I think the most interesting part about political dealings regarding the Borg would be about forming an Anti-Borg Alliance to take them out once and for all.
Task Force Omega and the Delta Alliance already take care of that TBH.
While the Delta Alliance was originally formed to tackle the Vaadwaur, we know they are also fighting the Borg.
Yup, that's the problem - once we had the Anti-Vaudwaur and Anti-Iconian alliances, convincing people to take out the Borg together shouldn't be hard.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I really wish STO would do its own take on Destiny and put the Borg out of their shambling, pathetic misery. The game has reduced them to chumps. Let 'em die with some dignity.
I really wish STO would do its own take on Destiny and put the Borg out of their shambling, pathetic misery. The game has reduced them to chumps. Let 'em die with some dignity.
I, personally, did not like the Destiny novels and the Borg were chumps on Voyager, but I do agree that the Borg need a final big we are not the borg, so resistance is not very futile, in fact you can keep your biological and technological distinctiveness.
I really wish STO would do its own take on Destiny and put the Borg out of their shambling, pathetic misery. The game has reduced them to chumps. Let 'em die with some dignity.
I, personally, did not like the Destiny novels and the Borg were chumps on Voyager, but I do agree that the Borg need a final big we are not the borg, so resistance is not very futile, in fact you can keep your biological and technological distinctiveness.
The borg weren't chumps on Voyager and they aren't chumps in STO. They've just settled at the hero-villain power equilibrium.
A villain may be overwhelmingly powerful when first introduced, but simply can't remain overwhelming for long because eventually they'd have to win and the show would be over. Thus a recurring villain will inevitably come to an equilibrium where they remain powerful enough to put up evil plans but the good guys will always win at the end.
I really wish STO would do its own take on Destiny and put the Borg out of their shambling, pathetic misery. The game has reduced them to chumps. Let 'em die with some dignity.
I, personally, did not like the Destiny novels and the Borg were chumps on Voyager, but I do agree that the Borg need a final big we are not the borg, so resistance is not very futile, in fact you can keep your biological and technological distinctiveness.
The borg weren't chumps on Voyager and they aren't chumps in STO. They've just settled at the hero-villain power equilibrium.
A villain may be overwhelmingly powerful when first introduced, but simply can't remain overwhelming for long because eventually they'd have to win and the show would be over. Thus a recurring villain will inevitably come to an equilibrium where they remain powerful enough to put up evil plans but the good guys will always win at the end.
Or... the Borg could have stayed the way they were when we first encountered them: massively superior. See, the thing is, a truly superior species (several orders of magnitude superior) wouldn't defeat us, as they're simply not interested in us. Q only transported us to the Borg to show us we're not ready for what's out there. Picard got a slice taken out of his hull, like it was a pizza, and then he high-tailed it out of there. That was the lesson.
But no, the Borg (definitely not Swedish) had to be made on par with us. I say the Borg, like the Iconians, should have stayed vastly superior to us. Like the Reaper said in Mass Effect: "There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even fathom it." And that would have been awesome.
I really wish STO would do its own take on Destiny and put the Borg out of their shambling, pathetic misery. The game has reduced them to chumps. Let 'em die with some dignity.
I, personally, did not like the Destiny novels and the Borg were chumps on Voyager, but I do agree that the Borg need a final big we are not the borg, so resistance is not very futile, in fact you can keep your biological and technological distinctiveness.
The borg weren't chumps on Voyager and they aren't chumps in STO. They've just settled at the hero-villain power equilibrium.
A villain may be overwhelmingly powerful when first introduced, but simply can't remain overwhelming for long because eventually they'd have to win and the show would be over. Thus a recurring villain will inevitably come to an equilibrium where they remain powerful enough to put up evil plans but the good guys will always win at the end.
Or... the Borg could have stayed the way they were when we first encountered them: massively superior. See, the thing is, a truly superior species (several orders of magnitude superior) wouldn't defeat us, as they're simply not interested in us. Q only transported us to the Borg to show us we're not ready for what's out there. Picard got a slice taken out of his hull, like it was a pizza, and then he high-tailed it out of there. That was the lesson.
Yes, but then they couldn't have been a recurring villain.
1. Repeatedly encountered
2. Massively superior
3. Always defeated
You can only pick two.
But no, the Borg (definitely not Swedish) had to be made on par with us. I say the Borg, like the Iconians, should have stayed vastly superior to us. Like the Reaper said in Mass Effect: "There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even fathom it." And that would have been awesome.
The reapers lost in the end. And if any show up in future installments of the series, they will have reached the equilibrium, too.
I really wish STO would do its own take on Destiny and put the Borg out of their shambling, pathetic misery. The game has reduced them to chumps. Let 'em die with some dignity.
I, personally, did not like the Destiny novels and the Borg were chumps on Voyager, but I do agree that the Borg need a final big we are not the borg, so resistance is not very futile, in fact you can keep your biological and technological distinctiveness.
The borg weren't chumps on Voyager and they aren't chumps in STO. They've just settled at the hero-villain power equilibrium.
A villain may be overwhelmingly powerful when first introduced, but simply can't remain overwhelming for long because eventually they'd have to win and the show would be over. Thus a recurring villain will inevitably come to an equilibrium where they remain powerful enough to put up evil plans but the good guys will always win at the end.
Or... the Borg could have stayed the way they were when we first encountered them: massively superior. See, the thing is, a truly superior species (several orders of magnitude superior) wouldn't defeat us, as they're simply not interested in us. Q only transported us to the Borg to show us we're not ready for what's out there. Picard got a slice taken out of his hull, like it was a pizza, and then he high-tailed it out of there. That was the lesson.
Yes, but then they couldn't have been a recurring villain.
1. Repeatedly encountered
2. Massively superior
3. Always defeated
You can only pick two.
You assume we need to be able to confront the Borg directly. Borg shouldn't be interested in us. Remember how they rushed right past Voyager, on to the Undine, and completely ignored Janeway and a crew? That's how it should be: we're just a speck on the radar. So, Borg vs. the Undine, now *that* was realistic. Yet, remember The Battle of Wolf 359? A single Cube destroyed all but one of Starfleet ships, with a death toll of over 11,000. Among the vessels destroyed were the U.S.S. Ahwahnee, U.S.S. Melbourne, U.S.S. Yamaguchi, and the U.S.S. Saratoga (wiki). That is how the Borg should be! Ultimately, that 1 Cube was defeated, but at an incredible toll. A few episodes later, we're going toe to toe with the Borg in a single Science vessel. That just wasn't right.
The reapers lost in the end. And if any show up in future installments of the series, they will have reached the equilibrium, too.
The Reapers lost because, like you, the writers of Mass Effect went with the forced 'hero-villain power equilibrium' paradigm. But, realistically, the Reapers should have won, easily.
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with equilibrium amongst mutual enemies. In fact, enemies are usually in that precise category (because enemies an order of magnitude bigger than you aren't interested in you; and, conversely, you're not interested in the small fish below you). What I *do* have a problem with, though, is that sheer godlike races, millions of years ahead of us, like the Iconians, for instance, suddenly are drastically 'emasculated', so as to now miraculously fight on our level (or we're on theirs, rather).
I really wish STO would do its own take on Destiny and put the Borg out of their shambling, pathetic misery. The game has reduced them to chumps. Let 'em die with some dignity.
I, personally, did not like the Destiny novels and the Borg were chumps on Voyager, but I do agree that the Borg need a final big we are not the borg, so resistance is not very futile, in fact you can keep your biological and technological distinctiveness.
The borg weren't chumps on Voyager and they aren't chumps in STO. They've just settled at the hero-villain power equilibrium.
A villain may be overwhelmingly powerful when first introduced, but simply can't remain overwhelming for long because eventually they'd have to win and the show would be over. Thus a recurring villain will inevitably come to an equilibrium where they remain powerful enough to put up evil plans but the good guys will always win at the end.
Or... the Borg could have stayed the way they were when we first encountered them: massively superior. See, the thing is, a truly superior species (several orders of magnitude superior) wouldn't defeat us, as they're simply not interested in us. Q only transported us to the Borg to show us we're not ready for what's out there. Picard got a slice taken out of his hull, like it was a pizza, and then he high-tailed it out of there. That was the lesson.
Yes, but then they couldn't have been a recurring villain.
1. Repeatedly encountered
2. Massively superior
3. Always defeated
You can only pick two.
You assume we need to be able to confront the Borg directly. Borg shouldn't be interested in us. Remember how they rushed right past Voyager, on to the Undine, and completely ignored Janeway and a crew? That's how it should be: we're just a speck on the radar. So, Borg vs. the Undine, now *that* was realistic. Yet, remember The Battle of Wolf 359? A single Cube destroyed all but one of Starfleet ships, with a death toll of over 11,000. Among the vessels destroyed were the U.S.S. Ahwahnee, U.S.S. Melbourne, U.S.S. Yamaguchi, and the U.S.S. Saratoga (wiki). That is how the Borg should be! Ultimately, that 1 Cube was defeated, but at an incredible toll. A few episodes later, we're going toe to toe with the Borg in a single Science vessel. That just wasn't right.
The reapers lost in the end. And if any show up in future installments of the series, they will have reached the equilibrium, too.
The Reapers lost because, like you, the writers of Mass Effect went with the forced 'hero-villain power equilibrium' paradigm. But, realistically, the Reapers should have won, easily.
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with equilibrium amongst mutual enemies. In fact, enemies are usually in that precise category (because enemies an order of magnitude bigger than you aren't interested in you; and, conversely, you're not interested in the small fish below you). What I *do* have a problem with, though, is that sheer godlike races, millions of years ahead of us, like the Iconians, for instance, suddenly are drastically 'emasculated', so as to now miraculously fight on our level (or we're on theirs, rather).
I don't think the Iconians wanted to destroy us, or else it would have happened. Their strategy seemed to consist of throwing forces at us in waves to grind down equipment, personnel, and most importantly our will in order to convince us to surrender. They could keep making more Heralds, they were basically expendable so the Iconians didn't care so long as they kept inflicting losses on us. The only thing we did that concerned them was wound T'Ket and (seemingly) kill M'Tara. From their perspective, their casualty list was one dead one wounded and that was it. They were on our front doorstep on their schedule, and they'd have had our surrender by the end of the day whether we liked it or not because we were rapidly running out of forces to resist them with. They only left because they ended up getting something they wanted more.
So sure, we could destroy the expendable, virtually endless cannon fodder they fielded, but it didn't help us much. We never had a chance for victory in that war, and we didn't win. We convinced them not to finish us off by doing something nice for them, that's all.
I really wish STO would do its own take on Destiny and put the Borg out of their shambling, pathetic misery. The game has reduced them to chumps. Let 'em die with some dignity.
I, personally, did not like the Destiny novels and the Borg were chumps on Voyager, but I do agree that the Borg need a final big we are not the borg, so resistance is not very futile, in fact you can keep your biological and technological distinctiveness.
The borg weren't chumps on Voyager and they aren't chumps in STO. They've just settled at the hero-villain power equilibrium.
A villain may be overwhelmingly powerful when first introduced, but simply can't remain overwhelming for long because eventually they'd have to win and the show would be over. Thus a recurring villain will inevitably come to an equilibrium where they remain powerful enough to put up evil plans but the good guys will always win at the end.
Or... the Borg could have stayed the way they were when we first encountered them: massively superior. See, the thing is, a truly superior species (several orders of magnitude superior) wouldn't defeat us, as they're simply not interested in us. Q only transported us to the Borg to show us we're not ready for what's out there. Picard got a slice taken out of his hull, like it was a pizza, and then he high-tailed it out of there. That was the lesson.
Yes, but then they couldn't have been a recurring villain.
1. Repeatedly encountered
2. Massively superior
3. Always defeated
You can only pick two.
You assume we need to be able to confront the Borg directly. Borg shouldn't be interested in us. Remember how they rushed right past Voyager, on to the Undine, and completely ignored Janeway and a crew? That's how it should be: we're just a speck on the radar. So, Borg vs. the Undine, now *that* was realistic. Yet, remember The Battle of Wolf 359? A single Cube destroyed all but one of Starfleet ships, with a death toll of over 11,000. Among the vessels destroyed were the U.S.S. Ahwahnee, U.S.S. Melbourne, U.S.S. Yamaguchi, and the U.S.S. Saratoga (wiki). That is how the Borg should be! Ultimately, that 1 Cube was defeated, but at an incredible toll. A few episodes later, we're going toe to toe with the Borg in a single Science vessel. That just wasn't right.
No I'm not. If the borg aren't interested in us, then they aren't a recurring villain.
You'd prefer the Star Trek writers had picked 2 and 3 and ended up with a massively superior enemy that was only ever encountered once and stopped by a fluke or Q finger-snap, instead of picking 1 and 3 and getting a recurring enemy that gets regularly defeated. That does not change the fact they could still pick only two claims at a time.
The reapers lost in the end. And if any show up in future installments of the series, they will have reached the equilibrium, too.
The Reapers lost because, like you, the writers of Mass Effect went with the forced 'hero-villain power equilibrium' paradigm. But, realistically, the Reapers should have won, easily.
But that would not have made a good story, good gameplay, or a good opportunity to make sequels.
And, a good story couldn't possibly have the reapers win, not just because they were the bad guys, but because that would be the obvious outcome. Because the obvious is boring.
The reapers lost in the end. And if any show up in future installments of the series, they will have reached the equilibrium, too.
The Reapers lost because, like you, the writers of Mass Effect went with the forced 'hero-villain power equilibrium' paradigm. But, realistically, the Reapers should have won, easily.
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with equilibrium amongst mutual enemies. In fact, enemies are usually in that precise category (because enemies an order of magnitude bigger than you aren't interested in you; and, conversely, you're not interested in the small fish below you). What I *do* have a problem with, though, is that sheer godlike races, millions of years ahead of us, like the Iconians, for instance, suddenly are drastically 'emasculated', so as to now miraculously fight on our level (or we're on theirs, rather).
Actually the Reapers were winning.... hands down. Even with 100% galactic readiness, the Turians and Asari had to abandon defense of their Homeworld, Hackett flat out states everything he's doing is just a delaying action, and even with the massed armada of the civilized galaxy, the Reapers just butcher it. The only reason you win that fight is because the AI in charge of the Reapers needs you too.
Hell Shepard is so fubar'd at that point you wouldn't even get up to the level where you "win" if that AI hadn't brought you to him.
The reapers lost in the end. And if any show up in future installments of the series, they will have reached the equilibrium, too.
The Reapers lost because, like you, the writers of Mass Effect went with the forced 'hero-villain power equilibrium' paradigm. But, realistically, the Reapers should have won, easily.
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with equilibrium amongst mutual enemies. In fact, enemies are usually in that precise category (because enemies an order of magnitude bigger than you aren't interested in you; and, conversely, you're not interested in the small fish below you). What I *do* have a problem with, though, is that sheer godlike races, millions of years ahead of us, like the Iconians, for instance, suddenly are drastically 'emasculated', so as to now miraculously fight on our level (or we're on theirs, rather).
Actually the Reapers were winning.... hands down. Even with 100% galactic readiness, the Turians and Asari had to abandon defense of their Homeworld, Hackett flat out states everything he's doing is just a delaying action, and even with the massed armada of the civilized galaxy, the Reapers just butcher it. The only reason you win that fight is because the AI in charge of the Reapers needs you too.
Hell Shepard is so fubar'd at that point you wouldn't even get up to the level where you "win" if that AI hadn't brought you to him.
Truth. The Crucible outright states that its solution is no longer tenable, and wants Shepard to choose the new way forward. (The only part that bugged me, at least after the endings were edited to take out the Luddite overtones, was the fact that when the Crucible asserted that synthetics and organics would inevitably fight to the death, and cited the geth/quarian conflict as proof, I was unable to refute the argument by pointing out that I myself had helped end that war and left the geth and quarians working together to restore Rannoch.)
And, a good story couldn't possibly have the reapers win, not just because they were the bad guys, but because that would be the obvious outcome. Because the obvious is boring.
And *I* assert that equilibrium is boring. Superior species/enemies add scale to the Universe, and therewith a sense that progress can be made. Take the Vorlons in Babylon 5. We knew little of them, except for a handful of reports of ships being sent into their space, never to return. And the other species got it: the Vorlons are millions of years ahead of us, and you don't mess with them. Period.
P.S. And yes, indeed, as others pointed out, the Reapers were winning, as they should, because they're vastly superior. Our 'win' achieved here, thru the whole 'Star Child' thingy, I thought that was a bit lame; but I guess that's a topic for another forum.
And, a good story couldn't possibly have the reapers win, not just because they were the bad guys, but because that would be the obvious outcome. Because the obvious is boring.
And *I* assert that equilibrium is boring. Superior species/enemies add scale to the Universe, and therewith a sense that progress can be made. Take the Vorlons in Babylon 5. We knew little of them, except for a handful of reports of ships being sent into their space, never to return. And the other species got it: the Vorlons are millions of years ahead of us, and you don't mess with them. Period.
And they weren't recurring villains either. The protagonists only ever fought them once. Sheridan tells them to "get the hell out of our galaxy" in the end. And they do.
And, a good story couldn't possibly have the reapers win, not just because they were the bad guys, but because that would be the obvious outcome. Because the obvious is boring.
And *I* assert that equilibrium is boring. Superior species/enemies add scale to the Universe, and therewith a sense that progress can be made. Take the Vorlons in Babylon 5. We knew little of them, except for a handful of reports of ships being sent into their space, never to return. And the other species got it: the Vorlons are millions of years ahead of us, and you don't mess with them. Period.
And they weren't recurring villains either. The protagonists only ever fought them once. Sheridan tells them to "get the hell out of our galaxy" in the end. And they do.
The Vorlons left, entirely on their own accord. There's nothing Sheridan could have done to force them.
And, a good story couldn't possibly have the reapers win, not just because they were the bad guys, but because that would be the obvious outcome. Because the obvious is boring.
And *I* assert that equilibrium is boring. Superior species/enemies add scale to the Universe, and therewith a sense that progress can be made. Take the Vorlons in Babylon 5. We knew little of them, except for a handful of reports of ships being sent into their space, never to return. And the other species got it: the Vorlons are millions of years ahead of us, and you don't mess with them. Period.
And they weren't recurring villains either. The protagonists only ever fought them once. Sheridan tells them to "get the hell out of our galaxy" in the end. And they do.
The Vorlons left, entirely on their own accord. There's nothing Sheridan could have done to force them.
I love the Tzenkethi design and their ships as well. It is really close to how they where envisioned by their DS9 creator and they definitely give off the same kind of foreboding that Sisko hinted at when mentioning them in DS9.
Ah, good. A new enemy, without all the time-travel BS, and aggressive enough that all the crying from the diplomacy and science crowds will properly fall on the deaf ears of a cold, uncaring military.
Feel free to go back to your classrooms.
My captains and their crews will be relieved. Wandering Federation space in perpetual listless boredom with no war to guide them was already making some lose their edge. Happily, we can once again embrace the contest of survival! May the best win!
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
Ah, good. A new enemy, without all the time-travel BS, and aggressive enough that all the crying from the diplomacy and science crowds will properly fall on the deaf ears of a cold, uncaring military.
Feel free to go back to your classrooms.
My captains and their crews will be relieved. Wandering Federation space in perpetual listless boredom with no war to guide them was already making some lose their edge. Happily, we can once again embrace the contest of survival! May the best win!
But the real question is, after the Tzenkethi, who do we REALLY have left to fight in the contest of survival?
At this point in the game's story, we have the Alpha Quadrant Alliance consisting of
-The United Federation of Planets
-The Klingon Empire
-The Romulan Republic
-The Cardassian Union
-The Ferengi Alliance
-The Gorn Hegemony
-The Ferasans(Aka the Kzinti Patriarchy)
-The Reman Resistance
-Other races such as the Orions, Nausicaans, Letheans, and Deferi
And while not part of the AQA, the AQA is on good terms with both
-The First Federation
-The Metron Consortium
And when it comes to the enemies we had in the region
-We slapped around the Klingon Empire troublemakers like B'vat, and the House of Torg
-We slapped around the Devidians
-We slapped around the Fek'Ihri Horde
-We slapped around the Orion Syndicate
-We slapped around the Romulan Star Empire
-We slapped around the Tal Shiar
-We slapped around the True Way Alliance
-We slapped around the New Link
-We slapped around the Breen Confederacy
-We slapped around the Tholian Assembly
-We slapped around, and GOT slapped around, the Iconians, and their servitor races such as the Elachi, Solanae, Bluegill, and Heralds
-We slapped around the Template Liberation Front consisting of the Krenim, Na'Kuhl, Sphere Builders, Vorgons, and Mirror Leeta
-We are about to slap around the Tzenkethi
Who do we have left to fight really? The primitive Talarians? The Sheliak who are so far away as to be unmappable?
Not even the Delta Quadrant holds anything for us at this point, as we helped formed the Delta Alliance consisting of
-The Benthan Guard
-The Borg Cooperative
-The Hazari
-The Hierarchy
-The Kobali
-The Krenim
-The Talaxians
-The Turei
-Some of the Kazon sects
And made friends with
-The Ocampa
-The Octanti
And when it comes to the enemies from the Delta Quadrant
-We slapped around the Borg Collective
-We slapped around the Voth
-We slapped around the Undine
-We slapped around the Vaadwaur Supremecy
-We slapped around other minor threats like the APUs, Hirogen, Kazon Collective, and Malon
After the Tzenkethi, the only real enemy left for us to fight is The Dominion, unless Cryptic goes all crazy and pulls out the Hur'q, or the T'kon, as major badguys.
Well, the Delta Quadrant is still a big unknown (although the same could really be said about much of the AQ & BQ.
And where the Delta Quadrant is concerned, there are one or two races that were mentioned but not seen. The Krowtonan Guard for example - although being territorial any story involving them would really require on either them deciding to expand or us finding ourselves in their territory.
And don't forget, there could still be many villains in a galaxy far, far away, waiting for their turn.
These fellows for example. Their battle cries are heart-piercing and will make even Klingons freeze in fear *shudder*
...
-We slapped around the Template Liberation Front consisting of the Krenim, Na'Kuhl, Sphere Builders, Vorgons, and Mirror Leeta
...
We did that twice with Mirror Leeta when the Terran Empire/Mirror Universe made a push. I'm kinda thinking she's enjoying that a bit to much. Those Mirror Universe people can be.... feisty at times.
Ah, good. A new enemy, without all the time-travel BS, and aggressive enough that all the crying from the diplomacy and science crowds will properly fall on the deaf ears of a cold, uncaring military.
Feel free to go back to your classrooms.
My captains and their crews will be relieved. Wandering Federation space in perpetual listless boredom with no war to guide them was already making some lose their edge. Happily, we can once again embrace the contest of survival! May the best win!
But the real question is, after the Tzenkethi, who do we REALLY have left to fight in the contest of survival?
At this point in the game's story, we have the Alpha Quadrant Alliance consisting of
-The United Federation of Planets
-The Klingon Empire
-The Romulan Republic
-The Cardassian Union
-The Ferengi Alliance
-The Gorn Hegemony
-The Ferasans(Aka the Kzinti Patriarchy)
-The Reman Resistance
-Other races such as the Orions, Nausicaans, Letheans, and Deferi
And while not part of the AQA, the AQA is on good terms with both
-The First Federation
-The Metron Consortium
And when it comes to the enemies we had in the region
-We slapped around the Klingon Empire troublemakers like B'vat, and the House of Torg
-We slapped around the Devidians
-We slapped around the Fek'Ihri Horde
-We slapped around the Orion Syndicate
-We slapped around the Romulan Star Empire
-We slapped around the Tal Shiar
-We slapped around the True Way Alliance
-We slapped around the New Link
-We slapped around the Breen Confederacy
-We slapped around the Tholian Assembly
-We slapped around, and GOT slapped around, the Iconians, and their servitor races such as the Elachi, Solanae, Bluegill, and Heralds
-We slapped around the Template Liberation Front consisting of the Krenim, Na'Kuhl, Sphere Builders, Vorgons, and Mirror Leeta
-We are about to slap around the Tzenkethi
Who do we have left to fight really? The primitive Talarians? The Sheliak who are so far away as to be unmappable?
Not even the Delta Quadrant holds anything for us at this point, as we helped formed the Delta Alliance consisting of
-The Benthan Guard
-The Borg Cooperative
-The Hazari
-The Hierarchy
-The Kobali
-The Krenim
-The Talaxians
-The Turei
-Some of the Kazon sects
And made friends with
-The Ocampa
-The Octanti
And when it comes to the enemies from the Delta Quadrant
-We slapped around the Borg Collective
-We slapped around the Voth
-We slapped around the Undine
-We slapped around the Vaadwaur Supremecy
-We slapped around other minor threats like the APUs, Hirogen, Kazon Collective, and Malon
After the Tzenkethi, the only real enemy left for us to fight is The Dominion, unless Cryptic goes all crazy and pulls out the Hur'q, or the T'kon, as major badguys.
Well, the Delta Quadrant is still a big unknown (although the same could really be said about much of the AQ & BQ.
And where the Delta Quadrant is concerned, there are one or two races that were mentioned but not seen. The Krowtonan Guard for example - although being territorial any story involving them would really require on either them deciding to expand or us finding ourselves in their territory.
And don't forget, there could still be many villains in a galaxy far, far away, waiting for their turn.
These fellows for example. Their battle cries are heart-piercing and will make even Klingons freeze in fear *shudder*
tribbles that evolved arms and legs.... much glory to be earned in the next great hunt
Ah, good. A new enemy, without all the time-travel BS, and aggressive enough that all the crying from the diplomacy and science crowds will properly fall on the deaf ears of a cold, uncaring military.
Feel free to go back to your classrooms.
My captains and their crews will be relieved. Wandering Federation space in perpetual listless boredom with no war to guide them was already making some lose their edge. Happily, we can once again embrace the contest of survival! May the best win!
But the real question is, after the Tzenkethi, who do we REALLY have left to fight in the contest of survival?
At this point in the game's story, we have the Alpha Quadrant Alliance consisting of
-The United Federation of Planets
-The Klingon Empire
-The Romulan Republic
-The Cardassian Union
-The Ferengi Alliance
-The Gorn Hegemony
-The Ferasans(Aka the Kzinti Patriarchy)
-The Reman Resistance
-Other races such as the Orions, Nausicaans, Letheans, and Deferi
And while not part of the AQA, the AQA is on good terms with both
-The First Federation
-The Metron Consortium
And when it comes to the enemies we had in the region
-We slapped around the Klingon Empire troublemakers like B'vat, and the House of Torg
-We slapped around the Devidians
-We slapped around the Fek'Ihri Horde
-We slapped around the Orion Syndicate
-We slapped around the Romulan Star Empire
-We slapped around the Tal Shiar
-We slapped around the True Way Alliance
-We slapped around the New Link
-We slapped around the Breen Confederacy
-We slapped around the Tholian Assembly
-We slapped around, and GOT slapped around, the Iconians, and their servitor races such as the Elachi, Solanae, Bluegill, and Heralds
-We slapped around the Template Liberation Front consisting of the Krenim, Na'Kuhl, Sphere Builders, Vorgons, and Mirror Leeta
-We are about to slap around the Tzenkethi
Who do we have left to fight really? The primitive Talarians? The Sheliak who are so far away as to be unmappable?
Not even the Delta Quadrant holds anything for us at this point, as we helped formed the Delta Alliance consisting of
-The Benthan Guard
-The Borg Cooperative
-The Hazari
-The Hierarchy
-The Kobali
-The Krenim
-The Talaxians
-The Turei
-Some of the Kazon sects
And made friends with
-The Ocampa
-The Octanti
And when it comes to the enemies from the Delta Quadrant
-We slapped around the Borg Collective
-We slapped around the Voth
-We slapped around the Undine
-We slapped around the Vaadwaur Supremecy
-We slapped around other minor threats like the APUs, Hirogen, Kazon Collective, and Malon
After the Tzenkethi, the only real enemy left for us to fight is The Dominion, unless Cryptic goes all crazy and pulls out the Hur'q, or the T'kon, as major badguys.
Well, the Delta Quadrant is still a big unknown (although the same could really be said about much of the AQ & BQ.
And where the Delta Quadrant is concerned, there are one or two races that were mentioned but not seen. The Krowtonan Guard for example - although being territorial any story involving them would really require on either them deciding to expand or us finding ourselves in their territory.
And don't forget, there could still be many villains in a galaxy far, far away, waiting for their turn.
These fellows for example. Their battle cries are heart-piercing and will make even Klingons freeze in fear *shudder*
Not just their battle cries. Their normal speech is unbearable as well. I heard that a Joined Trill watched a docudrama about an alien holiday called Life Day featuring those people. 20 minutes in and the symbiont tried to leave its host and open an airlock.
Comments
Yup, that's the problem - once we had the Anti-Vaudwaur and Anti-Iconian alliances, convincing people to take out the Borg together shouldn't be hard.
I, personally, did not like the Destiny novels and the Borg were chumps on Voyager, but I do agree that the Borg need a final big we are not the borg, so resistance is not very futile, in fact you can keep your biological and technological distinctiveness.
A villain may be overwhelmingly powerful when first introduced, but simply can't remain overwhelming for long because eventually they'd have to win and the show would be over. Thus a recurring villain will inevitably come to an equilibrium where they remain powerful enough to put up evil plans but the good guys will always win at the end.
Or... the Borg could have stayed the way they were when we first encountered them: massively superior. See, the thing is, a truly superior species (several orders of magnitude superior) wouldn't defeat us, as they're simply not interested in us. Q only transported us to the Borg to show us we're not ready for what's out there. Picard got a slice taken out of his hull, like it was a pizza, and then he high-tailed it out of there. That was the lesson.
But no, the Borg (definitely not Swedish) had to be made on par with us. I say the Borg, like the Iconians, should have stayed vastly superior to us. Like the Reaper said in Mass Effect: "There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even fathom it." And that would have been awesome.
1. Repeatedly encountered
2. Massively superior
3. Always defeated
You can only pick two. The reapers lost in the end. And if any show up in future installments of the series, they will have reached the equilibrium, too.
You assume we need to be able to confront the Borg directly. Borg shouldn't be interested in us. Remember how they rushed right past Voyager, on to the Undine, and completely ignored Janeway and a crew? That's how it should be: we're just a speck on the radar. So, Borg vs. the Undine, now *that* was realistic. Yet, remember The Battle of Wolf 359? A single Cube destroyed all but one of Starfleet ships, with a death toll of over 11,000. Among the vessels destroyed were the U.S.S. Ahwahnee, U.S.S. Melbourne, U.S.S. Yamaguchi, and the U.S.S. Saratoga (wiki). That is how the Borg should be! Ultimately, that 1 Cube was defeated, but at an incredible toll. A few episodes later, we're going toe to toe with the Borg in a single Science vessel. That just wasn't right.
The Reapers lost because, like you, the writers of Mass Effect went with the forced 'hero-villain power equilibrium' paradigm. But, realistically, the Reapers should have won, easily.
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with equilibrium amongst mutual enemies. In fact, enemies are usually in that precise category (because enemies an order of magnitude bigger than you aren't interested in you; and, conversely, you're not interested in the small fish below you). What I *do* have a problem with, though, is that sheer godlike races, millions of years ahead of us, like the Iconians, for instance, suddenly are drastically 'emasculated', so as to now miraculously fight on our level (or we're on theirs, rather).
Good points.
You'd prefer the Star Trek writers had picked 2 and 3 and ended up with a massively superior enemy that was only ever encountered once and stopped by a fluke or Q finger-snap, instead of picking 1 and 3 and getting a recurring enemy that gets regularly defeated. That does not change the fact they could still pick only two claims at a time.
But that would not have made a good story, good gameplay, or a good opportunity to make sequels.
And, a good story couldn't possibly have the reapers win, not just because they were the bad guys, but because that would be the obvious outcome. Because the obvious is boring.
Actually the Reapers were winning.... hands down. Even with 100% galactic readiness, the Turians and Asari had to abandon defense of their Homeworld, Hackett flat out states everything he's doing is just a delaying action, and even with the massed armada of the civilized galaxy, the Reapers just butcher it. The only reason you win that fight is because the AI in charge of the Reapers needs you too.
Hell Shepard is so fubar'd at that point you wouldn't even get up to the level where you "win" if that AI hadn't brought you to him.
And *I* assert that equilibrium is boring.
P.S. And yes, indeed, as others pointed out, the Reapers were winning, as they should, because they're vastly superior. Our 'win' achieved here, thru the whole 'Star Child' thingy, I thought that was a bit lame; but I guess that's a topic for another forum.
I mean the technomancers use shadow tech, with a UI designed to work with "primitive" species
The Vorlons left, entirely on their own accord. There's nothing Sheridan could have done to force them.
'On their own accord' implies they would have left anyway... and clearly they wouldn't have. He essentially shamed them out of the galaxy
Feel free to go back to your classrooms.
My captains and their crews will be relieved. Wandering Federation space in perpetual listless boredom with no war to guide them was already making some lose their edge. Happily, we can once again embrace the contest of survival! May the best win!
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
And don't forget, there could still be many villains in a galaxy far, far away, waiting for their turn.
These fellows for example. Their battle cries are heart-piercing and will make even Klingons freeze in fear *shudder*
We did that twice with Mirror Leeta when the Terran Empire/Mirror Universe made a push. I'm kinda thinking she's enjoying that a bit to much. Those Mirror Universe people can be.... feisty at times.
tribbles that evolved arms and legs.... much glory to be earned in the next great hunt