We did that twice with Mirror Leeta when the Terran Empire/Mirror Universe made a push. I'm kinda thinking she's enjoying that a bit to much. Those Mirror Universe people can be.... feisty at times.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Did we ever get any closure with the Voth? I thought the Undine showed up in sexier ships so we totally forgot about the Voth. I assumed there is currently a never-ending war in the Solanae Dyson Sphere over Omega Particles. If the Borg are "totally for reals dead now", then I would assume that would free up lots of Voth ships and personnel to put into invading the Solanae Dyson Sphere.
Not sure the Breen got any better resolution. Thot Trel seemed more like a "warlord of the week" rather than "oh noes! here comes the Breen!". Thanks to the Winter Event, they already have lots of potent T6 ships. I'm sure the Breen are just waiting for an opportunity to strike. Maybe they have something in the works with the Dominion.
Well, the Delta Quadrant is still a big unknown (although the same could really be said about much of the AQ & BQ.
And where the Delta Quadrant is concerned, there are one or two races that were mentioned but not seen. The Krowtonan Guard for example - although being territorial any story involving them would really require on either them deciding to expand or us finding ourselves in their territory.
Not really.
At this point in time the Delta Quadrant map covers half the explored Delta Quadrant, and the Alpha/Beta Quad map(the expanded one on tribble) covers the area of space where about 90%-95% of all the known systems in the Alpha/Beta Quadrant are.
And when it comes to the Delta Quadrant, we saw most every major power in the Delta Quadrant except the Vidiians. And what few we didn't see, like the B'omar were explicitly stated to have been destroyed by the Vaadwaur.
"Explored". "Known".
The Milky Way Galaxy, while not all that large as barred-spiral galaxies go, is somewhere between 100,000 and 150,000 light-years in diameter. Best guess for maximum thickness at the core axis is about 16,000 light-years; we're about two-thirds of the way to the rim, and it's about 3000 light-years thick around here.
I don't have the formulae for volume handy at the moment, but trust me, that's a lot more space than can be explored in a mere three or four centuries, even with FTL. (Keep in mind also that our best estimate for the number of stars involved is somewhere in the neighborhood of one hundred million - and Star Trek assumes that most of them have planets, and that quite a lot of the planets are inhabited.) The only part of the Delta Quad we saw on VOY was the corridor of space the ship went through in a desperate effort to get home; they weren't exactly on a survey mission, you know. Even in-game, we're only looking at a narrow slice of one-fourth of an entire galaxy - anything could be out there just beyond the metaphorical firelight. Heck, there's massive amounts of the Alpha and Beta Quads we just assume we know anything about. And Gamma? We've barely scratched the surface there.
I just don't think most folks have any appreciation for just exactly how big a galaxy is - they see some ink splashed across a galactic map, and think that's an area that could have been realistically even mapped, much less explored.
Cryptic isn't going to go on for seasons just making up 100% brand new alien species for us to fight. That would have nothing to do with Trek in the slightest.
It wouldn't? You mean the Klingons, Romulans, and Eminarians weren't made up virtually on the spot by the scriptwriters? The Squire of Gothos was foreshadowed? The Borg didn't just pop up one day on TNG?
Dude, Star Trek has always been about "jut making up 100% brand new alien species", and as often as not they were indeed just there to be fought. (At least, I don't remember a lot of calm debates with the Ekosians in "Patterns of Force", or the Koms in "Omega Glory", or the Magna Romans in "Bread and Circuses", or...)
And just because your view of how much of the galaxy remains to be explored in the 25th century is limited by what you saw on TNG and VOY doesn't mean that anyone trying to expand your horizons is "showing off" - just demonstrating the limitations of your vision.
Did we ever get any closure with the Voth? I thought the Undine showed up in sexier ships so we totally forgot about the Voth. I assumed there is currently a never-ending war in the Solanae Dyson Sphere over Omega Particles. If the Borg are "totally for reals dead now", then I would assume that would free up lots of Voth ships and personnel to put into invading the Solanae Dyson Sphere.
Not sure the Breen got any better resolution. Thot Trel seemed more like a "warlord of the week" rather than "oh noes! here comes the Breen!". Thanks to the Winter Event, they already have lots of potent T6 ships. I'm sure the Breen are just waiting for an opportunity to strike. Maybe they have something in the works with the Dominion.
STO is a game, and, as a game, only the newest maps/zones/missions ever represent the actual current state of the galaxy.
-We entered the Dyson Sphere
-Met the Voth
-Fought them in the contested area
-Drove them out of the Omega Particle generator city
-Then the Undine showed up, and destroyed their forces
-The Voth made one last push to try to take the sphere, after we drove out the Undine, which also failed
-We reached the Delta Quadrant
-We find out they are getting their asses kicked by the Vaadwaur as well as the Borg and Undine, to the point they literally can't even do anything, not even protect the Turei like they said they would
-We form the Delta Alliance and kick the Vaadwaur's bums
-The Voth stay in their corner knowing that they took way too many looses to be able to pose an actual threat to the Delta Alliance
-The End
The Voth have been kicked out of the Dyson Sphere for good for awhile now.
Or, the voth were laughing into their metaphorical beards all the while we beat the vaadwaur and the iconians for them, and are ready to launch their main invasion force at any time.
Did we ever get any closure with the Voth? I thought the Undine showed up in sexier ships so we totally forgot about the Voth. I assumed there is currently a never-ending war in the Solanae Dyson Sphere over Omega Particles. If the Borg are "totally for reals dead now", then I would assume that would free up lots of Voth ships and personnel to put into invading the Solanae Dyson Sphere.
Not sure the Breen got any better resolution. Thot Trel seemed more like a "warlord of the week" rather than "oh noes! here comes the Breen!". Thanks to the Winter Event, they already have lots of potent T6 ships. I'm sure the Breen are just waiting for an opportunity to strike. Maybe they have something in the works with the Dominion.
STO is a game, and, as a game, only the newest maps/zones/missions ever represent the actual current state of the galaxy.
-We entered the Dyson Sphere
-Met the Voth
-Fought them in the contested area
-Drove them out of the Omega Particle generator city
-Then the Undine showed up, and destroyed their forces
-The Voth made one last push to try to take the sphere, after we drove out the Undine, which also failed
-We reached the Delta Quadrant
-We find out they are getting their asses kicked by the Vaadwaur as well as the Borg and Undine, to the point they literally can't even do anything, not even protect the Turei like they said they would
-We form the Delta Alliance and kick the Vaadwaur's bums
-The Voth stay in their corner knowing that they took way too many looses to be able to pose an actual threat to the Delta Alliance
-The End
The Voth have been kicked out of the Dyson Sphere for good for awhile now.
Or, the voth were laughing into their metaphorical beards all the while we beat the vaadwaur and the iconians for them, and are ready to launch their main invasion force at any time.
Depending on what the devs want them to be.
This in a nutshell. Most of our enemies have as many ships and personnel on hand as the story requires. We never diminished the Voth's ability to make ships or wage war. Why they did not come to the defense of the Turei is a mystery. It could be they just wrote the Turei off.
I'm not convinced we have seen the last of the Borg either. As a popular and recognizable villain, I'm sure there are yet more ways to monetize the Borg.
Why they did not come to the defense of the Turei is a mystery.
No it isn't.
They didn't come to the defense of the Turei because the Vaadwaur were so powerful that the Voth could do nothing against them.
The Voth were having problems with the Borg, and the Vaadwaur were so powerful they could destory entire Borg fleets without losing a single ship.
The Voth were beyond outgunned.
And yet, after having their first fleet obliterated they sent a second fleet to save your butt in "Revelations".
They had no problem sending stupid numbers of Voth to their deaths during the invasion of the Dyson Sphere. Why they suddenly got cold feet in this instance is a mystery. I guess they prefer to get murdered by the Alliance.
It wouldn't? You mean the Klingons, Romulans, and Eminarians weren't made up virtually on the spot by the scriptwriters? The Squire of Gothos was foreshadowed? The Borg didn't just pop up one day on TNG?
Dude, Star Trek has always been about "jut making up 100% brand new alien species", and as often as not they were indeed just there to be fought. (At least, I don't remember a lot of calm debates with the Ekosians in "Patterns of Force", or the Koms in "Omega Glory", or the Magna Romans in "Bread and Circuses", or...)
And just because your view of how much of the galaxy remains to be explored in the 25th century is limited by what you saw on TNG and VOY doesn't mean that anyone trying to expand your horizons is "showing off" - just demonstrating the limitations of your vision.
False equivalence fallacy.
The game is not the TV show, and the TV show/movies, a primary source, is not bound to the same rules as a derived source like a game is.
If you have nothing honest to add, please stop derailing the thread by trying to show off how much you think you know.
So you are saying that it is completely impossible for them to create a new species and add it as something that threatens us just because it was not in any shows? I mean, it makes sense as the next step. They are already using the Tzenkethi, which were only mentioned in 2 episodes of DS9 and never showed on screen. So they already are taking something that wasn't really in the shows. The next logical step, once all things from the shows have been used is to start going to things mentioned in the shows. After that, they really only have 3 options.
1) Start recycling stuff. Old enemies come back again. This could work I guess, but it's not very fun.
2) Create new threats from other unexplored areas. This seems likely, as it not only gives us more variety of enemies, but more places to go and things to do.
3) Stop creating new content and just let the game die. Not very likely at all.
So, I am fairly new to Trek and the game. I watched TNG with my Dad as a kid, but just recently decided to watch them all, then all DS9 and am now in VOY. So maybe others can help answer a few questions for me.
What other races were mentioned, but never shown, that we could see next?
What about after that. What do you think will be next, if not something new?
But however we decide on whether a single enemy like the Voth can be useful as a recurring enemy, if we keep closing story arcs with a victory or (as with the Undine and the Iconians & Friends club) with a decided "let's leave each other alone", the day will come when STO runs out of adversaries to draw from canon. Thus the problem cannot be solved finally, and assuming STO stays around long enough, sooner or later one of three things has to happen: make a whole new enemy yourself, revisit old ones, or leave the idea of "major" threats and let players do minor policing.
With the old ones, the problem would be that many players would not see them as a credible enemy anymore. You'd need to build up why they have regrown strength within the universe (or decided to reopen hostilities) which only works for a limited time. And it would stretch my belief that, say, the Tal Shiar will be able to regroup in the next couple of years. Sure, they may terrorize some minor border worlds, just as Saruman terrorized the Shire, but they'd be even less credible.
With completely new ones, many players may not care about them, since they're not canon. Though given the reinterpretation (at least in my eyes) of canon by quite a few in some threads, not everybody may care. And the Lukari have been greeted with surprisingly open arms so far, at least on the forums. Maybe this could really work. Also, you can use one off mentions of the show, which would be making a race/species/nation up out of whole cloth except for the name, and I don't see many after the Tzenkethi which would give really much more than the name. Also consider how the fact that the Tzenkethi, as portrayed in STO, already made some people complain that they don't fit their headcanon.
Finally, there's the minor police work. We did some of that on Nimbus (though embedded in shipment deals with a then major enemy), we hopefully do stuff like that even more with some of the nuisances we encountered (I am thinking of certain Ferengi here), but will it cover a whole arc of twelve missions to catch a smuggler? And will it satisfy players who are used to fight for "survival for the galaxy" for a few years?
Guess it's "damned if they do, damned if they don't" and either way, we will get more threads complaining about how the story stopped being good.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
"The Terran Emperor himself is stated to possess bizarre god-like powers which have made him near unbeatable, and is why Mirror Leeta is trying to use the data she got from New Khitomer in the future to build allies to overthrow him."
Here's your new baddie latter on down the road. The mirror version of either Charlie-X or Garry Mitchell who may have extended their life with god like powers.
"The Terran Emperor himself is stated to possess bizarre god-like powers which have made him near unbeatable, and is why Mirror Leeta is trying to use the data she got from New Khitomer in the future to build allies to overthrow him."
Here's your new baddie latter on down the road. The mirror version of either Charlie-X or Garry Mitchell who may have extended their life with god like powers.
I think it's Wesley Crusher.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
They could also have the remnants of the bad guys band together a la Typhon Pact, resulting in fighting groups of combined enemies.
For example, there could be groups that have a Bulwark protecting itself from your attacks while a D'deridex traps you with a tractor beam and Baltims go to ruin your hull while you can't move.
"The Terran Emperor himself is stated to possess bizarre god-like powers which have made him near unbeatable, and is why Mirror Leeta is trying to use the data she got from New Khitomer in the future to build allies to overthrow him."
Here's your new baddie latter on down the road. The mirror version of either Charlie-X or Garry Mitchell who may have extended their life with god like powers.
What about after that. What do you think will be next, if not something new?
Well, some options I can think of
-The Dominion is an obvious big bad possibility, being the largest known galactic power besides the Borg, who basically dominate all of the known Gamma Quadrant.
-There is the Hur'q, a mysterious race from the Gamma Quadrant that attacked the Klingons 1,000 years ago, and stole the Sword of Kahless. They disappeared sometime after, and are presumed to be extinct. But the Fek'Ihri arc in the early Klingon missions suggests they are behind the return of the Fek'Ihri.
-There is The Mirror Universe, and by that I mean besides Mirror Leeta. We know from the story blogs that while Leeta has the strongest single fleet in the Terran Empire, the combined forces of the Terran Emperor are greater then hers. The Terran Emperor himself is stated to possess bizarre god-like powers which have made him near unbeatable, and is why Mirror Leeta is trying to use the data she got from New Khitomer in the future to build allies to overthrow him.
-There are the Augments. Before the "Featured Series" development plan was cancelled, Cryptic had plans to do a featured series mission arc involving the "Children of Khan" augment group. This was even foreshadowed in the "2800" featured series. During the "Facility 4028" mission, one can find the cell of James Fadi Mehra, aka Princep Khan, leader of the Children of Khan augment group. During the commotion during the mission, he ends up escaping, and is noted by the mission giver to be one of two criminals they will have trouble recapturing. The other being Taris. Given that we got an ending to the Taris storyline some time later, its not beyond the realm of possibility for Cryptic to revisit this story arc. Especially given that WW3/The Eugenics Wars, got mentioned quite a bit in the story logs, missions, and reputation logs, in the past arc.
-And OFC there are the leftover plot hooks involving Sela's redemption, T'ket's rampage, and Mirror Leeta, her attempts to overthrow the Mirror Emperor, and her connection to the mysterious Pah-Wraiths.
Gecko said in the past they had rough ideas all the way out to expansion 5, which, given how long it takes for expansions to come out, wont be here until late 2019, or early 2020ish, and I doubt the game would last much longer then that.
All of the above + a few smaller things, could easily take them that far without having to make up some totally new badguy never before mentioned in Trek lore, and with minimal revisiting of an already defeated enemy.
Ok, so there is plenty to do still before making up new races, but I really have issue with the thought the game may end in 2019 or 2020. Normally, MMOs just don't do that, unless they were a complete failure from the start. Just look at Ultima Online, been going for 20 years and still gets new content added fairly regularly. Sure, it has slowed down, but it still gets new areas added and new enemies. It doesn't have a big name IP like Star Trek behind it either. Everquest still gets expansions every year and it's been running for nearly 18 years. These games just don't die like that.
I just love nitwits that feel an IP all about "strange new worlds" and "seeking out new life and new civilizations" feel that just because this is not a TV show its forever barred from doing anything but retracing every dangling plot hook from 50yrs of TV shows.... Its comical, in a 'you're a very sad and pathetic person' kinda way
Comments
Closer to home there is also the http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Fen_Domar
Not sure the Breen got any better resolution. Thot Trel seemed more like a "warlord of the week" rather than "oh noes! here comes the Breen!". Thanks to the Winter Event, they already have lots of potent T6 ships. I'm sure the Breen are just waiting for an opportunity to strike. Maybe they have something in the works with the Dominion.
People have asked that every step of the way since the Iconian War.
The answer remains: Anyone Cryptic wants us to fight.
The Milky Way Galaxy, while not all that large as barred-spiral galaxies go, is somewhere between 100,000 and 150,000 light-years in diameter. Best guess for maximum thickness at the core axis is about 16,000 light-years; we're about two-thirds of the way to the rim, and it's about 3000 light-years thick around here.
I don't have the formulae for volume handy at the moment, but trust me, that's a lot more space than can be explored in a mere three or four centuries, even with FTL. (Keep in mind also that our best estimate for the number of stars involved is somewhere in the neighborhood of one hundred million - and Star Trek assumes that most of them have planets, and that quite a lot of the planets are inhabited.) The only part of the Delta Quad we saw on VOY was the corridor of space the ship went through in a desperate effort to get home; they weren't exactly on a survey mission, you know. Even in-game, we're only looking at a narrow slice of one-fourth of an entire galaxy - anything could be out there just beyond the metaphorical firelight. Heck, there's massive amounts of the Alpha and Beta Quads we just assume we know anything about. And Gamma? We've barely scratched the surface there.
I just don't think most folks have any appreciation for just exactly how big a galaxy is - they see some ink splashed across a galactic map, and think that's an area that could have been realistically even mapped, much less explored.
Dude, Star Trek has always been about "jut making up 100% brand new alien species", and as often as not they were indeed just there to be fought. (At least, I don't remember a lot of calm debates with the Ekosians in "Patterns of Force", or the Koms in "Omega Glory", or the Magna Romans in "Bread and Circuses", or...)
And just because your view of how much of the galaxy remains to be explored in the 25th century is limited by what you saw on TNG and VOY doesn't mean that anyone trying to expand your horizons is "showing off" - just demonstrating the limitations of your vision.
Depending on what the devs want them to be.
However, I can think of another 'Rhino'...
Easy.
Human sub-species/varients.
After all, every family line is heading towards a new creature. It's just a question of when and how long away.
I'm not convinced we have seen the last of the Borg either. As a popular and recognizable villain, I'm sure there are yet more ways to monetize the Borg.
They had no problem sending stupid numbers of Voth to their deaths during the invasion of the Dyson Sphere. Why they suddenly got cold feet in this instance is a mystery. I guess they prefer to get murdered by the Alliance.
We can destroy entire vaadwaur fleets with a single ship, too. Not that they're actually any more powerful than everyone else.
Of course they were outgunned. Everyone is.
So you are saying that it is completely impossible for them to create a new species and add it as something that threatens us just because it was not in any shows? I mean, it makes sense as the next step. They are already using the Tzenkethi, which were only mentioned in 2 episodes of DS9 and never showed on screen. So they already are taking something that wasn't really in the shows. The next logical step, once all things from the shows have been used is to start going to things mentioned in the shows. After that, they really only have 3 options.
1) Start recycling stuff. Old enemies come back again. This could work I guess, but it's not very fun.
2) Create new threats from other unexplored areas. This seems likely, as it not only gives us more variety of enemies, but more places to go and things to do.
3) Stop creating new content and just let the game die. Not very likely at all.
So, I am fairly new to Trek and the game. I watched TNG with my Dad as a kid, but just recently decided to watch them all, then all DS9 and am now in VOY. So maybe others can help answer a few questions for me.
What other races were mentioned, but never shown, that we could see next?
What about after that. What do you think will be next, if not something new?
Is there a 4th option I am not thinking of?
But however we decide on whether a single enemy like the Voth can be useful as a recurring enemy, if we keep closing story arcs with a victory or (as with the Undine and the Iconians & Friends club) with a decided "let's leave each other alone", the day will come when STO runs out of adversaries to draw from canon. Thus the problem cannot be solved finally, and assuming STO stays around long enough, sooner or later one of three things has to happen: make a whole new enemy yourself, revisit old ones, or leave the idea of "major" threats and let players do minor policing.
With the old ones, the problem would be that many players would not see them as a credible enemy anymore. You'd need to build up why they have regrown strength within the universe (or decided to reopen hostilities) which only works for a limited time. And it would stretch my belief that, say, the Tal Shiar will be able to regroup in the next couple of years. Sure, they may terrorize some minor border worlds, just as Saruman terrorized the Shire, but they'd be even less credible.
With completely new ones, many players may not care about them, since they're not canon. Though given the reinterpretation (at least in my eyes) of canon by quite a few in some threads, not everybody may care. And the Lukari have been greeted with surprisingly open arms so far, at least on the forums. Maybe this could really work. Also, you can use one off mentions of the show, which would be making a race/species/nation up out of whole cloth except for the name, and I don't see many after the Tzenkethi which would give really much more than the name. Also consider how the fact that the Tzenkethi, as portrayed in STO, already made some people complain that they don't fit their headcanon.
Finally, there's the minor police work. We did some of that on Nimbus (though embedded in shipment deals with a then major enemy), we hopefully do stuff like that even more with some of the nuisances we encountered (I am thinking of certain Ferengi here), but will it cover a whole arc of twelve missions to catch a smuggler? And will it satisfy players who are used to fight for "survival for the galaxy" for a few years?
Guess it's "damned if they do, damned if they don't" and either way, we will get more threads complaining about how the story stopped being good.
Here's your new baddie latter on down the road. The mirror version of either Charlie-X or Garry Mitchell who may have extended their life with god like powers.
For example, there could be groups that have a Bulwark protecting itself from your attacks while a D'deridex traps you with a tractor beam and Baltims go to ruin your hull while you can't move.
I bet it's Empress Hoshi.
Ok, so there is plenty to do still before making up new races, but I really have issue with the thought the game may end in 2019 or 2020. Normally, MMOs just don't do that, unless they were a complete failure from the start. Just look at Ultima Online, been going for 20 years and still gets new content added fairly regularly. Sure, it has slowed down, but it still gets new areas added and new enemies. It doesn't have a big name IP like Star Trek behind it either. Everquest still gets expansions every year and it's been running for nearly 18 years. These games just don't die like that.