I didn't mean the bottom unlock tracks, I meant new additions to main trees like Long-range Sensors or Coordination protocols. Otherwise, let's see a standard cookie-cutter build... 6 pips in everything power=36 pips, versus 5 picks in the new system (54 vs 9 if you go for 100 skill) Exactly half in other words, torp and energy crit skills combined, and in OP case "free" flowcaps even if what you're really after is insulators. It might be you never ever use them, but you didn't spend any extra picks on them either.
I know you didn't, but my point was that your total number of picks for the given number of options is still the same comparatively. You don't get 'free' stuff because they're bundled together, if anything you get 'less freedom' to put the points were you want to.
If we were to split up those bundles, keep the new skills added (like Long-range Sensors) and the removed skills removed (like Sensors) and adjusted the available points totals accordingly, you could easily have the precise same build options but you're no longer tied to effectively wasting points on something you won't use. So hey, if you wanted drain resist, you wouldn't be forced into wasted flow caps points at the same time. Ultimately this is just a massive waste in efficiency of point distribution.
What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
Stop new content until quality returns
This is the last I intend to say on the topic for now...*snip*
Ok, this makes sense to me. Last thought on the subject is that if you want to make the leech not a *best in slot* console, either it has to stop adding subsystem power at all (because even a mere +8 to all systems is still amazing), or it has to take up a tactical console slot or something like that. Otherwise, it is still better than every other available option.
Back to bugs and whatnot...does everyone realize that some racial traits, specifically Joined Trill, now do nothing with the new skill tree in place?
So when I copied my character to test, noticed that my shield regeneration went from 223 every 6 seconds to 334. This was before I had allocated any points into anything. Did anyone else notice something like this?
"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie" - The Doctor
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" -Agatha Heterodyne
Buying all 9 points in engineering skills for improved power from subsytems, running UR ZPEM (+2.1 all; +234 DrainX) and UR BNGP (+2.4 all), on a Fleet T'varo T6, which grants +10 Wep and Eng power. And a W->S Core. Setting weapon to 100, Aux to 30, and everything else at minimum base of 15..because that's all the power warbirds get. With 3 Epic Embassy Sci consoles (+37.5 DrainX each) my subsystems rest at 125, 51, 52, 55. With that DrainX, Leech pulls a max of 19.2 energy at 8 stacks. 1 pt shy of giving AMP bonus to AUX power...so AMP only exists while WP stays above 75, which isn't even constant with 284% PTR, which takes a hit with the new skill revamp also (Down from 298% on Holodeck); I just don't know where the hit comes from. So, I'm not sure where you're getting 'Get 3 of the 4 possible AMPs' from, when the reality is getting it from 1 subsystem, and only then while it stays at or above 75.
The tradeoff for the power isn't SRO. I can easily fly my Recluse and I don't suffer that power problem, yet keep my SRO boffs. The tradeoff as stated when LOR was released was -40 subsystem power and lower base resists to balance the Singularity clickies...of which only Warp Shadows is remotely useful and certainly not worth what Romulans give up for it.
Do I think they'll reverse the drain decision? No. But I would like them to consider revising the subsystem power discrepancy that warbirds have.
For instance, ALL of my builds rely very heavily on Insulators, drain resistance is just as important and great to have as straight up damage resistance. But many of my builds have absolutely ZERO points in Flow capacitors... because if i'm not running a drain build or the infamous "Plasmonic Leech" it is of absolutely no use to me, and those are valuble points that I'm otherwise free to spend elsewhere.
This revamp kind of eliminates that freedom of choice.
Trying to see a negative aspect to your "problem" and for some reason, I can't find one. You used to spend let's say 9 old points into insulators and 0 on flow caps and now you spend 3 new points to get the same benefit plus some drain skill if you ever need it.
Buying all 9 points in engineering skills for improved power from subsytems, running UR ZPEM (+2.1 all; +234 DrainX) and UR BNGP (+2.4 all), on a Fleet T'varo T6, which grants +10 Wep and Eng power. And a W->S Core. Setting weapon to 100, Aux to 30, and everything else at minimum base of 15..because that's all the power warbirds get. With 3 Epic Embassy Sci consoles (+37.5 DrainX each) my subsystems rest at 125, 51, 52, 55. With that DrainX, Leech pulls a max of 19.2 energy at 8 stacks. 1 pt shy of giving AMP bonus to AUX power...so AMP only exists while WP stays above 75, which isn't even constant with 284% PTR, which takes a hit with the new skill revamp also (Down from 298% on Holodeck); I just don't know where the hit comes from. So, I'm not sure where you're getting 'Get 3 of the 4 possible AMPs' from, when the reality is getting it from 1 subsystem, and only then while it stays at or above 75.
The tradeoff for the power isn't SRO. I can easily fly my Recluse and I don't suffer that power problem, yet keep my SRO boffs. The tradeoff as stated when LOR was released was -40 subsystem power and lower base resists to balance the Singularity clickies...of which only Warp Shadows is remotely useful and certainly not worth what Romulans give up for it.
Do I think they'll reverse the drain decision? No. But I would like them to consider revising the subsystem power discrepancy that warbirds have.
Singularity core powers are a lot weaker then they use to be so honestly, they should go back to -20 that they changed it to in LOR beta then changed it back to -40. Unless they plan on buffing singularity cores in general, which aren't as good as warp cores.
Back to bugs and whatnot...does everyone realize that some racial traits, specifically Joined Trill, now do nothing with the new skill tree in place?
I care. I specifically paid for being able to create a Joined Trill just for the sci bonuses. It's my alt sci toon and I specced it to be way more sci focused than my PvP toon. I thought those sci bonuses were the whole selling point of a Joined Trill, otherwise, I'd just use a regular Trill captain.
Heck, I paid for a Ferasan as a ground focused toon. That pretty much went down the drain with the new skill tree since there won't be any real difference between my toons ground wise now except the Ferasan is extra dodgy and jumps higher.
Back to bugs and whatnot...does everyone realize that some racial traits, specifically Joined Trill, now do nothing with the new skill tree in place?
I care. I specifically paid for being able to create a Joined Trill just for the sci bonuses. It's my alt sci toon and I specced it to be way more sci focused than my PvP toon. I thought those sci bonuses were the whole selling point of a Joined Trill, otherwise, I'd just use a regular Trill captain.
Heck, I paid for a Ferasan as a ground focused toon. That pretty much went down the drain with the new skill tree since there won't be any real difference between my toons ground wise now except the Ferasan is extra dodgy and jumps higher.
yah join trill need fixing. As well in my opinion lib borg need a different trait, or change the way that trait works. Hell all racial abilities need changes that help both ground and space. Do they all need to be romulan trait amazing no. But something interesting for both space and ground.
Back to bugs and whatnot...does everyone realize that some racial traits, specifically Joined Trill, now do nothing with the new skill tree in place?
I care. I specifically paid for being able to create a Joined Trill just for the sci bonuses. It's my alt sci toon and I specced it to be way more sci focused than my PvP toon. I thought those sci bonuses were the whole selling point of a Joined Trill, otherwise, I'd just use a regular Trill captain.
Heck, I paid for a Ferasan as a ground focused toon. That pretty much went down the drain with the new skill tree since there won't be any real difference between my toons ground wise now except the Ferasan is extra dodgy and jumps higher.
I'd noticed the Joined Trill thing as well and assumed it was a display bug similar to various gear, etc, the still show the wrong skills. Until they re-add the skill summary status page, it would be hard to tell exactly what bonuses, if any, they are getting. I suppose you could check the differences between two otherwise identical characters.
re: ground skills. I suspect again that my character design strategies fit very nicely with the new skill revamp, and still show some differences. My kdf eng focused mostly on being as hard to kill as possible ( 9 points in shields, repair, willpower, armor, weapons and demolitions, iirc. and yes, it was well over 66000 pts) This translated well into the new ground skills. 2 points in weapon damage, 2 in HPs, 2 in Shields, 2 in Armor, and 2 in Kit mastery. So a total net gain over my old character.. he can now use all his kit abilities at full effectiveness, and still has the tanky feel.
My fed sci, however, went more offense, with weaker armor/etc, but more into kit abilities. So 4pts in weapons, 4 in Kit mastery ( undecided yet on if the recharge reduction is worth it. more testing is needed ), and 2 somewhere in defenses. I'm still tinkering with this, and this character was never fully mature even on Holodeck, so harder to tell. But the feel is definitely different. a bit more glass-cannon.
Is the effect on the range of powers like Gravity Well from Control Expertise different than from Graviton Generators?
I dunno, but the pull distance (GWIII) to the amount of foes it grabs to it's hold effect is most defiantly way less then it used to be (and I didn't have any points spec'd into subspace decompiler)... And Fleet Particle Focus consoles don't have much effect in buffing it up. It's very noticeable on my Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer, and crippling enough that I think I have to completely write that build off - 5 months of wasted time with experimenting with all sorts of science abilities, and figuring out what I wanted to do with that build. Well, on the good side I now know I can safely scrap my plans for what I was going to grind out reputation wise for it... And I have some other builds that still look viable.
nothing that boosts the control skill will boost grav well's pull because it isn't registering the control skill at all - it'll be fixed in a future tribble patch
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I didn't mean the bottom unlock tracks, I meant new additions to main trees like Long-range Sensors or Coordination protocols. Otherwise, let's see a standard cookie-cutter build... 6 pips in everything power=36 pips, versus 5 picks in the new system (54 vs 9 if you go for 100 skill) Exactly half in other words, torp and energy crit skills combined, and in OP case "free" flowcaps even if what you're really after is insulators. It might be you never ever use them, but you didn't spend any extra picks on them either.
I know you didn't, but my point was that your total number of picks for the given number of options is still the same comparatively. You don't get 'free' stuff because they're bundled together, if anything you get 'less freedom' to put the points were you want to.
Yes, ratios are the same, so what? There's more "total buffness" in the new system because of new skills and most bundlings are fairly logical (that is, if you want one, you are likely to want the other.)
Arguing this is not an overall buff (that is, that one pick isn't better than 3 pips) is like arguing that half a glass and half a 2-liter bottle are the same thing because both are halves of something.
If we were to split up those bundles, keep the new skills added (like Long-range Sensors) and the removed skills removed (like Sensors) and adjusted the available points totals accordingly, you could easily have the precise same build options but you're no longer tied to effectively wasting points on something you won't use. So hey, if you wanted drain resist, you wouldn't be forced into wasted flow caps points at the same time. Ultimately this is just a massive waste in efficiency of point distribution.
But that's not comparing the old system with the new, that's comparing the new system with a hypothetical one with both old skills unbundled and new ones added and more points. Such a system would be indeed more freeform. It would also be more complex with more potential for costly "newb errors" and one of the goals of the revamp is reducing those...
I've compiled a list of observations based around my Tactical captain and their T6 Fleet Defiant in my attempts to replicate my build between Holodeck and Tribble. I did the best I could and these are the results I've noticed more directly.
Defense Holodeck: 101 Tribble: 93.5
Note: An 8 point loss. As I haven't actually tested it, I can't say if the lower value on Tribble is intended to hard-cap at 100 or exceed it. If the former is true, then this shouldn't change my dodge chances. But if the latter is true, I'm probably going to worry about dying a bit more often.
Hull Integrity Holodeck: 61202 Tribble: 54560
Note: Did not select an unlock at 10 eng. I probably could have matched my Holodeck hull cap, but I only had 1 point in Hull Capacity on Tribble. This is the largest difference so far. A bit more squishy than before. Unless of course I grab that hull cap unlock, the Bulkhead Technician space trait, or the Fortified Hull reputation trait.
Shields Holodeck: 12523 Tribble: 12399
Note: I probably could have matched my Holodeck value, but I sacrificed that third level of Shield Capacity. Not a big deal given my ship is an escort and its shield modifier is weak anyway. There's also space traits and reputation traits I could use to make up for it, but this is only a 124 shield HP (per facing) loss.
Kinetic Damage Resist Holodeck: 18 Tribble: 23.5
Note: A small improvement. Just taking the basic Hull Plating skill improved this by 5.5.
Energy Damage Resist Holodeck: 19.6 Tribble: 21.1
Note: Did not select an unlock at 10 eng. This showed a smaller improvement than the kinetic resistance at a 1.5 improvement. I'm marking this down as being due to taking Energized Hull Plates. It feels insignificant considering my Starship Hull Plating skill on Holodeck is only rank 6. On the other hand the benefit of maxing out that skill on holodeck would also be minimal to barely noticeable.
Hull Healing (HE2) Holodeck: 11742.7 HP over 15 seconds (approx 783 HP per sec). Tribble: 8485.3 HP over 15 seconds (approx 566 HP per sec).
Note: Didn't put as much focus into hull healing. The new system demanded a choice/sacrifice between damage and survivability. I heal for less as a result, but with Improved Temporal Insight I should still be able to dodge a couple of bullets so to speak.
Shield Healing (TSS1) Holodeck: 576.3 instant, 164.2 per sec for 15 seconds. Tribble: 522.1 instant, 148.8 per sec for 15 seconds.
Note: Didn't put as much focus into shield healing. The new system demanded a choice/sacrifice between damage and survivability. This will pose a problem when it comes to keeping my shields up, but since my shield strength is low because I'm in an escort, shield regen is more of a thing I have to worry about than raw capacity (but it doesn't hurt to have some raw capacity).
Power Drains (Plasmonic Leech, TR1, ES1, 70 aux power) PL Holodeck: -2.7 Per Activation (170 Flow Capacitors) PL Tribble: -1.9 Per Activation (171.2 Drain Expertise) TR1 Holodeck: -3.6 Per second for 10 seconds. TR1 Tribble: -4.8 Per second for 10 seconds. ES1 Holodeck: -24.3 to target and +12.8 to Self for 16.1 sec. ES1 Tribble: -16.7 to target and +16.7 to Self for 17.2 sec.
Note: With 70 aux power, my PL drains 1.9 power per activation. I'm guessing the aux scaling is still a WIP? Then again Bort had just said today that since a lot of the discussion had revolved around PL, it has practically made itself a target for nerfing. In regards to the other drains, Tyken's Rift 1 is more powerful for me on Tribble than on holodeck while Energy Siphon is more "balanced" yet generally weaker.
With exception to my weapons power, my other subsystems are now hovering at 70 each. This is a loss of 3 and the unlocks at the bottom do force a choice between subsystems. Which do you consider more important? Shield durability or engine speed and maneuverability? That kind of thing. So I can't make an exact replica of my holodeck build as I hoped I would with the "you won't lose anything" claim. But I was expecting that, it wouldn't be a perfect translation and I'd be loosing a few things along the way. In the end I spent 18 points in engineering, 18 in tactical and the remaining 10 points in science.
What disappointed me was that I couldn't get access to the training manuals for BO3 or BFAW3 as they were tied to the science tree. I managed to get access to the CRF/CSV manuals and the APB/APO manuals, which I guess makes up for it since my build uses cannons instead of beams while my other character builds might just be able to unlock those and others. Players typically have alts and could easily build their skill trees to unlock specific manuals. No big surprise there.
There's plenty of room to improve. I didn't find the ultimates enticing enough to aim for, having to pick between +power in the unlock paths at the bottom is a bit of a pain, and I wish healing in space was a bit more consolidated (but that's not likely to happen). I have to do more testing to come up with more precise feedback, but as mentioned at the start of my post, this is only my initial observations and comparisons.
Well, that does it for now. I will have to do more fine-tuning to see if I can more closely match my Holodeck build which means I might sacrifice some BOFF power recharge speed for more hull/shield healing. Plenty for me to think about.
This is the last I intend to say on the topic for now, then I hope we can move on to focusing on the rest of the Skill Revamp:
The fact that changes to this single item have dominated so much of a discussion supposedly dedicated to discussing far-reaching systemic changes that are having an impact on hundreds - possibly thousands - of other mechanics, is probably a very strong indicator of a need for we developers to consider substantial modifications to the item in question. No single ability, skill, or piece of equipment should ever have this much control over an entire game and its community, nor be the driving force behind the direction of larger balance modifications we might undertake in the name of the game's long-term health.
In the end, it is likely that Plasmonic Leech will have its effectiveness impacted by this Skill Revamp, and nobody will be happy about it - not the players that may have invested so heavily in obtaining it and building around it, nor the developers who will take the heat for a change that clearly needs to happen. The current values you see on Tribble aren't final, but I can pretty much guarantee that it won't end up doing everything that it previously did.
And that's in everybody's best interest. I don't expect the playerbase to see that, nor expect to hear the end of this statement any time soon.
Now... I don't suppose we could get this thread back to discussing the other hundreds of bugs, inaccuracies and unpolished facets of this system, instead of circling this drain (heh) any longer?
I'm really disappointed that we have a dev here parroting the same talking points that are usually heard from the anti-DPS crowd (usually because of a lack of knowledge).
I'm going to be blunt here: Bort you know very little about how the game plays, about the different game mechanics and how they synergize with each other. That a long with your stubbornness and you almost compulsive need to nerf things instead of just fixing them; has led you to make a lot of bad decisions and mistakes, as well as fostered a really bad lack of trust from the players towards the devs.
The PlasLeech is not overpowered, it has a couple alternatives:
the MACO/AHG shield. Cheaper and works well for aggro builds. Not quite as good as PlasLeech but still a viable alternative.
Supremacy. x2 to x3 times more expensive, but better than the PlasLeech for some(if not the majority of) builds. Another more than viable alternative. EDIT: I forgot to mention that Aux2Bat is another viable alternative to PlasLeech
There are plenty of viable builds that work with just the MACO/AHG shield. I also know of a few players that have dropped the PlasLeech altogether in favour of Supremacy, they can perform just as well without it.
It's just lack of knowledge and too much time spent listening to the anti-DPS circle jerk on the forums that leads people to believe that PlasLeech is "overpowered".
What most people on the forums, especially the anti-DPS crowd (and apparently some devs), don't realize is that Effective != Overpowered. Just because something is good does not mean it's overpowered. Just because a lot of people use something, doesn't mean it should be nerfed.
Another thing about the PlasLeech is that it's broken. It's never worked correctly, as it's tooltip says. The "To Foe" part has never ever worked. It never actually drains/removes any power from NPCs, and i'm fairly certain it doesn't either against players.
So basically it's a console that only 1/2 works and that players and devs ignorantly believe is central to all things.
I don't know why i bothered to jump in here to offer suggestions in the first place. I should have learned my lesson from the focus group, where the devs asked us for opinions and then promptly ignored 99% of what the players said. I didn't join the bug hunters because i knew that any bug i reported was going to end up as a nerf instead of just being fixed.
What's the point in talking to you if you aren't going to listen?
Yes, ratios are the same, so what? There's more "total buffness" in the new system because of new skills and most bundlings are fairly logical (that is, if you want one, you are likely to want the other.)
They're really not logical at all beyond typically being the offensive/defensive skills of a single area. That's like saying you're glad of the bundled additional resists with weap damage for when you shoot yourself in the foot... Big deal if the 'total buffness' is higher overall, if you didn't have to take the additional bloat you could fine tune and tweak the build to better suit your playstyle and probably get more out of it, especially if you're picking abilities purely for their defensive measures.
Arguing this is not an overall buff (that is, that one pick isn't better than 3 pips) is like arguing that half a glass and half a 2-liter bottle are the same thing because both are halves of something.
That doesn't even make sense, partly because the new system doesn't bundle things in a linear boost of 1/3, 2/3, 3/3 in all cases, but more so because in certain bundles you only get 50% return from one of the skills included so it's clearly not the same thing at all.
If we were to split up those bundles, keep the new skills added (like Long-range Sensors) and the removed skills removed (like Sensors) and adjusted the available points totals accordingly, you could easily have the precise same build options but you're no longer tied to effectively wasting points on something you won't use. So hey, if you wanted drain resist, you wouldn't be forced into wasted flow caps points at the same time. Ultimately this is just a massive waste in efficiency of point distribution.
But that's not comparing the old system with the new, that's comparing the new system with a hypothetical one with both old skills unbundled and new ones added and more points. Such a system would be indeed more freeform. It would also be more complex with more potential for costly "newb errors" and one of the goals of the revamp is reducing those...
No, that's me trying to point out to you that the new system drastically inhibits your ability to build freely while I attempted to keep the 'new skills which remove suboptimal choices' to illustrate the point. The skills that removed and were added were seemingly done so because the mechanics, frankly, sucked. It had nothing to do with what points went where half of the time and everything to do with the skills and abilities which drew from them being inherently useless in the majority of cases.
What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
Stop new content until quality returns
This is the last I intend to say on the topic for now, then I hope we can move on to focusing on the rest of the Skill Revamp:
The fact that changes to this single item have dominated so much of a discussion supposedly dedicated to discussing far-reaching systemic changes that are having an impact on hundreds - possibly thousands - of other mechanics, is probably a very strong indicator of a need for we developers to consider substantial modifications to the item in question. No single ability, skill, or piece of equipment should ever have this much control over an entire game and its community, nor be the driving force behind the direction of larger balance modifications we might undertake in the name of the game's long-term health.
In the end, it is likely that Plasmonic Leech will have its effectiveness impacted by this Skill Revamp, and nobody will be happy about it - not the players that may have invested so heavily in obtaining it and building around it, nor the developers who will take the heat for a change that clearly needs to happen. The current values you see on Tribble aren't final, but I can pretty much guarantee that it won't end up doing everything that it previously did.
And that's in everybody's best interest. I don't expect the playerbase to see that, nor expect to hear the end of this statement any time soon.
Now... I don't suppose we could get this thread back to discussing the other hundreds of bugs, inaccuracies and unpolished facets of this system, instead of circling this drain (heh) any longer?
I'm really disappointed that we have a dev here parroting the same talking points that are usually heard from the anti-DPS crowd (usually because of a lack of knowledge).
I'm going to be blunt here: Bort you know very little about how the game plays, about the different game mechanics and how they synergize with each other. That a long with your stubbornness and you almost compulsive need to nerf things instead of just fixing them; has led you to make a lot of bad decisions and mistakes, as well as fostered a really bad lack of trust from the players towards the devs.
The PlasLeech is not overpowered, it has a couple alternatives:
the MACO/AHG shield. Cheaper and works well for aggro builds. Not quite as good as PlasLeech but still a viable alternative.
Supremacy. x2 to x3 times more expensive, but better than the PlasLeech for some(if not the majority of) builds. Another more than viable alternative.
There are plenty of viable builds that work with just the MACO/AHG shield. I also know of a few players that have dropped the PlasLeech altogether in favour of Supremacy, they can perform just as well without it.
It's just lack of knowledge and too much time spent listening to the anti-DPS circle jerk on the forums that leads people to believe that PlasLeech is "overpowered".
What most people on the forums, especially the anti-DPS crowd (and apparently some devs), don't realize is that Effective != Overpowered. Just because something is good does not mean it's overpowered. Just because a lot of people use something, doesn't mean it should be nerfed.
Another thing about the PlasLeech is that it's broken. It's never worked correctly, as it's tooltip says. The "To Foe" part has never ever worked. It never actually drains/removes any power from NPCs, and i'm fairly certain it doesn't either against players.
So basically it's a console that only 1/2 works and that players and devs ignorantly believe is central to all things.
I don't know why i bothered to jump in here to offer suggestions in the first place. I should have learned my lesson from the focus group, where the devs asked us for opinions and then promptly ignored 99% of what the players said. I didn't join the bug hunters because i knew that any bug i reported was going to end up as a nerf instead of just being fixed.
What's the point in talking to you if you aren't going to listen?
Listen to your own logic if maco/AHG are nearly as good as plasmonic leech.... Then why the attitude against it's nerf ? Supremacy is pretty OP too tbh, but plasmonic leech has quite a few aspects that create a ability which does too many good things at once. it does drain btw I don't know why you say it's bugged ?
Before you say anything I'm not anti dps, but consoles like plasmonic leech and traits like Supremacy. Make being a engineer pointless, as power don't stack well and makes their captain abilities less valued. Thous devaluing a already undervalued class, same as how science captains are underpowered. Because in most situations tactical captain abilities are ALWAYS USEFUL and their abilities stack very well with everything.
You'd do yourself a service if you responded to what I said instead of what you thought you heard me say.
I not once called Leech overpowered. I simply said that it was dominating conversations and decision making processes amongst the community.
Furthermore, the options you are calling out as "alternatives" are just as dominant of those same conversations. Indicating not that they are examples of balanced choices, but other outliers just like Leech itself.
I have tried to respect your opinions, but now you're just making up a story to fit your own agenda.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Back to bugs and whatnot...does everyone realize that some racial traits, specifically Joined Trill, now do nothing with the new skill tree in place?
We have a lot of information to get through here. The more organized ya'll can be about reporting bugs or problems you run across (like this one!) the better it will be for all of us. So please make bug reports in the Tribble bug report subforum.
I just moved one of my "regular" characters over to Tribble, because I wanted to see what it would be like when the new system hit my old characters.
And, I know this is kinda stupid (comparatively)....but....
That "Retrain Skills" button, right next to the "Purchase" button...is annoying, to say the least. For as many times as one has to click on that Purchase button, the Retrain Skills button seems in the way.
I am sure there is some sort of confirmation before a "Respec" gets used....but repeatedly going through that dialog could get annoying on accidental clicks.
Also, because everything is so crowded at the bottom of the skill tree window, I would occasionally activate the pop up for ULTIMATE SELECTION in the Upgrade Bar when trying to hit "Purchase".
And isn't "Purchase" a strange word for what that button means... I have always seen it as my Captain LEARNed a new skill.
One more thing what is "Damage Resistance Rating"??? It is all over the definitions in this skill tree and I am not sure what it actually is.
Just going with what sounded good to me (nothing planned out in advance, and not trying to copy the skills on Holodeck), I ended up with: ENG 18 / SCI 12 / TAC 16 in Space.
I unlocked all but 2 of my BOFF Manuals (Tractor Beam Repulsors 3 and Viral Matrix 3)....I think I am happy with that. ALL of my BOFF Manuals showed up in the R&D School area.
I am surprised I picked so much stuff in Engineering.
On the GROUND side: 10 points feels kinda skimpy to me....
I felt I needed something else, though not sure what I would have put it in.
I checked the BOFF Manuals, and all of these show up in the R&D School area, too. AND Gravimetric Shift 3 manual is Electro-Gravtic Field 3 in the R&D School. Don't forget to change the text on the Skill Tree side.
(PS moved this from another thread, because that was the FAQ thread)
Post edited by where2r1 on
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
You'd do yourself a service if you responded to what I said instead of what you thought you heard me say.
I not once called Leech overpowered. I simply said that it was dominating conversations and decision making processes amongst the community.
Furthermore, the options you are calling out as "alternatives" are just as dominant of those same conversations. Indicating not that they are examples of balanced choices, but other outliers just like Leech itself.
I have tried to respect your opinions, but now you're just making up a story to fit your own agenda.
Yeah no... With all due respect to your Mr. Borticus you are wrong. IF we talk balance here then you could have given the FED side and Romulan as well the Leech on ANY existing ships. You didnt. Now the same console YOU (and you as company i reffer to here) given to us you now try to nerf ? And also why do you punish us who spent so much time / ec to buy this console ? is it our fault how it performs ? No its not. Do you have any idea how hard it is to come by certain amount of EC nowadays ? Esspecially for console that costs as much as Leech ? No, you dont. You aggain in your own response called Leech "outperforming". Yes there are alternatives to fix this, however you are listening to the crowd who is Anti - DPS anythin and this is where you are wrong (with all due respect). Callin out a person who was one amongst many who has given you multiple times answers and did math for you free of charge based on their own free time you chosed to ignore it - now i see this is the same song and dance all over aggain. Pitty. Some of us want to work with you to get game better for everyone but not at expense at people's wallets - and this is why aggain it seems to me we cannot reach concesus sadly. Its not up to us its up to you. As old saying says "dont call us - we will call you"... Apparently we call for nothing - sadly so. I know il probably gonna be called out now that im "dirty elitist" or that "i fit my own agenda to all of this" but its fine.
Lets keep in mind that no player chose to make the leech what it is. The entire game changed because of what we were given. Leech has been meta for years so, as devoted players, we chose to grind out a piece of gear we thought was worth while, because you made it that way. Now we have to watch our investment dwindle to literally half of what it once was. this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.. almost as bad as the taste still lingering from the death of my mac client support. I'm starting to regret that lifetime membership
Wanted to copy and paste a post from the general forum to here for more input.
I've managed to recreate my tank Science Odyssey build nearly the same, here is what I've found:
Hull points and shield points were slightly nerfed but not by much, hull by 90 points, shields by 9 so that's not bad. Resistance across the board was also lower, about 0.2 points only for each if that so again acceptable.
On the other hand stealth detection and bonus defense went up by 0.5-2 points. Crit chance, crit severity, and accuracy appeared to stay the same.
I've also checked my weapon damage on the hud and they are all up as well about 50-100 points. My subsystems stayed about the same, for some reason lost one point in weapon and shield and both points ended up on engines, I'll take it...don't feel like fine tuning it now.
Speed and turn rate were also slightly lower, again not much at all I'm talking about 0.2-0.5 points.
One of the biggest losses (but only because I put only one point in it) was Power Transfer rate which went from 184% to 164%. Also my leech drain with 2 points in is at -1.6 drain where as before I had 7 points and was at -1.9.
Now with all this being said, I did manage to put some points in skills that never existed before like: 2 points in hull pen 1 point in shield pen 1 point in shield hardness
So everything else being considered, even though I lost a few points here and there, I'd say I gained some with the hull and shield pens and shield hardness.
Now on to the two trickier things to measure since some mechanics were broken and/or glitchy...
1. Hull repair rate: With 100% crew my out of combat was around 320% and in combat was about 96% give or take. Now my out of combat is about 240% and in combat is about 78%.
However, despite this being lower on average it will end up higher because I won't suffer the loss of crew thereby lowering those numbers.
2. Shield regen rate: because the tool tip on this was always broken it's hard to say how much I had exactly but I was calculating base at 400 and with my shield power giving me x3 that so around 1200 per 6 seconds.
Now with just two points in shield regen I believe my rate is around 1140 per 6 seconds.
So I'd say I think overall I improved. I will test a little more in the following days and hopefully post some pics of the "before" and "after" stats of everything to show you exactly what I mean.
Hope this helps.
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
You'd do yourself a service if you responded to what I said instead of what you thought you heard me say.
I not once called Leech overpowered. I simply said that it was dominating conversations and decision making processes amongst the community.
Furthermore, the options you are calling out as "alternatives" are just as dominant of those same conversations. Indicating not that they are examples of balanced choices, but other outliers just like Leech itself.
I have tried to respect your opinions, but now you're just making up a story to fit your own agenda.
So...quick question...and I'm being 100% serious here. What's the ETA on the nerf to Aux to Batt?
We've been waiting how long for that to happen? It is going to happen right?
The fact that changes to this single item have dominated so much of a discussion supposedly dedicated to discussing far-reaching systemic changes that are having an impact on hundreds - possibly thousands - of other mechanics, is probably a very strong indicator of a need for we developers to consider substantial modifications to the item in question.
I disagree with this sentiment. Allow me to explain why.
You have two possibilities.
1) all items are equally useful.
2) some items are more useful than others.
If you chose #1, then there's no meta game about equipping your ship. I can throw on whatever and it's all good. People will not play for long as there's nothing to do.
So you've chosen option #2. This means that people can work, grind, save, etc to get into ever better equipment. This also means that there's a significant investment in that kind of equipment. So yea, when you nerf it, it makes people unhappy.
Two more options.
1) How you build doesn't matter. There's no synergy to min-max.
2) Careful builds yield better results.
Chose #1 and once everyone has the best (or best tier) equipment, again, there's no meta game. Nothing you introduce later will change play style and people leave out of boredom.
But you've chosen #2. This means that people can't just get something in the top gear set; they have to carefully choose an entire ships worth of very expensive (see first set of possibilities) equipment that is critically interdependent.
Now when you nerf any piece of that setup, you nerf the whole setup. It's just like the problem with the first question, only worse.
Finally: if you truly believe that something "everyone" wants is tautologically a clear priority to "fix", when do you think you'll get around to [acc] proc which no one wants?
Or [snare] that works backwards?
Surely these are *more* important.
Of course: It's also possible that your choice is strategic. After all, even if you've chose both #2s above, people will eventually get an "ideal" setup and their metagame will end... but if you keep breaking these, it will force people trying to top the DPS game (the only thing that keeps some of us playing) to start over. Evil, but effective if you don't do it so much they leave anyway.
Of course: It's also possible that your choice is strategic. After all, even if you've chose both #2s above, people will eventually get an "ideal" setup and their metagame will end... but if you keep breaking these, it will force people trying to top the DPS game (the only thing that keeps some of us playing) to start over. Evil, but effective if you don't do it so much they leave anyway.
Yeah, I hear in the wind that a flood of people, led by a certain caped man, are moving back to Aux to Batt. We better make sure we get a clear position on that before we start dumping huge amounts of resources and time to convert setups, doffs and skill trees to compliment aux to batt builds again.
Comments
I know you didn't, but my point was that your total number of picks for the given number of options is still the same comparatively. You don't get 'free' stuff because they're bundled together, if anything you get 'less freedom' to put the points were you want to.
If we were to split up those bundles, keep the new skills added (like Long-range Sensors) and the removed skills removed (like Sensors) and adjusted the available points totals accordingly, you could easily have the precise same build options but you're no longer tied to effectively wasting points on something you won't use. So hey, if you wanted drain resist, you wouldn't be forced into wasted flow caps points at the same time. Ultimately this is just a massive waste in efficiency of point distribution.
Stop new content until quality returns
Ok, this makes sense to me. Last thought on the subject is that if you want to make the leech not a *best in slot* console, either it has to stop adding subsystem power at all (because even a mere +8 to all systems is still amazing), or it has to take up a tactical console slot or something like that. Otherwise, it is still better than every other available option.
Back to bugs and whatnot...does everyone realize that some racial traits, specifically Joined Trill, now do nothing with the new skill tree in place?
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
The tradeoff for the power isn't SRO. I can easily fly my Recluse and I don't suffer that power problem, yet keep my SRO boffs. The tradeoff as stated when LOR was released was -40 subsystem power and lower base resists to balance the Singularity clickies...of which only Warp Shadows is remotely useful and certainly not worth what Romulans give up for it.
Do I think they'll reverse the drain decision? No. But I would like them to consider revising the subsystem power discrepancy that warbirds have.
Trying to see a negative aspect to your "problem" and for some reason, I can't find one. You used to spend let's say 9 old points into insulators and 0 on flow caps and now you spend 3 new points to get the same benefit plus some drain skill if you ever need it.
They'll have their performance restored in a future patch. To what +100 of the relevant skill would give them in the old system.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Singularity core powers are a lot weaker then they use to be so honestly, they should go back to -20 that they changed it to in LOR beta then changed it back to -40. Unless they plan on buffing singularity cores in general, which aren't as good as warp cores.
I care. I specifically paid for being able to create a Joined Trill just for the sci bonuses. It's my alt sci toon and I specced it to be way more sci focused than my PvP toon. I thought those sci bonuses were the whole selling point of a Joined Trill, otherwise, I'd just use a regular Trill captain.
Heck, I paid for a Ferasan as a ground focused toon. That pretty much went down the drain with the new skill tree since there won't be any real difference between my toons ground wise now except the Ferasan is extra dodgy and jumps higher.
yah join trill need fixing. As well in my opinion lib borg need a different trait, or change the way that trait works. Hell all racial abilities need changes that help both ground and space. Do they all need to be romulan trait amazing no. But something interesting for both space and ground.
I'd noticed the Joined Trill thing as well and assumed it was a display bug similar to various gear, etc, the still show the wrong skills. Until they re-add the skill summary status page, it would be hard to tell exactly what bonuses, if any, they are getting. I suppose you could check the differences between two otherwise identical characters.
re: ground skills. I suspect again that my character design strategies fit very nicely with the new skill revamp, and still show some differences. My kdf eng focused mostly on being as hard to kill as possible ( 9 points in shields, repair, willpower, armor, weapons and demolitions, iirc. and yes, it was well over 66000 pts) This translated well into the new ground skills. 2 points in weapon damage, 2 in HPs, 2 in Shields, 2 in Armor, and 2 in Kit mastery. So a total net gain over my old character.. he can now use all his kit abilities at full effectiveness, and still has the tanky feel.
My fed sci, however, went more offense, with weaker armor/etc, but more into kit abilities. So 4pts in weapons, 4 in Kit mastery ( undecided yet on if the recharge reduction is worth it. more testing is needed ), and 2 somewhere in defenses. I'm still tinkering with this, and this character was never fully mature even on Holodeck, so harder to tell. But the feel is definitely different. a bit more glass-cannon.
edit: oops. quoted the wrong post.
I dunno, but the pull distance (GWIII) to the amount of foes it grabs to it's hold effect is most defiantly way less then it used to be (and I didn't have any points spec'd into subspace decompiler)... And Fleet Particle Focus consoles don't have much effect in buffing it up. It's very noticeable on my Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer, and crippling enough that I think I have to completely write that build off - 5 months of wasted time with experimenting with all sorts of science abilities, and figuring out what I wanted to do with that build. Well, on the good side I now know I can safely scrap my plans for what I was going to grind out reputation wise for it... And I have some other builds that still look viable.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Arguing this is not an overall buff (that is, that one pick isn't better than 3 pips) is like arguing that half a glass and half a 2-liter bottle are the same thing because both are halves of something.
But that's not comparing the old system with the new, that's comparing the new system with a hypothetical one with both old skills unbundled and new ones added and more points. Such a system would be indeed more freeform. It would also be more complex with more potential for costly "newb errors" and one of the goals of the revamp is reducing those...
Defense
Holodeck: 101
Tribble: 93.5
Note: An 8 point loss. As I haven't actually tested it, I can't say if the lower value on Tribble is intended to hard-cap at 100 or exceed it. If the former is true, then this shouldn't change my dodge chances. But if the latter is true, I'm probably going to worry about dying a bit more often.
Hull Integrity
Holodeck: 61202
Tribble: 54560
Note: Did not select an unlock at 10 eng. I probably could have matched my Holodeck hull cap, but I only had 1 point in Hull Capacity on Tribble. This is the largest difference so far. A bit more squishy than before. Unless of course I grab that hull cap unlock, the Bulkhead Technician space trait, or the Fortified Hull reputation trait.
Shields
Holodeck: 12523
Tribble: 12399
Note: I probably could have matched my Holodeck value, but I sacrificed that third level of Shield Capacity. Not a big deal given my ship is an escort and its shield modifier is weak anyway. There's also space traits and reputation traits I could use to make up for it, but this is only a 124 shield HP (per facing) loss.
Kinetic Damage Resist
Holodeck: 18
Tribble: 23.5
Note: A small improvement. Just taking the basic Hull Plating skill improved this by 5.5.
Energy Damage Resist
Holodeck: 19.6
Tribble: 21.1
Note: Did not select an unlock at 10 eng. This showed a smaller improvement than the kinetic resistance at a 1.5 improvement. I'm marking this down as being due to taking Energized Hull Plates. It feels insignificant considering my Starship Hull Plating skill on Holodeck is only rank 6. On the other hand the benefit of maxing out that skill on holodeck would also be minimal to barely noticeable.
Hull Healing (HE2)
Holodeck: 11742.7 HP over 15 seconds (approx 783 HP per sec).
Tribble: 8485.3 HP over 15 seconds (approx 566 HP per sec).
Note: Didn't put as much focus into hull healing. The new system demanded a choice/sacrifice between damage and survivability. I heal for less as a result, but with Improved Temporal Insight I should still be able to dodge a couple of bullets so to speak.
Shield Healing (TSS1)
Holodeck: 576.3 instant, 164.2 per sec for 15 seconds.
Tribble: 522.1 instant, 148.8 per sec for 15 seconds.
Note: Didn't put as much focus into shield healing. The new system demanded a choice/sacrifice between damage and survivability. This will pose a problem when it comes to keeping my shields up, but since my shield strength is low because I'm in an escort, shield regen is more of a thing I have to worry about than raw capacity (but it doesn't hurt to have some raw capacity).
Power Drains (Plasmonic Leech, TR1, ES1, 70 aux power)
PL Holodeck: -2.7 Per Activation (170 Flow Capacitors)
PL Tribble: -1.9 Per Activation (171.2 Drain Expertise)
TR1 Holodeck: -3.6 Per second for 10 seconds.
TR1 Tribble: -4.8 Per second for 10 seconds.
ES1 Holodeck: -24.3 to target and +12.8 to Self for 16.1 sec.
ES1 Tribble: -16.7 to target and +16.7 to Self for 17.2 sec.
Note: With 70 aux power, my PL drains 1.9 power per activation. I'm guessing the aux scaling is still a WIP? Then again Bort had just said today that since a lot of the discussion had revolved around PL, it has practically made itself a target for nerfing. In regards to the other drains, Tyken's Rift 1 is more powerful for me on Tribble than on holodeck while Energy Siphon is more "balanced" yet generally weaker.
With exception to my weapons power, my other subsystems are now hovering at 70 each. This is a loss of 3 and the unlocks at the bottom do force a choice between subsystems. Which do you consider more important? Shield durability or engine speed and maneuverability? That kind of thing. So I can't make an exact replica of my holodeck build as I hoped I would with the "you won't lose anything" claim. But I was expecting that, it wouldn't be a perfect translation and I'd be loosing a few things along the way. In the end I spent 18 points in engineering, 18 in tactical and the remaining 10 points in science.
What disappointed me was that I couldn't get access to the training manuals for BO3 or BFAW3 as they were tied to the science tree. I managed to get access to the CRF/CSV manuals and the APB/APO manuals, which I guess makes up for it since my build uses cannons instead of beams while my other character builds might just be able to unlock those and others. Players typically have alts and could easily build their skill trees to unlock specific manuals. No big surprise there.
There's plenty of room to improve. I didn't find the ultimates enticing enough to aim for, having to pick between +power in the unlock paths at the bottom is a bit of a pain, and I wish healing in space was a bit more consolidated (but that's not likely to happen). I have to do more testing to come up with more precise feedback, but as mentioned at the start of my post, this is only my initial observations and comparisons.
Well, that does it for now. I will have to do more fine-tuning to see if I can more closely match my Holodeck build which means I might sacrifice some BOFF power recharge speed for more hull/shield healing. Plenty for me to think about.
I'm really disappointed that we have a dev here parroting the same talking points that are usually heard from the anti-DPS crowd (usually because of a lack of knowledge).
I'm going to be blunt here: Bort you know very little about how the game plays, about the different game mechanics and how they synergize with each other. That a long with your stubbornness and you almost compulsive need to nerf things instead of just fixing them; has led you to make a lot of bad decisions and mistakes, as well as fostered a really bad lack of trust from the players towards the devs.
The PlasLeech is not overpowered, it has a couple alternatives:
the MACO/AHG shield. Cheaper and works well for aggro builds. Not quite as good as PlasLeech but still a viable alternative.
Supremacy. x2 to x3 times more expensive, but better than the PlasLeech for some(if not the majority of) builds. Another more than viable alternative.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that Aux2Bat is another viable alternative to PlasLeech
There are plenty of viable builds that work with just the MACO/AHG shield. I also know of a few players that have dropped the PlasLeech altogether in favour of Supremacy, they can perform just as well without it.
It's just lack of knowledge and too much time spent listening to the anti-DPS circle jerk on the forums that leads people to believe that PlasLeech is "overpowered".
What most people on the forums, especially the anti-DPS crowd (and apparently some devs), don't realize is that Effective != Overpowered. Just because something is good does not mean it's overpowered. Just because a lot of people use something, doesn't mean it should be nerfed.
Another thing about the PlasLeech is that it's broken. It's never worked correctly, as it's tooltip says. The "To Foe" part has never ever worked. It never actually drains/removes any power from NPCs, and i'm fairly certain it doesn't either against players.
So basically it's a console that only 1/2 works and that players and devs ignorantly believe is central to all things.
I don't know why i bothered to jump in here to offer suggestions in the first place. I should have learned my lesson from the focus group, where the devs asked us for opinions and then promptly ignored 99% of what the players said. I didn't join the bug hunters because i knew that any bug i reported was going to end up as a nerf instead of just being fixed.
What's the point in talking to you if you aren't going to listen?
That doesn't even make sense, partly because the new system doesn't bundle things in a linear boost of 1/3, 2/3, 3/3 in all cases, but more so because in certain bundles you only get 50% return from one of the skills included so it's clearly not the same thing at all.
No, that's me trying to point out to you that the new system drastically inhibits your ability to build freely while I attempted to keep the 'new skills which remove suboptimal choices' to illustrate the point. The skills that removed and were added were seemingly done so because the mechanics, frankly, sucked. It had nothing to do with what points went where half of the time and everything to do with the skills and abilities which drew from them being inherently useless in the majority of cases.
Stop new content until quality returns
Listen to your own logic if maco/AHG are nearly as good as plasmonic leech.... Then why the attitude against it's nerf ? Supremacy is pretty OP too tbh, but plasmonic leech has quite a few aspects that create a ability which does too many good things at once. it does drain btw I don't know why you say it's bugged ?
Before you say anything I'm not anti dps, but consoles like plasmonic leech and traits like Supremacy. Make being a engineer pointless, as power don't stack well and makes their captain abilities less valued. Thous devaluing a already undervalued class, same as how science captains are underpowered. Because in most situations tactical captain abilities are ALWAYS USEFUL and their abilities stack very well with everything.
You'd do yourself a service if you responded to what I said instead of what you thought you heard me say.
I not once called Leech overpowered. I simply said that it was dominating conversations and decision making processes amongst the community.
Furthermore, the options you are calling out as "alternatives" are just as dominant of those same conversations. Indicating not that they are examples of balanced choices, but other outliers just like Leech itself.
I have tried to respect your opinions, but now you're just making up a story to fit your own agenda.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
We have a lot of information to get through here. The more organized ya'll can be about reporting bugs or problems you run across (like this one!) the better it will be for all of us. So please make bug reports in the Tribble bug report subforum.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/categories/tribble-bug-reports
Thanks!
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
And, I know this is kinda stupid (comparatively)....but....
That "Retrain Skills" button, right next to the "Purchase" button...is annoying, to say the least. For as many times as one has to click on that Purchase button, the Retrain Skills button seems in the way.
I am sure there is some sort of confirmation before a "Respec" gets used....but repeatedly going through that dialog could get annoying on accidental clicks.
Also, because everything is so crowded at the bottom of the skill tree window, I would occasionally activate the pop up for ULTIMATE SELECTION in the Upgrade Bar when trying to hit "Purchase".
And isn't "Purchase" a strange word for what that button means... I have always seen it as my Captain LEARNed a new skill.
One more thing what is "Damage Resistance Rating"??? It is all over the definitions in this skill tree and I am not sure what it actually is.
Just going with what sounded good to me (nothing planned out in advance, and not trying to copy the skills on Holodeck), I ended up with: ENG 18 / SCI 12 / TAC 16 in Space.
I unlocked all but 2 of my BOFF Manuals (Tractor Beam Repulsors 3 and Viral Matrix 3)....I think I am happy with that. ALL of my BOFF Manuals showed up in the R&D School area.
I am surprised I picked so much stuff in Engineering.
On the GROUND side: 10 points feels kinda skimpy to me....
I felt I needed something else, though not sure what I would have put it in.
I checked the BOFF Manuals, and all of these show up in the R&D School area, too. AND Gravimetric Shift 3 manual is Electro-Gravtic Field 3 in the R&D School. Don't forget to change the text on the Skill Tree side.
(PS moved this from another thread, because that was the FAQ thread)
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Yeah no... With all due respect to your Mr. Borticus you are wrong. IF we talk balance here then you could have given the FED side and Romulan as well the Leech on ANY existing ships. You didnt. Now the same console YOU (and you as company i reffer to here) given to us you now try to nerf ? And also why do you punish us who spent so much time / ec to buy this console ? is it our fault how it performs ? No its not. Do you have any idea how hard it is to come by certain amount of EC nowadays ? Esspecially for console that costs as much as Leech ? No, you dont. You aggain in your own response called Leech "outperforming". Yes there are alternatives to fix this, however you are listening to the crowd who is Anti - DPS anythin and this is where you are wrong (with all due respect). Callin out a person who was one amongst many who has given you multiple times answers and did math for you free of charge based on their own free time you chosed to ignore it - now i see this is the same song and dance all over aggain. Pitty. Some of us want to work with you to get game better for everyone but not at expense at people's wallets - and this is why aggain it seems to me we cannot reach concesus sadly. Its not up to us its up to you. As old saying says "dont call us - we will call you"... Apparently we call for nothing - sadly so. I know il probably gonna be called out now that im "dirty elitist" or that "i fit my own agenda to all of this" but its fine.
I've managed to recreate my tank Science Odyssey build nearly the same, here is what I've found:
Hull points and shield points were slightly nerfed but not by much, hull by 90 points, shields by 9 so that's not bad. Resistance across the board was also lower, about 0.2 points only for each if that so again acceptable.
On the other hand stealth detection and bonus defense went up by 0.5-2 points. Crit chance, crit severity, and accuracy appeared to stay the same.
I've also checked my weapon damage on the hud and they are all up as well about 50-100 points. My subsystems stayed about the same, for some reason lost one point in weapon and shield and both points ended up on engines, I'll take it...don't feel like fine tuning it now.
Speed and turn rate were also slightly lower, again not much at all I'm talking about 0.2-0.5 points.
One of the biggest losses (but only because I put only one point in it) was Power Transfer rate which went from 184% to 164%. Also my leech drain with 2 points in is at -1.6 drain where as before I had 7 points and was at -1.9.
Now with all this being said, I did manage to put some points in skills that never existed before like:
2 points in hull pen
1 point in shield pen
1 point in shield hardness
So everything else being considered, even though I lost a few points here and there, I'd say I gained some with the hull and shield pens and shield hardness.
Now on to the two trickier things to measure since some mechanics were broken and/or glitchy...
1. Hull repair rate: With 100% crew my out of combat was around 320% and in combat was about 96% give or take. Now my out of combat is about 240% and in combat is about 78%.
However, despite this being lower on average it will end up higher because I won't suffer the loss of crew thereby lowering those numbers.
2. Shield regen rate: because the tool tip on this was always broken it's hard to say how much I had exactly but I was calculating base at 400 and with my shield power giving me x3 that so around 1200 per 6 seconds.
Now with just two points in shield regen I believe my rate is around 1140 per 6 seconds.
So I'd say I think overall I improved. I will test a little more in the following days and hopefully post some pics of the "before" and "after" stats of everything to show you exactly what I mean.
Hope this helps.
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
So...quick question...and I'm being 100% serious here. What's the ETA on the nerf to Aux to Batt?
We've been waiting how long for that to happen? It is going to happen right?
I disagree with this sentiment. Allow me to explain why.
You have two possibilities.
1) all items are equally useful.
2) some items are more useful than others.
If you chose #1, then there's no meta game about equipping your ship. I can throw on whatever and it's all good. People will not play for long as there's nothing to do.
So you've chosen option #2. This means that people can work, grind, save, etc to get into ever better equipment. This also means that there's a significant investment in that kind of equipment. So yea, when you nerf it, it makes people unhappy.
Two more options.
1) How you build doesn't matter. There's no synergy to min-max.
2) Careful builds yield better results.
Chose #1 and once everyone has the best (or best tier) equipment, again, there's no meta game. Nothing you introduce later will change play style and people leave out of boredom.
But you've chosen #2. This means that people can't just get something in the top gear set; they have to carefully choose an entire ships worth of very expensive (see first set of possibilities) equipment that is critically interdependent.
Now when you nerf any piece of that setup, you nerf the whole setup. It's just like the problem with the first question, only worse.
Finally: if you truly believe that something "everyone" wants is tautologically a clear priority to "fix", when do you think you'll get around to [acc] proc which no one wants?
Or [snare] that works backwards?
Surely these are *more* important.
Of course: It's also possible that your choice is strategic. After all, even if you've chose both #2s above, people will eventually get an "ideal" setup and their metagame will end... but if you keep breaking these, it will force people trying to top the DPS game (the only thing that keeps some of us playing) to start over. Evil, but effective if you don't do it so much they leave anyway.
Yeah, I hear in the wind that a flood of people, led by a certain caped man, are moving back to Aux to Batt. We better make sure we get a clear position on that before we start dumping huge amounts of resources and time to convert setups, doffs and skill trees to compliment aux to batt builds again.