Bad gut feeling about the Vengence.

hyefather
hyefather Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
I have a bad feeling about the Vengence. I think Cryptic is going to give us the Avenger/Arbiter just with a new skin and in thier mind to make it more powerfull throw a stuppied hanger bay on it.
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  • nikeix
    nikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    The Vengeance in screen canon has two phaser sentry drones which will line up with STO's two-frigates-in-one-hanger rules nicely. Putting a hanger on the Fed Battlecruiser template would be a good and accurate treatment of the subject.

    And yes, it's going to be the single most powerful ship in the game (by a modest margin). Like happens every time a new wave of ships comes out.

    But I'm sure you could find pretty much full stats, thoughtful discussion of this very topic, and even some builds if you look for existing threads with the word Vengeance in the title...
  • sunfrancks
    sunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    hyefather wrote: »
    I have a bad feeling about the Vengence. I think Cryptic is going to give us the Avenger/Arbiter just with a new skin and in thier mind to make it more powerfull throw a stuppied hanger bay on it.

    See my sig for what it will probably be, based on Cryptic's own tweet leak's..
    nikeix wrote: »
    The Vengeance in screen canon has two phaser sentry drones which will line up with STO's two-frigates-in-one-hanger rules nicely. Putting a hanger on the Fed Battlecruiser template would be a good and accurate treatment of the subject.

    And yes, it's going to be the single most powerful ship in the game (by a modest margin). Like happens every time a new wave of ships comes out.

    But I'm sure you could find pretty much full stats, thoughtful discussion of this very topic, and even some builds if you look for existing threads with the word Vengeance in the title...

    Not sure it will beat the Scimitar, but it will be close.

    The trait and console will be the ultimately decide how OP it is.
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  • sunfrancks
    sunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    If so can I use parts from it on my Avenger / Arbiter?​​

    Unlikely, as they're completely different ships.
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  • legendarylycan#5411
    legendarylycan#5411 Member Posts: 36,946 Arc User
    the only way it would end up being stronger than the scimitar is if it had its original 4 sci console setup instead of the 2 it has now; as it is now, it's still going to give every other T6 at the top of the charts a run for their money - including the annorax​​
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  • seaofsorrows
    seaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,889 Arc User
    The Scimitar will still have a better console layout, a battle cloak, and the ability to launch Romulan Drones. The Vengeance will be on the Scimitar level, but isn't going to out right dethrone the Scimitar. The big thing for feds is that they get their version of the Scimitar.. it's just going to be super expensive.

    As I said in another thread, for me personally.. I'll still get better DPS out of the Arbiter. On the Romulan side, I pull higher DPS with the Morrigu then I do the Scimitar due to the superior handling of the ship. The Vengeance, like the Scimitar will probably handle like a brick suspended in a bucket of oatmeal. While the Romulan ships can use the battle cloak to help with maneuvering and positioning, the Vengeance likely (hopefully) won't have a full battle cloak. If you're a captain that likes to take full advantage of flanking using Intel Spec then the Vengeance should have a huge disadvantage there.

    Of course, it's final stats haven't been released yet, and honestly.. Cryptic seems dead set on making the Vengeance the new king in order to milk as many key sales as possible. It wouldn't be a total surprise if they made it a huge ship that handles like an escort. This ship appears to be all about the profit.

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  • jaturnley
    jaturnley Member Posts: 1,217 Arc User
    Apparently someone doesn't know the rule about posting unreleased content in the forums. I suspect a sig will be removed forcefully and sig capability removed from someone soon....
  • seaofsorrows
    seaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,889 Arc User
    jaturnley wrote: »
    Apparently someone doesn't know the rule about posting unreleased content in the forums. I suspect a sig will be removed forcefully and sig capability removed from someone soon....

    His sig clearly says that's what he wants.. not what it is.

    If you're confirming that the information is right or wrong, then the only one actually breaking a rule is you.
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  • nikeix
    nikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    More than half his sig is stuff Cryptic posted themselves as an adorable little easter egg on twitter. The rest is a very easy extrapolation from known patterns.

    Y'all can get over this 'its a big mystery' gag.
  • sunfrancks
    sunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    jaturnley wrote: »
    Apparently someone doesn't know the rule about posting unreleased content in the forums. I suspect a sig will be removed forcefully and sig capability removed from someone soon....

    Nope, it is what I think/want it to be based on what Cryptic have leaked in their own tweet's.

    No idea if this is actually how it will be, just a guess..
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  • tessaravejgan
    tessaravejgan Member Posts: 276
    hyefather wrote: »
    I have a bad feeling about the Vengence. I think Cryptic is going to give us the Avenger/Arbiter just with a new skin and in thier mind to make it more powerfull throw a stuppied hanger bay on it.

    From what my tribble told me its gonna be great.
  • samt1996
    samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Can someone please link this Easter egg? I can't find it anywhere.
  • hyefather
    hyefather Member Posts: 1,286 Arc User
    sunfrancks wrote: »
    jaturnley wrote: »
    Apparently someone doesn't know the rule about posting unreleased content in the forums. I suspect a sig will be removed forcefully and sig capability removed from someone soon....

    Nope, it is what I think/want it to be based on what Cryptic have leaked in their own tweet's.

    No idea if this is actually how it will be, just a guess..

    Lets say you got "Lucky" and nailed the stats in your sig. There are a few things I would like see changed. To make the ship more diverse and more desirable IMO. The console layout 5 tac, 3 eng, 3 sci OR 4 tac, 3 Eng and 4 sci. Everything else seems pretty nice. The special console that comes with it I think should be this, A extended arm (just like in the movie) that fires 6 vollys of Torpedo spreed 3 or Toggle for 3 vollys of High Yield 3. It needs to be something with a WOW factor, like holy TRIBBLE did you see that. The cloak should be a battle cloak but NOT a enhanced Battle cloak. You know what. Now that I think about it. Make it a 3 pack and call it a day. That way everybodys happy.

  • ktonof1aq
    ktonof1aq Member Posts: 210 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    hyefather wrote: »
    Lets say you got "Lucky" and nailed the stats in your sig. There are a few things I would like see changed. To make the ship more diverse and more desirable IMO. The console layout 5 tac, 3 eng, 3 sci OR 4 tac, 3 Eng and 4 sci. Everything else seems pretty nice. The special console that comes with it I think should be this, A extended arm (just like in the movie) that fires 6 vollys of Torpedo spreed 3 or Toggle for 3 vollys of High Yield 3. It needs to be something with a WOW factor, like holy **** did you see that. The cloak should be a battle cloak but NOT a enhanced Battle cloak. You know what. Now that I think about it. Make it a 3 pack and call it a day. That way everybodys happy.

    I'm more concerned about getting attacked in sector space. I mean this ship fired phasers at warp speed.
  • themetalstickman
    themetalstickman Member Posts: 1,009 Arc User
    ktonof1aq wrote: »
    hyefather wrote: »
    Lets say you got "Lucky" and nailed the stats in your sig. There are a few things I would like see changed. To make the ship more diverse and more desirable IMO. The console layout 5 tac, 3 eng, 3 sci OR 4 tac, 3 Eng and 4 sci. Everything else seems pretty nice. The special console that comes with it I think should be this, A extended arm (just like in the movie) that fires 6 vollys of Torpedo spreed 3 or Toggle for 3 vollys of High Yield 3. It needs to be something with a WOW factor, like holy **** did you see that. The cloak should be a battle cloak but NOT a enhanced Battle cloak. You know what. Now that I think about it. Make it a 3 pack and call it a day. That way everybodys happy.

    I'm more concerned about getting attacked in sector space. I mean this ship fired phasers at warp speed.

    I think this post wins the thread.
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  • trejgon
    trejgon Member Posts: 323 Arc User
    ktonof1aq wrote: »
    hyefather wrote: »
    Lets say you got "Lucky" and nailed the stats in your sig. There are a few things I would like see changed. To make the ship more diverse and more desirable IMO. The console layout 5 tac, 3 eng, 3 sci OR 4 tac, 3 Eng and 4 sci. Everything else seems pretty nice. The special console that comes with it I think should be this, A extended arm (just like in the movie) that fires 6 vollys of Torpedo spreed 3 or Toggle for 3 vollys of High Yield 3. It needs to be something with a WOW factor, like holy **** did you see that. The cloak should be a battle cloak but NOT a enhanced Battle cloak. You know what. Now that I think about it. Make it a 3 pack and call it a day. That way everybodys happy.

    I'm more concerned about getting attacked in sector space. I mean this ship fired phasers at warp speed.

    as all TOS ships did with no one having issues with it ;p

    to quote Kirk himself "a ship not capable of warp speeds is like a punching brick" it was his comment on the situation of enterprise having to receive attack runs from unidentified vessel while flying impulse

    Vengeance is the first post TNG ship that matches combat capability of ships from TOS era ;p

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  • legendarylycan#5411
    legendarylycan#5411 Member Posts: 36,946 Arc User
    no, it's the...however many - the scimitar fired at warp too, as did voyager, and there are probably many other examples i'm missing as well​​
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  • jaturnley
    jaturnley Member Posts: 1,217 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    no, it's the...however many - the scimitar fired at warp too, as did voyager, and there are probably many other examples i'm missing as well​​

    Ships did it on Enterprise as well, although not consistently. The ship's plot device is what allows it, and that stupid thing breaks all the time.
  • alcyoneserene
    alcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,412 Arc User
    ktonof1aq wrote: »
    hyefather wrote: »
    Lets say you got "Lucky" and nailed the stats in your sig. There are a few things I would like see changed. To make the ship more diverse and more desirable IMO. The console layout 5 tac, 3 eng, 3 sci OR 4 tac, 3 Eng and 4 sci. Everything else seems pretty nice. The special console that comes with it I think should be this, A extended arm (just like in the movie) that fires 6 vollys of Torpedo spreed 3 or Toggle for 3 vollys of High Yield 3. It needs to be something with a WOW factor, like holy **** did you see that. The cloak should be a battle cloak but NOT a enhanced Battle cloak. You know what. Now that I think about it. Make it a 3 pack and call it a day. That way everybodys happy.

    I'm more concerned about getting attacked in sector space. I mean this ship fired phasers at warp speed.

    I think this post wins the thread.

    Even if it was unique, which it seems it is not, it makes no difference to actual gameplay. All the warp and instant travel mechanics bonuses that are a feature of many ships do nothing to give the ship an advantage where it really matters outside of sector travel. One cannot fight at warp outside of a single staged cut-scene with the rogue Annorax, use it to chase or ambush enemies, escape battle situations with greater chances of success (outside of leaving the queue), explore new worlds and travel to distant corners of the galaxy with greater range.

    Also, excuse my TOS and JJ-trek ignorance, but did the Vengeance have cloak in the film for it to possibly come with standard built-in cloak?
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  • legendarylycan#5411
    legendarylycan#5411 Member Posts: 36,946 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    not that there's any onscreen evidence of, but considering it was built by section 31 with khan's aid, the chances of it having one are higher than the chances of it not

    not like there's any treaty of algeron currently in effect in the AR to prevent them from developing one, or just swiping one from the klingons or romulans​​
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  • talonxv
    talonxv Member Posts: 4,250 Arc User
    ktonof1aq wrote: »
    hyefather wrote: »
    Lets say you got "Lucky" and nailed the stats in your sig. There are a few things I would like see changed. To make the ship more diverse and more desirable IMO. The console layout 5 tac, 3 eng, 3 sci OR 4 tac, 3 Eng and 4 sci. Everything else seems pretty nice. The special console that comes with it I think should be this, A extended arm (just like in the movie) that fires 6 vollys of Torpedo spreed 3 or Toggle for 3 vollys of High Yield 3. It needs to be something with a WOW factor, like holy **** did you see that. The cloak should be a battle cloak but NOT a enhanced Battle cloak. You know what. Now that I think about it. Make it a 3 pack and call it a day. That way everybodys happy.

    I'm more concerned about getting attacked in sector space. I mean this ship fired phasers at warp speed.

    Um Enterprise D did it a few times during the show as well.
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  • galatt
    galatt Member Posts: 707 Arc User
    no, it's the...however many - the scimitar fired at warp too, as did voyager, and there are probably many other examples i'm missing as well​​

    DS9's "Waltz"; Dominion ships fire on a Nebula while at warp.
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  • breadandcircuses
    breadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    Also, excuse my TOS and JJ-trek ignorance, but did the Vengeance have cloak in the film for it to possibly come with standard built-in cloak?

    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Vengeance and http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Dreadnought_class

    Not that's mentioned on Memory Alpha, though it might have some kind of enhanced warp drive. The closest thing would be the comments about its design:
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  • legendarylycan#5411
    legendarylycan#5411 Member Posts: 36,946 Arc User
    galatt wrote: »
    no, it's the...however many - the scimitar fired at warp too, as did voyager, and there are probably many other examples i'm missing as well

    DS9's "Waltz"; Dominion ships fire on a Nebula while at warp.

    yeah, that one i definitely never would've remembered because i've only seen that episode once...and it was a few years ago to boot

    though, speaking of DS9...wasn't there an episode where kor took a bird of prey and knocked an entire squad of jem'hadar attack ships out of warp to allow another klingon vessel to escape pursuit? that would qualify as firing at warp too​​
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  • antonine3258
    antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,391 Arc User

    galatt wrote: »
    no, it's the...however many - the scimitar fired at warp too, as did voyager, and there are probably many other examples i'm missing as well

    DS9's "Waltz"; Dominion ships fire on a Nebula while at warp.

    yeah, that one i definitely never would've remembered because i've only seen that episode once...and it was a few years ago to boot

    though, speaking of DS9...wasn't there an episode where kor took a bird of prey and knocked an entire squad of jem'hadar attack ships out of warp to allow another klingon vessel to escape pursuit? that would qualify as firing at warp too​​

    TNG/DS9 generally used torpedoes at warp and had no issues - but energy weapon use has been very rare.

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  • talonxv
    talonxv Member Posts: 4,250 Arc User
    galatt wrote: »
    no, it's the...however many - the scimitar fired at warp too, as did voyager, and there are probably many other examples i'm missing as well

    DS9's "Waltz"; Dominion ships fire on a Nebula while at warp.

    yeah, that one i definitely never would've remembered because i've only seen that episode once...and it was a few years ago to boot

    though, speaking of DS9...wasn't there an episode where kor took a bird of prey and knocked an entire squad of jem'hadar attack ships out of warp to allow another klingon vessel to escape pursuit? that would qualify as firing at warp too​​

    TNG/DS9 generally used torpedoes at warp and had no issues - but energy weapon use has been very rare.

    Hell during the warp wormhole, Kirk was about to order Phasers to destroy the object, but the only reason he couldn't fire them was because they were disabled because of the warp drive on the fritz.
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  • samt1996
    samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    The battle between the Prometheus and an unidentified Nebula class vessel in "Message in a Bottle" took place entirely at warp speeds including use of the MVAM although only phasers were used.
  • bernatk
    bernatk Member Posts: 1,089 Bug Hunter
    This ship appears to be all about the profit.

    You need to look at it as they will need to pay out Paramount. This ship is Paramount's property and probably they want a huge cut for it.

    Also if the sig is true this will be the most OP ship ever. Unless it has a turn rate of 1. Then it's ok lol...
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  • sharpie65
    sharpie65 Member Posts: 679 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    hyefather wrote: »
    sunfrancks wrote: »
    jaturnley wrote: »
    Apparently someone doesn't know the rule about posting unreleased content in the forums. I suspect a sig will be removed forcefully and sig capability removed from someone soon....

    Nope, it is what I think/want it to be based on what Cryptic have leaked in their own tweet's.

    No idea if this is actually how it will be, just a guess..

    Lets say you got "Lucky" and nailed the stats in your sig. There are a few things I would like see changed. To make the ship more diverse and more desirable IMO. The console layout 5 tac, 3 eng, 3 sci OR 4 tac, 3 Eng and 4 sci. Everything else seems pretty nice. The special console that comes with it I think should be this, A extended arm (just like in the movie) that fires 6 vollys of Torpedo spreed 3 or Toggle for 3 vollys of High Yield 3. It needs to be something with a WOW factor, like holy **** did you see that. The cloak should be a battle cloak but NOT a enhanced Battle cloak. You know what. Now that I think about it. Make it a 3 pack and call it a day. That way everybodys happy.

    Your "more desirable" stats would blow the general rule for cruisers right out of the water. For a start, the Vengeance is a Dreadnought CRUISER, and, like every other cruiser at [T6], it will have no less than 5 Engineering console slots. As for Tactical and Science, the stats in @sunfrancks sig are more than sufficient for a Dreadnought Cruiser-classed ship - which is effectively a heavy battlecruiser - to be balanced.

    Asking for anything more is both ridiculous and pointless, we never got a god-mode GCS or Defiant when they became T6 - in spite of their many appearances in the shows and movies - so why should the Vengeance (a C23rd ship) be absolutely godly, just because it smashed the Gray Lady into smithereens?
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  • nikeix
    nikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    ktonof1aq wrote: »
    I'm more concerned about getting attacked in sector space. I mean this ship fired phasers at warp speed.
    I think this post wins the thread.

    Only because you missed that we told this exact joke in the "I want to recreate the USS Vengeance" thread two months ago :).