Just with the tiniest preview we've seen that my skill set up on my Narcine will not be exactly the same as a typical antiproton/BFAW layout. Even more so if there's stuff to amplify the effectiveness of the xindi auto-turret I have on it.
Kinda wish this poll could filter results by folks that have actually tried out the new system on Tribble, and those that're jumping to conclusions which may or may not be accurate.
I hadn't tried it on Tribble, however I'm having a positive look to it. I think its much needed as the gaming has changed. Even other games redo their "Spec Trees" as their games change over the years.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I have wanted a skill revamp for a long time. As a long(ish)-time player, I am moderately familiar with how skills in this game work. As a newbie 2.5 years ago, I was presented with a baffling array of options, expounded upon almost exclusively by tooltips that describe the skills accurately but superficially, and without any real indication of the tactical depth any particular option offered. I still regularly see skill choices discussed on these fora that I don't altogether understand because of the steepness of the learning curve.
What I want, what I hope to get and what I (only distantly) fear I will not get is a more transparent system that retains the nuance of what we have now.
I've tested it a bit and I have to say the tooltips are a major improvement over what we have now. They give detailed information about what each skill gives you when you spec into it, which is huge. The layout is also easy to follow as a whole, though some different icons for different skills would be nice. Right now they all have the same icons and it can get confusing.
One downside I've noticed about it though is that when you're messing around with skill point placement there's no undo button, i.e. once you place a point somewhere you cannot replace it somewhere else unless you use a respec token. When this goes live that really needs to be changed, as with the current system you can fuddle around with your points for hours before actually hitting the "commit" button.
Also, though I understand why they're only allowing new characters on Tribble right now, they really need to let us import our Holodeck server characters sooner than a week from now. I and I'm sure the vast majority of players, are way more concerned with how this revamp is going to affect our current builds and max-level characters rather than how they'll affect the leveling process of our yet-to-be-created alts.
Also, though I understand why they're only allowing new characters on Tribble right now, they really need to let us import our Holodeck server characters sooner than a week from now. I and I'm sure the vast majority of players, are way more concerned with how this revamp is going to affect our current builds and max-level characters rather than how they'll affect the leveling process of our yet-to-be-created alts.
^^ Very much this! This new toon gives me absolutely no idea what the effect of the skill revamp is on my endgear. For comparison, I need to have my 'real' toon copied over. So, yeah, hopefully faster than a week.
I have not really tested the skill revamp in battle yet but just toying with it a little I have to say
It has a wonky parts but in general it looks to be an upgrade over what we have now. Right now there is some MAJOR rewards for focusing in one tree over the others but this means you get a lot of "I don't really 'need' this skill I just have to have it for the science/tactical/engineering tree" and that is weird
Kinda wish this poll could filter results by folks that have actually tried out the new system on Tribble, and those that're jumping to conclusions which may or may not be accurate.
Updated Tribble, wasted time doing the tutorial, and tried out the new system
1) It still reminds me way too much of the Vanilla WoW skill system. While I agree a skill revamp was needed, this is not the revamp I was looking for.
2) The first Tactical Unlock is completely useless to anyone who does not have either a cloaking device (or similar skill), or a hangar. That is a LARGE portion of the player base that gets absolutely no benefit, while the Eng and Sci have at least one option each that DOES do something for you.
3) Admiral level skills are all kinda ... lame for high end skills, with the exception of the engineer warp core skills which will likely be mandatory.
4) [BUG] Starting at level two, the little alert in the top left corner that says "Spend Skill Points" starts flashing, even though you can't spend them until level 5.
Kinda wish this poll could filter results by folks that have actually tried out the new system on Tribble, and those that're jumping to conclusions which may or may not be accurate.
I hadn't tried it on Tribble, however I'm having a positive look to it. I think its much needed as the gaming has changed. Even other games redo their "Spec Trees" as their games change over the years.
Yeah Blizzard does that. Not often, but when they do it's pretty thorough. I remember the one they did for Diablo 2. One patch added passive skill bonuses. Mostly it was just stuff like "This skill gets bonus damage if you have points in that other skill." But some of the bonuses were weird, and certain skills got an entire list of bonuses that way.
Needless to say a lot of people's builds were trashed as a result... but some got better over night, and no there were no free respecs. this change didn't invalidate skill choices it just changed their relative values.... greatly.
As someone with 5 science captains, with various levels of "suboptimal builds I like," I couldn't disagree more with you. Without actually playing with the new system, you can't say that your output would be cut in half. Maybe it will be worse. Maybe it will be better. But I'd be willing to bet 1m EC it won't (by itself) halve your damage. A lot of hyperbole there. You might want to try it, first, maybe?
I can't believe I'm the voice of optimism for any kind of overhaul, but it does look like a boost for science.
A note from a tester in the tribble forum - "all bridge officer and captain abilities that scale on Auxiliary power are 42% weaker on Tribble in comparison to Holodeck."
So you're right only 42% not 50.
If you then add in all the skills I will not be able to have at all anymore the overall reduction will likely be more like 75% though not all of this will be dps because i'll have to sacrifice all my defense to maintain some of that.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
one skill merger i imagine is that Starship Warp Core Efficiency and Starship Warp Core Potential will become one, i always found it odd that they had 2 separate warp core boosting skill slots
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
I personally for myself do not need it. I know what to pick for what type of character. For my personal efficiency to play the game I would prefer not to relearn/respec especially since that usually comes not with a better & better explained but a made for dummys with less choice/diversity than ever revamp.
I still have chosen "Yes", I do want a revamp for STO. As it is its clunky, lousy explained and intimidates potential new players instead of inviting them to play around with it. As it currently is some even might see it as desperate marketing ploy to sell respec tokens.
Kinda wish this poll could filter results by folks that have actually tried out the new system on Tribble, and those that're jumping to conclusions which may or may not be accurate.
I hadn't tried it on Tribble, however I'm having a positive look to it. I think its much needed as the gaming has changed. Even other games redo their "Spec Trees" as their games change over the years.
Yeah Blizzard does that. Not often, but when they do it's pretty thorough. I remember the one they did for Diablo 2. One patch added passive skill bonuses. Mostly it was just stuff like "This skill gets bonus damage if you have points in that other skill." But some of the bonuses were weird, and certain skills got an entire list of bonuses that way.
Needless to say a lot of people's builds were trashed as a result... but some got better over night, and no there were no free respecs. this change didn't invalidate skill choices it just changed their relative values.... greatly.
However the only bad thing about Blizzard's way, for a long time they offered a "cookie cutter" build. So you couldn't pick the ones you wanted. Until you cleared a tree then could work on the other set.
This is the only problem I have, as they will throw in specs we don't need in there. And end up wasting points to clear the tree.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
And for what i just read i have only two words... "TRIBBLE you". 75% less power in all aspects, offense and defense?
Are you serious craptic?
As of now, i can take my Connie, fly to Khitomer and kick the TRIBBLE out of the Borg there.
After that revamp (should it come that way) i would even be challenged, when i use my Breen warship.
You seriously need to stop right now, on that matter!
Or it could just be what you read and started raving about is completely untrue.
This is just another cheap trick to monetize another aspect of this game. Mark my words there will be new skills coming out in lockboxes or some other money-grubbing trick in the next few weeks and months.
In addition, it'll be a mostly-non function bug ridden mess that players will have to suffer for months with until they finally get around to fixiing it like the forgetful BOFFs who would just walk away from their bridge stations before a battle after the Boff revamp.
looks pretty much the same as current system but hanging vert instead of horizontal, some things are moved around or renamed but I can see how my current build slots into what's there, probably end up with a nearly even amount of points in each career tree meaning I'll have no access to the ultimates but can't see how I can reach them without gimping power, defence or damage depending on which tree I fill out. energy weapons and torps are still separate skill paths. in a way the combined skills make me think one cookie cutter build could fit multiple toons, careers and ships without needing much adjustment.
Getting those missing skill points from level 1 to 4 would be nice to round out a few trees
All these talents from reputation not being able to use need more unlocks in this area
Lol, they used to allow all those rep traits to be active at the same time, they changed it to the current system some time ago to cut back on power levels, they are not likely to reverse course on it this long afterwards.
Indeed. Some reality needs to get injected around here.
Kinda wish this poll could filter results by folks that have actually tried out the new system on Tribble, and those that're jumping to conclusions which may or may not be accurate.
I hadn't tried it on Tribble, however I'm having a positive look to it. I think its much needed as the gaming has changed. Even other games redo their "Spec Trees" as their games change over the years.
Yeah Blizzard does that. Not often, but when they do it's pretty thorough. I remember the one they did for Diablo 2. One patch added passive skill bonuses. Mostly it was just stuff like "This skill gets bonus damage if you have points in that other skill." But some of the bonuses were weird, and certain skills got an entire list of bonuses that way.
Needless to say a lot of people's builds were trashed as a result... but some got better over night, and no there were no free respecs. this change didn't invalidate skill choices it just changed their relative values.... greatly.
However the only bad thing about Blizzard's way, for a long time they offered a "cookie cutter" build. So you couldn't pick the ones you wanted. Until you cleared a tree then could work on the other set.
This is the only problem I have, as they will throw in specs we don't need in there. And end up wasting points to clear the tree.
Yeah lots of cases where unrelated skills were used as requirements.
Which is why it affected Sorceresses little. Sorc skills had less variety. All it really changed was what was the best. If you'd heavily invested in fire skills well, your fire skills were better than before since the fire tree and ice tree didn't use each other as synergies. Barbarians and Paladins though.... It was often "why on earth does this skill get a synergy from THAT???"
As far as ship customizations after this system goes live, I feel we went from The Next Generation back into to The Original Series ... simplistic borderline cookie cutter builds which basically require no thought process ... this gives me memories of SOE, Smedley and the Star Wars Galaxies NGE ...
Yes it needs an overhawl but they need to be careful with how its done if they go to far in trying to make things simple they will destroy you being able to fly more than one type of ship or build.
However at the same time right now as the game stands you might aswell just be a tactical officer as at end game all you need is DPS and that class does it best so why be anything else? Hopefully this is also a stealth balance and will start to bring the game back to the trinity system being needed in group content.
The people have spoken, we wanted a revamp just like I said. The numbers would be even higher if this was a real in game poll because there is a higher concentration of complainers on the forums than in game.
I get the feeling the poll results didn't end up how the OP wanted... lol
Comments
I hadn't tried it on Tribble, however I'm having a positive look to it. I think its much needed as the gaming has changed. Even other games redo their "Spec Trees" as their games change over the years.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
What I want, what I hope to get and what I (only distantly) fear I will not get is a more transparent system that retains the nuance of what we have now.
One downside I've noticed about it though is that when you're messing around with skill point placement there's no undo button, i.e. once you place a point somewhere you cannot replace it somewhere else unless you use a respec token. When this goes live that really needs to be changed, as with the current system you can fuddle around with your points for hours before actually hitting the "commit" button.
Also, though I understand why they're only allowing new characters on Tribble right now, they really need to let us import our Holodeck server characters sooner than a week from now. I and I'm sure the vast majority of players, are way more concerned with how this revamp is going to affect our current builds and max-level characters rather than how they'll affect the leveling process of our yet-to-be-created alts.
^^ Very much this! This new toon gives me absolutely no idea what the effect of the skill revamp is on my endgear. For comparison, I need to have my 'real' toon copied over. So, yeah, hopefully faster than a week.
It has a wonky parts but in general it looks to be an upgrade over what we have now. Right now there is some MAJOR rewards for focusing in one tree over the others but this means you get a lot of "I don't really 'need' this skill I just have to have it for the science/tactical/engineering tree" and that is weird
Edit: Bad might be too strong of a word
Updated Tribble, wasted time doing the tutorial, and tried out the new system
1) It still reminds me way too much of the Vanilla WoW skill system. While I agree a skill revamp was needed, this is not the revamp I was looking for.
2) The first Tactical Unlock is completely useless to anyone who does not have either a cloaking device (or similar skill), or a hangar. That is a LARGE portion of the player base that gets absolutely no benefit, while the Eng and Sci have at least one option each that DOES do something for you.
3) Admiral level skills are all kinda ... lame for high end skills, with the exception of the engineer warp core skills which will likely be mandatory.
4) [BUG] Starting at level two, the little alert in the top left corner that says "Spend Skill Points" starts flashing, even though you can't spend them until level 5.
Needless to say a lot of people's builds were trashed as a result... but some got better over night, and no there were no free respecs. this change didn't invalidate skill choices it just changed their relative values.... greatly.
My character Tsin'xing
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
I still have chosen "Yes", I do want a revamp for STO. As it is its clunky, lousy explained and intimidates potential new players instead of inviting them to play around with it. As it currently is some even might see it as desperate marketing ploy to sell respec tokens.
However the only bad thing about Blizzard's way, for a long time they offered a "cookie cutter" build. So you couldn't pick the ones you wanted. Until you cleared a tree then could work on the other set.
This is the only problem I have, as they will throw in specs we don't need in there. And end up wasting points to clear the tree.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Or it could just be what you read and started raving about is completely untrue.
This is just another cheap trick to monetize another aspect of this game. Mark my words there will be new skills coming out in lockboxes or some other money-grubbing trick in the next few weeks and months.
In addition, it'll be a mostly-non function bug ridden mess that players will have to suffer for months with until they finally get around to fixiing it like the forgetful BOFFs who would just walk away from their bridge stations before a battle after the Boff revamp.
Mark my words, I'm calling it here.
Getting those missing skill points from level 1 to 4 would be nice to round out a few trees
Indeed. Some reality needs to get injected around here.
Which is why it affected Sorceresses little. Sorc skills had less variety. All it really changed was what was the best. If you'd heavily invested in fire skills well, your fire skills were better than before since the fire tree and ice tree didn't use each other as synergies. Barbarians and Paladins though.... It was often "why on earth does this skill get a synergy from THAT???"
My character Tsin'xing
However at the same time right now as the game stands you might aswell just be a tactical officer as at end game all you need is DPS and that class does it best so why be anything else? Hopefully this is also a stealth balance and will start to bring the game back to the trinity system being needed in group content.
I get the feeling the poll results didn't end up how the OP wanted... lol