STO and No Man's Sky - Exploration Hopes and Dreams

taylor1701d · August 2016

Got about 3 hours into No Man's Sky.

All I can say is I hope STO's "Exploration" system (that is supposedly under development) is somewhat similar to what NMS has to offer.
First impression; NMS is more Star Trek then STO.

Oh and to anyone who will say, "Well go play NMS then".
Ya I will, but have no intentions of abandoning STO. Its still a great game IMO. I just hope the Devs can deliver a really nice Exploration system here.
People like to gripe and complain about the exploration clusters being removed from STO. But all things considered, they weren't very good to begin with imo. Too many of the same type of missions being reused over and over.

But people who liked it, liked it, so I wont discredit that. Even I found them somewhat entertaining from time to time...But they needed more variety, and ability to find and log our captains new discoveries.
A Discovery sharing system would be nice, where every captain can upload their discoveries to a database.

This would be amazing here in STO. And really put back the "Trek" in Star Trek Online.

Are you hopeful for the Exploration system they are working on for STO ?

nikeix · August 2016

I think we'll see Star Citizen do it as well or better having the opportunity to study NMS (and the budget of a not-at-all-small country...) and at that point STO will basically have no alternative to joining the new generation of procedural generated universes. It's a lot less costly to replicate than to pioneer. Hopefully they see enough growth with 50th anniversary push, the new series, and having finally been able to tap the KT market to be able to invest in an Exploration system that does credit to the source material.

where2r1 · August 2016

I was one that enjoyed the old exploration cluster missions. But I understand it doesn't make them money. There was never any impetus for me to upgrade anything with that old system. I didn't even need new ships or anything. But I got to play a "video game" (instead of a clicky game or borked missions, all the time).

How would No Man's Sky do that (make money) if they were free to play? In game ads? Commercially sponsored events?

Cryptic does it by selling ships, traits and other gear to players.
How would that work for exploration? More ships? More gear? Most people want to use those expensive ships they already bought and gear they already upgraded.

That is why Admiralty kinda works...it is another use for ships we already have. Even though it isn't actual video game type content, as exploration would have to be.

I think they would be better served to take time to figure out why "trolling" have taken over their public game queues. Driving almost everyone to private instances.

captkelly31 · August 2016

With any luck NMS will inspire the Dev's to come up with something, seeing as the whole Star Trek franchise needs less action, like in this recent announcement: http://trekmovie.com/2016/06/17/chris-pine-you-cant-make-cerebral-star-trek-in-2016/

Let's prove them wrong.

leemwatson · August 2016

I totally agree OP. Star Trek is and should always be about 'the journey'. I really want to play NMS after seeing the videos of it. STO took a step back when the clusters were removed. Regardless that the Genesis system was limited, they could have been the ones to have properly pre-empted NMS if they had worked on what people have been asking for, and that is the true exploration capability that NMS now offers. For the sake a few extra GB's to patch in, they could've really done a lot of good for STO and it's not like the system has to be as complex as NMS!

All STO is at the moment now, is it's an 'Arcade' game with some micro-management if you want to do it. It does have something for everyone, with the exception of exploration and going where no-one has gone before!

Unknown · August 2016

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jaguarskx · August 2016

Yeah, NMS has piqued my interest over the past 12 months or so. Kinda reminds me of an old PC game I played, Starflight, where exploration was the goal.

I will probably wait a bit before buying the game though just so that some of the potential bugs can get squashed. I like the fact that there is an offline mode so in the event I travel somewhere that has no / spotty internet, at least I can still play the game.

angrytarg · August 2016

I liked the old Exploration clusters. As fascianting as the new procedual generated games look, you have to be realistic. STO isn't built to support procedual generated content like that, the old Genesis did not provide procedually generated content. But what we had was enjoyed by a few people at least, they just should have improved what was there, more mission templates, a bit fine tuning, a recording feature and I'd still happily play those missions today.

talonxv · August 2016

Yeah I am seriously considering dropping the $$$ and going to NMS. Looks pretty awesome. And if SC ever want's to pull it's head out of it's six and start getting stuff going....

alcyoneserene · August 2016

NMS it seems will be a single player experience, unless they somehow make it work down the line. Source I have no interest in an online game not built with multiplayer interaction from the start, as I'm already sitting on a bunch of single-player games (good ones too) I never get around to playing, simply because playing with/against real players is much more fun to me than some role play against poor or predictable AI.

alethkiraen · August 2016

I'll be surprised if we get anything more than a slightly polished re-release of the old exploration cluster system.

nikeix wrote: »

I think we'll see Star Citizen do it as well or better having the opportunity to study NMS (and the budget of a not-at-all-small country...)

Ahahahahahaha - oh wait, you're serious, aren't you?

snoggymack22 · August 2016

This thread will be fun to watch and read. I've said all I could say about exploration and No Man's Sky a couple years ago (well I thought I had, but apparently those threads are now long forgotten). So here's hoping.

warpangel · August 2016

What I've seen of No Man's Sky says "GTA in space," not Star Trek. A gorgeous environment to wreak random havok in, kill random NPCs, maybe rob something then run from cops that spawn from nowhere when you get a "wanted level." But without the plot missions that actually give the GTA games something meaningful to do.

I would not want that in STO.

talonxv · August 2016

alethkiraen wrote: »

I'll be surprised if we get anything more than a slightly polished re-release of the old exploration cluster system.

nikeix wrote: »

I think we'll see Star Citizen do it as well or better having the opportunity to study NMS (and the budget of a not-at-all-small country...)

Ahahahahahaha - oh wait, you're serious, aren't you?

Yeah I had high hopes when it was the creator of freelancer and the Wing commander series, but that was 2 years ago.

kjfett · August 2016

the reviews coming in from NMS are not promising as far as I'm concerned. I canceled my reservation on it and will wait a month or so to see where it goes. From what I'm reading and seeing, it's just a really huge single player game, but lacking the stuff to keep you busy and occupied like Fallout and ES:skyrim, etc. It is certainly a pioneer and I like the overall idea and direction, but as with most 1st gen games, it's just paving a way for better stuff to come.

daveyny · August 2016

If you want it like NMS, then you'll have to wait 5 years for Cryptic to develop it.

cuchulainn74 · August 2016

kjfett wrote: »

the reviews coming in from NMS are not promising as far as I'm concerned. I canceled my reservation on it and will wait a month or so to see where it goes. From what I'm reading and seeing, it's just a really huge single player game, but lacking the stuff to keep you busy and occupied like Fallout and ES:skyrim, etc. It is certainly a pioneer and I like the overall idea and direction, but as with most 1st gen games, it's just paving a way for better stuff to come.

I haven't been too impressed with what I've been reading, either. It sounds an awful lot like it's rather "Zen" for a game. There doesn't seem to be anything to the game but the proverbial Journey. Which, given that it's all algorithmically generated, I expect would become monotonous and rather boring quickly. That's exclusively my opinion of games of the type, and anybody else is free to love the type fanatically. I'd prefer at least something more like a story arc, certainly in a single player game.

snoggymack22 · August 2016

warpangel wrote: »

What I've seen of No Man's Sky says "GTA in space," not Star Trek. A gorgeous environment to wreak random havok in, kill random NPCs, maybe rob something then run from cops that spawn from nowhere when you get a "wanted level." But without the plot missions that actually give the GTA games something meaningful to do.

I would not want that in STO.

Wait. STO already HAS the plot missions. So if they did the random part, where you could now ... you know ... explore ... then they'd kind of re-capture a big part of the feel of Star Trek's ideals.

You wouldn't want that?

alexraptorr · August 2016

NMS? I can guarantee you 100% STO will never ever get anything remotely like that.

Unknown · August 2016

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rosetyler51 · August 2016

I don't think exploration or at least the kind of exploration that No Man Sky does is not needed in a Star Trek game.

To me what Trek always seen to be about was not the study of alien life but the study of mankind through the lens of creatures not quite like us but like us in so many ways. I don't think randomly created worlds and animals can give us that kind of story.

Unknown · August 2016

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snoggymack22 · August 2016

alexraptorr wrote: »

NMS? I can guarantee you 100% STO will never ever get anything remotely like that.

But it used to have something very similar to that. And that's all still there in the engine and the code and what not.

cuchulainn74 · August 2016

You know, I think the Foundry is probably the most realistic and promising means to an "Exploration" end for STO. For one thing, it requires so little Cryptic developer involvement, so they don't need to spend much on it beyond Foundry support. And for another thing, the imaginations of the entire Foundry community surely exceed in sheer volume anything a more limited set of developers can match. Before that becomes the real answer for exploration, though, Foundry projects might have to get a little bit easier to develop and submit.
As a wild sort of "spit-ball" idea, suppose map edges were all automatically linked to a specific Exploration type of Foundry mission. Every time you wished, you could travel to uncharted space, and accept a completely random Foundry created exploration mission.

scarling · August 2016

base building and player interactions are coming in future updates to NMS. So don't trash it just yet. Lots of improvement to go.

snoggymack22 · August 2016

cuchulainn74 wrote: »

You know, I think the Foundry is probably the most realistic and promising means to an "Exploration" end for STO. For one thing, it requires so little Cryptic developer involvement, so they don't need to spend much on it beyond Foundry support. And for another thing, the imaginations of the entire Foundry community surely exceed in sheer volume anything a more limited set of developers can match. Before that becomes the real answer for exploration, though, Foundry projects might have to get a little bit easier to develop and submit.
As a wild sort of "spit-ball" idea, suppose map edges were all automatically linked to a specific Exploration type of Foundry mission. Every time you wished, you could travel to uncharted space, and accept a completely random Foundry created exploration mission.

You're setting the Foundry to work more like Everquest Landmark, which is struggling. No Man's Sky is something a lot of people have been waiting to see if it will work to push forward the ideas and the industry. If it pans out, then you can try to evolve the concept by mixing in user customization to procedurally generated capabilities.

The possibilities could be limitless.

alexraptorr · August 2016

snoggymack22 wrote: »

alexraptorr wrote: »

NMS? I can guarantee you 100% STO will never ever get anything remotely like that.

But it used to have something very similar to that. And that's all still there in the engine and the code and what not.

Not even remotely.
Everything in the exploration missions were completely pre-fabricated, a handful of maps and items and basic mission premises that are randomly shuffled around.

No Mans Sky uses full on Procedural Generation to generate unique planets from the ground up, resulting no planet ever being "exactly" like the other.
STO has no such system at all, it would have to be created from scratch.

jbmonroe · August 2016

NMS is more Star Trek than STO only if it's named "Star Trek: Your Name is Mudd." There's no fleet in NMS--it's just you, your ship, and your reputation.

wendysue53 · August 2016

I haven't had a chance to play No man's yet, but have followed it through it's development and STO doesn't even measure up as far as the Star Trekiness of it.

Sad... it's what STO was supposed to be.

and it doesn't have that horizontal flight limiter in it either. (can't face up or down in a 3D space? too bad..)

lordgyor · August 2016

What Cyptic needs to do that's realistic is hire someone to be a full time Foundry DM.

What I mean is they play through a variety of foundry missions and organize the heck out of them, based on the types of missions, and then different locations would have a randomized set of missions that fit that location/theme.

So you go to the *blank* exploration cluster, and you get random foundry missions that are about exploring the *blank* cluster, not missions about politics on earth or vulcan, not defending Trill from an Undine invasion, just ones about exploring planets and space features lf the *blank* cluster, not EC farming missions (those would be located at holodecks).

And I'd set up a foundry reputation, playing foundry missions rewards exploration marks, and creating foundry missions that get accepted gets you elite marks, in this case say Exploration Research Datapads, as well as Exploration Marks and maybe zen.

You can get new gear, boffs, ect..., as well as buy new foundry mission slots.

Percedual Generated Content is along way off for STO, I don't think its even on their radar.

wendysue53 · August 2016

Also, No man's is so original and unique that even the creators don't know what will be there. They will tell you this as well. It's completely up to the generator they created which has NEVER been used by any other game or computer system. It's a completely new architecture.

It creates everything, right down to the pebbles you're walking on.

STO and No Man's Sky - Exploration Hopes and Dreams

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