For those still complaining about leech and drain abilities, are you taking into account Science Fleet now boosts them, instead of just providing drain resists?
Yet another boost for science captains that tacs don't get.
So sci fleet, which provides a temporary boost to some skills, which have had their investment returns halved, and also their resists boosted, is an overall buff? I honestly don't think you've considered this properly when trying to convey something, but please, tell me how 100+K DPS tac captains are honestly in a position to complain about a sci buff when Sci powers are being nerfed across practically their entire spectrum...
In case you weren't aware, it has been mentioned a few times that Borticus is well aware of the fact that Sci powers are currently NOT performing properly as a result of the Aux power re-scaling, and every single powers calculations need to be rewritten one by one.
Not trying to belittle, but it seems like one of the things that got buried in the sea of Leechers complaining
Real Temporal Operative: Purchased the Special Temporal Agent pack before it was even officially announced!
At anyrate, overall I'm happy with the new skill system - it flows better then the skill points system, it's easier to follow then the old system, it fit's in better aesthetically then the points system, & it should be easier for new players to understand. I think think the retrain autoblank everything is excessive, and a couple things I wouldn't mind seeing would be nice. But overall, I think it does move in the right direction.
People are getting bent out of shape over something that boosts the majority of players. Besides, if you check what the next spec tree is supposed to boost with its ship trait, it won't be much of a nerf anyway once aux scaling is fixed, which they've admitted as a bug. I main a science captain that didn't build around plasmonic leech or cap part gen, and am getting comparable part gen damage and boosted drain. Instead of complaining about how the metas are different, how about building for the new one?
In case you weren't aware, it has been mentioned a few times that Borticus is well aware of the fact that Sci powers are currently NOT performing properly as a result of the Aux power re-scaling, and every single powers calculations need to be rewritten one by one.
Not trying to belittle, but it seems like one of the things that got buried in the sea of Leechers complaining
I'm aware, and it's one of the other points which is in the back of my mind to bring up once I've found the right way I want to articulate it. As near as I can tell the subsystem power levels are all (bar weap, much shock, very DPS pander, meh) nerfed for higher skill-related interaction which begs the point, why have subsystem power at all if it's effectiveness is to be actively reduced?
Does anyone else remember the 25th anniversary Star Trek games? I think my first interaction with a subsystem power balance was the Game Boy version back in, when was that, 1992? It really hasn't changed a whole lot since then and it's been a fairly workable system even with the changes which have brought it to it's current (not new revamp) state, so I wonder why that's being slapped down?
Perhaps the issue with drains isn't an issue with drains at all. Perhaps the issues come back to a lack of reasonable background mechanics on how drains interact with their targets and with the various power boosts which exist through the game as a whole, all of which takes us back to this revamp not addressing issues which could've been sorted under the old system anyway...
I'm going to bring this up every time someone mentions the leech, it's getting to the point where I feel I need a signature to hammer some of these points home since they're continually overlooked. I'll get to other points when I feel up to it, but really, this new skill system combined with obvious nerfs is being handled really badly. One at a time would've allowed us to gauge it all so much more easily; that they're being done at the same time leads to speculation of what's being hidden intentionally.
The leech needs balanced. In fact, exactly as Borticus stated, Sci powers need their skill-to-effect brought to a consistent line and the leech is outside of that. Now that's largely because it's not boosted by Aux power like so many drain abilities, but then, it's also not an ability at all... Ultimately, for ease and transparency of use, the base idea is GREAT! (actually needs heavy emphasis because it needs it, not because of sarcasm), even if it does fly directly into the face of 'value of things will remain as they are'
Bort has also mentioned that things like the MACO/AKHG shield power return needs balanced specifically with reduction because this is also being talked about alot. Shock horror, when people talk about the leech they talk about power return, which brings up other methods of power return which are also viable by comparison. So your response to 'it's being talked about a lot' is to nerf it? Again, that just flat out doesn't make any sense and doesn't even take any form of empirical evidence into account. The leech specifically is easy to obtain compared to other options which take grinding and RNG (doffs, etc) or dilithium investments (MACO/AKHG shield) vs a single payment of Zen though actual money or dilith grind for KDF, and no dilith required for Fed which reduces the impact on upgrades and all those other dilith sinks Cryptic has implemented to monetise the game, so really Feds, on that matter quite whining, you're still up on the KDF on that front...
Sci is being needlessly nerfed. I don't care if it's purely a textual issue, it doesn't make sense to call something 'drain expertise' and have it only return half effectiveness on drains, that's just flat-out, bare-faced stupid. When we get new players who ask why it is that drain expertise only returns half drains, what are we supposed to tell them? "*shrug* Bort borked it, and that's how it is". Give us 100% equal point returns and adjust the ability functions, that's at least open and about as transparent as I think we can possibly hope for even if the resists are still being actively doubled vs effects; that at least is something that is outside of the skill tree directly and can be labelled as an on-going balance.
Someone said it somewhere and I can't find it to reference it now so I'll have to paraphrase.
This dev team specifically has a history of saying one thing and doing another. Of actively and underhandedly sneaking in stealth changes to the game, usually after having received an investment from players for whatever new thing that's been added. When your announcement contains claims that indicate simplification, core mechanics changes and retention of value it's not mere cynicism which has most players actively complaining or (perhaps overly) scrutinising the changes, it's basic sense and learned behaviour from existing history.
So yeah, there are some good things. I've mentioned them in passing, here and there, when they come up, but mostly I don't want to draw attention to them out of worry as to what might happen when the dev team tinkers with them from here on out. Realistically, they've only got themselves to blame for such reactions though.
What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
Stop new content until quality returns
For those still complaining about leech and drain abilities, are you taking into account Science Fleet now boosts them, instead of just providing drain resists?
Yet another boost for science captains that tacs don't get.
Can I have GDF then since we are talking about boosts that others don't get? You get my sensor scan debuff when I use it. I don't get to share your damage boost.
Maybe you guys should split all this 'I hate borticus and the devs and their dog' whining off to its own thread, because quite frankly it's getting to ludicrous levels of moping and whining.
This is a thread for constructive feedback to the skill revamp. We got all the doom and gloom out of the way pages ago, now the thread is aimed at doing what we can to ensure the smoothest transition.
Except you guys don't care about any of that, do you? The anti-dev lobby is just here to spam up the thread and attack the devs who have dared come out in public and put their best shoe foreward
Putting their best shoe forward would have been, "Look, we thought it all over, and decided to use the revamp to majorly nerf some things. We know you probably won't like it, but there it is." THAT would have been straightforward and honest. Instead, we got "players lose nothing" and "investments in equipment and ships retain full value."
'Constructive feedback to the skill revamp.' includes mentioning, clearly, when, under the new paradigm, things appear to get nerfed. And then, turns out, the nerfs were very much intentional. 'Communication breakdown' anyone?!
@borticuscryptic I just want to apologize for ever having been part of this crowd. I really appreciate and have always appreciated the work you and your team puts out, even when you make decisions I don't agree with. We wouldn't have this game without your investment, and I truly appreciate the work and effort you've put in to opening lines of communication with the community and trying your best to address issues.
I also respect that you hold your ground when it turns out that 'addressing an issue' leads to a change in what players were expecting, rather than mindlessly kowtowing to the complaining. Sorry if any of my posts ever rile you up, I'm a bit of a drama llama at times.
For those still complaining about leech and drain abilities, are you taking into account Science Fleet now boosts them, instead of just providing drain resists?
Yet another boost for science captains that tacs don't get.
And that means exactly nothing to me, a Fed Engineer.
Back to some feedback: On the UI side of things, I understand that you want to keep all of the progression under one tab, but I really prefer the way Specializations are currently shown on Holodeck. All of them are there, very clear to players, very easy to find. I'm afraid that, with the different Specializations being pulldowns in the Tribble UI, that some players may simply miss them. It makes switching between them slightly more inconvenient, too.
I'm not opposed to Specializations in the Skills tab, but right now, I just don't like how it's presented to players.
Someone said it somewhere and I can't find it to reference it now so I'll have to paraphrase.
This dev team specifically has a history of saying one thing and doing another. Of actively and underhandedly sneaking in stealth changes to the game, usually after having received an investment from players for whatever new thing that's been added. When your announcement contains claims that indicate simplification, core mechanics changes and retention of value it's not mere cynicism which has most players actively complaining or (perhaps overly) scrutinizing the changes, it's basic sense and learned behavior from existing history.
I try to give the benefit of the doubt on things like that, some of it I believe comes from their testing process they implemented around the time the Vesta was released on Tribble. They test ships based on a small group of selected people (or did at that time) instead of the whole of Tribble, so it has a lot less exposure to catching bugs or bad interactions (and you can't try it before you buy it of course). I've not bought but maybe two or three ships since then due to that change in testing, plus the lockbox items and skills never get tested like the rep projects do. I think a change to this policy would go a long way to increase transparency to bugs and issues (and likely player-dev trust), especially where it concerns semi-paid content.
The changes from this patch are very psychological (It affects characters some people have played for 6 years after all). People read the patch notes and see "Aux power has been readjusted and exotic damage has been normalized" and log into Tribble and see the low numbers so people think "This is intended? It was in the patch notes, it must be." People freak out till they see a post that Aux power influencing science abilities was of by a decimal place, so they mostly relax and wait for the next build. The next build they see that their damage is mostly ok, matches the math that was expected, but now the other effects are broken and that doesn't seem to be in the notes. They see a forum post that those are broken now as well, so they mostly relax again to wait for a new build. They see a post that "Plasmonic Leech is going to have to be rebalanced and your build shouldn't rely on it/affect it so heavily" and people freak out again "I spent so much money on that console", "This ruins my build, I've wasted so many resources on it", "I can't play that character anymore without it". People in general try to relax as it is simply in testing, but at the same time they need to voice how important it is to make sure it is heard by devs, but emotions and salt tend to leak out.
People read the patch notes and see "Aux power has been readjusted and exotic damage has been normalized" and log into Tribble and see the low numbers (...)
Do they?! Seems Bort has disabled the Science stats on our ships. Lovely!
a) Hull regen rate almost cut in half (153% vs. 86% now), with 1 point in Damage Control;
b) Plasmonic Leech went from 2.9 to 2.2;
c) Major shield cap inconsistency between what UI says I have (~10k), and what hovering over the actual shield reports back (~7K);
d) Major (quite unexpected) boost in Shield Regen, though: 678 (!) on my Iconian shield, with 2 points in Shield Regen. Saying it here probably means they'll immediately nerf it again, LOL, but for now it looks good.
e) Science stats have been disabled (on purpose?), so I can't tell what gravens and/or pargens amount to exactly.
Science stats have been disabled (on purpose?), so I can't tell what gravens and/or pargens amount to exactly.
I've resorted to manually adding them up based on gear stats. It may or may not be accurate but so far, they seem to check out (equal to Holodeck + 1 from the skill tree).
They have to redesign the stat window and it'll be back soon.
I checked and can replicate my current skill layout almost exactly plus a little extra... there are just a lot of good choices now so it's harder to decide how I want things. On my first build I went for the science ultimate just because, In any case the math says you can replicate almost any skill layout very closely if you really want to.
There's also what I'd like to call the Parity Trap. This is the fallacy in which Devs, like Bort, fall into the trap of using metrics to show that 'X is being used the most, therefore X must be nerfed.' Here is why that thinking is erroneous:
a) For one, as sarcasmdetectot pointed out, because being used a lot != automagically overpowered. It's like saying "Our metrics are showing us that everyone is using car seats, therefore we must nerf car seats!"
This is one of the worst analogies I've seen in the entire internet.
First - the difference in desireability between an item being gamebreaking in an MMO and a device being gamebreaking vs dying in a car crash moots the whole thing. Overpowered safety equipment is a good thing. Overpowered items in an MMO are not.
Second - infant child seats ARE overpowered! Thank goodness they are:
In 1975 infants (younger than 1) had a much higher passenger vehicle occupant fatality rate per capita than children of other ages, but by 2014 the age gap had narrowed considerably. Since 1975 fatality rates dropped 80 percent for infants, 73 percent for children ages 1-3, 53 percent for children ages 4-8, and 52 percent for children ages 9-12.
Don't get me wrong, I've been feeling anxiety about the changes, just reserving judgement during the initial patches and trying to be constructive without being too salty.
a) I'm curious about hull regen myself, but I elected to just avoid it since it doesn't work so well in combat, mine is 80% on Tribble and 135% on Holodeck.
b) Yeah, this one is a consequence of the meshing of DrainX and retuning, but it is a loss of 6 power levels at 8 stacks. With that math, the modifier for the console would comparatively be at .006 vs .01, so you'd need 316 DrainX vs 190 flow caps to reach the previous levels you had. DBR and Tyken's rift both lost about 50% of their exotic damage, so I'm feeling that a bit.
c) The UI on Holodeck is the same, the ship UI seems to go off of it's modifier I believe (Such as ~1.3 for some science ships)
d) I'm loving it, the shield regen skill is a nice addition to the trees.
e)CtrlX seems the be the most affected, probably lost something in the stat translation from Grav Gens to CtrlX, and Aux used to control the radius of GW as well, so that could also be affected. As for Part Gens/EPG they seem to match up to the new Aux scaling, GW comes out ahead by about 10%, Subspace Rift also seems to have gained 18%, Tyken's Rift and DBR lost about 50% of their damage. The deteriorating deflector also lost some of it's radiation damage, about 15%. The electrical damage for my Tyken's is ~450 without buffs, so it has added a bit back to it's damage, I'd like to see it get more DrainX/EPG boost though.
Overall I have to say I feel more survivable (Shield Regen and Hardness Trees), my power levels have changed somewhat, and I've gained some nice shield and hull penetration. I've given up some resistances and hull regen, but I'm feeling a bit more survivable and damage potent (with torps, they lost a minor 300 dps, but the extra pen is nice).
There's also what I'd like to call the Parity Trap. This is the fallacy in which Devs, like Bort, fall into the trap of using metrics to show that 'X is being used the most, therefore X must be nerfed.' Here is why that thinking is erroneous:
a) For one, as sarcasmdetectot pointed out, because being used a lot != automagically overpowered. It's like saying "Our metrics are showing us that everyone is using car seats, therefore we must nerf car seats!"
This is one of the worst analogies I've seen in the entire internet.
First - the difference in desireability between an item being gamebreaking in an MMO and a device being gamebreaking vs dying in a car crash moots the whole thing. Overpowered safety equipment is a good thing. Overpowered items in an MMO are not.
You're so incredibly missing the point, it's not even funy any more. This is not about car seats vs. Leech, but simply about the (faulty) reasoning that 'X is being used a lot, therefore X must be overpowered.' My car seat example merely showed exactly that: being used a lot means... absolutely nothing, in terms of needing a nerf.
I think this MAY be related to the Klingon player issue when fighting Miranda Class ships (I think it was in the tutorial).
I was playing Starbase 234 as I use this as one of my metrics when evaluating builds and such (Along with Borg stuff) to test my effectiveness as I was replicating my build.. Which I have done rather acceptably.. Though, when I was in Starbase 234 the Frigates seemed way too resilient than they should be..
I thought maybe I screwed up my build but after I finally killed the three Miranda Class ships I was able to tear through the next ship which is randomly selected but it is an Escort or Cruiser.. I did the runs a number of times and was able and managed to verify the 2nd wave ship's hull is about if not exactly the same on Holodeck but the Frigate NPCs seem to have way too much hull on Tribble.
Holodeck
Federation Frigate Hull: 51,622
-VS-
Tribble
Federation Frigate Hull: 268,436
This is way higher than the 2nd wave NPC (either a cruiser or escort) and way out of whack with Holodeck.. This does seem to be the case where ever any NPC Miranda ships happen to be.
Now, other than Federation Frigates everything else seems to be unaffected and consistant with NPC ships on Holodeck.
I really think that DRB isn't working right at Tribble. It was having around 0.5% per PrtG in Holodeck so it shouldn't have been hit this hard by the normalization. I was actually expecting it to remain mostly the same with only a slight reduction due to Aux scaling.
a) I'm curious about hull regen myself, but I elected to just avoid it since it doesn't work so well in combat, mine is 80% on Tribble and 135% on Holodeck.
I noticed the same thing, but found it was because "Starship Hull Repair" on Live is both a hull healing boost and passive hull regen. It's split into 2 skills on test.
On Live, I have "Hull Repair" maxed out, and once I maxed "Damage Control" on test my regen went back to where it was.
"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie" - The Doctor
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" -Agatha Heterodyne
I think this MAY be related to the Klingon player issue when fighting Miranda Class ships (I think it was in the tutorial).
I was playing Starbase 234 as I use this as one of my metrics when evaluating builds and such (Along with Borg stuff) to test my effectiveness as I was replicating my build.. Which I have done rather acceptably.. Though, when I was in Starbase 234 the Frigates seemed way too resilient than they should be..
I thought maybe I screwed up my build but after I finally killed the three Miranda Class ships I was able to tear through the next ship which is randomly selected but it is an Escort or Cruiser.. I did the runs a number of times and was able and managed to verify the 2nd wave ship's hull is about if not exactly the same on Holodeck but the Frigate NPCs seem to have way too much hull on Tribble.
Holodeck
Federation Frigate Hull: 51,622
-VS-
Tribble
Federation Frigate Hull: 268,436
This is way higher than the 2nd wave NPC (either a cruiser or escort) and way out of whack with Holodeck.. This does seem to be the case where ever any NPC Miranda ships happen to be.
Now, other than Federation Frigates everything else seems to be unaffected and consistant with NPC ships on Holodeck.
I know it's a bug, but I can't help but grin at the thought of a Miranda being "Overpowered".
"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie" - The Doctor
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" -Agatha Heterodyne
a) I'm curious about hull regen myself, but I elected to just avoid it since it doesn't work so well in combat, mine is 80% on Tribble and 135% on Holodeck.
I noticed the same thing, but found it was because "Starship Hull Repair" on Live is both a hull healing boost and passive hull regen. It's split into 2 skills on test.
On Live, I have "Hull Repair" maxed out, and once I maxed "Damage Control" on test my regen went back to where it was.
So, 6 points needed, wheretofore I needed just '3'? (3x packets of 3 = 9 old points). I can't afford to spend that much.
There's a lot of things about the new system that really irk me, but one of the biggest, aside from how the decision gate system steers people away from well rounded or unusual builds into cookie-cutter builds, is the loss of resolution (level of detail) when it comes to actually spending the skill resources.
Under the current system each skill has nine pips to put points into, and you can start filling them the moment you have enough skill points to fill them, up to a level determined restriction. This allows players to do two things: improve their skills and performance at a smooth, constant rate, and by building in such fine detail, construct a character that is more fine-tuned to that particular player's style or wants.
This new system, however, forces players to spend the same resources in large chunks that preclude the possibility of fine-tuning for personal preference. This, coupled with the fact that you only receive spendable resources every five levels makes improvement a much more jagged, jerking experience.
If it weren't for the loss of resolution and the inclusion of decision gates I'd probably be fine with the new system and skill options. I can adapt, so long as I'm not being railroaded into a limited choice, especially after having more creative freedom before.
Your all forgetting that in combat your crew is constantly dead forcing your repair rates way down. Now that mechanic is removed so your crew are never dead and the repair rate remains the same. I think the base was reduced to compensate for this so passive regeneration doesn't get out of hand, in any case we all come out ahead.
Your all forgetting that in combat your crew is constantly dead forcing your repair rates way down. Now that mechanic is removed so your crew are never dead and the repair rate remains the same. I think the base was reduced to compensate for this so passive regeneration doesn't get out of hand, in any case we all come out ahead.
Damage control - the way I saw it, you can never get your old passive hull regen values (with full crew) back, not even with 3 points, so I won't put there anything. After all, how reliant are you on passive hull regen at the moment?
Shield regen - saw slight increase, compared to holodeck values, even with 0 points in tribble. Really-really hoping it's intended.
a) I'm curious about hull regen myself, but I elected to just avoid it since it doesn't work so well in combat, mine is 80% on Tribble and 135% on Holodeck.
I noticed the same thing, but found it was because "Starship Hull Repair" on Live is both a hull healing boost and passive hull regen. It's split into 2 skills on test.
On Live, I have "Hull Repair" maxed out, and once I maxed "Damage Control" on test my regen went back to where it was.
So, 6 points needed, wheretofore I needed just '3'? (3x packets of 3 = 9 old points). I can't afford to spend that much.
That's true, but they also eliminated and cut back on a few skills in Engineering. Did you have any points spent in "Driver Coil"?
They also cut armor reinforcement from 2 branches to 1, and the subsystem power branches from 4 to 2. So that's 4 branches eliminated to 1 added.
I have 90 points spent in engineering on Holodeck, equivalent to 30 on Tribble, and yet it only cost me 24 to replicate my build in that part.
"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie" - The Doctor
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" -Agatha Heterodyne
I'm really hoping passive shield regeneration has been improved It's always been very difficult to rely on. If passive regeneration is increased across the board and bridge officer heals reduced I would be happy with that as it would make combat decisions much more strategic. I remember when I had to break combat in my escorts from time to time if I didn't want to die.... good times.
With proper investment passive regeneration for your hull can be quite powerful, some of my fleetmates tanks are true zombies.
Comments
In case you weren't aware, it has been mentioned a few times that Borticus is well aware of the fact that Sci powers are currently NOT performing properly as a result of the Aux power re-scaling, and every single powers calculations need to be rewritten one by one.
Not trying to belittle, but it seems like one of the things that got buried in the sea of Leechers complaining
At anyrate, overall I'm happy with the new skill system - it flows better then the skill points system, it's easier to follow then the old system, it fit's in better aesthetically then the points system, & it should be easier for new players to understand. I think think the retrain autoblank everything is excessive, and a couple things I wouldn't mind seeing would be nice. But overall, I think it does move in the right direction.
I'm aware, and it's one of the other points which is in the back of my mind to bring up once I've found the right way I want to articulate it. As near as I can tell the subsystem power levels are all (bar weap, much shock, very DPS pander, meh) nerfed for higher skill-related interaction which begs the point, why have subsystem power at all if it's effectiveness is to be actively reduced?
Does anyone else remember the 25th anniversary Star Trek games? I think my first interaction with a subsystem power balance was the Game Boy version back in, when was that, 1992? It really hasn't changed a whole lot since then and it's been a fairly workable system even with the changes which have brought it to it's current (not new revamp) state, so I wonder why that's being slapped down?
Perhaps the issue with drains isn't an issue with drains at all. Perhaps the issues come back to a lack of reasonable background mechanics on how drains interact with their targets and with the various power boosts which exist through the game as a whole, all of which takes us back to this revamp not addressing issues which could've been sorted under the old system anyway...
I'm going to bring this up every time someone mentions the leech, it's getting to the point where I feel I need a signature to hammer some of these points home since they're continually overlooked. I'll get to other points when I feel up to it, but really, this new skill system combined with obvious nerfs is being handled really badly. One at a time would've allowed us to gauge it all so much more easily; that they're being done at the same time leads to speculation of what's being hidden intentionally.
Someone said it somewhere and I can't find it to reference it now so I'll have to paraphrase.
This dev team specifically has a history of saying one thing and doing another. Of actively and underhandedly sneaking in stealth changes to the game, usually after having received an investment from players for whatever new thing that's been added. When your announcement contains claims that indicate simplification, core mechanics changes and retention of value it's not mere cynicism which has most players actively complaining or (perhaps overly) scrutinising the changes, it's basic sense and learned behaviour from existing history.
So yeah, there are some good things. I've mentioned them in passing, here and there, when they come up, but mostly I don't want to draw attention to them out of worry as to what might happen when the dev team tinkers with them from here on out. Realistically, they've only got themselves to blame for such reactions though.
Stop new content until quality returns
Can I have GDF then since we are talking about boosts that others don't get? You get my sensor scan debuff when I use it. I don't get to share your damage boost.
Putting their best shoe forward would have been, "Look, we thought it all over, and decided to use the revamp to majorly nerf some things. We know you probably won't like it, but there it is." THAT would have been straightforward and honest. Instead, we got "players lose nothing" and "investments in equipment and ships retain full value."
'Constructive feedback to the skill revamp.' includes mentioning, clearly, when, under the new paradigm, things appear to get nerfed. And then, turns out, the nerfs were very much intentional. 'Communication breakdown' anyone?!
ROFL
And that means exactly nothing to me, a Fed Engineer.
I'm not opposed to Specializations in the Skills tab, but right now, I just don't like how it's presented to players.
I try to give the benefit of the doubt on things like that, some of it I believe comes from their testing process they implemented around the time the Vesta was released on Tribble. They test ships based on a small group of selected people (or did at that time) instead of the whole of Tribble, so it has a lot less exposure to catching bugs or bad interactions (and you can't try it before you buy it of course). I've not bought but maybe two or three ships since then due to that change in testing, plus the lockbox items and skills never get tested like the rep projects do. I think a change to this policy would go a long way to increase transparency to bugs and issues (and likely player-dev trust), especially where it concerns semi-paid content.
The changes from this patch are very psychological (It affects characters some people have played for 6 years after all). People read the patch notes and see "Aux power has been readjusted and exotic damage has been normalized" and log into Tribble and see the low numbers so people think "This is intended? It was in the patch notes, it must be." People freak out till they see a post that Aux power influencing science abilities was of by a decimal place, so they mostly relax and wait for the next build. The next build they see that their damage is mostly ok, matches the math that was expected, but now the other effects are broken and that doesn't seem to be in the notes. They see a forum post that those are broken now as well, so they mostly relax again to wait for a new build. They see a post that "Plasmonic Leech is going to have to be rebalanced and your build shouldn't rely on it/affect it so heavily" and people freak out again "I spent so much money on that console", "This ruins my build, I've wasted so many resources on it", "I can't play that character anymore without it". People in general try to relax as it is simply in testing, but at the same time they need to voice how important it is to make sure it is heard by devs, but emotions and salt tend to leak out.
Do they?! Seems Bort has disabled the Science stats on our ships. Lovely!
a) Hull regen rate almost cut in half (153% vs. 86% now), with 1 point in Damage Control;
b) Plasmonic Leech went from 2.9 to 2.2;
c) Major shield cap inconsistency between what UI says I have (~10k), and what hovering over the actual shield reports back (~7K);
d) Major (quite unexpected) boost in Shield Regen, though: 678 (!) on my Iconian shield, with 2 points in Shield Regen. Saying it here probably means they'll immediately nerf it again, LOL, but for now it looks good.
e) Science stats have been disabled (on purpose?), so I can't tell what gravens and/or pargens amount to exactly.
I've resorted to manually adding them up based on gear stats. It may or may not be accurate but so far, they seem to check out (equal to Holodeck + 1 from the skill tree).
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The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
I checked and can replicate my current skill layout almost exactly plus a little extra... there are just a lot of good choices now so it's harder to decide how I want things. On my first build I went for the science ultimate just because, In any case the math says you can replicate almost any skill layout very closely if you really want to.
This is one of the worst analogies I've seen in the entire internet.
First - the difference in desireability between an item being gamebreaking in an MMO and a device being gamebreaking vs dying in a car crash moots the whole thing. Overpowered safety equipment is a good thing. Overpowered items in an MMO are not.
Second - infant child seats ARE overpowered! Thank goodness they are:
Source: iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/child-safety/fatalityfacts/child-safety
Don't get me wrong, I've been feeling anxiety about the changes, just reserving judgement during the initial patches and trying to be constructive without being too salty.
a) I'm curious about hull regen myself, but I elected to just avoid it since it doesn't work so well in combat, mine is 80% on Tribble and 135% on Holodeck.
b) Yeah, this one is a consequence of the meshing of DrainX and retuning, but it is a loss of 6 power levels at 8 stacks. With that math, the modifier for the console would comparatively be at .006 vs .01, so you'd need 316 DrainX vs 190 flow caps to reach the previous levels you had. DBR and Tyken's rift both lost about 50% of their exotic damage, so I'm feeling that a bit.
c) The UI on Holodeck is the same, the ship UI seems to go off of it's modifier I believe (Such as ~1.3 for some science ships)
d) I'm loving it, the shield regen skill is a nice addition to the trees.
e)CtrlX seems the be the most affected, probably lost something in the stat translation from Grav Gens to CtrlX, and Aux used to control the radius of GW as well, so that could also be affected. As for Part Gens/EPG they seem to match up to the new Aux scaling, GW comes out ahead by about 10%, Subspace Rift also seems to have gained 18%, Tyken's Rift and DBR lost about 50% of their damage. The deteriorating deflector also lost some of it's radiation damage, about 15%. The electrical damage for my Tyken's is ~450 without buffs, so it has added a bit back to it's damage, I'd like to see it get more DrainX/EPG boost though.
Overall I have to say I feel more survivable (Shield Regen and Hardness Trees), my power levels have changed somewhat, and I've gained some nice shield and hull penetration. I've given up some resistances and hull regen, but I'm feeling a bit more survivable and damage potent (with torps, they lost a minor 300 dps, but the extra pen is nice).
You're so incredibly missing the point, it's not even funy any more. This is not about car seats vs. Leech, but simply about the (faulty) reasoning that 'X is being used a lot, therefore X must be overpowered.' My car seat example merely showed exactly that: being used a lot means... absolutely nothing, in terms of needing a nerf.
I was playing Starbase 234 as I use this as one of my metrics when evaluating builds and such (Along with Borg stuff) to test my effectiveness as I was replicating my build.. Which I have done rather acceptably.. Though, when I was in Starbase 234 the Frigates seemed way too resilient than they should be..
I thought maybe I screwed up my build but after I finally killed the three Miranda Class ships I was able to tear through the next ship which is randomly selected but it is an Escort or Cruiser.. I did the runs a number of times and was able and managed to verify the 2nd wave ship's hull is about if not exactly the same on Holodeck but the Frigate NPCs seem to have way too much hull on Tribble.
Holodeck
Federation Frigate Hull: 51,622
-VS-
Tribble
Federation Frigate Hull: 268,436
This is way higher than the 2nd wave NPC (either a cruiser or escort) and way out of whack with Holodeck.. This does seem to be the case where ever any NPC Miranda ships happen to be.
Now, other than Federation Frigates everything else seems to be unaffected and consistant with NPC ships on Holodeck.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
On Live, I have "Hull Repair" maxed out, and once I maxed "Damage Control" on test my regen went back to where it was.
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
I know it's a bug, but I can't help but grin at the thought of a Miranda being "Overpowered".
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
So, 6 points needed, wheretofore I needed just '3'? (3x packets of 3 = 9 old points). I can't afford to spend that much.
Under the current system each skill has nine pips to put points into, and you can start filling them the moment you have enough skill points to fill them, up to a level determined restriction. This allows players to do two things: improve their skills and performance at a smooth, constant rate, and by building in such fine detail, construct a character that is more fine-tuned to that particular player's style or wants.
This new system, however, forces players to spend the same resources in large chunks that preclude the possibility of fine-tuning for personal preference. This, coupled with the fact that you only receive spendable resources every five levels makes improvement a much more jagged, jerking experience.
If it weren't for the loss of resolution and the inclusion of decision gates I'd probably be fine with the new system and skill options. I can adapt, so long as I'm not being railroaded into a limited choice, especially after having more creative freedom before.
It isn't going to happen.. It was asked about in a podcast and he said no.
That is a good point.
Shield regen - saw slight increase, compared to holodeck values, even with 0 points in tribble. Really-really hoping it's intended.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
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That's true, but they also eliminated and cut back on a few skills in Engineering. Did you have any points spent in "Driver Coil"?
They also cut armor reinforcement from 2 branches to 1, and the subsystem power branches from 4 to 2. So that's 4 branches eliminated to 1 added.
I have 90 points spent in engineering on Holodeck, equivalent to 30 on Tribble, and yet it only cost me 24 to replicate my build in that part.
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
With proper investment passive regeneration for your hull can be quite powerful, some of my fleetmates tanks are true zombies.