Because none of the other shows or films were. Not even TOS which was all Gene to the same extent as the AR is all JJ.
And as I said above, all the other shows and films (other than those listed exceptions) were still the ongoing works set in one quantum reality. Sure, they were each writer's personal take on things, but they were still presented as continuations of the PrimeVerse, which the JJVerse, quite simply, is not, and even acknowledges such within the 09 Movie... As I said, you're making an apples and oranges comparison... Beyond may not be 'JJTrek', but it is still set in the JJVerse. And again, as mentioned, there are too many differences between that and the PrimeVerse to simply be acknowledged as being caused by Nero's incursion. Yes, that played a part, but not to that extent and that manner (ie technology, character ages etc) those are contrivances for the sake of the movie which should not have been affected by the Kelvin Incident, yet we're being asked to believe that they were... I can understand them wanting to through a different handle on it for the sake of the marketing, rather than calling it the JJVerse, but that IS what it is, and all the time people understand that term of reference, IMHO, it's a valid one...
Like I pointed out, while JJTrek does point out its a new reality, and was originally brought to us by JJ Abrams, the fact remains that JJTrek is still used in a negative connotation. Basically an excuse to bash everything in that reality because of the producer. Even the upcoming movie, directed by Justin Lin and NOT JJ Abrams, is still under the dark cloud of "JJTrek" because its in the same reality, therefor is just as "bad" as the rest of them and not worthy of our attention because "JJ ruined Star Trek, therefor anything associated with him is bad and must be destroyed/burned/veto'd/alienated/ect".
THAT is what I feel is the core issue, and why I personally prefer to use AR Trek and not JJTrek. To get away from that stigma that people have pinned to it. Trek is Trek. Doesn't matter who directed it. We gotta live with it. Can't just stick our heads in the sand and pretend it didn't happen.
IDIC
NO! The stigma which it gave itself (which JJ gave it) by re-writing characters, revising technology, modifying design aesthetics, errors in plot and terminology... Don't you dare try and present the lie that JJTrek is some blameless and mis-maligned party in this, when people's issue with it (rightly or wrongly, depending on one's point of view) consistently come from analysis and deconstruction of the source material -- the movies -- it/themself... If people enjoy the movies, fantastic, all power to them. But the reasons why people dislike them, are unquestionable and completely fair in their application...
guys, guys. you are debating a point which is already settled. google "ar trek". the results are the same as if you just google "star trek". it doesn't show you anything about the kelvin timeline or the new movies. now google "jj trek". all of the results are about the new movies. whether you like the terminology or not, "jj trek" has already become the pop culture term for these new movies setting. it is already part of the zeitgeist. waging your own little forum crusade isnt going to change that at this point.
I call it the Abramsverse, as does Star Trek author Christopher L. Bennett: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Alternate_reality#Name_of_the_timeline. I may have called it similar names in the past, usually Abrams-something, but until CBS itself makes a statement the tweet of a game company that has a proper name for the alternate reality, for the sake of grouping content together, isn't proof of a name change.
Crash like you i dont like the JJverse, but ive come to relise something, it may not be my trek, the trek i grew up with, but it is star trek and its the next generation of trekkies star trek.
Its the same thing when TNG came out, alot of old trekkies hated it because it was differnt, but it has become loved by the majority if not all trekkies, the same will be of the JJVerse aka Kelvin Timeline.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,114Community Moderator
NO! The stigma which it gave itself (which JJ gave it) by re-writing characters, revising technology, modifying design aesthetics, errors in plot and terminology... Don't you dare try and present the lie that JJTrek is some blameless and mis-maligned party in this, when people's issue with it (rightly or wrongly, depending on one's point of view) consistently come from analysis and deconstruction of the source material -- the movies -- it/themself... If people enjoy the movies, fantastic, all power to them. But the reasons why people dislike them, are unquestionable and completely fair in their application...
But the fact that a lot of people feel the need to instantly jump those who say they like it as if they need to be "shown the light" is the issue.
There are also others who rage against even the idea of the idea that we'd see AR Trek content makes them get the pitchforks.
I didn't say it was blameless either. None of the movies are. Even Wrath of Khan has its issues.
NO! The stigma which it gave itself (which JJ gave it) by re-writing characters, revising technology, modifying design aesthetics, errors in plot and terminology... Don't you dare try and present the lie that JJTrek is some blameless and mis-maligned party in this, when people's issue with it (rightly or wrongly, depending on one's point of view) consistently come from analysis and deconstruction of the source material -- the movies -- it/themself... If people enjoy the movies, fantastic, all power to them. But the reasons why people dislike them, are unquestionable and completely fair in their application...
But the fact that a lot of people feel the need to instantly jump those who say they like it as if they need to be "shown the light" is the issue.
Welcome to Sol Three, also refered to as 'Terra', or 'Earth'... The dominant species has a stange psychological need to enforce their viewpoint over that of a contrary viewpoint, because they feel they 'have a voice' and 'need to be heard'...
What you call an 'issue' is Human Nature... People will always go to bat for their team, and trash-talk the opposition. Doesn't matter if it's cars, food, films, religion, politics, watches, whatever it is, if someone disagrees with something someone says, they will likely feel the need to say something about it...
There are also others who rage against even the idea of the idea that we'd see AR Trek content makes them get the pitchforks.
Yes, because chances are, they dislike the JJ Movies, so don't want to see content from that alternate reality, contaminating the prime reality, which this game is supposed to be set in... There's always been discussions about the ownership and rights being the reason whay there won't be a particular costume/ship design from the recent movies in the game, so some of that rage/ranting, may simply be firmness on their belief that STO doesn't have licensing rights, so can't make the inclusions (and that being confused with a person's dislike of the JJ movies...)
I didn't say it was blameless either. None of the movies are. Even Wrath of Khan has its issues.
To be fair, you did say 'to get away from the stigma that people have pinned to it'... The implication there, is that you believe that it is the viewers who are pinning stigma, rather than the movie(s) having flaws which the viewers are then quite rightly calling out. You're absolutely right about the other movies having flaws, but that's also irrelevant, because we're not talking about those movies, and their flaws do not make ST 09 or Into Darkness' errors any more acceptable... It's like a child who gets in trouble, saying "well they did it too!"... So the teacher/parent then says "Well, yes, they did do it too, and I'll deal with them later, but for now, I'm dealing with you and what you did wrong..." The JJ films brought every criticism they receive, upon themself, through flaws in cinematography, directing, pacing and writing, so to suggest that it is the viewers 'pinning stigma', is more than a twd disingenuous When one pins the tail on the donkey, it is because the tail belongs on the donkey
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,114Community Moderator
And yet those people point at the previous movies as if they were holy. The reason I pointed out that they have flaws too is because Star Trek is no stranger to plot holes and flaws.
And it IS true that JJTrek is being used negatively, which could drive new people AWAY from Star Trek. Maybe someone's curious about it and wants to see the new movies. They might like them, but if they hear all this "bad stuff" about it they might not even GIVE IT A CHANCE TO STAND ON ITS OWN MERITS rather than compare to what came before as viewed by the "True Fans" who come across as purists who don't like change.
People should give things a chance rather than follow the pack mentality of shunning something without actually seeing it.
And yet those people point at the previous movies as if they were holy. The reason I pointed out that they have flaws too is because Star Trek is no stranger to plot holes and flaws.
And it IS true that JJTrek is being used negatively, which could drive new people AWAY from Star Trek. Maybe someone's curious about it and wants to see the new movies. They might like them, but if they hear all this "bad stuff" about it they might not even GIVE IT A CHANCE TO STAND ON ITS OWN MERITS rather than compare to what came before as viewed by the "True Fans" who come across as purists who don't like change.
People should give things a chance rather than follow the pack mentality of shunning something without actually seeing it.
Absolutely, some folks do hold them in that regard, as I mentioned, that's the type of 'clannishness' which Humanity ascribes to over any number of topics. What you're describing as 'an issue' is one of the most fundamentally basic Human behaviours...
It's being used negatively, because there is plenty in the movies to be negative about (some good things too) Let me put it this way: If someone is going to be put off because JJ directed it, it doesn't matter how it's refered to colloquially, they're not going to want to watch it anyway, it wouldn't matter what they were refered to, they still wouldn't want to watch them. Now, as I said before, the JJ movies are clearly set in a seperate reality from Classic Trek. That is an indisputable and unavoidable fact. It is even refered to in said movies, that it is a different reality. So, why should it not catagorized by it's most easily defining feature: The touch of JJ Abrams...
As mentioned upthread, the term is already part of the zeitgeist, the genie is not going back in the bottle, no matter how much you may feel it might still be possible to do so, or how unfair it might be...
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,114Community Moderator
Here's why JJtrek was never going to be the official name: No company wants to acknowledge that a universe they continue to use is heavily influenced by one man.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Here's why JJtrek was never going to be the official name: No company wants to acknowledge that a universe they continue to use is heavily influenced by one man.
*Cough* Lucasfilm *Cough*
Still, I'd just like to point out that in technicality, the attack on the Kelvin could have caused any and all sorts of chaos before the Narada even came, given time travel.
Like, let's assume everything up until the Kelvin's arrival was 100% exact to the prime universe. Fed tech ends up being different. Bigger ships, importantly. The Borg show up. What happens when the Borg and AR Feds end up in a fight? How might that affect First Contact?
I think you get the idea. With all the timeloops about, changing one thing in one time suddenly rewrites the whole universe.
Winning.
It's what I do. It's what I just did. It's what I'm about to do again. It's being undisputed emperor of an empire that cannot be disproved as the most powerful intergalactic empire in the entire universe; I always win, and everything I've won will definitely be won again... by me. It's my signature move, and thus, it's my signature. Problem, Sonic? Yeah, I mean you, Sonic, because you're being beat up, despite your being super. You can't even hit Shadow back, can you? Nope, he's too strong for you. Of course, I'm not Shadow, I'm the Super Emerald fueled fox that's pulling the strings; trust me, the fight would only be a few frames long if I were in it personally. Oh, and here's something for all you guys thinking you can win Last Post Wins 3.0; trust me, I'll be around a long while after the sun has already consumed the Earth while I sit out with the forum servers on Titan. Yes, I mean Titan... that comparatively little moon orbiting Saturn. It's a nice little place in a version of our solar system where the sun is a lot bigger. I mean, Mars will last longer than your precious Earth, but by then, it'll be one hot planet... and I figure Saturn's moon will be about the right temperate for a super-powered warlord. Oh, and trust me, I packed a lot of rings, and I mean a lot. Trillions, in fact, so I'll never run out of rings to power my super form. Besides, if I start to run out, I can just chaos control more rings into my reach. It's quite easy, really. You should try it. Granted, you'll never have the 7 Super Emeralds that I have in my possession, nor the Master Emerald that I've got hidden away somewhere... absorbed into my body thanks to Sonic logic, but whatever. I win. Again. I'm not kidding, either. Just check Last Post Wins, and if the last post isn't mine, it soon will be. Very, very soon. You can count on it. Seriously. By the way, if you're wondering, there's a really great Super Tails sprite sheet out there... somewhere... by some guy named shadow_91. These sprites are really great. Like, really good. Quality. Just like what I like to see in a sprite sheet. Also, credit to Joe T.E., his Sonic Battle style Super Sonic sprites have a great palette for a Super Sonic being beat up by Super Shadow, who's palette is from a Super Shadow sheet of unknown origin, but it turns out they were "borrowed" from a better sheet made by a certain Domenico. Oh, and the gif is actually a custom made super version of a similar gif, of which there are only 3 or 4 copies to be found by Google, and even then, evidently of an unknown source. Yep, it's one of those things. Stuff people have made, spread around, only for it to vanish and you to be the only person who still has a copy, not even knowing where it came from... like, literally at all. Oh, and anyone notice that Shadow's little chaos snap blast thingies are red and blue now? Yeah, I changed it. Problem, fans of purple? Yeah, I know you got a problem with that one, but you can just deal with it. After all, according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly... alright, alright, I'll spare you the entire Bee Movie script, just Google it if you want. By the way, ever wonder how your characters would've ended up if they evolved in another universe? Yeah, that. Think about it. Ok, so you probably didn't bother reading up to here, but whatever, here's a surprise for you guys over at ESD (RP) who were crazy enough to read this: Emperor Nat of the mcfreakin' Terran Empire is gonna be right all along! The universe is gonna go BOOM! *Thumbs up to the insanity*
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
Oh, look, an explosion...
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,114Community Moderator
Well... most likely the Federation would be a lot stronger than they were in the Prime timeline by the time of Wolf 359. And once again the Borg would be frustrated by how successfully the Federation resists them.
Perhaps the NeroVerse would be a more fitting and less controversial handle, afterall, it was his actions which (allegedly) caused (all) the divergence of historical events... ;p
Perhaps the NeroVerse would be a more fitting and less controversial handle, afterall, it was his actions which (allegedly) caused (all) the divergence of historical events... ;p
(STO Story Spoiler in There)
By extension, he only carried out those actions because the Hobus star was destroyed, which was destroyed by Iconians, and they only blew up the star because of Sela, so why not call it the SelaVerse?
That was sarcasm, by the way. Don't take that seriously.
In all seriousness though, that's actually not a bad idea.
Winning.
It's what I do. It's what I just did. It's what I'm about to do again. It's being undisputed emperor of an empire that cannot be disproved as the most powerful intergalactic empire in the entire universe; I always win, and everything I've won will definitely be won again... by me. It's my signature move, and thus, it's my signature. Problem, Sonic? Yeah, I mean you, Sonic, because you're being beat up, despite your being super. You can't even hit Shadow back, can you? Nope, he's too strong for you. Of course, I'm not Shadow, I'm the Super Emerald fueled fox that's pulling the strings; trust me, the fight would only be a few frames long if I were in it personally. Oh, and here's something for all you guys thinking you can win Last Post Wins 3.0; trust me, I'll be around a long while after the sun has already consumed the Earth while I sit out with the forum servers on Titan. Yes, I mean Titan... that comparatively little moon orbiting Saturn. It's a nice little place in a version of our solar system where the sun is a lot bigger. I mean, Mars will last longer than your precious Earth, but by then, it'll be one hot planet... and I figure Saturn's moon will be about the right temperate for a super-powered warlord. Oh, and trust me, I packed a lot of rings, and I mean a lot. Trillions, in fact, so I'll never run out of rings to power my super form. Besides, if I start to run out, I can just chaos control more rings into my reach. It's quite easy, really. You should try it. Granted, you'll never have the 7 Super Emeralds that I have in my possession, nor the Master Emerald that I've got hidden away somewhere... absorbed into my body thanks to Sonic logic, but whatever. I win. Again. I'm not kidding, either. Just check Last Post Wins, and if the last post isn't mine, it soon will be. Very, very soon. You can count on it. Seriously. By the way, if you're wondering, there's a really great Super Tails sprite sheet out there... somewhere... by some guy named shadow_91. These sprites are really great. Like, really good. Quality. Just like what I like to see in a sprite sheet. Also, credit to Joe T.E., his Sonic Battle style Super Sonic sprites have a great palette for a Super Sonic being beat up by Super Shadow, who's palette is from a Super Shadow sheet of unknown origin, but it turns out they were "borrowed" from a better sheet made by a certain Domenico. Oh, and the gif is actually a custom made super version of a similar gif, of which there are only 3 or 4 copies to be found by Google, and even then, evidently of an unknown source. Yep, it's one of those things. Stuff people have made, spread around, only for it to vanish and you to be the only person who still has a copy, not even knowing where it came from... like, literally at all. Oh, and anyone notice that Shadow's little chaos snap blast thingies are red and blue now? Yeah, I changed it. Problem, fans of purple? Yeah, I know you got a problem with that one, but you can just deal with it. After all, according to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly... alright, alright, I'll spare you the entire Bee Movie script, just Google it if you want. By the way, ever wonder how your characters would've ended up if they evolved in another universe? Yeah, that. Think about it. Ok, so you probably didn't bother reading up to here, but whatever, here's a surprise for you guys over at ESD (RP) who were crazy enough to read this: Emperor Nat of the mcfreakin' Terran Empire is gonna be right all along! The universe is gonna go BOOM! *Thumbs up to the insanity*
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,114Community Moderator
Perhaps the NeroVerse would be a more fitting and less controversial handle, afterall, it was his actions which (allegedly) caused (all) the divergence of historical events... ;p
(STO Story Spoiler in There)
By extension, he only carried out those actions because the Hobus star was destroyed, which was destroyed by Iconians, and they only blew up the star because of Sela, so why not call it the SelaVerse?
That was sarcasm, by the way. Don't take that seriously.
In all seriousness though, that's actually not a bad idea.
I guess that is true, Sela set the wheels in motion, but I think Nero still gets the credit for his actions afterwards
Lucasfilm is the name of the company. It's still the Star Wars universe to Disney.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Because none of the other shows or films were. Not even TOS which was all Gene to the same extent as the AR is all JJ.
And as I said above, all the other shows and films (other than those listed exceptions) were still the ongoing works set in one quantum reality. Sure, they were each writer's personal take on things, but they were still presented as continuations of the PrimeVerse, which the JJVerse, quite simply, is not, and even acknowledges such within the 09 Movie... As I said, you're making an apples and oranges comparison... Beyond may not be 'JJTrek', but it is still set in the JJVerse. And again, as mentioned, there are too many differences between that and the PrimeVerse to simply be acknowledged as being caused by Nero's incursion. Yes, that played a part, but not to that extent and that manner (ie technology, character ages etc) those are contrivances for the sake of the movie which should not have been affected by the Kelvin Incident, yet we're being asked to believe that they were... I can understand them wanting to through a different handle on it for the sake of the marketing, rather than calling it the JJVerse, but that IS what it is, and all the time people understand that term of reference, IMHO, it's a valid one...
That doesn't make any sense.
I buy that being in a new reality makes a new name necessary, but the most persistent AR in ST is the Mirror Universe, so called in and out of Universe because it's a mirror of the PR.
In universe TAR will be called The Kelvin Timeline for the same reason the Mirror Universe is called that in universe. Out of the universe there's still no reason to call it the JJVerse. JJ's vision has no large part in the third. There are still talks of a fourth in which he'll likely play an even lesser role if Beyond is a success.
And again, other shows (such as ENT) were massive departures and scene resets from what came before but ENT was always ENT, never the B&B verse, though it would have been by your reasoning.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'm still very confused by the separation between CBS and Paramount. The last reports I've read is Paramount forcing CBS to postpone the release of the new TV series 6 months to a year after the release of the film so fans aren't confused about about merchandise - that is Paramount wants a period of time to collect revenue from merchandise of their film.
Yet STO, owned by CBS, is now spewing out Paramount content DURING the release of the new film. It was appear the tensions seem to be easing or other business nonsense I'm not privy to.
But how can CBS have an official name for a universe it doesn't have the rights to?
CBS owns ALL trek - it just allows paramount to license certain parts of it, so they only 'own' it so long as their license lasts or doesn't get taken away from them for whatever reason
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Because none of the other shows or films were. Not even TOS which was all Gene to the same extent as the AR is all JJ.
And as I said above, all the other shows and films (other than those listed exceptions) were still the ongoing works set in one quantum reality. Sure, they were each writer's personal take on things, but they were still presented as continuations of the PrimeVerse, which the JJVerse, quite simply, is not, and even acknowledges such within the 09 Movie... As I said, you're making an apples and oranges comparison... Beyond may not be 'JJTrek', but it is still set in the JJVerse. And again, as mentioned, there are too many differences between that and the PrimeVerse to simply be acknowledged as being caused by Nero's incursion. Yes, that played a part, but not to that extent and that manner (ie technology, character ages etc) those are contrivances for the sake of the movie which should not have been affected by the Kelvin Incident, yet we're being asked to believe that they were... I can understand them wanting to through a different handle on it for the sake of the marketing, rather than calling it the JJVerse, but that IS what it is, and all the time people understand that term of reference, IMHO, it's a valid one...
That doesn't make any sense.
I buy that being in a new reality makes a new name necessary, but the most persistent AR in ST is the Mirror Universe, so called in and out of Universe because it's a mirror of the PR.
In universe TAR will be called The Kelvin Timeline for the same reason the Mirror Universe is called that in universe. Out of the universe there's still no reason to call it the JJVerse. JJ's vision has no large part in the third. There are still talks of a fourth in which he'll likely play an even lesser role if Beyond is a success.
And again, other shows (such as ENT) were massive departures and scene resets from what came before but ENT was always ENT, never the B&B verse, though it would have been by your reasoning.
I'm not sure what you think doesn't make sense about what I said... I agree, InVerse, no, they'd have no reason to refer to it as the JJVerse, but I would have thought that Alternate Reality (which still distinguishes from the specific Mirror Universe) would make the most sense. NeroVerse, I feel is more appropriate, as it was Nero's actions which caused the changes following the destruction of the Kelvin, but even from an InVerse perspective, while Starfleet analysts may isolate the Kelvin Incident as the point of divergence, I doubt they would adopt that name over 'Alternate Reality' (and as mentioned, there were things different in that reality which the destruction of the Kelvin would have had no impact on, but which were still different anyway, so Alternate Reality still makes the most sense... I'm not sure why you've mentioned Enterprise, because that ofcured before Nero's incursion, so utterly unaffected by that, and any other weirdness in that show, someone (I forget who) said can just be attributed to the Temporal Cold War
Some call it AR, others call it nutrek, people like me call it jjcrapverse/jjcraptrek everyone has their own name for it. i think i was the first one to coin that name "jjcrapverse" and it seems to of stuck.
The arrogance....
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I'm not sure what you think doesn't make sense about what I said... I agree, InVerse, no, they'd have no reason to refer to it as the JJVerse, but I would have thought that Alternate Reality (which still distinguishes from the specific Mirror Universe) would make the most sense. NeroVerse, I feel is more appropriate, as it was Nero's actions which caused the changes following the destruction of the Kelvin, but even from an InVerse perspective, while Starfleet analysts may isolate the Kelvin Incident as the point of divergence, I doubt they would adopt that name over 'Alternate Reality' (and as mentioned, there were things different in that reality which the destruction of the Kelvin would have had no impact on, but which were still different anyway, so Alternate Reality still makes the most sense... I'm not sure why you've mentioned Enterprise, because that occured before Nero's incursion, so utterly unaffected by that, and any other weirdness in that show, someone (I forget who) said can just be attributed to the Temporal Cold War
I think it actually would make sense in-universe to call it the Kelvin Timeline. The reason is that there are many known quantum realities, and calling one of them "the alternate reality" would not actually indicate which specific alternate reality is being referenced. The Mirror Universe is called that because the roles of the players in that reality's galactic politics are roughly inverted. It would make sense to call this one the Kelvin Timeline, because the attack on the USS Kelvin was the point of divergence between the two universes' timelines.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
In-universe does the Prime Universe know what happened to Spock and the Narada? Does the Abramsverse know where the Narada came from? (I don't think there is any on-screen indication that Nero and Spock know they have jumped to another universe and there isn't on-screen indication that Starfleet knows about the Prime Universe).
Neither universe knows of the other's existence so they wouldn't have names for each other.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
the prime universe is aware of the existence of the AR, at least in STO
But after Star Trek 2017 comes out STO might not be Prime Universe. It'll just be a non-canon product continuing its own universe (just as the Relaunch novels should do).
Comments
Crash like you i dont like the JJverse, but ive come to relise something, it may not be my trek, the trek i grew up with, but it is star trek and its the next generation of trekkies star trek.
Its the same thing when TNG came out, alot of old trekkies hated it because it was differnt, but it has become loved by the majority if not all trekkies, the same will be of the JJVerse aka Kelvin Timeline.
But the fact that a lot of people feel the need to instantly jump those who say they like it as if they need to be "shown the light" is the issue.
There are also others who rage against even the idea of the idea that we'd see AR Trek content makes them get the pitchforks.
I didn't say it was blameless either. None of the movies are. Even Wrath of Khan has its issues.
What you call an 'issue' is Human Nature... People will always go to bat for their team, and trash-talk the opposition. Doesn't matter if it's cars, food, films, religion, politics, watches, whatever it is, if someone disagrees with something someone says, they will likely feel the need to say something about it...
Yes, because chances are, they dislike the JJ Movies, so don't want to see content from that alternate reality, contaminating the prime reality, which this game is supposed to be set in... There's always been discussions about the ownership and rights being the reason whay there won't be a particular costume/ship design from the recent movies in the game, so some of that rage/ranting, may simply be firmness on their belief that STO doesn't have licensing rights, so can't make the inclusions (and that being confused with a person's dislike of the JJ movies...)
To be fair, you did say 'to get away from the stigma that people have pinned to it'... The implication there, is that you believe that it is the viewers who are pinning stigma, rather than the movie(s) having flaws which the viewers are then quite rightly calling out. You're absolutely right about the other movies having flaws, but that's also irrelevant, because we're not talking about those movies, and their flaws do not make ST 09 or Into Darkness' errors any more acceptable... It's like a child who gets in trouble, saying "well they did it too!"... So the teacher/parent then says "Well, yes, they did do it too, and I'll deal with them later, but for now, I'm dealing with you and what you did wrong..." The JJ films brought every criticism they receive, upon themself, through flaws in cinematography, directing, pacing and writing, so to suggest that it is the viewers 'pinning stigma', is more than a twd disingenuous
And it IS true that JJTrek is being used negatively, which could drive new people AWAY from Star Trek. Maybe someone's curious about it and wants to see the new movies. They might like them, but if they hear all this "bad stuff" about it they might not even GIVE IT A CHANCE TO STAND ON ITS OWN MERITS rather than compare to what came before as viewed by the "True Fans" who come across as purists who don't like change.
People should give things a chance rather than follow the pack mentality of shunning something without actually seeing it.
It's being used negatively, because there is plenty in the movies to be negative about (some good things too) Let me put it this way: If someone is going to be put off because JJ directed it, it doesn't matter how it's refered to colloquially, they're not going to want to watch it anyway, it wouldn't matter what they were refered to, they still wouldn't want to watch them. Now, as I said before, the JJ movies are clearly set in a seperate reality from Classic Trek. That is an indisputable and unavoidable fact. It is even refered to in said movies, that it is a different reality. So, why should it not catagorized by it's most easily defining feature: The touch of JJ Abrams...
As mentioned upthread, the term is already part of the zeitgeist, the genie is not going back in the bottle, no matter how much you may feel it might still be possible to do so, or how unfair it might be...
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
*Cough* Lucasfilm *Cough*
Still, I'd just like to point out that in technicality, the attack on the Kelvin could have caused any and all sorts of chaos before the Narada even came, given time travel.
Like, let's assume everything up until the Kelvin's arrival was 100% exact to the prime universe. Fed tech ends up being different. Bigger ships, importantly. The Borg show up. What happens when the Borg and AR Feds end up in a fight? How might that affect First Contact?
I think you get the idea. With all the timeloops about, changing one thing in one time suddenly rewrites the whole universe.
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
(STO Story Spoiler in There)
That was sarcasm, by the way. Don't take that seriously.
In all seriousness though, that's actually not a bad idea.
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
(yes, i know the guy's name is neo...still reminded me of the matrix)
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
That doesn't make any sense.
I buy that being in a new reality makes a new name necessary, but the most persistent AR in ST is the Mirror Universe, so called in and out of Universe because it's a mirror of the PR.
In universe TAR will be called The Kelvin Timeline for the same reason the Mirror Universe is called that in universe. Out of the universe there's still no reason to call it the JJVerse. JJ's vision has no large part in the third. There are still talks of a fourth in which he'll likely play an even lesser role if Beyond is a success.
And again, other shows (such as ENT) were massive departures and scene resets from what came before but ENT was always ENT, never the B&B verse, though it would have been by your reasoning.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Yet STO, owned by CBS, is now spewing out Paramount content DURING the release of the new film. It was appear the tensions seem to be easing or other business nonsense I'm not privy to.
But how can CBS have an official name for a universe it doesn't have the rights to?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I'm not sure what you think doesn't make sense about what I said... I agree, InVerse, no, they'd have no reason to refer to it as the JJVerse, but I would have thought that Alternate Reality (which still distinguishes from the specific Mirror Universe) would make the most sense. NeroVerse, I feel is more appropriate, as it was Nero's actions which caused the changes following the destruction of the Kelvin, but even from an InVerse perspective, while Starfleet analysts may isolate the Kelvin Incident as the point of divergence, I doubt they would adopt that name over 'Alternate Reality' (and as mentioned, there were things different in that reality which the destruction of the Kelvin would have had no impact on, but which were still different anyway, so Alternate Reality still makes the most sense... I'm not sure why you've mentioned Enterprise, because that ofcured before Nero's incursion, so utterly unaffected by that, and any other weirdness in that show, someone (I forget who) said can just be attributed to the Temporal Cold War
The arrogance....
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
I think it actually would make sense in-universe to call it the Kelvin Timeline. The reason is that there are many known quantum realities, and calling one of them "the alternate reality" would not actually indicate which specific alternate reality is being referenced. The Mirror Universe is called that because the roles of the players in that reality's galactic politics are roughly inverted. It would make sense to call this one the Kelvin Timeline, because the attack on the USS Kelvin was the point of divergence between the two universes' timelines.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Neither universe knows of the other's existence so they wouldn't have names for each other.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
But after Star Trek 2017 comes out STO might not be Prime Universe. It'll just be a non-canon product continuing its own universe (just as the Relaunch novels should do).