all your characters are maxed and you can just pass down any equipment you please.
Come on, man. You've been here for over half a decade. You already know this.
Yes, I have. You want to know the best part about that? It's given me time to actually test things over the years. To actually have characters at various levels to also test things. Maybe you need to take that into account and actually go do some testing of your own to make sure your points actually have a basis in the game and not the "oh it looks like this on the tin so it should work like that" without realizing that it doesn't and you need to actually go test things instead of spouting off "advice" that doesn't work.
I get you're trying to offer options but you're not actually thinking about what you're offering, what level range you're talking about, what those options actually offer in the situation we're discussing, and overall how little there is there to help besides the skill that's being nerfed. To top that off the Torps and Fighters are being BUFFED in the same patch making it an even larger divide between the two and making all the suggestions you just offered even LESS EFFECTIVE than they would be right now. It's like you're not putting 2 and 2 together and looking at the big picture. Please do so, please go actually test things before you offer more advice, and please actually start thinking logically before making any further suggestions because you're spouting off things that honestly don't do near enough to help your cause.
With the changes to carrier pets on the way, I would like to take this opportunity to make my case once again, to increase the size of the Callisto Light Escort!!
Listen, I know that it may not be important to many people, But I think that immersion is important just as much as mechanics and numeric values.
I find the fact that the Callisto’s are the same sizer as the Delta Flyer to be immersion breaking and frustrating.
What I find immersive and fun with carriers is this: With fighters, you get to have a swarm of 12 little bees swarming around firing their little weapons - It’s fun. With Shuttles, you get 8 larger craft zipping around with their beam weapons, stronger hulls, and control abilities. And lastly, with the frigate pets, you get 4 larger craft that you CAN SEE, let me repeat, THAT YOU CAN SEE, on screen, giving you that awesome feeling that you are in control of a small fleet.
I find it difficult to get around the fact that I only get 4 Callisto’s and I can barely see them on screen. Their torpedoes they fire are bigger on screen then they are. And yes, I know some people would like to point out the strength of the Defiant compared to larger ships, but come on, given the strength difference between the Callisto and a runabout, they should just be bigger. In fact, I think they might be smaller than the Yellowstone? (Maybe not)
Anyway, that’s my rant. Some might disagree or find it petty, but I spent years waiting for a Federation carrier and frigate pets that would give me the same feeling I get when I fly a Jem'hadar carrier with attack ships, or a Vo'quv with B’rels.
they are super slow NOW; they won't be after everything goes live, because they buffed destructible torpedo speed
that being said, the best defense is still the same as it's always been - don't let the spam trigger in the first place, which means don't get caught in the tractor beam, which means stay at least 5.1 km away at all times
Photonic Shockwave should break the lock. I think that it works on destructible torpedoes, too, but I have tested it in a while.
Have you read how much of a benefit that gives? Here's I'll do that for you, "+10% Accuracy". Have you bothered to even math that out?
I have heard that the new B:FaW has a -20% Accuracy Penalty.
I am not sure what Small Targets have. I am guessing it is around -20% as well.
100%-20%-20%+10%=70% If you fire only a single weapon once.
[quote"]Are you actually doing any math to reasonably make points or have you actually tried leveling a character without help from your main at any point in the last year? My initial guess would be no to both points because if you had done either you'd realize how absolutely silly both of those are.[/quote]
I have, in fact. Prior to AoY my character was Galaeanyss, or Nyssa for short. She used No C-Store Items, No Lockbox Items, No Fleet Items. She received no Hand-Me-Downs. Not only did she never use Beam: Fire At Will, she used no energy weapons of any kind in Space or on the Ground (save for a portion of the tutorial where they were required). She was raised using nothing but Drops and the Starting Gear. In Space, she has hit for over a 200K+ damage on multiple occasions. In case you are wondering, that would be through a combination of close targets and a Tricobalt Torpedo Spread.
So, no, you don't need to purchase Items to do well. You don't need B:FaW. You don't need to use Keybinds (which I nothing about). What you do need to read the Tooltips and consider what you want to accomplish and consider how to go about achieving your goal.
I am now done with this conversation. Good day to you, Sir (or madam, as the case may be).
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I have, in fact. Prior to AoY my character was Galaeanyss, or Nyssa for short. She used No C-Store Items, No Lockbox Items, No Fleet Items. She received no Hand-Me-Downs. Not only did she never use Beam: Fire At Will, she used no energy weapons of any kind in Space or on the Ground (save for a portion of the tutorial where they were required). She was raised using nothing but Drops and the Starting Gear. In Space, she has hit for over a 200K+ damage on multiple occasions. In case you are wondering, that would be through a combination of close targets and a Tricobalt Torpedo Spread.
So, no, you don't need to purchase Items to do well. You don't need B:FaW. You don't need to use Keybinds (which I nothing about). What you do need to read the Tooltips and consider what you want to accomplish and consider how to go about achieving your goal.
I am now done with this conversation. Good day to you, Sir (or madam, as the case may be).
So from what I gather from your reply you use torps and that magically makes you a master of knowledge of beam weapons. You didn't actually check the Tribble patch notes, you aren't posting any actual testing data to even try and refute my points, and all you're doing is tossing random tidbits that you have a torp build and think that magically makes every point I stated incorrect somehow. Newsflash, nothing you posted in any way makes you right.
The fact that you're "now done with this conversation" means you have no actual reply to my points and simply want to avoid having to actually debate the topic or in any way prove you're correct. It makes it really appear that you KNOW you're not right and just don't have any way to refute what I wrote. If you want to run off, fine, but that pretty much proves I'm right because you have nothing at all to prove my points incorrect. Maybe in the future you should read patch notes and actually have defensible points before getting into an argument that you're going to lose.
the nukara console might start seeing some use on beam builds again too, since it has +10% beam accuracy
Eh... if I need Epic Weapons, Reputation consoles, Fleet consoles or Z-store items to use an ensign tactical power effectively, then they might want to scale it back a little.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
The only reason I would make massive changes like this would be as a last ditch effort to keep STO from going under. Star Wars Galaxies was booming with subscribers then Sony took over and made massive changes which led to the quick death of that MMO. I hope the STO developers realize they are gambling with their own paychecks here. Wrecking science consoles and plasmonic leech is a major mistake. I will be losing countless amounts of energy credits, dilithium and TIME with this patch. I have hung in there for 7 years. I left for a couple and recently returned. I don't think I'm coming back after this one. In fact my lost investment is so great I have no motivation to log in any more. I have spent $500 in Zen in the last 3 months. I want it all back. You can close my accounts. Just give my money back. There is an alternative to this nerfing nonsense. Make content that requires elite and expensive builds with rewards that makes players even more powerful. Instead of nerfing us put your efforts into making content that is more difficult. Set the goals higher and higher. Don't make the players weaker. That's just lazy. I promise you that massive and sudden changes like this can be fatal to MMO's. If a developer happens to read this please answer this question: Who is prompting these massive changes to the game? Players? Developers? Money men? If there answer is money men then the game is doomed and you need to start looking for new work now.
The only reason I would make massive changes like this would be as a last ditch effort to keep STO from going under. Star Wars Galaxies was booming with subscribers then Sony took over and made massive changes which led to the quick death of that MMO. I hope the STO developers realize they are gambling with their own paychecks here. Wrecking science consoles and plasmonic leech is a major mistake. I will be losing countless amounts of energy credits, dilithium and TIME with this patch. I have hung in there for 7 years. I left for a couple and recently returned. I don't think I'm coming back after this one. In fact my lost investment is so great I have no motivation to log in any more. I have spent $500 in Zen in the last 3 months. I want it all back. You can close my accounts. Just give my money back. There is an alternative to this nerfing nonsense. Make content that requires elite and expensive builds with rewards that makes players even more powerful. Instead of nerfing us put your efforts into making content that is more difficult. Set the goals higher and higher. Don't make the players weaker. That's just lazy. I promise you that massive and sudden changes like this can be fatal to MMO's. If a developer happens to read this please answer this question: Who is prompting these massive changes to the game? Players? Developers? Money men? If there answer is money men then the game is doomed and you need to start looking for new work now.
"Set the goals higher and higher. Don't make the players weaker. That's just lazy." so you mean constant powercreep is good ? you have no idea what you've just said, a complete rebalance of powers was needed, and this fix isnt by far the lazy solution. it is the goddamn right solution. now you can go cry somewhere else just because youve lost some dps ( everyone did fyi )
I did tests on Tribble. This new space balance, it's a enormous nerfing. The buils are all obsolete.
Less dps, less exotic damage, less shield and hull regen, less resistance...
you already need to do that with TS1 and THY1...trying to use those with just a torpedo and nothing else will do jack **** against even a frigate
You do not need any of that to kill frigates with torpedo powers. You reduce the target's shields with energy weapons, then fire. Level 11 characters can do just fine with normal looted equipment to use torpedo powers effectively. They cannot use the same gear and use B:FAW I effectively.
I did tests on Tribble. This new space balance, it's a enormous nerfing. The buils are all obsolete.
Less dps, less exotic damage, less shield and hull regen, less resistance...
Take an Engineer into Tribble.
+++++++++++
On a totally different note: I lack the perceptive ability to notice:
"The flight speed of targetable torpedoes has been increased."
"The range at which mines acquire their target has been increased."
Going back and forth from Tribble to Holodeck watching torpedoes is not exactly on my list of happy weekend activities.
Besides, not very efficient.
Is there any numbers attached to the phenomenons of "faster torpedoes"? Or mine target range?
Difference between Holodeck and Tribble, please?
(Sorry if this has been asked already...did not want to scroll through 10 pages of comments....yet)
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
As frustrating as this rebalance is and I'm concerned about my builds being less effective than they are now and having to possibly use multiple respect tokens to re-tweak them, this was the only possible solution if the 2 options were
1. Make Elite Content for powerful builds
2. Nerf abilities.
We may not like it (I don't, my "fun" is being able to blow stuff up fast its the game meta killing NPC's) but from a financial point of view this was the most cost effective way for Cryptic to do this. Creating new content costs far more than adjusting game mechanics. Its just a shame players time and purchases had to be sacrificed to make these changes.
Lets hope once it does go live its not as damaging as we think, If the ground changes are done and space turns out the same then i can live it with as with my ground toons the only change that really affected me was the nerf to Tachyon Concussive Emission which i swapped out for the Lukari Tier 5 power.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
I did tests on Tribble. This new space balance, it's a enormous nerfing. The buils are all obsolete.
Less dps, less exotic damage, less shield and hull regen, less resistance...
Take an Engineer into Tribble.
+++++++++++
On a totally different note: I lack the perceptive ability to notice:
"The flight speed of targetable torpedoes has been increased."
"The range at which mines acquire their target has been increased."
Going back and forth from Tribble to Holodeck watching torpedoes is not exactly on my list of happy weekend activities.
Besides, not very efficient.
Is there any numbers attached to the phenomenons of "faster torpedoes"? Or mine target range?
Difference between Holodeck and Tribble, please?
(Sorry if this has been asked already...did not want to scroll through 10 pages of comments....yet)
No one seems to have any numbers and the devs have been asked a few times. I did notice a small increases in torpedo speed but mines even after testing I found it hard to notice any difference. We are going to need 2 people in PvP to do testing to get numbers. Just from fighting NPC's nothing much has changed.
Just a couple important suggestions I would like you guys to take seriously.
For the Science captain ability Deflector Overcharge, you should consider making it a percent across the board. All 4 skills receiving a 50% boost from the captain ability. Given it's recharge cannot be reduced and the fact that it's a captain ability and given the current sci meta, it is complete reasonable and the right way to go to make it a flat +50% to all 4.
Hot Restart. I would strongly urge you guys to consider dropping the cooldown from every 60 seconds to every 30, to help keep them useful and usable. 60 seconds is simply too long and is unreasonable. 30 seconds is quite long and makes more sense.
Only fair thing to do.
Not that anybody cares, but I agree with both points. The first kinda stands out as a ore thumb (some things are buffed in percentiles, some not), second is bordering on being useless as I'd expect anybody to run some kind of eng team anyway. And that has a way lower CD than the 60 seconds proposed here for the so-called "hot fix".
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
The only reason I would make massive changes like this would be as a last ditch effort to keep STO from going under. Star Wars Galaxies was booming with subscribers then Sony took over and made massive changes which led to the quick death of that MMO. I hope the STO developers realize they are gambling with their own paychecks here. Wrecking science consoles and plasmonic leech is a major mistake. I will be losing countless amounts of energy credits, dilithium and TIME with this patch. I have hung in there for 7 years. I left for a couple and recently returned. I don't think I'm coming back after this one. In fact my lost investment is so great I have no motivation to log in any more. I have spent $500 in Zen in the last 3 months. I want it all back. You can close my accounts. Just give my money back. There is an alternative to this nerfing nonsense. Make content that requires elite and expensive builds with rewards that makes players even more powerful. Instead of nerfing us put your efforts into making content that is more difficult. Set the goals higher and higher. Don't make the players weaker. That's just lazy. I promise you that massive and sudden changes like this can be fatal to MMO's. If a developer happens to read this please answer this question: Who is prompting these massive changes to the game? Players? Developers? Money men? If there answer is money men then the game is doomed and you need to start looking for new work now.
Yes, they need to make smarter enemies, but simply adding power continually boxes them in in terms of each new item, specialization, etc. released. My guess is that it was the players rather than some indefinite idea of 'money men' that drove this...many people playing some close variation of the same build utilizing leech and embassy consoles, some abilities or items never being used, one or more careers played less frequently than others. Who knows what data/metrics they have to look at that you and I will never see, and what they infer from it?
That, and the two consoles you singled out have been the subject of the majority of complaints I've seen in every thread relating to the rebalance...which shows you why they needed to be addressed. If those 2 items pretty much always had a seat at the table, that tells the devs that they're performing (or being used in a way) that was counter to the design intent. If we go back to the plasma consoles, for example...they originally had a plasma DoT of the same strength as plasma weapons. So, they did 3 things: buff a sci stat, scale threat, and make any weapon type a plasma hybrid...try getting 10's of thousands of dps out of the proc from plasma beams, and you start to see how they diverge from the original design. Personally, I'd like to see them go back to that idea and either move to an equip limit of one or have the 10s shared lockout the other embassy consoles do right now, the latter of which would also retain their utility as stat boosts and threatscale.
No one seems to have any numbers and the devs have been asked a few times. I did notice a small increases in torpedo speed but mines even after testing I found it hard to notice any difference. We are going to need 2 people in PvP to do testing to get numbers. Just from fighting NPC's nothing much has changed.
Thanks potts.
Are there still any PvP people to test anything on Tribble any more? I don't think there is.
It's OK. I finally got some time. Take my Rom Sci with regular Plasma torps on her. Maybe I can see something...I have to dig out her mines, too.
EDIT: Wow. Something is definitely up with the mines. Maybe it is improvement from extra range?? No way of measuring that, really.
Torpedo spread seems to be acting weird....as in it doesn't look like it is spreading out. At least, on the regular plasma torps. All projectiles are just hitting one target....it looks like my cannons firing. But I will take that.
As far as torp speed...I think I will try it on my KDF in the BoP tomorrow. On the BoP I can fire torps in cloak so keep the extra fireworks off the scenery.
(playing solo, so I have to do this stuff in combat, anyways, can't watch or see everything around me).
Post edited by where2r1 on
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I always assumed my Callistos we're the size of the defiant roughly because I think of them as T6 Aquarius Light Escorts, I had no idea they we're the size of Delta Fliers.
How does that compare to say BoP pets or the Odyssey's Aquarius?
I always assumed my Callistos we're the size of the defiant roughly because I think of them as T6 Aquarius Light Escorts, I had no idea they we're the size of Delta Fliers.
How does that compare to say BoP pets or the Odyssey's Aquarius?
I think the problem is that Shuttles in this game are not appropriately sized. If they were, they'd be too small to be easily visible.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I did tests on Tribble. This new space balance, it's a enormous nerfing. The buils are all obsolete.
Less dps, less exotic damage, less shield and hull regen, less resistance...
After cruising through SB24 and Argala for an afternoon with my engineer i have to say that while changes are noticeable they are far from crippling.
The current setup seems pretty close to the mark considering that science and tactical always crank out higher numbers.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Alot of changes to enhance a segment of the game more embraced by console then PC. Totally understand why, the current META is spent out, and not enough money/time/grind is going into the new stuff. So nerf the popular, as the whiners say OP stuff, and make the newer and less used stuff more attractive. This will stimulate the purchase of Zen, to Dil, to cash in Cryptic's pockets. This is not sarcarsm, this is a kudos to your business model.
I always assumed my Callistos we're the size of the defiant roughly because I think of them as T6 Aquarius Light Escorts, I had no idea they we're the size of Delta Fliers.
How does that compare to say BoP pets or the Odyssey's Aquarius?
I can make more screenshots, but they will all show the same thing. Romulan Drones, Klingon BoPs, Jem'Hadar or Spear Builder frigates, they are all much larger. The Callisto's are the only frigate class ships that are the size of the shuttles. And it bothers the hell out of me lol.
Overall, it'll make for interesting changes to the meta. At least it should encourage folks to play something other than tactical. I am curious though to see if they'll give us a free retrain token for each toon. These changes to the game mechanics are going to require us to totally revamp our builds.
I will say... Alas, my poor Plasmonic Leech... RIP...
Comments
Otherwise, there will be some hits & misses as with any changes. If the intent is to make the 3 classes more parallel in dps or whatever measurement then of course that is welcomed. Yes, some will be more hindered than others in the process.
It has been stated that they do not want to diminish players' investments but clearly that is happening upon a couple of these changes. Easily a scenario could happen where a player invests heavily into a themed build which will now be "nerfed" &/or nullified almost completely with these changes.
I suspect they will still tinker with the changes. Some more some less. I do like the appeal though of having the 3 classes more even in contributing to game-play.
Let's think about that question logically for a moment. I mentioned I used it on a character I was leveling. Do you really think that character, or any new character for that matter,
1. would have the EC to try and buy Plasma Boosting items?
2. would have gotten enough of them to drop to keep and equip it and make a difference in a handful of fights?
3. would have built their ship around nothing but plasma weapons to even bother wanting them in the first place if they weren't a Rom character?
Also, unless I had one hell of a bug on 3 separate runs the console did jack all to take out the torps.
You're going to get tired of hearing it before I get tired of saying it. How is a new player going to not only have the console but the boosting items to go along with it to make use of it if they were even around to grab a phoenix box with the small amount of Dil they get by just doing story missions?
I'm going to breakdown and tear your points to pieces now. Ready?
So why bother suggesting it at all? You see the logical fallacy you're spouting? The people who need those aren't going to be able to equip them and the people that can don't need them to deal with the torp spam. Do you understand why suggesting this as an option is beyond stupid? Do you understand why I'm making such a point about hammering home that I'm not concerned about top level players but the ones that are just starting and will be turned off by a game that just kills them over and over for no real reason and asking in zone chat is going to get them variations of "git gud nub"? The game isn't friendly to new players, it doesn't explain near enough to help them understand the basic functions of the game, and trying to ask in game is like asking to have a "kick me" sign placed on your back.
Have you read how much of a benefit that gives? Here's I'll do that for you, "+10% Accuracy". Have you bothered to even math that out? It's not a lot of a bonus and even using it, unless you get lucky with random drops to get [Acc] mods it's going to literally do TRIBBLE all for your overall accuracy. Even using it on a leveling character you'll miss just as many shots on destructables as you would if you didn't have it equipped, it literally does that little. There's a reason anyone who actually checks dumps it the moment they can.
This trait is EVEN WORSE. Have you ever actually tried checking how much defense this actually gives? It's even WORSE than the Accuracy trait because at least Accuracy doesn't scramble off into a scream spiral of diminishing returns. Even AT the low levels of defense that a leveling character would have it literally adds almost nothing, especially not enough to let you have any reasonable chance or dodging or mitigating the damage from those torps. Don't believe me? Try it for yourself. Go level a character and slap on the two traits you just recommended. Enjoy dying and not hitting the torps.
They are common, but again have you ever used one? How much hull do those low level ships have and how much defense do those consoles actually give in the rarity they drop at for that level range? Again, nice suggestion but in practice it falls apart due to how "crypticmath(tm)" actually works and if you had bothered to even try it in game on a character in the level range we're talking about you'll see exactly how pointless it is in regards to the damage being pointed at you.
Even moving at full impulse doesn't actually provide as much dodge as you're trying to tout. Even if we combine Elusive and moving at full impulse it STILL doesn't provide as much defense as you're trying to tout. Are you actually doing any math to reasonably make points or have you actually tried leveling a character without help from your main at any point in the last year? My initial guess would be no to both points because if you had done either you'd realize how absolutely silly both of those are.
You know the funniest part about that. They're destructable torps. Have you logged into Tribble and tested it recently. I'll give you a minute to realize how severly you just made a "ohh...right". Yeah, the NPC's were affected by the change as well. Go enjoy being eaten alive by faster and more defensive torps.
Except it doesn't appear like it's been adjusted to properly take ACC into account still. I know, because I've tested it on tribble on both a lower level toon and a max one with beams that are stacked with ACC along with taking every ACC boosting trait that I can. On the lower level toon the torps ate my face faster than they have every done in the past and every shot missed meaning I at every torp instead of the one or two that I usually did. Combine that with subsystems going offline at the same time and me scrambling to get one up only for the ship to use it again and my cleanse being on cooldown at that point making me a sitting duck, something a new player wouldn't realize he/she could do at that level most likely making it pointless to use in testing situations, means people are now going to die and get frustrated even faster now Go test it for yourself on a leveling toon without a bunch of hand me down account bound equipment. BFAW doesn't still work, which you'd know if you had bothered to take some time to actually test it in multiple level brackets and at multiple stat amounts. But why would you bother doing that when all your characters are maxed and you can just pass down any equipment you please.
See section about how silly you are being in regards to Accuracy and try again later.
Yes, I have. You want to know the best part about that? It's given me time to actually test things over the years. To actually have characters at various levels to also test things. Maybe you need to take that into account and actually go do some testing of your own to make sure your points actually have a basis in the game and not the "oh it looks like this on the tin so it should work like that" without realizing that it doesn't and you need to actually go test things instead of spouting off "advice" that doesn't work.
I get you're trying to offer options but you're not actually thinking about what you're offering, what level range you're talking about, what those options actually offer in the situation we're discussing, and overall how little there is there to help besides the skill that's being nerfed. To top that off the Torps and Fighters are being BUFFED in the same patch making it an even larger divide between the two and making all the suggestions you just offered even LESS EFFECTIVE than they would be right now. It's like you're not putting 2 and 2 together and looking at the big picture. Please do so, please go actually test things before you offer more advice, and please actually start thinking logically before making any further suggestions because you're spouting off things that honestly don't do near enough to help your cause.
Listen, I know that it may not be important to many people, But I think that immersion is important just as much as mechanics and numeric values.
I find the fact that the Callisto’s are the same sizer as the Delta Flyer to be immersion breaking and frustrating.
What I find immersive and fun with carriers is this: With fighters, you get to have a swarm of 12 little bees swarming around firing their little weapons - It’s fun. With Shuttles, you get 8 larger craft zipping around with their beam weapons, stronger hulls, and control abilities. And lastly, with the frigate pets, you get 4 larger craft that you CAN SEE, let me repeat, THAT YOU CAN SEE, on screen, giving you that awesome feeling that you are in control of a small fleet.
I find it difficult to get around the fact that I only get 4 Callisto’s and I can barely see them on screen. Their torpedoes they fire are bigger on screen then they are. And yes, I know some people would like to point out the strength of the Defiant compared to larger ships, but come on, given the strength difference between the Callisto and a runabout, they should just be bigger. In fact, I think they might be smaller than the Yellowstone? (Maybe not)
Anyway, that’s my rant. Some might disagree or find it petty, but I spent years waiting for a Federation carrier and frigate pets that would give me the same feeling I get when I fly a Jem'hadar carrier with attack ships, or a Vo'quv with B’rels.
Photonic Shockwave should break the lock. I think that it works on destructible torpedoes, too, but I have tested it in a while.
I have heard that the new B:FaW has a -20% Accuracy Penalty.
I am not sure what Small Targets have. I am guessing it is around -20% as well.
100%-20%-20%+10%=70% If you fire only a single weapon once.
[quote"]Are you actually doing any math to reasonably make points or have you actually tried leveling a character without help from your main at any point in the last year? My initial guess would be no to both points because if you had done either you'd realize how absolutely silly both of those are.[/quote]
I have, in fact. Prior to AoY my character was Galaeanyss, or Nyssa for short. She used No C-Store Items, No Lockbox Items, No Fleet Items. She received no Hand-Me-Downs. Not only did she never use Beam: Fire At Will, she used no energy weapons of any kind in Space or on the Ground (save for a portion of the tutorial where they were required). She was raised using nothing but Drops and the Starting Gear. In Space, she has hit for over a 200K+ damage on multiple occasions. In case you are wondering, that would be through a combination of close targets and a Tricobalt Torpedo Spread.
So, no, you don't need to purchase Items to do well. You don't need B:FaW. You don't need to use Keybinds (which I nothing about). What you do need to read the Tooltips and consider what you want to accomplish and consider how to go about achieving your goal.
I am now done with this conversation. Good day to you, Sir (or madam, as the case may be).
B:FAW I: -50% Accuracy; -20% Damage
B:FAW II: -40% Accuracy; -15% Damage
B:FAW III: -30% Accuracy: -10% Damage
Ouch. That is a pretty impressive dip. Beam users are going to need to put points in to Targeting.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
So from what I gather from your reply you use torps and that magically makes you a master of knowledge of beam weapons. You didn't actually check the Tribble patch notes, you aren't posting any actual testing data to even try and refute my points, and all you're doing is tossing random tidbits that you have a torp build and think that magically makes every point I stated incorrect somehow. Newsflash, nothing you posted in any way makes you right.
The fact that you're "now done with this conversation" means you have no actual reply to my points and simply want to avoid having to actually debate the topic or in any way prove you're correct. It makes it really appear that you KNOW you're not right and just don't have any way to refute what I wrote. If you want to run off, fine, but that pretty much proves I'm right because you have nothing at all to prove my points incorrect. Maybe in the future you should read patch notes and actually have defensible points before getting into an argument that you're going to lose.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
"Set the goals higher and higher. Don't make the players weaker. That's just lazy." so you mean constant powercreep is good ? you have no idea what you've just said, a complete rebalance of powers was needed, and this fix isnt by far the lazy solution. it is the goddamn right solution. now you can go cry somewhere else just because youve lost some dps ( everyone did fyi )
Less dps, less exotic damage, less shield and hull regen, less resistance...
Take an Engineer into Tribble.
+++++++++++
On a totally different note: I lack the perceptive ability to notice:
"The flight speed of targetable torpedoes has been increased."
"The range at which mines acquire their target has been increased."
Going back and forth from Tribble to Holodeck watching torpedoes is not exactly on my list of happy weekend activities.
Besides, not very efficient.
Is there any numbers attached to the phenomenons of "faster torpedoes"? Or mine target range?
Difference between Holodeck and Tribble, please?
(Sorry if this has been asked already...did not want to scroll through 10 pages of comments....yet)
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
1. Make Elite Content for powerful builds
2. Nerf abilities.
We may not like it (I don't, my "fun" is being able to blow stuff up fast its the game meta killing NPC's) but from a financial point of view this was the most cost effective way for Cryptic to do this. Creating new content costs far more than adjusting game mechanics. Its just a shame players time and purchases had to be sacrificed to make these changes.
Lets hope once it does go live its not as damaging as we think, If the ground changes are done and space turns out the same then i can live it with as with my ground toons the only change that really affected me was the nerf to Tachyon Concussive Emission which i swapped out for the Lukari Tier 5 power.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
No one seems to have any numbers and the devs have been asked a few times. I did notice a small increases in torpedo speed but mines even after testing I found it hard to notice any difference. We are going to need 2 people in PvP to do testing to get numbers. Just from fighting NPC's nothing much has changed.
Not that anybody cares, but I agree with both points. The first kinda stands out as a ore thumb (some things are buffed in percentiles, some not), second is bordering on being useless as I'd expect anybody to run some kind of eng team anyway. And that has a way lower CD than the 60 seconds proposed here for the so-called "hot fix".
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Yes, they need to make smarter enemies, but simply adding power continually boxes them in in terms of each new item, specialization, etc. released. My guess is that it was the players rather than some indefinite idea of 'money men' that drove this...many people playing some close variation of the same build utilizing leech and embassy consoles, some abilities or items never being used, one or more careers played less frequently than others. Who knows what data/metrics they have to look at that you and I will never see, and what they infer from it?
That, and the two consoles you singled out have been the subject of the majority of complaints I've seen in every thread relating to the rebalance...which shows you why they needed to be addressed. If those 2 items pretty much always had a seat at the table, that tells the devs that they're performing (or being used in a way) that was counter to the design intent. If we go back to the plasma consoles, for example...they originally had a plasma DoT of the same strength as plasma weapons. So, they did 3 things: buff a sci stat, scale threat, and make any weapon type a plasma hybrid...try getting 10's of thousands of dps out of the proc from plasma beams, and you start to see how they diverge from the original design. Personally, I'd like to see them go back to that idea and either move to an equip limit of one or have the 10s shared lockout the other embassy consoles do right now, the latter of which would also retain their utility as stat boosts and threatscale.
Thanks potts.
Are there still any PvP people to test anything on Tribble any more? I don't think there is.
It's OK. I finally got some time. Take my Rom Sci with regular Plasma torps on her. Maybe I can see something...I have to dig out her mines, too.
EDIT: Wow. Something is definitely up with the mines. Maybe it is improvement from extra range?? No way of measuring that, really.
Torpedo spread seems to be acting weird....as in it doesn't look like it is spreading out. At least, on the regular plasma torps. All projectiles are just hitting one target....it looks like my cannons firing. But I will take that.
As far as torp speed...I think I will try it on my KDF in the BoP tomorrow. On the BoP I can fire torps in cloak so keep the extra fireworks off the scenery.
(playing solo, so I have to do this stuff in combat, anyways, can't watch or see everything around me).
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I always assumed my Callistos we're the size of the defiant roughly because I think of them as T6 Aquarius Light Escorts, I had no idea they we're the size of Delta Fliers.
How does that compare to say BoP pets or the Odyssey's Aquarius?
This should give you an idea of how big your Callistos should be compared to shuttles.
The Callisto, its clear on the ship so it's odd if it's smaller then a Delta Flier.
I think the problem is that Shuttles in this game are not appropriately sized. If they were, they'd be too small to be easily visible.
After cruising through SB24 and Argala for an afternoon with my engineer i have to say that while changes are noticeable they are far from crippling.
The current setup seems pretty close to the mark considering that science and tactical always crank out higher numbers.
I made 2 quick screenshots:
This one is the Breen carrier with 4 Yellowstones and 2 Plesh Brek Frigates.
http://i.imgur.com/3XPqA9w.jpg
This is a screenshot of 4 Yellowstones and 2 Callisto's.
http://i.imgur.com/KKo9yew.jpg
I can make more screenshots, but they will all show the same thing. Romulan Drones, Klingon BoPs, Jem'Hadar or Spear Builder frigates, they are all much larger. The Callisto's are the only frigate class ships that are the size of the shuttles. And it bothers the hell out of me lol.
I will say... Alas, my poor Plasmonic Leech... RIP...