I have absolutely no problem with "social devices" as long as they are 100% opt-out. And no, I don't mean "spend large amount of currency on an option to nullify them", I mean a simple option in your game settings that even a brand new player with no currency can use. If that is the case, I have no issue with people having whatever device they want.
If this option would include that you also don't notice the effects of such devices, I would support it.
I have absolutely no problem with "social devices" as long as they are 100% opt-out. And no, I don't mean "spend large amount of currency on an option to nullify them", I mean a simple option in your game settings that even a brand new player with no currency can use. If that is the case, I have no issue with people having whatever device they want.
We have a winner.
/thread
One person's opinion doesn't /thread, not by a longshot. There are people here on both sides of the fence, and the point is worth discussing as long as people have something to add. I personally believe that there should be significant in-game monetary value associated with both the item and the opt-out.
Interesting... Maybe having a % chance for gear to lose a quality level? Such as a piece of epic gear going down to Ultra Rare quality?
While I do like this idea (since the cost to upgrade is so high, this would definitely be punishment), I would like to see something more immersive for the player. If an Admiral loses enough very resource-expensive ships, he would most likely be punished within the organization he's part of due to gross incompetence.
To me, it feels right for a player to be "Demoted" when he dies a certain number of times. Getting from 50-60 is a serious grind, so imagine how annoying it'd be to be bumped back down to level 59. It seems like the right amount of sting for playing the game poorly.
Your whole argument amounts to:
"You should be forced in to something unnecessary that you don't want to take part in because it amuses me, and if you don't like it then you should use your own resources to avoid it."
Sorry. That doesn't fly. You can dress it up all you want, but that's all your argument is.
I have absolutely no problem with "social devices" as long as they are 100% opt-out. And no, I don't mean "spend large amount of currency on an option to nullify them", I mean a simple option in your game settings that even a brand new player with no currency can use. If that is the case, I have no issue with people having whatever device they want.
If this option would include that you also don't notice the effects of such devices, I would support it.
Single-player STO?
Not single-player, you'd still play the actual game content with others. You just wouldn't notice their use of social devices.
I have absolutely no problem with "social devices" as long as they are 100% opt-out. And no, I don't mean "spend large amount of currency on an option to nullify them", I mean a simple option in your game settings that even a brand new player with no currency can use. If that is the case, I have no issue with people having whatever device they want.
If this option would include that you also don't notice the effects of such devices, I would support it.
Single-player STO?
Not single-player, you'd still play the actual game content with others. You just wouldn't notice their use of social devices.
He knows that. He just can't abide a world where he's not important. You WILL notice his cool TRIBBLE and you WILL conform to it. If you do not want to then you WILL have to spend a resource to stop it. He's special, duh.
I have absolutely no problem with "social devices" as long as they are 100% opt-out. And no, I don't mean "spend large amount of currency on an option to nullify them", I mean a simple option in your game settings that even a brand new player with no currency can use. If that is the case, I have no issue with people having whatever device they want.
We have a winner.
/thread
One person's opinion doesn't /thread, not by a longshot. There are people here on both sides of the fence, and the point is worth discussing as long as people have something to add. I personally believe that there should be significant in-game monetary value associated with both the item and the opt-out.
Interesting... Maybe having a % chance for gear to lose a quality level? Such as a piece of epic gear going down to Ultra Rare quality?
While I do like this idea (since the cost to upgrade is so high, this would definitely be punishment), I would like to see something more immersive for the player. If an Admiral loses enough very resource-expensive ships, he would most likely be punished within the organization he's part of due to gross incompetence.
To me, it feels right for a player to be "Demoted" when he dies a certain number of times. Getting from 50-60 is a serious grind, so imagine how annoying it'd be to be bumped back down to level 59. It seems like the right amount of sting for playing the game poorly.
Your whole argument amounts to:
"You should be forced in to something unnecessary that you don't want to take part in because it amuses me, and if you don't like it then you should use your own resources to avoid it."
Sorry. That doesn't fly. You can dress it up all you want, but that's all your argument is.
That's basically what the disco balls are doing though. I don't think we'll see more of such social devices. The fact that the nullifier has to be bought is probably a result of the devs not wanting to 'nerf' disco balls. I can imagine that, given the amount of discussion these devices have caused, the release of a new device would automatically give players an opt-out option.
I am commenting on development and game improvement. Some seem unable to keep on that track and are veering off into commenting on their own biases of fleets, which are not at all germane to this particular topic.
I don't think the game is improved by being able to outright ignore game-actions of other players in the game and in proximity to your own character.
well, the ideas aren't bad but here's some ideas to add more content
1. bring back the Diplomatic missions from the old versions but instead of rewarding Diplomatic points, they reward some unique goodies like some random goodies such as GPL/Refined Di/Lobi. Nothing really heavy but something to entice players to do these missions
2. More interior ship customization. All we get are bridge variants while the engineering and crew areas are all duplicates (unless you got the exclusive ship interiors like the Defiant/ToS/Interior exclusive ships. Why not have the interior areas like those of other series? I mean..why not a galaxy class interior like TNG? I just like to see more unique skin bridges and Visuals are the right path
3.Speed up the content releases, as they're a tad too slow. Not too fast as to flood us but not too slow as we get a chapter per month.
4. Give us more customization options and less ship lockboxes. We got a ton of these superships every lockbox but why not just more cosmetic items like uniforms, pets or even other things like introducing new playable races for the factions
5.Either Fix PVP or replace it with a better substitute that compensates PvPers.
1. bring back the Diplomatic missions from the old versions but instead of rewarding Diplomatic points, they reward some unique goodies like some random goodies such as GPL/Refined Di/Lobi. Nothing really heavy but something to entice players to do these missions
I like this but only if it's factional somehow. Used to be (in series canon at least) that factions competed for planets and resources and whatnot.
I am commenting on development and game improvement. Some seem unable to keep on that track and are veering off into commenting on their own biases of fleets, which are not at all germane to this particular topic.
I don't think the game is improved by being able to outright ignore game-actions of other players in the game and in proximity to your own character.
Why not? These devices have little added value in missions. 'Game actions' such as dropping a disco ball or using a special staff in social zones where no missions take place aren't important and should therefore include an option to be easily ignored if it annoys other players.
It's up to those other players to decide whether they want to be influenced by such devices or not.
I am commenting on development and game improvement. Some seem unable to keep on that track and are veering off into commenting on their own biases of fleets, which are not at all germane to this particular topic.
I don't think the game is improved by being able to outright ignore game-actions of other players in the game and in proximity to your own character.
I am commenting on the fact that you and your buddy's entire argument is "I want it, I don't care if you think it's annoying, if you think it's annoying then you need to spend resources to stop it, because my amusement is more important than anything else, even if it means you have to inconvenience yourself."
Your Fleet may be a clown fleet, and it may not be, I honestly don't care.
I am commenting on development and game improvement. Some seem unable to keep on that track and are veering off into commenting on their own biases of fleets, which are not at all germane to this particular topic.
I don't think the game is improved by being able to outright ignore game-actions of other players in the game and in proximity to your own character.
Why not? These devices have little added value in missions. 'Game actions' such as dropping a disco ball or using a special staff in social zones where no missions take place aren't important and should therefore include an option to be easily ignored if it annoys other players.
It's up to those other players to decide whether they want to be influenced by such devices or not.
I think that's an unfair and inexpert attempt to cast the suggestion in a particular way. There are already devices in game that can compel other character behavior, both in and out of combat.
I think we'll agree there's a lack of higher, near-endgame content, which may become clearer to you when you get there. I find the idea novel, and still went with someone else's suggestion that it become a GPL item. This topic is about this exact kind of constructive brainstorming.
I think that's an unfair and inexpert attempt to cast the suggestion in a particular way. There are already devices in game that can compel other character behavior, both in and out of combat.
Toss a tl;dr in there somewhere, because I'm not reading the entirety of a post that large over such a simple idea that, let's face it, will never be introduced into the game. Your military service has no bearing on STO and a fictional military organization set in a fictional universe hundreds of years into the fictional future. Not relevant.
I would agree that 1 billion ec is a fair price for the nagus staff, and perhaps, if a nullifier was added, it could be sold for somewhere in the 500m range, making it more accessible to more players not yet in the "billion plus" club.
As for those who will inevitably complain that 500m is outrageous: it's time to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and learn how to play the economy in STO. It's very easy to make a lot of ec as long as you have half a brain cell.
What's not being implemented? The "Nagus staff that forces salutes", or "my interpretation" of such?
And if the staff's not being implemented, why are you wasting bandwidth on it just a few dozen pixels beneath the dismissal of the idea?
The best forum posts do not need a TL-DR, they're designed to be as concise as possible, especially when debating a game-related proposal. So no TL-DR from me.
However, I can see how my earlier post can be confusing, so let me attempt to split the ramblings into two sections, the actual proposals and a lot of the logic behind them:
Proposals:
1. Reference, but not mandate strict, adherence to the 20th/21st century traditions behind the salute, I mean, it's not like Starfleet's not doing a bang-up job of ripping off U.S.S., the rank structure, and a few other things of the 20th/21st century United States Military.
2. As such, while tradition calls for "no need for equal ranks to salute each other", obviously a "forced saluter" staff would "toss this part of the tradition on it's backside", since, as proposed, it would force all in range of the effect to render a salute.
3. Since the "disco ball" has established precedent of "user affected as well", it's only obvious that this new staff should have an effect on the user. Fortunately, the effect (salute) fits 100% into the "tradition" that the staff seeks to "borrow from" - once saluted the salutee returns said salute.
4. Proposal attempts to place a "penalty" on the device necessary to "opt-out" of this exchange. However, if this item is intended to showcase "extreme in-game superiority", would not any penalties better be placed on the "superior user" than the "common rabble"?
4.5 In keeping with the aforementioned "attempt to adhere with tradition", if the user of this staff generates 30 salutes, the user has to return 30 salutes. And, since each salute was rendered by an individual, the return salute(s) should best be rendered individually to each saluting individual. Being stuck in one "area" for the duration of the appropriate individual salute animations, IMO, may be appropriate enough "penalty" to the superior user instead of a speed penalty.
5. Proposal is generating a price-request, spelled out in greater detail above. I counter that precedent in pricing of the opt out device has already been set, and that if the opt-outs are not rolled into one device, sticking within the realms of the earlier set prices.
Now, the personal stuff:
You started ticking me off by referring to me as a "lesser" player if I could not immediately afford the staff. You then proceeded to tick off the part of me that's a veteran by attempting to subvert a "fairly important" military tradition originally intended to demonstrate respect into a "minor flaunting of game superiority". You're pushing me real hard with the casual dismissals, statements of irrelevance, and commentary on my intelligence or dedication to the game because I'm nowhere near as "space rich" as you.
Still, despite this, I'm not one to go "you know what, this Nabreeki fellow's just a stupid troll that only has that "half brain cell" necessary to generate wads of EC in a game - and an ego so big that he doesn't care about anything else."
I think that a... productive... give and take can come from this, so that you can have your "little ego boost" of being able to "force" people to salute you while still respecting the traditions behind it as much as possible without blowing your entire idea out of the water.
Such as this little... educational... piece, heavily basterdized but gets the minimal amount of point across
The tradition behind the salute, at least in the 20th/21st century, is intended as a "demonstration of respect" to the rank / station of the saluted. Hence why the tradition calls for the "lower ranked" individual to initiate the exchange - at a minimum, this salute is saying "To you of higher rank/station than me, I salute your position and the amount of work it took to reach that point before me". The higher ranking person then returns the salute, again saying, at a bare minimum, "I respect the fact that you're still here despite all the TRIBBLE you get".
Who cares if the two people absolutely despise each other, the tradition calls for the exchange and showing of respect "to the job", not the individual.
And if this was the case - fine. "Basterdize" it for your "in game superiority trip" all you want. However, as those of us who have served will tell you, in many many cases the salute quickly goes from "I'm saluting your job" to "I'm saluting you as an actual, unique individual". Both ways, I've had a Captain that proudly returned my salutes not because he had to, but he respected me for what I was doing with him.
And "Basterdizing" this doesn't sit well with me, and as at least one other poster in this thread opined, him either.
Also, as I mentioned earlier - since the tradition ultimately salutes a rank, if you're equal rank, who's supposed to be initiating the salute by saying "To you of higher rank..." and thereby receive the "I respect you for putting up..."? Thusly, no exchange of salutes is mandated.
And if you're not paying attention, this should be the "opt-out" of a forced saluter, not some item that "costs" and requires "effort" to attain...
One parting shot, as it were: The antics of "Starfleet Dental" has lowered my respect of any individual that bears this fleet tag to something just above "oh, they still let him play/post"? The sudden shift from "Socialist/communist poster themed" signatures to the "animated tie-dye" / "borderline seizure inducing color blink" signatures has, if it's at all possible, lowered said lack of respect to even lower depths. However, while I'm real quick to "begin" at a point of... respect... that I feel is "due" a member of Dental (Read: None) - demonstrated actions can improve this for both the individual and the fleet as a whole, at least with me.
Shall we strive to make these walls of text a little less necessary by striving to show a mutual respect for each other's backgrounds? Or is this going to draw another batch of "TL-DR please, it's all irrelevant" which would then most likely shift my stance into "and you need this staff why?", with a large soapbox visit from atop the anti-Dental bandwagon...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Constructive brainstorming would be ideas for content that players can *choose* to participate in, if they *want* to do so. Again, I have no issue with that. However, NON constructive brainstorming would be ideas for ways to *force* other players to do something against their will. So there is a clear difference between constructive and NON constructive ideas being presented.
I think that's an unfair and inexpert attempt to cast the suggestion in a particular way. There are already devices in game that can compel other character behavior, both in and out of combat.
I think we'll agree there's a lack of higher, near-endgame content, which may become clearer to you when you get there. I find the idea novel, and still went with someone else's suggestion that it become a GPL item. This topic is about this exact kind of constructive brainstorming.
None of these devices that can be used in missions and that influence another player's behaviour are as ego-centric as a Staff that makes other players turn to salute you though. Unless I'm unaware of the existence of something similar to that, I may not be familiar with all different devices but I'm fairly sure such a thing doesn't exist. Thankfully.
Anyway, since it seems unlikely we'll agree, let's just agree to disagree. I've got real life stuff to attend to anyway and I don't think we can make our opinions on the matter more clear without it turning into a yes/no kind of discussion.
Toss a tl;dr in there somewhere, because I'm not reading the entirety of a post that large over such a simple idea that, let's face it, will never be introduced into the game. Your military service has no bearing on STO and a fictional military organization set in a fictional universe hundreds of years into the fictional future. Not relevant.
I would agree that 1 billion ec is a fair price for the nagus staff, and perhaps, if a nullifier was added, it could be sold for somewhere in the 500m range, making it more accessible to more players not yet in the "billion plus" club.
As for those who will inevitably complain that 500m is outrageous: it's time to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and learn how to play the economy in STO. It's very easy to make a lot of ec as long as you have half a brain cell.
What's not being implemented? The "Nagus staff that forces salutes", or "my interpretation" of such?
And if the staff's not being implemented, why are you wasting bandwidth on it just a few dozen pixels beneath the dismissal of the idea?
The best forum posts do not need a TL-DR, they're designed to be as concise as possible, especially when debating a game-related proposal. So no TL-DR from me.
However, I can see how my earlier post can be confusing, so let me attempt to split the ramblings into two sections, the actual proposals and a lot of the logic behind them:
Proposals:
1. Reference, but not mandate strict, adherence to the 20th/21st century traditions behind the salute, I mean, it's not like Starfleet's not doing a bang-up job of ripping off U.S.S., the rank structure, and a few other things of the 20th/21st century United States Military.
2. As such, while tradition calls for "no need for equal ranks to salute each other", obviously a "forced saluter" staff would "toss this part of the tradition on it's backside", since, as proposed, it would force all in range of the effect to render a salute.
3. Since the "disco ball" has established precedent of "user affected as well", it's only obvious that this new staff should have an effect on the user. Fortunately, the effect (salute) fits 100% into the "tradition" that the staff seeks to "borrow from" - once saluted the salutee returns said salute.
4. Proposal attempts to place a "penalty" on the device necessary to "opt-out" of this exchange. However, if this item is intended to showcase "extreme in-game superiority", would not any penalties better be placed on the "superior user" than the "common rabble"?
4.5 In keeping with the aforementioned "attempt to adhere with tradition", if the user of this staff generates 30 salutes, the user has to return 30 salutes. And, since each salute was rendered by an individual, the return salute(s) should best be rendered individually to each saluting individual. Being stuck in one "area" for the duration of the appropriate individual salute animations, IMO, may be appropriate enough "penalty" to the superior user instead of a speed penalty.
5. Proposal is generating a price-request, spelled out in greater detail above. I counter that precedent in pricing of the opt out device has already been set, and that if the opt-outs are not rolled into one device, sticking within the realms of the earlier set prices.
Now, the personal stuff:
You started ticking me off by referring to me as a "lesser" player if I could not immediately afford the staff. You then proceeded to tick off the part of me that's a veteran by attempting to subvert a "fairly important" military tradition originally intended to demonstrate respect into a "minor flaunting of game superiority". You're pushing me real hard with the casual dismissals, statements of irrelevance, and commentary on my intelligence or dedication to the game because I'm nowhere near as "space rich" as you.
Still, despite this, I'm not one to go "you know what, this Nabreeki fellow's just a stupid troll that only has that "half brain cell" necessary to generate wads of EC in a game - and an ego so big that he doesn't care about anything else."
I think that a... productive... give and take can come from this, so that you can have your "little ego boost" of being able to "force" people to salute you while still respecting the traditions behind it as much as possible without blowing your entire idea out of the water.
Such as this little... educational... piece, heavily basterdized but gets the minimal amount of point across
The tradition behind the salute, at least in the 20th/21st century, is intended as a "demonstration of respect" to the rank / station of the saluted. Hence why the tradition calls for the "lower ranked" individual to initiate the exchange - at a minimum, this salute is saying "To you of higher rank/station than me, I salute your position and the amount of work it took to reach that point before me". The higher ranking person then returns the salute, again saying, at a bare minimum, "I respect the fact that you're still here despite all the TRIBBLE you get".
Who cares if the two people absolutely despise each other, the tradition calls for the exchange and showing of respect "to the job", not the individual.
And if this was the case - fine. "Basterdize" it for your "in game superiority trip" all you want. However, as those of us who have served will tell you, in many many cases the salute quickly goes from "I'm saluting your job" to "I'm saluting you as an actual, unique individual". Both ways, I've had a Captain that proudly returned my salutes not because he had to, but he respected me for what I was doing with him.
And "Basterdizing" this doesn't sit well with me, and as at least one other poster in this thread opined, him either.
Also, as I mentioned earlier - since the tradition ultimately salutes a rank, if you're equal rank, who's supposed to be initiating the salute by saying "To you of higher rank..." and thereby receive the "I respect you for putting up..."? Thusly, no exchange of salutes is mandated.
And if you're not paying attention, this should be the "opt-out" of a forced saluter, not some item that "costs" and requires "effort" to attain...
One parting shot, as it were: The antics of "Starfleet Dental" has lowered my respect of any individual that bears this fleet tag to something just above "oh, they still let him play/post"? The sudden shift from "Socialist/communist poster themed" signatures to the "animated tie-dye" / "borderline seizure inducing color blink" signatures has, if it's at all possible, lowered said lack of respect to even lower depths. However, while I'm real quick to "begin" at a point of... respect... that I feel is "due" a member of Dental (Read: None) - demonstrated actions can improve this for both the individual and the fleet as a whole, at least with me.
Shall we strive to make these walls of text a little less necessary by striving to show a mutual respect for each other's backgrounds? Or is this going to draw another batch of "TL-DR please, it's all irrelevant" which would then most likely shift my stance into "and you need this staff why?", with a large soapbox visit from atop the anti-Dental bandwagon...
Anyway, since it seems unlikely we'll agree, let's just agree to disagree. I've got real life stuff to attend to anyway and I don't think we can make our opinions on the matter more clear without it turning into a yes/no kind of discussion.
The upside of the forum format is that it remains here for when you choose to participate in making the game better, and discussion does not pause.
Edit: Ugh. I really need to get to the bottom of this post-quoting issue.
Comments
Single-player STO?
Now you've done it.
Your whole argument amounts to:
"You should be forced in to something unnecessary that you don't want to take part in because it amuses me, and if you don't like it then you should use your own resources to avoid it."
Sorry. That doesn't fly. You can dress it up all you want, but that's all your argument is.
Not single-player, you'd still play the actual game content with others. You just wouldn't notice their use of social devices.
He knows that. He just can't abide a world where he's not important. You WILL notice his cool TRIBBLE and you WILL conform to it. If you do not want to then you WILL have to spend a resource to stop it. He's special, duh.
That's basically what the disco balls are doing though. I don't think we'll see more of such social devices. The fact that the nullifier has to be bought is probably a result of the devs not wanting to 'nerf' disco balls. I can imagine that, given the amount of discussion these devices have caused, the release of a new device would automatically give players an opt-out option.
I don't think the game is improved by being able to outright ignore game-actions of other players in the game and in proximity to your own character.
1. bring back the Diplomatic missions from the old versions but instead of rewarding Diplomatic points, they reward some unique goodies like some random goodies such as GPL/Refined Di/Lobi. Nothing really heavy but something to entice players to do these missions
2. More interior ship customization. All we get are bridge variants while the engineering and crew areas are all duplicates (unless you got the exclusive ship interiors like the Defiant/ToS/Interior exclusive ships. Why not have the interior areas like those of other series? I mean..why not a galaxy class interior like TNG? I just like to see more unique skin bridges and Visuals are the right path
3.Speed up the content releases, as they're a tad too slow. Not too fast as to flood us but not too slow as we get a chapter per month.
4. Give us more customization options and less ship lockboxes. We got a ton of these superships every lockbox but why not just more cosmetic items like uniforms, pets or even other things like introducing new playable races for the factions
5.Either Fix PVP or replace it with a better substitute that compensates PvPers.
That's what I think what can help it out
I like this but only if it's factional somehow. Used to be (in series canon at least) that factions competed for planets and resources and whatnot.
Why not? These devices have little added value in missions. 'Game actions' such as dropping a disco ball or using a special staff in social zones where no missions take place aren't important and should therefore include an option to be easily ignored if it annoys other players.
It's up to those other players to decide whether they want to be influenced by such devices or not.
I am commenting on the fact that you and your buddy's entire argument is "I want it, I don't care if you think it's annoying, if you think it's annoying then you need to spend resources to stop it, because my amusement is more important than anything else, even if it means you have to inconvenience yourself."
Your Fleet may be a clown fleet, and it may not be, I honestly don't care.
Wholeheartedly agree.
I think we'll agree there's a lack of higher, near-endgame content, which may become clearer to you when you get there. I find the idea novel, and still went with someone else's suggestion that it become a GPL item. This topic is about this exact kind of constructive brainstorming.
Since when does precedent make right?
What's not being implemented? The "Nagus staff that forces salutes", or "my interpretation" of such?
And if the staff's not being implemented, why are you wasting bandwidth on it just a few dozen pixels beneath the dismissal of the idea?
The best forum posts do not need a TL-DR, they're designed to be as concise as possible, especially when debating a game-related proposal. So no TL-DR from me.
However, I can see how my earlier post can be confusing, so let me attempt to split the ramblings into two sections, the actual proposals and a lot of the logic behind them:
Proposals:
1. Reference, but not mandate strict, adherence to the 20th/21st century traditions behind the salute, I mean, it's not like Starfleet's not doing a bang-up job of ripping off U.S.S., the rank structure, and a few other things of the 20th/21st century United States Military.
2. As such, while tradition calls for "no need for equal ranks to salute each other", obviously a "forced saluter" staff would "toss this part of the tradition on it's backside", since, as proposed, it would force all in range of the effect to render a salute.
3. Since the "disco ball" has established precedent of "user affected as well", it's only obvious that this new staff should have an effect on the user. Fortunately, the effect (salute) fits 100% into the "tradition" that the staff seeks to "borrow from" - once saluted the salutee returns said salute.
4. Proposal attempts to place a "penalty" on the device necessary to "opt-out" of this exchange. However, if this item is intended to showcase "extreme in-game superiority", would not any penalties better be placed on the "superior user" than the "common rabble"?
4.5 In keeping with the aforementioned "attempt to adhere with tradition", if the user of this staff generates 30 salutes, the user has to return 30 salutes. And, since each salute was rendered by an individual, the return salute(s) should best be rendered individually to each saluting individual. Being stuck in one "area" for the duration of the appropriate individual salute animations, IMO, may be appropriate enough "penalty" to the superior user instead of a speed penalty.
5. Proposal is generating a price-request, spelled out in greater detail above. I counter that precedent in pricing of the opt out device has already been set, and that if the opt-outs are not rolled into one device, sticking within the realms of the earlier set prices.
Now, the personal stuff:
You started ticking me off by referring to me as a "lesser" player if I could not immediately afford the staff. You then proceeded to tick off the part of me that's a veteran by attempting to subvert a "fairly important" military tradition originally intended to demonstrate respect into a "minor flaunting of game superiority". You're pushing me real hard with the casual dismissals, statements of irrelevance, and commentary on my intelligence or dedication to the game because I'm nowhere near as "space rich" as you.
Still, despite this, I'm not one to go "you know what, this Nabreeki fellow's just a stupid troll that only has that "half brain cell" necessary to generate wads of EC in a game - and an ego so big that he doesn't care about anything else."
I think that a... productive... give and take can come from this, so that you can have your "little ego boost" of being able to "force" people to salute you while still respecting the traditions behind it as much as possible without blowing your entire idea out of the water.
Such as this little... educational... piece, heavily basterdized but gets the minimal amount of point across
The tradition behind the salute, at least in the 20th/21st century, is intended as a "demonstration of respect" to the rank / station of the saluted. Hence why the tradition calls for the "lower ranked" individual to initiate the exchange - at a minimum, this salute is saying "To you of higher rank/station than me, I salute your position and the amount of work it took to reach that point before me". The higher ranking person then returns the salute, again saying, at a bare minimum, "I respect the fact that you're still here despite all the TRIBBLE you get".
Who cares if the two people absolutely despise each other, the tradition calls for the exchange and showing of respect "to the job", not the individual.
And if this was the case - fine. "Basterdize" it for your "in game superiority trip" all you want. However, as those of us who have served will tell you, in many many cases the salute quickly goes from "I'm saluting your job" to "I'm saluting you as an actual, unique individual". Both ways, I've had a Captain that proudly returned my salutes not because he had to, but he respected me for what I was doing with him.
And "Basterdizing" this doesn't sit well with me, and as at least one other poster in this thread opined, him either.
Also, as I mentioned earlier - since the tradition ultimately salutes a rank, if you're equal rank, who's supposed to be initiating the salute by saying "To you of higher rank..." and thereby receive the "I respect you for putting up..."? Thusly, no exchange of salutes is mandated.
And if you're not paying attention, this should be the "opt-out" of a forced saluter, not some item that "costs" and requires "effort" to attain...
One parting shot, as it were: The antics of "Starfleet Dental" has lowered my respect of any individual that bears this fleet tag to something just above "oh, they still let him play/post"? The sudden shift from "Socialist/communist poster themed" signatures to the "animated tie-dye" / "borderline seizure inducing color blink" signatures has, if it's at all possible, lowered said lack of respect to even lower depths. However, while I'm real quick to "begin" at a point of... respect... that I feel is "due" a member of Dental (Read: None) - demonstrated actions can improve this for both the individual and the fleet as a whole, at least with me.
Shall we strive to make these walls of text a little less necessary by striving to show a mutual respect for each other's backgrounds? Or is this going to draw another batch of "TL-DR please, it's all irrelevant" which would then most likely shift my stance into "and you need this staff why?", with a large soapbox visit from atop the anti-Dental bandwagon...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
That's my favorite gif of all.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
None of these devices that can be used in missions and that influence another player's behaviour are as ego-centric as a Staff that makes other players turn to salute you though. Unless I'm unaware of the existence of something similar to that, I may not be familiar with all different devices but I'm fairly sure such a thing doesn't exist. Thankfully.
Anyway, since it seems unlikely we'll agree, let's just agree to disagree. I've got real life stuff to attend to anyway and I don't think we can make our opinions on the matter more clear without it turning into a yes/no kind of discussion.
My man.
The upside of the forum format is that it remains here for when you choose to participate in making the game better, and discussion does not pause.
Edit: Ugh. I really need to get to the bottom of this post-quoting issue.
Wrong series.