Whining about losing ships and gear in Eve is like whining about losing credits and [Critical Repair] components in STO or repair costs for dungeon/raid wipes in games like WoW.
Except that last I checked, EC and Critical Repair components don't cost actual real-world cash money...
Repair components don't cost anything. They randomly drop.
In my 4 years playing this game I have never died often enough to need to buy one.
Whining about losing ships and gear in Eve is like whining about losing credits and [Critical Repair] components in STO or repair costs for dungeon/raid wipes in games like WoW.
Except that last I checked, EC and Critical Repair components don't cost actual real-world cash money...
Repair components don't cost anything. They randomly drop.
In my 4 years playing this game I have never died often enough to need to buy one.
I got caught, once, without a critical repair component. It caught me by surprise. Then I realized I had sold a bunch of stuff out of my inventory to clear space the day before.
So yeah, due to user error, I at one time had to go alllllll the way back to a space station and get an NPC to repair my jawn.
Whining about losing ships and gear in Eve is like whining about losing credits and [Critical Repair] components in STO or repair costs for dungeon/raid wipes in games like WoW.
Except that last I checked, EC and Critical Repair components don't cost actual real-world cash money...
Repair components don't cost anything. They randomly drop.
In my 4 years playing this game I have never died often enough to need to buy one.
Point is, in EvE those ships (above the most basic level) do cost money. That 9000-ship EvE furball a while back had costs running into the tens of thousands of U.S. dollars.
Umm... I would just like to point out. At no point is there a real money cost for any ship in eve... all ships are player made and traded among players via the Marketplace or Contract systems. Only an extrapolated cash cost, based on current Plex values in the Marketplace.
And that daily average online only shows the maximum number of players online at the same time for that day not the total number of players that logged in for that day nor the average number of players online at the same time.
An average is an average - nothing more, nothing less.
I.e. it is average calculated on the basis of the number of logged in players at any (or a number of) given moments throughout the day.
Important - do not confuse an AVERAGE online with a PEAK online. The maximum number of players logged in at the given day is a PEAK (not average) online.
I thought it was obvious due to the person you were responding to was using Steam statistics, but I was specifically talking about Steam Charts. There is no daily average online for Steam Charts only an average for the entire month, but some people might think that what is listed for a specific day is the average and not the peak.
Only the current month gives detailed information about the amount of people on for a specific time. So I can figure out that August 7 at 14:00 had the maximum amount of people for the month of August, but there is no way to know at what time July 5 had the maximum amount of players. Everything before August 2 is completely smoothed out where you can only see the peak number of players for a specific day. For July 5th, all you can see is 4,557 with July 6 having 4,157 and July 7 having 3,785. These are not the average number of people online for that day, but the peak.
Whining about losing ships and gear in Eve is like whining about losing credits and [Critical Repair] components in STO or repair costs for dungeon/raid wipes in games like WoW.
Except that last I checked, EC and Critical Repair components don't cost actual real-world cash money...
When people turn IRL money into in game currency they do so expecting that in game currency to get used up dont they? I just included an STO example in there for reference since this *is* an STO forum but TBH STO has a crappy currency faucet/drain system. But anyways, like i mentioned in my other post (in the part that you snipped out) treat ships and gear as currency to be used up. If you play like an idiot then that currency (your ships and gear) will get used up a lot faster if you play smart then it will last you longer. In WoW if you do dungeons and raids and you repeatedly throw yourself at bosses hoping to get lucky you will have bigger repair bills. But if you analyze bosses, their abilities and come up with good strats then your repair bills should be a lot lower.
Also...technically speaking you *can* turn money into zen into credits through the lockbox system.
Point is, in EvE those ships (above the most basic level) do cost money. That 9000-ship EvE furball a while back had costs running into the tens of thousands of U.S. dollars.
It's kind of a misconception since that's usually made up of several players with ships of various degrees of expense.
Secondly, the corps that fight each other on a regular basis, tend to have access to large amounts of in game resources rather than simply opening their wallets. Many of the larger alliances have ship replacement programs, and or provide you with ships. So the average Joe doesn't actually spend money on the fight at all.
Second misconception is that it's not truly F2P, it's severely limited in what you can do like the trial is. So it's really just infinite trial mode and they are only doing this because of declining subscriptions and active players due to the changes brought about in the last two years or so.
Whining about losing ships and gear in Eve is like whining about losing credits and [Critical Repair] components in STO or repair costs for dungeon/raid wipes in games like WoW.
Except that last I checked, EC and Critical Repair components don't cost actual real-world cash money...
Repair components don't cost anything. They randomly drop.
In my 4 years playing this game I have never died often enough to need to buy one.
Point is, in EvE those ships (above the most basic level) do cost money. That 9000-ship EvE furball a while back had costs running into the tens of thousands of U.S. dollars.
You know all those news sites that say stuff like "EVE player loses 6000 dollar ship" and then you see people who have never played EVE saying stuff like "gomg how can anyone spend 6000 dollars on a game". See what these news articles dont talk about is equivalent costs. By that i mean if 15 dollars buys you one PLEX and at current rates in game one PLEX is worth 500 million credits then $15 = 500m ISK. So a ship+gear worth 2 billion ISK has the equivalent cost of 60 dollars. It doesn't necessarily mean that someone spent 60 dollars to buy that ship...they could have earned all of that money the old fashioned way by just playing the game. Or maybe they earned 1.5bil ISK and bought the remaining 500 mil ISK with real money or maybe they *did* buy the whole thing with real money. But like I said a lot of news sites that cover EVE ship losses dont go over equivalent costs. This can be done in any game where IRL money can be converted directly or indirectly into in game currency STO included.
if EVE had STO's space controls, I'd never be playing another MMO.
I love everything about EVE, except the actual act of playing it. the controls and combat style turns me off, I don't find it fun.
incidentally, my forum avatar here, is the ingame portrait of one of my Characters from the last time I tried to get into EVE.[/quote] ______________
You do know that you can fly by "wasd" cobtrols now... yes? It doesn't feel very responsive, especially in something small and agile, like a frig... but it is doable.
if EVE had STO's space controls, I'd never be playing another MMO.
I love everything about EVE, except the actual act of playing it. the controls and combat style turns me off, I don't find it fun.
incidentally, my forum avatar here, is the ingame portrait of one of my Characters from the last time I tried to get into EVE.
______________
You do know that you can fly by "wasd" cobtrols now... yes?
It doesn't feel very responsive, especially in something small and agile, like a frig... but it is doable.
did not know this, i haven't tried EVE in a while.
I think EvE's great contribution to gaming was to show that Lord of the Flies was painfully insightful...
EvE has way more sodomy. My brother played it for three years, did nothing but rave about it. He stopped about two years ago. When I mention how is he doing in the game, he says nothing, and gets a haunted look on his face.
Killed my desire to try and play it.
I should advise my brother to seek help.
Hell I've known a few guys who hardcore played Eve. They said it was like having a second job almost with all the resource tracking and stuff to get that next ship they wanted. What takes what 3 months of full on DIL grinding or so to get a top tier ship, takes them a YEAR, and then to top it off they could lose their baby at any time.
For us on STO, we can grind out that ship lose it 10 seconds later and respawn with no loss of ships or equipment.
Yeah you can take that jazz in Eve and keep it. I'll keep my babies thankyou.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
The two games are just vastly different from each other. The average STO player whines rivers if the content isn't doable solo in a convenient time. The average EvE player knows very well that the game is a social experience. EvE is build on the "experiment" of having a almost completely player operated game world and aside from the most basic functions everything requires you to operate with other players which are organized in a corporate fashion. STO is designed to be a mobile game with nicer graphics you hop in for a bit and then leave again with no consequences, it's a more traditional video game.
People that really want to play the one are probably not keen on playing the other.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
To clear a few things up (I'm looking at you @snoggymack22 ) EVE is huge, compaired to STO that is. Furthermore, I do realize I might ahve overstated EVE's impact.
And yes, me too, walked in, couldn't figure out how to do anything, uninstalled and walked away. I will never go back to New Eden.
I found it the other way around Eve is tiny compared to STO. Yes Eve has more sectors but less content.
The problem with Eve is the lack of new content and gameplay. Barely anything has changed in years. They do a few balance tweaks here and there and they add a tiny bits of content, that’s all. The lack of new things to do and new content was why I stopped undocking in Eve.
Its so bad I am still using the same ship and same equipment as I did over 4 years ago. Not even got any useful skills left to train. Eve is tiny compared to STO as STO gets far more content, ships and equipment to play with and far more new things added compared to Eve. Don't get me wrong there is fun to have in Eve but it gets boring doing the same thing year in year out. At least with STO new things get added to try and keep me logging in.
Yeah i worked with a HARDCORE Eve player in once. Guy was a completely rude awkward antisocial prick. As are most of the people that play it seriously ive found. (You think the elitists that sto has are bad you havent seen anything)
Pricks or not, they know they depend on other players Show me a game where the average community isn't made up of such types - you will always have a combatative, rude, competition dependant vocal part of the community. You ahve the other end of the spectrum as well, though, in every game.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Pricks or not, they know they depend on other players Show me a game where the average community isn't made up of such types - you will always have a combatative, rude, competition dependant vocal part of the community. You ahve the other end of the spectrum as well, though, in every game.
Yes, but in civilized game like STO all you need to be rid of that part of the community is /ignore. They can't actually do anything to you.
Hell I've known a few guys who hardcore played Eve. They said it was like having a second job almost with all the resource tracking and stuff to get that next ship they wanted. What takes what 3 months of full on DIL grinding or so to get a top tier ship, takes them a YEAR, and then to top it off they could lose their baby at any time.
I cannot fathom why anyone would play such a game. Do they hide this information until you've already spent money, or something?
I'm more referencing the people who claim that STO is P2W. I agree with you: if "P2W" means "you have to pay in order to win" (and that's the definition I use), then no, neither game is P2W. However, a lot of people on these forums use "P2W' to mean "you can pay to progress faster", and if they're looking to EvE to get away from that, they're going to be sorely disappointed.
Hell I've known a few guys who hardcore played Eve. They said it was like having a second job almost with all the resource tracking and stuff to get that next ship they wanted. What takes what 3 months of full on DIL grinding or so to get a top tier ship, takes them a YEAR, and then to top it off they could lose their baby at any time.
For us on STO, we can grind out that ship lose it 10 seconds later and respawn with no loss of ships or equipment.
Yeah you can take that jazz in Eve and keep it. I'll keep my babies thankyou.
Yep. If this news has any impact on STO at all, it will be to show some of the naysayers just how good we have it here.
It is using the "freemium" model that many other games use.
You are limited to certain skill levels of gameplay. If you want to go beyond these, you must pay to play.
Now as far as your comment about "stuffs" go? this isn't the kind of game where you get attached to your gear or ships.
This is why EVE changing their business model isn't going to put any huge dent into STO (or vice versa for that matter). Because many people don't want to play that kind of game. And others do and dislike how nothing in STO may have consequences. Different games for different people. (About the lack of components: I can always get back to ESD/Klingonia and repair for free). Neither system is necessarily better, so neither side has to grow out of their habits in any way. Both can play the game they like.
Whats your source? I love when people try to make up numbers based on feelings rather than on data.
What's you source then? After all it was you who started comparing numbers here. BTW: My source would be around 50 (almost) full instances of Risa during the summer event, making up for 2500 during my playing time alone on Risa as a single moment, not as a daily sum. So my guess would be, added up during the day, it'd be way more than what you suggest. But I don't know. What I DO know though, because that's part of my job, is that "data" isn't the same as "information", meaning: taking actual real numbers doesn't convey information if you don't care about context. (Oh, and that's far removed from "making stats up" or "anything can be proven with statistics")
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Comments
Repair components don't cost anything. They randomly drop.
In my 4 years playing this game I have never died often enough to need to buy one.
I got caught, once, without a critical repair component. It caught me by surprise. Then I realized I had sold a bunch of stuff out of my inventory to clear space the day before.
So yeah, due to user error, I at one time had to go alllllll the way back to a space station and get an NPC to repair my jawn.
Madness I tell you! MADNESS!
I thought it was obvious due to the person you were responding to was using Steam statistics, but I was specifically talking about Steam Charts. There is no daily average online for Steam Charts only an average for the entire month, but some people might think that what is listed for a specific day is the average and not the peak.
Only the current month gives detailed information about the amount of people on for a specific time. So I can figure out that August 7 at 14:00 had the maximum amount of people for the month of August, but there is no way to know at what time July 5 had the maximum amount of players. Everything before August 2 is completely smoothed out where you can only see the peak number of players for a specific day. For July 5th, all you can see is 4,557 with July 6 having 4,157 and July 7 having 3,785. These are not the average number of people online for that day, but the peak.
When people turn IRL money into in game currency they do so expecting that in game currency to get used up dont they? I just included an STO example in there for reference since this *is* an STO forum but TBH STO has a crappy currency faucet/drain system. But anyways, like i mentioned in my other post (in the part that you snipped out) treat ships and gear as currency to be used up. If you play like an idiot then that currency (your ships and gear) will get used up a lot faster if you play smart then it will last you longer. In WoW if you do dungeons and raids and you repeatedly throw yourself at bosses hoping to get lucky you will have bigger repair bills. But if you analyze bosses, their abilities and come up with good strats then your repair bills should be a lot lower.
Also...technically speaking you *can* turn money into zen into credits through the lockbox system.
It's kind of a misconception since that's usually made up of several players with ships of various degrees of expense.
Secondly, the corps that fight each other on a regular basis, tend to have access to large amounts of in game resources rather than simply opening their wallets. Many of the larger alliances have ship replacement programs, and or provide you with ships. So the average Joe doesn't actually spend money on the fight at all.
Second misconception is that it's not truly F2P, it's severely limited in what you can do like the trial is. So it's really just infinite trial mode and they are only doing this because of declining subscriptions and active players due to the changes brought about in the last two years or so.
You know all those news sites that say stuff like "EVE player loses 6000 dollar ship" and then you see people who have never played EVE saying stuff like "gomg how can anyone spend 6000 dollars on a game". See what these news articles dont talk about is equivalent costs. By that i mean if 15 dollars buys you one PLEX and at current rates in game one PLEX is worth 500 million credits then $15 = 500m ISK. So a ship+gear worth 2 billion ISK has the equivalent cost of 60 dollars. It doesn't necessarily mean that someone spent 60 dollars to buy that ship...they could have earned all of that money the old fashioned way by just playing the game. Or maybe they earned 1.5bil ISK and bought the remaining 500 mil ISK with real money or maybe they *did* buy the whole thing with real money. But like I said a lot of news sites that cover EVE ship losses dont go over equivalent costs. This can be done in any game where IRL money can be converted directly or indirectly into in game currency STO included.
if EVE had STO's space controls, I'd never be playing another MMO.
I love everything about EVE, except the actual act of playing it. the controls and combat style turns me off, I don't find it fun.
incidentally, my forum avatar here, is the ingame portrait of one of my Characters from the last time I tried to get into EVE.
if EVE had STO's space controls, I'd never be playing another MMO.
I love everything about EVE, except the actual act of playing it. the controls and combat style turns me off, I don't find it fun.
incidentally, my forum avatar here, is the ingame portrait of one of my Characters from the last time I tried to get into EVE.[/quote]
______________
You do know that you can fly by "wasd" cobtrols now... yes?
It doesn't feel very responsive, especially in something small and agile, like a frig... but it is doable.
did not know this, i haven't tried EVE in a while.
EvE has way more sodomy. My brother played it for three years, did nothing but rave about it. He stopped about two years ago. When I mention how is he doing in the game, he says nothing, and gets a haunted look on his face.
Killed my desire to try and play it.
I should advise my brother to seek help.
For us on STO, we can grind out that ship lose it 10 seconds later and respawn with no loss of ships or equipment.
Yeah you can take that jazz in Eve and keep it. I'll keep my babies thankyou.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
People that really want to play the one are probably not keen on playing the other.
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The problem with Eve is the lack of new content and gameplay. Barely anything has changed in years. They do a few balance tweaks here and there and they add a tiny bits of content, that’s all. The lack of new things to do and new content was why I stopped undocking in Eve.
Its so bad I am still using the same ship and same equipment as I did over 4 years ago. Not even got any useful skills left to train. Eve is tiny compared to STO as STO gets far more content, ships and equipment to play with and far more new things added compared to Eve. Don't get me wrong there is fun to have in Eve but it gets boring doing the same thing year in year out. At least with STO new things get added to try and keep me logging in.
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Yes, but in civilized game like STO all you need to be rid of that part of the community is /ignore. They can't actually do anything to you.
Yeah, uhh, if you're looking to EvE for a relief from grind (or from P2W), you're barking up the wrong tree.
I cannot fathom why anyone would play such a game. Do they hide this information until you've already spent money, or something?
Before Skill Injectors, EvE was far less P2W than STO, arguably still is with the way the gamble boxes are going.
I'm more referencing the people who claim that STO is P2W. I agree with you: if "P2W" means "you have to pay in order to win" (and that's the definition I use), then no, neither game is P2W. However, a lot of people on these forums use "P2W' to mean "you can pay to progress faster", and if they're looking to EvE to get away from that, they're going to be sorely disappointed.
Yep. If this news has any impact on STO at all, it will be to show some of the naysayers just how good we have it here.
It is using the "freemium" model that many other games use.
You are limited to certain skill levels of gameplay. If you want to go beyond these, you must pay to play.
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/clone-states-post-announcement-follow-up/
This is why EVE changing their business model isn't going to put any huge dent into STO (or vice versa for that matter). Because many people don't want to play that kind of game. And others do and dislike how nothing in STO may have consequences. Different games for different people. (About the lack of components: I can always get back to ESD/Klingonia and repair for free). Neither system is necessarily better, so neither side has to grow out of their habits in any way. Both can play the game they like.
What's you source then? After all it was you who started comparing numbers here. BTW: My source would be around 50 (almost) full instances of Risa during the summer event, making up for 2500 during my playing time alone on Risa as a single moment, not as a daily sum. So my guess would be, added up during the day, it'd be way more than what you suggest. But I don't know. What I DO know though, because that's part of my job, is that "data" isn't the same as "information", meaning: taking actual real numbers doesn't convey information if you don't care about context. (Oh, and that's far removed from "making stats up" or "anything can be proven with statistics")