test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options

CBS release official fan film rules

1356716

Comments

  • Options
    thekodanarmada#7342 thekodanarmada Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    Post deleted
    Post edited by askray on
    DInb0Vo.gif[/url][/center]
  • Options
    mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    angrytarg wrote: »
    licensed doesnt mean they are any more special than the fan made productions, if cryptic does something to upset cbs they would likely lose the license and sto would be no more. so it is the same thing from that point of view.

    In this case it is. The program you use to make foundry stuff is licensed. That means everything that is in the toybox of the foundry is safe for you to play with. The only things you shouldn't do like recreating characters you can't use the likeness of is stated in th EULA or foundry guidelines or whatever it's called and if you violate those Cryptic takes down your mission, but they can't face anything from CBS at this point.

    Then again, I have no idea how American copyright/trademark law works, but since STO and the foundry are already greenlit I don't think foundry authors have anything to be afraid of.​​

    you fail to understand the point, if cryptic does something to upset CBS like a fan made production there would be hell to pay for it, what you are arguing is irrelevant. cryptic can lose their license if they mess up just as easily as CBS can shoot down a fan made production.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • Options
    hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 10,761 Arc User
    Nope, because then those props/constumes would be imitations...

    :'(
  • Options
    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    you fail to understand the point, if cryptic does something to upset CBS like a fan made production there would be hell to pay for it, what you are arguing is irrelevant. cryptic can lose their license if they mess up just as easily as CBS can shoot down a fan made production.

    I guess, but that has been the case since forever. Cryptic has a license to produce STO. If any content they introduce somehow goes against the terms of their license they risk losing it (I think there are also a boatload of thigns that happen before a license is actually pulled), but I suppose that's how these things works forever. The fanfilm guidelines certainly don't affect STO or other licensed material at this point as they paid their fees and know pretty well what they can and can't do. Cryptic and CBS have a formal contract with clear terms.

    A fan project doesn't hold such a contract. What they do is technically illegal under copyright law I guess, but these guidelines pretty much say "that's the line we'll sue, before that we'll ignore it". The situation is not comparable to a licensee.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • Options
    marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    Post deleted
    Post edited by askray on
  • Options
    marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    hawku001x wrote: »
    Nope, because then those props/constumes would be imitations...

    :'(


    Yup... :'(
  • Options
    mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    edited June 2016
    angrytarg wrote: »
    licensed doesnt mean they are any more special than the fan made productions, if cryptic does something to upset cbs they would likely lose the license and sto would be no more. so it is the same thing from that point of view.

    In this case it is. The program you use to make foundry stuff is licensed. That means everything that is in the toybox of the foundry is safe for you to play with. The only things you shouldn't do like recreating characters you can't use the likeness of is stated in th EULA or foundry guidelines or whatever it's called and if you violate those Cryptic takes down your mission, but they can't face anything from CBS at this point.

    Then again, I have no idea how American copyright/trademark law works, but since STO and the foundry are already greenlit I don't think foundry authors have anything to be afraid of.​​

    you fail to understand the point, if cryptic does something to upset CBS like a fan made production there would be hell to pay for it, what you are arguing is irrelevant. cryptic can lose their license if they mess up just as easily as CBS can shoot down a fan made production.

    That point doesn't matter. At all.

    Why? PWE/Cryptic is a business. For them to do anything that would upset CBS would be company suicide. There is ZERO chance of that happening.

    EDIT TO ADD: I'm pretty sure that, once foundry authors submit their works to STO, it becomes the property of Cryptic. So, if there is anything remotely improper in a foundry mission, Cryptic would just delete the mission.
    d87926bd02aaa4eb12e2bb0fbc1f7061.jpg
  • Options
    mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    mhall85 wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    licensed doesnt mean they are any more special than the fan made productions, if cryptic does something to upset cbs they would likely lose the license and sto would be no more. so it is the same thing from that point of view.

    In this case it is. The program you use to make foundry stuff is licensed. That means everything that is in the toybox of the foundry is safe for you to play with. The only things you shouldn't do like recreating characters you can't use the likeness of is stated in th EULA or foundry guidelines or whatever it's called and if you violate those Cryptic takes down your mission, but they can't face anything from CBS at this point.

    Then again, I have no idea how American copyright/trademark law works, but since STO and the foundry are already greenlit I don't think foundry authors have anything to be afraid of.​​

    you fail to understand the point, if cryptic does something to upset CBS like a fan made production there would be hell to pay for it, what you are arguing is irrelevant. cryptic can lose their license if they mess up just as easily as CBS can shoot down a fan made production.

    That point doesn't matter. At all.

    Why? PWE/Cryptic is a business. For them to do anything that would upset CBS would be company suicide. There is ZERO chance of that happening.

    to say it wouldnt happen is to say a human would never think. on this planet anything can happen, true it maybe a small chance but it can happen.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • Options
    mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    mhall85 wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    licensed doesnt mean they are any more special than the fan made productions, if cryptic does something to upset cbs they would likely lose the license and sto would be no more. so it is the same thing from that point of view.

    In this case it is. The program you use to make foundry stuff is licensed. That means everything that is in the toybox of the foundry is safe for you to play with. The only things you shouldn't do like recreating characters you can't use the likeness of is stated in th EULA or foundry guidelines or whatever it's called and if you violate those Cryptic takes down your mission, but they can't face anything from CBS at this point.

    Then again, I have no idea how American copyright/trademark law works, but since STO and the foundry are already greenlit I don't think foundry authors have anything to be afraid of.​​

    you fail to understand the point, if cryptic does something to upset CBS like a fan made production there would be hell to pay for it, what you are arguing is irrelevant. cryptic can lose their license if they mess up just as easily as CBS can shoot down a fan made production.

    That point doesn't matter. At all.

    Why? PWE/Cryptic is a business. For them to do anything that would upset CBS would be company suicide. There is ZERO chance of that happening.

    to say it wouldnt happen is to say a human would never think. on this planet anything can happen, true it maybe a small chance but it can happen.

    Whatever. Let me rephrase that:

    If Cryptic Studios wants to continue to be a viable business, there is ZERO chance of them pissing off CBS to the point of losing the IP license.

    Better?
    d87926bd02aaa4eb12e2bb0fbc1f7061.jpg
  • Options
    itpalgitpalg Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    I hope Star Trek Continues, can continue.
    Those have been the best TOS non-profit series I have ever seen. They even include past actors from TOS, TNG, DS9.
    ITPaladin.png
  • Options
    angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    to say it wouldnt happen is to say a human would never think. on this planet anything can happen, true it maybe a small chance but it can happen.

    So, you just wanted to state a random fact. Like "water is hot after heating".​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • Options
    sarreoussarreous Member Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    samt1996 wrote: »
    They would've done this either way they just needed something to set them off.

    I fully agree with this statement. The battle between fans and ip owners has been going on for a centuries. I mean come on, Abridged videos used to get muted on youtube (in which the guy behind yu-gi-oh abridged responded by taking a camera outside to some street corner or something and reciting all of the dialogue for an episode.)

    While Peters takes the blame for setting this off, that's all he did. He was the opening they needed. If these rules are officially established I expect a Fair Use lawsuit to eventually take place.

    There's also this from wikipedia:
    The Fair Use Project is part of the Stanford Center for Internet and Society at Stanford Law School. Founded in 2006, it offers legal assistance to "clarify, and extend, the boundaries of "fair use" in order to enhance creative freedom."[1] It is headed by Tony Falzone, lecturer at Stanford Law.[2] It has been involved in several notable cases such as Aguiar v. Webb, Brave New Films v. Viacom, Golan v. Gonzales, Kahle v. Gonzales, Lennon v. Premise Media, Warner Brothers and JK Rowling v. RDR Books, Shloss v. Joyce, and Vargas v. BT.

    This is far from over in my opinion. It's also now beyond this Peters individual as far as I'm concerned. CBS has escalated this issue to a larger arena.

    Edit: And to add in one more thing, I used to be a part of an online rp group that used various ip's, such as Star Trek, Star Wars, Doctor Who...it was non profit, there were no ads, the guy running it made no money off of it. Not only that, you needed an account to get to the content. It was all private. That didn't stop a Cease and Desist letter which had them shut down their Firefly area.

    Fans need to remain vigilant, but rational with a little patience.
    Post edited by sarreous on
  • Options
    crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    The interesting thing is: Alec peters and Axanar were touting the fact that Disney had rules for Star Wars Fan Films; and urging CBS and Paramount to adopt similar rules. The interesting thing to note is that as strict as these new Star Trek Fan Film Guidelines are, they are actually LESS draconian the Disney 'Star Wars' fan film guidelines.

    Also, the opening statement at:

    http://www.startrek.com/fan-films
    CBS and Paramount Pictures are big believers in reasonable fan fiction and fan creativity, and, in particular, want amateur fan filmmakers to showcase their passion for Star Trek. Therefore, CBS and Paramount Pictures will not object to, or take legal action against, Star Trek fan productions that are non-professional and amateur and meet the following guidelines.
    ^^^

    Doesn't explicitly state that they WILL ALWAYS take action if the above is violated - just that they MAY raise an objection or MAY take legal action.

    IMO - It probably means that the Star Trek Continues group as well as the Renagades group might be allowed to continue and complete what they already announced they'll be doing; but any group starting up a new Fan Film project going forward now, runs a grater risk if the Guidelines are not followed. But again, that's conjecture on my part.

    Then there's the final statement on the Guidelines page:
    CBS and Paramount Pictures reserve the right to revise, revoke and/or withdraw these guidelines at any time in their own discretion. These guidelines are not a license and do not constitute approval or authorization of any fan productions or a waiver of any rights that CBS or Paramount Pictures may have with respect to fan fiction created outside of these guidelines.

    So, effectively the situation remains that CBS and or Paramount are free to selectively go after anyone who doesn't obtain an IP License from them to produce something Star Trek related; but does decide to produce something Star Trek related.

    As for Axanar in particular - "It's dead Jim." - 100%. CBS and Paramount have already raised the ultimate objection to Axanar by filing and pursuing the lawsuit; and further since Axanar Productions and Alec Peters have claimed IN COURT FILINGS that:

    "No finalized/locked Axanar script exists."

    I'm pretty sure ANY settlement with regard to the continuation of Axanar production will include a provision to the effect of: "Yes, you can, but ONLY if you completely follow the new Star Trek Fan Film guidelines that CBS and Paramount have set forth."

    Hilariously (but sadly for many Star Trek fan film fans and groups), in the end, with regard to Star Trek Fan Film Guidelines, Alec Peters, Robert Meyer Burnett and hell, David Gerrold got EXACTLY what they were asking for from CBS and Paramount in their Tweets/Facebook Posts/Blogs. <--- So again, the old saying applies: "Be careful what you wish for.."
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • Options
    saekiithsaekiith Member Posts: 534 Arc User
    I am pretty sure that Clown Peters now sits in his home with a glass of expensive Whiskey and is laughing his TRIBBLE off...
    Being so proud of his ultimate genious...

    That's exactly what he bargained for... I mean either they give up and let him continue and effectively end CBS/Paramounts Ownership or enact this... shut everything down, still be "the evil" while he can make it off with all the money he collected and when people rightly demand the production he can point at them and say "No can do...".

    That's real villain material... either get what you want or destroy everything!
    He's got the latter.
    Selor Andaram Ephelion Kiith
  • Options
    mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    saekiith wrote: »
    I am pretty sure that Clown Peters now sits in his home with a glass of expensive Whiskey and is laughing his **** off...
    Being so proud of his ultimate genious...

    That's exactly what he bargained for... I mean either they give up and let him continue and effectively end CBS/Paramounts Ownership or enact this... shut everything down, still be "the evil" while he can make it off with all the money he collected and when people rightly demand the production he can point at them and say "No can do...".

    That's real villain material... either get what you want or destroy everything!
    He's got the latter.

    it depends happens after peters is no longer an issue, hopefully rotting behind bars. would cbs keep a constant vigilance or relax the rules a little? 30 minutes per episode seems a reasonable window to work in. trying to tell a story in an episode in 15 minutes with actors and production crews working gratis isnt going to be easy for sure.

    he may not have the last laugh. see what happens, but i doubt cbs and paramount will roll over and let peters take everything that trek stood for and turn it into his own personal weapon.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • Options
    jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    A sad day for Star Trek fans who want to add to the universe they love.
  • Options
    voyagerfan9751voyagerfan9751 Member Posts: 1,120 Arc User

    to say it wouldnt happen is to say a human would never think. on this planet anything can happen, true it maybe a small chance but it can happen.

    Is it possibly. Sure, Cryptic could do something to revoke its license. But the odds are so small they they might as well be impossible.

    As others have said, STO is a licensed product, as such they have protections that allow them to operate, and profit, from the venture. There is also stipulations within the agreement, which prevent them from doing things that potentially would cost them their license agreement. Mostly because CBS has avenues to redress anything problematic before it has to get to the lawyers.

    ANYTHING added to the game has to be approved first by CBS, That includes the Foundry. Whether it is in the assets available or covered by the EULA of the Foundry, odds are that if CBS had a problem with it, they would catch it in one of those. And again, tell Cryptic they can't include whatever it was that bothered them.

    So any fears of CBS coming after STO or the Foundry, is just paranoia at this point. It is not worth worrying about.
  • Options
    sfdstuff#3558 sfdstuff Member Posts: 85 Arc User
    some people really need to learn how to read and comprehend. this is what the rule says:

    "If the fan production uses commercially-available Star Trek uniforms, accessories, toys and props, these items must be official merchandise and not bootleg items or imitations of such commercially available products."

    that means you cannot make something IF it is commercially available. if something is NOT commercially available, that rule does not apply. reading comprehension.
  • Options
    marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    some people really need to learn how to read and comprehend. this is what the rule says:

    "If the fan production uses commercially-available Star Trek uniforms, accessories, toys and props, these items must be official merchandise and not bootleg items or imitations of such commercially available products."

    that means you cannot make something IF it is commercially available. if something is NOT commercially available, that rule does not apply. reading comprehension.
    I think it's your reading comprehension which is at fault there...



    "If the fan production uses commercially-available Star Trek uniforms, accessories, toys and props, these items must be official merchandise and not bootleg items or imitations of such commercially available products."

    Translation:

    I can make a fan film with Rubies costumes and Hasbro phasers... I can't make a fan film with this:

    49675dce112ca5216c24518ed606cdf3_zpsyw0jwpyh.jpg
  • Options
    sfdstuff#3558 sfdstuff Member Posts: 85 Arc User
    some people really need to learn how to read and comprehend. this is what the rule says:

    "If the fan production uses commercially-available Star Trek uniforms, accessories, toys and props, these items must be official merchandise and not bootleg items or imitations of such commercially available products."

    that means you cannot make something IF it is commercially available. if something is NOT commercially available, that rule does not apply. reading comprehension.
    I think it's your reading comprehension which is at fault there...



    "If the fan production uses commercially-available Star Trek uniforms, accessories, toys and props, these items must be official merchandise and not bootleg items or imitations of such commercially available products."

    Translation:

    I can make a fan film with Rubies costumes and Hasbro phasers... I can't make a fan film with this:

    49675dce112ca5216c24518ed606cdf3_zpsyw0jwpyh.jpg

    my reading comprehension is good, but my wording was not. when I said "cannot make" i meant the prop, not the fanfilm. the rules states that if a prop is commercially available, you cannot make your own version of the prop. but if a prop is not commercially available, the rule does not apply, meaning you can make your own version. so if you need some weird alien costume that isnt commercially sold, you can make your own.
  • Options
    marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    some people really need to learn how to read and comprehend. this is what the rule says:

    "If the fan production uses commercially-available Star Trek uniforms, accessories, toys and props, these items must be official merchandise and not bootleg items or imitations of such commercially available products."

    that means you cannot make something IF it is commercially available. if something is NOT commercially available, that rule does not apply. reading comprehension.
    I think it's your reading comprehension which is at fault there...



    "If the fan production uses commercially-available Star Trek uniforms, accessories, toys and props, these items must be official merchandise and not bootleg items or imitations of such commercially available products."

    Translation:

    I can make a fan film with Rubies costumes and Hasbro phasers... I can't make a fan film with this:

    49675dce112ca5216c24518ed606cdf3_zpsyw0jwpyh.jpg

    my reading comprehension is good, but my wording was not. when I said "cannot make" i meant the prop, not the fanfilm. the rules states that if a prop is commercially available, you cannot make your own version of the prop. but if a prop is not commercially available, the rule does not apply, meaning you can make your own version. so if you need some weird alien costume that isnt commercially sold, you can make your own.

    Yes, I understood that that was what you were meaning, and I admit, that is certainly a reading of the way it's written, but I believe what they mean by it, is that props/costumes have to be commercially available, not DIY... DIY means people can recreate exactly what they require, officially sanctioned or otherwise, and allows for a better quality production, where restricting fanfilms to commercially available props/costumes, is another way of limiting the quality of what they can present, hence why I believe that was what they were meaning... B)
  • Options
    evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    Post deleted
    Post edited by askray on
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
    eaY7Xxu.png
  • Options
    sfdstuff#3558 sfdstuff Member Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    Post deleted
    Post edited by askray on
  • Options
    thekodanarmada#7342 thekodanarmada Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    It is simply no longer acceptable language.
    It is our collective responsibility to call it out.
    Prevarication is not allowed as a defense.
    DInb0Vo.gif[/url][/center]
  • Options
    crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    my reading comprehension is good, but my wording was not. when I said "cannot make" i meant the prop, not the fanfilm. the rules states that if a prop is commercially available, you cannot make your own version of the prop. but if a prop is not commercially available, the rule does not apply, meaning you can make your own version. so if you need some weird alien costume that isnt commercially sold, you can make your own.

    Actually no. If you have someone listed as your Costume Designer/Fabricator; she's free to make ANY Star Trek related costume herself from scratch for the production (IE draw the patterns herself, cut and sew the fabric, etc.) She can't be paid a salary or fee for her time spent - but she can be reimbursed the materials cost (or be provided with the materials. IF she decides to use a pre-made pattern said pattern MUST be an official (and commercially available) pattern licensed by CBS/Paramount. She CANNOT go online/go to a convention and buy and use a pattern from some unlicensed fan (or company.) <--- The way around that would be to include said fan in the production staff, etc. But that fan couldn't be reimbursed beyond the actual materials cost of the pattern - and if he didn't want to be a part of said production, they can't use the pattern.

    The same would go for other props and elements. if your group makes it 100% themselves, you're fine. If you bought a finished 'Phaser' prop online or at a Convention that ISN'T licensed by CBS/Paramount you CAN'T use that.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • Options
    kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    regardless of wording it was really poor form and should never have been said... how would he like it if I "hoped" all those things happened to him for wanting something that evil on someone else?
  • Options
    marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    Post deleted
    Post edited by askray on
  • Options
    marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    Post deleted
    Post edited by askray on
  • Options
    marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    It is simply no longer acceptable language.
    It is our collective responsibility to call it out.
    Prevarication is not allowed as a defense.
    And who the TRIBBLE are you to tell me, or anyone, what is, or is not acceptable language?? Who the TRIBBLE do you think you are?? Go win a Darwin Award...

Sign In or Register to comment.