I hope they don't ruin the game. I don't mind if they change how some abilities work and what not. But if they are going to rework how damage scales toward power levels, as well consequently making EPS less useful... and also altering several abilities...
In such a case, what we are looking at is a balance that could significantly reduce the combat strength of every player above level 50.
Every player having a lowered combat strength? Hardly - us scis have had nerf after nerf thrown our way and we've come back every time, adapting as needed
Of course the fact you and others reckon it will have such a massive effect speaks volumes at how overdue faw getting its day in the nerflight and further justifies its changes - no ability should be the 'go to or gtfo' option like faw is.
I'm sure the people who derive their livelihood from STO worry more about not ruining the game than you ever will.
Shaking up the current meta is something that's been desperately needed for a long, long time. All signs so far are the changes will go exactly where I'd have hoped, with ability choices being more situational (ooo, you mean I might wish I'd brough an ability OTHER than FAW? Shocking...) and overall damage outputs for the most precisely tuned ships being fewer multiples of the herd. But when one person can do 10 times the expected damage of an entire team, really, we have some 'performance slack' we can afford to lose.
Every player having a lowered combat strength? Hardly - us scis have had nerf after nerf thrown our way and we've come back every time, adapting as needed
Of course the fact you and others reckon it will have such a massive effect speaks volumes at how overdue faw getting its day in the nerflight and further justifies its changes - no ability should be the 'go to or gtfo' option like faw is.
I wasn't even talking about Fire at Will. People seem to gravitate toward talking about it and I can understand why. But there is more to this balance than just that. And when you add them altogether what you will possibly see less combat performance regardless of magnitude and importance.
And what I am more concerned with are the core mechanics of let's say power levels. That is to say, your ability to do damage without abilities. Your innate damage output so to say. And since we are on the subject of classes, last time I checked all the classes are more or less reliant on the mechanics of power levels and the use weapons and mechanics involving them. In other words, a possible reduction for all the classes if you look at core mechanics alone.
And either way, the impact after the balance may not be significant but I consider any reduction in combat strength no matter the magnitude and what capacity, still a reduction in combat strength. If it can be weighed up by something else, fine. That would be perfectly great.
And since you are berating me for using Fire at Will in any sort of capacity, I presume you do not? You may not rely on it but I can almost guarantee that you have one tier or the other of it somewhere on your action tray.
Oh and by the way, I use Beam Overload most of the time.
[Over] isn't that bad. I had a friend last night break 86k in a PUG using MkII [Dmg]x2 [Over] Phasers with a substantial amount of the DPS coming from [Over] procs. One simply has to build towards it properly.
which is currently impossible to do as most of the things that work with BO DON'T work with [Over]
To be honest - hate to sound like a smart***, but as I've said - I don't use FAW on any of my ships.
Lets be honest - it's been OP for a long time now and really did become The One Ability to Rule Them All. And it seemed obvious, to me, that the Devs would realise it one day - it was really just a case of when. And here we are.
Agreed... and I always thought it was quite boring to use too. Not to mention it just draws aggro and may get you killed in Elite STFs. For this reason I created a build that was meant to emphasize single target engagement. Mostly because I thought it was more fun to engage one target and sort of duke it out.
My build philosophy in STO has always been about as much innate damage as possible. That is to say, when you are just firing your weapons without any beam or cannon abilities activated. I like high consistent and sustained fire over peak damage.
To be honest - hate to sound like a smart***, but as I've said - I don't use FAW on any of my ships.
Lets be honest - it's been OP for a long time now and really did become The One Ability to Rule Them All. And it seemed obvious, to me, that the Devs would realise it one day - it was really just a case of when. And here we are.
FaW itself was not the powerhouse. The list provided by @ussvaliant#6064 sums it up quite well.
1. Romulan Superior Operative
2. Doffs that boost energy weapon Crit
3. Plasma Embassy Consoles
4. Consoles that improve Crit chance/sev
5. Attack Patterns Omega/Beta/Delta/Delta Prime
6. Personal Traits i.e Beam Training, Anchored and if a Tact Captain A Good Day To Die
7. Starship Mastery Traits
8. Consoles boosting Weapons Haste
9. Spec Tree's
10. Reputation Traits that boost Crit
11. Spire Consoles boosting Crit
12. Tact Captains get Attack Pattern Alpha, Tact Fleet and Fire On My Mark.
13. Skill tree and Sci Ultimate.
*Added to List: #14: Weapons Overcapping + Insane EPS consoles
FaW by itself is not that powerful. Enter a PUG and parse, most often I'm grouped with 4 PUGS who are spamming FaW everywhere and don't even break 20k.
A highly synergized/optimized FaW is the real core issue, not the ability itself.
This means those sub 20k FaW users in PUGS wont even crack 10k.
Queues will be worse then it is now for population as any competent player will stick to DPS channel games (who has access to them).
The divide between uber DPS players and regular Joe players may indeed shrink, but will surely drive a wedge even deeper between the DPS player and the regular Joe PUG player.
The epeen will get worse not better.
Then you get idiots in the thread who call this guy a paranoid fear monger for making a damn good point about how the FaW situation got out of control..
SMH.
and PvP sounds like its going to be completely F'd up, worse then it is even now.
It'll be Tacs all the time, subnuking you every 3 seconds.
If FAW is "not that powerful" then what do you have to worry about with it getting reduced damage and accuracy? You'll still have all those other tools...
...Except you can't seriously think that every single item on that list isn't getting a rather stern looking-at. Some will be deemed acceptable, and some will get trimmed-to-outright-butchered. Personally I expect Superior Romulan Operative to stop stacking with itself. There's precedent for Boff space traits being one-and-done.
Tribble Patch Notes Day will be the beginning of a brief, but very entertaining Age of Salt.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
To be honest - hate to sound like a smart***, but as I've said - I don't use FAW on any of my ships.
Lets be honest - it's been OP for a long time now and really did become The One Ability to Rule Them All. And it seemed obvious, to me, that the Devs would realise it one day - it was really just a case of when. And here we are.
FaW itself was not the powerhouse. The list provided by @ussvaliant#6064 sums it up quite well.
1. Romulan Superior Operative
2. Doffs that boost energy weapon Crit
3. Plasma Embassy Consoles
4. Consoles that improve Crit chance/sev
5. Attack Patterns Omega/Beta/Delta/Delta Prime
6. Personal Traits i.e Beam Training, Anchored and if a Tact Captain A Good Day To Die
7. Starship Mastery Traits
8. Consoles boosting Weapons Haste
9. Spec Tree's
10. Reputation Traits that boost Crit
11. Spire Consoles boosting Crit
12. Tact Captains get Attack Pattern Alpha, Tact Fleet and Fire On My Mark.
13. Skill tree and Sci Ultimate.
*Added to List: #14: Weapons Overcapping + Insane EPS consoles
FaW by itself is not that powerful. Enter a PUG and parse, most often I'm grouped with 4 PUGS who are spamming FaW everywhere and don't even break 20k.
A highly synergized/optimized FaW is the real core issue, not the ability itself.
This means those sub 20k FaW users in PUGS wont even crack 10k.
Queues will be worse then it is now for population as any competent player will stick to DPS channel games (who has access to them).
The divide between uber DPS players and regular Joe players may indeed shrink, but will surely drive a wedge even deeper between the DPS player and the regular Joe PUG player.
The epeen will get worse not better.
Then you get idiots in the thread who call this guy a paranoid fear monger for making a damn good point about how the FaW situation got out of control..
SMH.
and PvP sounds like its going to be completely F'd up, worse then it is even now.
It'll be Tacs all the time, subnuking you every 3 seconds.
Sounds like great fun.
Good post there Taylor and yea I agree.
By now we have up to 27 item slots, 6 boff stations, 10 personal traits, 5 passive reputation traits, 5 active ones, 6 doff slots and 2 specializations. Players who dedicate all those slots towards DPS will likely end up doing, well, much DPS.
The committed parts of this game’s community are completely networked over DPS leagues, forums and channels to spread out at an instant what’s best to use where and when.
Some players are around for years and gained enough experience to hit the optimum order of abilities at exactly the right moments.
I really hope the disappointment of those who dislike fire at will won’t be too hard when they see that aside from a 20% tac DPS drop game wide nothing really changed. On the contrary if abilities get abandoned because they are not powerful enough anymore they have a hobbit of getting replaced by something that is fairly soon.
Any 20% loss will just be next lock box’s 20% gain.
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'a 'hobbit' of getting replaced'? since when was this lord of the rings?
Hehe, pointing out your little miss in DPS meta in the other thread really seems to have turned me into object of desire for you. You missed that a year or two ago bud, no hard feelings ok?
In any case don’t let that stop you from cleaning up behind me. I know that I’m not perfect and I’m totally easy with that. Many thanks in advance by the way.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
To be honest - hate to sound like a smart***, but as I've said - I don't use FAW on any of my ships.
Lets be honest - it's been OP for a long time now and really did become The One Ability to Rule Them All. And it seemed obvious, to me, that the Devs would realise it one day - it was really just a case of when. And here we are.
FaW itself was not the powerhouse. The list provided by @ussvaliant#6064 sums it up quite well.
1. Romulan Superior Operative
2. Doffs that boost energy weapon Crit
3. Plasma Embassy Consoles
4. Consoles that improve Crit chance/sev
5. Attack Patterns Omega/Beta/Delta/Delta Prime
6. Personal Traits i.e Beam Training, Anchored and if a Tact Captain A Good Day To Die
7. Starship Mastery Traits
8. Consoles boosting Weapons Haste
9. Spec Tree's
10. Reputation Traits that boost Crit
11. Spire Consoles boosting Crit
12. Tact Captains get Attack Pattern Alpha, Tact Fleet and Fire On My Mark.
13. Skill tree and Sci Ultimate.
*Added to List: #14: Weapons Overcapping + Insane EPS consoles
FaW by itself is not that powerful. Enter a PUG and parse, most often I'm grouped with 4 PUGS who are spamming FaW everywhere and don't even break 20k.
A highly synergized/optimized FaW is the real core issue, not the ability itself.
This means those sub 20k FaW users in PUGS wont even crack 10k.
Queues will be worse then it is now for population as any competent player will stick to DPS channel games (who has access to them).
The divide between uber DPS players and regular Joe players may indeed shrink, but will surely drive a wedge even deeper between the DPS player and the regular Joe PUG player.
The epeen will get worse not better.
Then you get idiots in the thread who call this guy a paranoid fear monger for making a damn good point about how the FaW situation got out of control..
SMH.
and PvP sounds like its going to be completely F'd up, worse then it is even now.
It'll be Tacs all the time, subnuking you every 3 seconds.
Sounds like great fun.
Any 20% loss will just be next lock box’s 20% gain.
And there's this ^^
Just how long until we're back to where we started ?
Will new abilities/traits have more QA testing ? So things don't escalate so drastically ?
I mean, if theyre not going to step up QA we will be right back here in no time.
Just with slightly different meta.
And that's pointless imo.
If FAW is "not that powerful" then what do you have to worry about with it getting reduced damage and accuracy? You'll still have all those other tools...
...Except you can't seriously think that every single item on that list isn't getting a rather stern looking-at. Some will be deemed acceptable, and some will get trimmed-to-outright-butchered. Personally I expect Superior Romulan Operative to stop stacking with itself. There's precedent for Boff space traits being one-and-done.
Tribble Patch Notes Day will be the beginning of a brief, but very entertaining Age of Salt.
I would hope it all gets looked at Nike. The 1 SRO thing would be something I'd support.
And granted, FaW is by far the *most effective* delivery system for that long list of OP stuff...
So I'm not actually opposed to the changes.
I just don't like the broadstroking going on here, and brandishing FaW as the Ultimate Villain, when there's so many other mechanics at work that make FaW what it is.
Some would act as if you can just slap on FaW and be facerolling the game. Doing 75K no problemo. Easy peasy. With MkII gear.
I really don't like that attitude of using absolutes in a debate. You can't even have a discussion or reason with people like that.
They become zealot-like on a crusade. Meanwhile they don't even realize there's a long list of other factors lending itself to FaW OP'ness.
FaW is just the most convenient/effective delivery system for a long list of other broken stuff.
Which again, is why I'm not against the changes. But like you pointed out, I really do hope they're going to look at everything on that list.
Because one nerf to FaW (and weapon power bonuses) won't go very far at all if game balance is the goal. We have tons of other legitimate targets. So I mean, there's no need for everyone to go all highschool/bandwagon on FaW. There's plenty of blame to go around.
Let's have a discussion, not carry pitchforks and Anti FaW Banners while beating our chests like savages.
Anyone with half a brain can see it's a lot deeper then just FaW.
Thank you, some sensibility in a well thought out post
To be honest - hate to sound like a smart***, but as I've said - I don't use FAW on any of my ships.
Lets be honest - it's been OP for a long time now and really did become The One Ability to Rule Them All. And it seemed obvious, to me, that the Devs would realise it one day - it was really just a case of when. And here we are.
FaW itself was not the powerhouse. The list provided by @ussvaliant#6064 sums it up quite well.
1. Romulan Superior Operative
2. Doffs that boost energy weapon Crit
3. Plasma Embassy Consoles
4. Consoles that improve Crit chance/sev
5. Attack Patterns Omega/Beta/Delta/Delta Prime
6. Personal Traits i.e Beam Training, Anchored and if a Tact Captain A Good Day To Die
7. Starship Mastery Traits
8. Consoles boosting Weapons Haste
9. Spec Tree's
10. Reputation Traits that boost Crit
11. Spire Consoles boosting Crit
12. Tact Captains get Attack Pattern Alpha, Tact Fleet and Fire On My Mark.
13. Skill tree and Sci Ultimate.
*Added to List: #14: Weapons Overcapping + Insane EPS consoles
FaW by itself is not that powerful. Enter a PUG and parse, most often I'm grouped with 4 PUGS who are spamming FaW everywhere and don't even break 20k.
A highly synergized/optimized FaW is the real core issue, not the ability itself.
This means those sub 20k FaW users in PUGS wont even crack 10k.
Queues will be worse then it is now for population as any competent player will stick to DPS channel games (who has access to them).
The divide between uber DPS players and regular Joe players may indeed shrink, but will surely drive a wedge even deeper between the DPS player and the regular Joe PUG player.
The epeen will get worse not better.
Then you get idiots in the thread who call this guy a paranoid fear monger for making a damn good point about how the FaW situation got out of control..
SMH.
and PvP sounds like its going to be completely F'd up, worse then it is even now.
It'll be Tacs all the time, subnuking you every 3 seconds.
Sounds like great fun.
Any 20% loss will just be next lock box’s 20% gain.
And there's this ^^
Just how long until we're back to where we started ?
Will new abilities/traits have more QA testing ? So things don't escalate so drastically ?
I mean, if theyre not going to step up QA we will be right back here in no time.
Just with slightly different meta.
And that's pointless imo.
Never try to improve things, because they might get better later? Should Crpytic stop fixing bugs, since they'll introduce new ones later, too?
I think that's not a very productive attitude.
And the goal of the change is that there will be more viable builds then there are now. Even if the power creep later adds the 20 % back, if it means someone might be running a BFAW build and someone else a Beam Overload build and someone else a Cannon Rapid Fire build and they are all equally competitive, then it would be a improvement to what we have now, even if the creep is still there.
Of course, no guarantee that they'll achieve that, but not doing anythnig at all is certainly not going to achieve it either.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
((shrug)) I don't have to "debate" on FAW. The changes they're moving towards are already within spitting distance of my exact preferred nerfs for it (I wanted damage to be reduced only if there were too few targets present, and for the accuracy penalties to only apply to hangar pets and projectiles). They seem to be using simpler systems (-all damage, - all accuracy) and a little heavier hand than I advocated for. Can't say that bothers me. Maybe now that the axe is already falling someone will suddenly come up with a profound reason it shouldn't get chopped, or present a neat alternative to the aspects that are gonna get chopped, but frankly I've been listening attentively and discussing openly for 18 months now, and I ain't heard great proposals of either sort.
We already had this thread last month, and people had a big long list of things that contribute to the problem. Make no mistake, the Devs read that thread... And while I'm sure 95% of the culprits and solutions had already occurred to them, we'll likely be seeing a few gems from it appearing in the upcoming Tribble Patch Notes. Then we can really get down to chest beating .
But mostly I think if there's "bandwagoning" is because no matter how many people say its not the only troublesome mechanic, it probably is the worst offender and its one of the few things they openly took the nerfbat to in the blog.
Look at the title of the thread. That's a ton of pent up frustration finally finding release right there.
Well obviously Crpytic believes that Sub-System Targeting is the way to go. Every Energy Weapons Officer you can get from the Commendation Store buffs that (only).
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I am so looking forward to the new Sub-System Targeting. That's gonna be like a whole new tray on my 'true' science ships (Annorax, Eternal, Paradox). Especially the ones already mounting cannons.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
They've got Sensor Analysis, Target Subsystems, and Commander Science seating. What definition of "Science Ship" are you using that "Dreadnought" counts as 'instead of' rather than 'in addition to'?
I am so looking forward to the new Sub-System Targeting. That's gonna be like a whole new tray on my 'true' science ships (Annorax, Eternal, Paradox). Especially the ones already mounting cannons.
I only have the Eternal and Paradox but yea, that new mechanic sounds interesting. As far as the definition of science ships is concerned I’d volunteer the secondary deflector.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
It's still a good mod (not ideal, but still good) when you build a ship with multiple (if not all) beams with the mod (like what my friend did). So @redvenge's assertion that it is "terrible" isn't really correct. It's not ideal ([Pen] is still the crafted mod that would give the most benefit) but it isn't that far behind.
I'm talking about the future [Over], which is NOT a "Beam: Overload I" but a "super-charged beam blast".
It will not get the new mechanics of B:O. This is why I said [CrtH] would be better since it is an additional 2% chance to add my damage severity to the next attack rather than a separate 2.5% chance for a modest damage boost.
They've got Sensor Analysis, Target Subsystems, and Commander Science seating. What definition of "Science Ship" are you using that "Dreadnought" counts as 'instead of' rather than 'in addition to'?
a science ship has 6 weapons - a science dreadnought has 7; that's the only definition needed
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
They've got Sensor Analysis, Target Subsystems, and Commander Science seating. What definition of "Science Ship" are you using that "Dreadnought" counts as 'instead of' rather than 'in addition to'?
They also get a secondary deflector, another indicator that they are indeed Science Vessels... Just Science Vessels that are more heavily armed.
A Jupiter has 6 weapons. So does an Atrox. Neither are Science Vessels.
Science Dreadnought is a subset of Science Vessels in the same way Dreadnought Cruiser is a subset of Cruisers. They get all the goodies standard Science Vessels get (Sensor Analysis, Subsystem Targeting, Secondary Deflectors, Commander Science seating), in addition to a bit more (like the extra weapons).
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Lets see if I've got this right. Science vessels can have 4 forward weapons AND a hangar (Sphere Builder Edoulg Science Vessel). But if they have 3 rear weapons at the same time they're not "science ships" any more? That seems like slicing it pretty thin.
Incidentally, the Annorax, Paradox and Eternal all have the same star ship mastery package. So the "Cruiser vs. Dreadnought Cruiser" argument tends to support the idea that the Annorax and Paradox are indeed "science ships".
The only thing "Dreadnought" uniquely adds a weapon slot. And while most science ships don't have hangars, all the T6 Multi-mission ones do and adding that didn't seem to get them kicked out of the club .
Comments
In such a case, what we are looking at is a balance that could significantly reduce the combat strength of every player above level 50.
Of course the fact you and others reckon it will have such a massive effect speaks volumes at how overdue faw getting its day in the nerflight and further justifies its changes - no ability should be the 'go to or gtfo' option like faw is.
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Shaking up the current meta is something that's been desperately needed for a long, long time. All signs so far are the changes will go exactly where I'd have hoped, with ability choices being more situational (ooo, you mean I might wish I'd brough an ability OTHER than FAW? Shocking...) and overall damage outputs for the most precisely tuned ships being fewer multiples of the herd. But when one person can do 10 times the expected damage of an entire team, really, we have some 'performance slack' we can afford to lose.
I wasn't even talking about Fire at Will. People seem to gravitate toward talking about it and I can understand why. But there is more to this balance than just that. And when you add them altogether what you will possibly see less combat performance regardless of magnitude and importance.
And what I am more concerned with are the core mechanics of let's say power levels. That is to say, your ability to do damage without abilities. Your innate damage output so to say. And since we are on the subject of classes, last time I checked all the classes are more or less reliant on the mechanics of power levels and the use weapons and mechanics involving them. In other words, a possible reduction for all the classes if you look at core mechanics alone.
And either way, the impact after the balance may not be significant but I consider any reduction in combat strength no matter the magnitude and what capacity, still a reduction in combat strength. If it can be weighed up by something else, fine. That would be perfectly great.
And since you are berating me for using Fire at Will in any sort of capacity, I presume you do not? You may not rely on it but I can almost guarantee that you have one tier or the other of it somewhere on your action tray.
Oh and by the way, I use Beam Overload most of the time.
Wrong. Sorry..
Agreed... and I always thought it was quite boring to use too. Not to mention it just draws aggro and may get you killed in Elite STFs. For this reason I created a build that was meant to emphasize single target engagement. Mostly because I thought it was more fun to engage one target and sort of duke it out.
My build philosophy in STO has always been about as much innate damage as possible. That is to say, when you are just firing your weapons without any beam or cannon abilities activated. I like high consistent and sustained fire over peak damage.
FaW itself was not the powerhouse. The list provided by @ussvaliant#6064 sums it up quite well.
1. Romulan Superior Operative
2. Doffs that boost energy weapon Crit
3. Plasma Embassy Consoles
4. Consoles that improve Crit chance/sev
5. Attack Patterns Omega/Beta/Delta/Delta Prime
6. Personal Traits i.e Beam Training, Anchored and if a Tact Captain A Good Day To Die
7. Starship Mastery Traits
8. Consoles boosting Weapons Haste
9. Spec Tree's
10. Reputation Traits that boost Crit
11. Spire Consoles boosting Crit
12. Tact Captains get Attack Pattern Alpha, Tact Fleet and Fire On My Mark.
13. Skill tree and Sci Ultimate.
*Added to List: #14: Weapons Overcapping + Insane EPS consoles
FaW by itself is not that powerful. Enter a PUG and parse, most often I'm grouped with 4 PUGS who are spamming FaW everywhere and don't even break 20k.
A highly synergized/optimized FaW is the real core issue, not the ability itself.
This means those sub 20k FaW users in PUGS wont even crack 10k.
Queues will be worse then it is now for population as any competent player will stick to DPS channel games (who has access to them).
The divide between uber DPS players and regular Joe players may indeed shrink, but will surely drive a wedge even deeper between the DPS player and the regular Joe PUG player.
The epeen will get worse not better.
Then you get idiots in the thread who call this guy a paranoid fear monger for making a damn good point about how the FaW situation got out of control..
SMH.
and PvP sounds like its going to be completely F'd up, worse then it is even now.
It'll be Tacs all the time, subnuking you every 3 seconds.
Sounds like great fun.
...Except you can't seriously think that every single item on that list isn't getting a rather stern looking-at. Some will be deemed acceptable, and some will get trimmed-to-outright-butchered. Personally I expect Superior Romulan Operative to stop stacking with itself. There's precedent for Boff space traits being one-and-done.
Tribble Patch Notes Day will be the beginning of a brief, but very entertaining Age of Salt.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Good post there Taylor and yea I agree.
By now we have up to 27 item slots, 6 boff stations, 10 personal traits, 5 passive reputation traits, 5 active ones, 6 doff slots and 2 specializations. Players who dedicate all those slots towards DPS will likely end up doing, well, much DPS.
The committed parts of this game’s community are completely networked over DPS leagues, forums and channels to spread out at an instant what’s best to use where and when.
Some players are around for years and gained enough experience to hit the optimum order of abilities at exactly the right moments.
I really hope the disappointment of those who dislike fire at will won’t be too hard when they see that aside from a 20% tac DPS drop game wide nothing really changed. On the contrary if abilities get abandoned because they are not powerful enough anymore they have a hobbit of getting replaced by something that is fairly soon.
Any 20% loss will just be next lock box’s 20% gain.
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Hehe, pointing out your little miss in DPS meta in the other thread really seems to have turned me into object of desire for you. You missed that a year or two ago bud, no hard feelings ok?
In any case don’t let that stop you from cleaning up behind me. I know that I’m not perfect and I’m totally easy with that. Many thanks in advance by the way.
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Damn STO temporal shenanigans
He is either from the future or there is something wrong with vanilla.
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And there's this ^^
Just how long until we're back to where we started ?
Will new abilities/traits have more QA testing ? So things don't escalate so drastically ?
I mean, if theyre not going to step up QA we will be right back here in no time.
Just with slightly different meta.
And that's pointless imo.
Thank you, some sensibility in a well thought out post
Never try to improve things, because they might get better later? Should Crpytic stop fixing bugs, since they'll introduce new ones later, too?
I think that's not a very productive attitude.
And the goal of the change is that there will be more viable builds then there are now. Even if the power creep later adds the 20 % back, if it means someone might be running a BFAW build and someone else a Beam Overload build and someone else a Cannon Rapid Fire build and they are all equally competitive, then it would be a improvement to what we have now, even if the creep is still there.
Of course, no guarantee that they'll achieve that, but not doing anythnig at all is certainly not going to achieve it either.
We already had this thread last month, and people had a big long list of things that contribute to the problem. Make no mistake, the Devs read that thread... And while I'm sure 95% of the culprits and solutions had already occurred to them, we'll likely be seeing a few gems from it appearing in the upcoming Tribble Patch Notes. Then we can really get down to chest beating
But mostly I think if there's "bandwagoning" is because no matter how many people say its not the only troublesome mechanic, it probably is the worst offender and its one of the few things they openly took the nerfbat to in the blog.
Look at the title of the thread. That's a ton of pent up frustration finally finding release right there.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I only have the Eternal and Paradox but yea, that new mechanic sounds interesting. As far as the definition of science ships is concerned I’d volunteer the secondary deflector.
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It will not get the new mechanics of B:O. This is why I said [CrtH] would be better since it is an additional 2% chance to add my damage severity to the next attack rather than a separate 2.5% chance for a modest damage boost.
a science ship has 6 weapons - a science dreadnought has 7; that's the only definition needed
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Fair enough. After the patch I may bring back some of my old [Over] beams from storage to test it out myself too.
They also get a secondary deflector, another indicator that they are indeed Science Vessels... Just Science Vessels that are more heavily armed.
A Jupiter has 6 weapons. So does an Atrox. Neither are Science Vessels.
Science Dreadnought is a subset of Science Vessels in the same way Dreadnought Cruiser is a subset of Cruisers. They get all the goodies standard Science Vessels get (Sensor Analysis, Subsystem Targeting, Secondary Deflectors, Commander Science seating), in addition to a bit more (like the extra weapons).
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Incidentally, the Annorax, Paradox and Eternal all have the same star ship mastery package. So the "Cruiser vs. Dreadnought Cruiser" argument tends to support the idea that the Annorax and Paradox are indeed "science ships".
The only thing "Dreadnought" uniquely adds a weapon slot. And while most science ships don't have hangars, all the T6 Multi-mission ones do and adding that didn't seem to get them kicked out of the club
Don't hate on my gunz
They share similar masteries and Dreadnoughts get some Cruiser commands as well.
Secondary Deflectors are pretty much Science Vessel exclusives. Both Annorax and Paradox get that, and are therefore Science Vessels.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!