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Do you want a Skill Revamp?

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  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    The people have spoken, we wanted a revamp just like I said. The numbers would be even higher if this was a real in game poll because there is a higher concentration of complainers on the forums than in game.

    I get the feeling the poll results didn't end up how the OP wanted... lol

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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,166 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Here is the interesting thing about polls...

    If the poll shows people do want something the devs are doing(which this one does), a person will say "see, the devs are doing what the players want!".

    But if the poll shows people *don't* want something the devs are doing, a person will say that the people who use the forums are only a small percent of the players and do not accurately represent the total playerbase.

    So no matter what the results show, it will be spun whichever way the person wants.

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  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    farmallm wrote: »
    farmallm wrote: »
    Kinda wish this poll could filter results by folks that have actually tried out the new system on Tribble, and those that're jumping to conclusions which may or may not be accurate.
    I hadn't tried it on Tribble, however I'm having a positive look to it. I think its much needed as the gaming has changed. Even other games redo their "Spec Trees" as their games change over the years.
    Yeah Blizzard does that. Not often, but when they do it's pretty thorough. I remember the one they did for Diablo 2. One patch added passive skill bonuses. Mostly it was just stuff like "This skill gets bonus damage if you have points in that other skill." But some of the bonuses were weird, and certain skills got an entire list of bonuses that way.

    Needless to say a lot of people's builds were trashed as a result... but some got better over night, and no there were no free respecs. this change didn't invalidate skill choices it just changed their relative values.... greatly.

    However the only bad thing about Blizzard's way, for a long time they offered a "cookie cutter" build. So you couldn't pick the ones you wanted. Until you cleared a tree then could work on the other set.

    This is the only problem I have, as they will throw in specs we don't need in there. And end up wasting points to clear the tree.
    Yeah lots of cases where unrelated skills were used as requirements.

    Which is why it affected Sorceresses little. Sorc skills had less variety. All it really changed was what was the best. If you'd heavily invested in fire skills well, your fire skills were better than before since the fire tree and ice tree didn't use each other as synergies. Barbarians and Paladins though.... It was often "why on earth does this skill get a synergy from THAT???"

    Very true, and it usually made my head hurt trying to figure it out. :p

    I like the idea of putting them say tac, sci, eng. However let us pick what to invest in. Like the set up we have now. But more refined. That is what I like to see.
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  • ogariousogarious Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    Just returning, so a skill revamp might make things a bit easier for me coming back then for you guys who have been here.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    I took a looksee and came up with this for my science captain.

    ENG tree -
    1 hull cap
    1 hull plate
    2 EPS
    1 defense power
    1 offense power
    1 warp core

    SCI tree -
    1 shield cap
    1 shield hardness
    2 control
    1 control amp
    1 drain
    3 exotic
    2 long range
    1 science readiness

    TAC tree -
    all through captain
    then 1 in tac readiness
    to unlock the ultimate ability frenzied assault.

    Basically I traded almost all my defense and power systems to keep my science and tac as they were.
    If it turns out that the tac ultimate isn't anything special I'll have maybe 4 points to put back into defense or power (depending also on how much the leech is nerfed and if aux power and sci abilities are even still playable at all).

    If you are a TAC you can rest easy. There are plenty of points available to max all in tac plus EPS and some power and a smattering of defense.

    The ones particularly screwed are tac sci hybrid like myself. Basically, if you can ignore most of one of the trees (a tac ignoring science) you're in great shape. Otherwise you will be losing a lot from your current build to maintain your offensive capabilities.

    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • vengefuldjinnvengefuldjinn Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    risian4 wrote: »
    Skill revamp wasn't really needed imo. But we don't know yet what we'll be getting so... it might turn out to be better than what we have.

    But there are two things that, based on the information we have so far, I'm not going to like: I'm not a fan of combining skills, especially science ones. And the loss of an option to specialise more in ground combat is disappointing too.

    You know, call me slow, but I keep tryin to understand how it's going to impact me and I just can't tell.

    I asked the questions: "I's this going to take away some of my effectiveness that I currently enjoy as a science captain?" and If so, "Will I have to grind back some of my skills to get back to where I am now ?" and I didn't get an answer, so I haven't a clue how this is going to ultimately go down. This makes me a little anxious TBH.

    So I can't form an opinion at this time, BUT as I often do, in the face of no information: I'm hoping for the best, but bracing for the worst.

    I've got my captain just where I want him skill-wise now, it's gear upgrades that keep me busy, VERY BUSY. Trying to obtain the newest gear, upgrading everything, figuring the best combinations of gear in which to use.

    I REALLY don't want another grind or money sink, like the upgrade system has been, I REALLY hope this skill revamp isn't turning skills into one.


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  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    risian4 wrote: »
    Skill revamp wasn't really needed imo. But we don't know yet what we'll be getting so... it might turn out to be better than what we have.

    But there are two things that, based on the information we have so far, I'm not going to like: I'm not a fan of combining skills, especially science ones. And the loss of an option to specialise more in ground combat is disappointing too.

    You know, call me slow, but I keep tryin to understand how it's going to impact me and I just can't tell.

    I asked the questions: "I's this going to take away some of my effectiveness that I currently enjoy as a science captain?" and If so, "Will I have to grind back some some of my skills to get back to where I am now ?" and I didn't get an answer, so I haven't a clue how this is going to ultimately go down.

    So I can't form an opinion at this time, BUT as I often do, in the face of no information,


    Those questions are really hard to answer right now, at least for other players. But that will probably change once we can copy our holodeck characters over next week (right now we can only create new ones).

    I'm eager to find out. I'm also worried about the effectiveness of my science character, but without access to fleet stuff, upgraded gear etc. it's very difficult to compare things.

    One thing that I can tell you is that ground kit modules did not have their cooldown timers increased. I was fearing this would be the case, since we get some new options to reduce them. But even without those options active, my medical tricorder still had a cooldown of 8 seconds. Actual effectiveness is, again, hard to compare since I don't have a fleet medical tricorder. Again, such things will be much easier to evaluate next week.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    I took a looksee and came up with this for my science captain.

    ENG tree -
    1 hull cap
    1 hull plate
    2 EPS
    1 defense power
    1 offense power
    1 warp core

    SCI tree -
    1 shield cap
    1 shield hardness
    2 control
    1 control amp
    1 drain
    3 exotic
    2 long range
    1 science readiness

    TAC tree -
    all through captain
    then 1 in tac readiness
    to unlock the ultimate ability frenzied assault.

    Basically I traded almost all my defense and power systems to keep my science and tac as they were.
    If it turns out that the tac ultimate isn't anything special I'll have maybe 4 points to put back into defense or power (depending also on how much the leech is nerfed and if aux power and sci abilities are even still playable at all).

    If you are a TAC you can rest easy. There are plenty of points available to max all in tac plus EPS and some power and a smattering of defense.

    The ones particularly screwed are tac sci hybrid like myself. Basically, if you can ignore most of one of the trees (a tac ignoring science) you're in great shape. Otherwise you will be losing a lot from your current build to maintain your offensive capabilities.

    Hm specialised in torpedoes here so I don't think I'll need all tac abilities. I've actually found that I could keep a significant part of my skills the same. And you must admit, those 2 long range and 1 science readiness you chose are things we didn't have before so it's only natural that you lost some other skills ;)
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    Go down to the tribble section and read the official thread about it bort is being quite open in his discussions and explaining the changes and how most builds can be replicated almost exactly which he even demonstrates to some people.

    Now stop whining about things you refuse to research, your being ignorant and stupid.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    Go down to the tribble section and read the official thread about it bort is being quite open in his discussions and explaining the changes and how most builds can be replicated almost exactly which he even demonstrates to some people.

    Now stop whining about things you refuse to research, your being ignorant and stupid.

    I hope that wasn't meant for me...

    I don't need anyone to show me how to replicate a build. Hate it in fact, the copy pasting of builds :)
    Just saying that it'll be much easier to compare things ourselves next week. And figure things out ourselves. Right now it's only limited possible to research things ourselves.
  • sylveriareldensylveriarelden Member Posts: 531 Arc User
    IMO, the skill revamp feels like a "genericization" of the skill system. There's a reason your career path choice is supposed to limit/enhance your abilities later on- and if they aren't careful with how they proceed here it's going to make your career choice completely meaningless.

    That said, I understand completely why people want to be "as good" as a Science Captain with their Tactical Captain flying around in a Science ship, etc. but the whole point of the Career Path system was designed to affect your choices later.

    Sure, let's dumb down all the systems and make them generic- let's make all the choices that actually DEFINE the game completely meaningless. Let's see where this path leads, shall we?

    If you want a combat-oriented Captain- then ROLL one. If you want to specialize in Science ROLL a Science Captain. This BS of we now have to water down the mechanics of the game system because of buyer's remorse is completely ridiculous.

    (tosses in 2 EC)
    It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.

    Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    IMO, the skill revamp feels like a "genericization" of the skill system. There's a reason your career path choice is supposed to limit/enhance your abilities later on- and if they aren't careful with how they proceed here it's going to make your career choice completely meaningless.

    That said, I understand completely why people want to be "as good" as a Science Captain with their Tactical Captain flying around in a Science ship, etc. but the whole point of the Career Path system was designed to affect your choices later.

    Sure, let's dumb down all the systems and make them generic- let's make all the choices that actually DEFINE the game completely meaningless. Let's see where this path leads, shall we?

    If you want a combat-oriented Captain- then ROLL one. If you want to specialize in Science ROLL a Science Captain. This BS of we now have to water down the mechanics of the game system because of buyer's remorse is completely ridiculous.

    (tosses in 2 EC)

    Yup. It's one of the reasons why I didn't like the universal ground kit modules from the Herald lock boxes. Ground combat is the part of the game where career actually defines your possibilities a lot more - new kit modules with abilities for everyone or kits from the Research lab like Vascular regenerator for tacs are slowly changing this however and I don't like it.

    More options for each career specifically are always good, but each career has to be attractive too. And that's not the case if they're all made the same.

    Edit: I don't think the skill revamp will make everything more generic btw. There's certain bonuses for specialising in a certain career and that's a good thing. Of course you can change it later on, but having to pay for such a change is reasonable I think.
  • sylveriareldensylveriarelden Member Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    risian4 wrote: »
    IMO, the skill revamp feels like a "genericization" of the skill system. There's a reason your career path choice is supposed to limit/enhance your abilities later on- and if they aren't careful with how they proceed here it's going to make your career choice completely meaningless.

    That said, I understand completely why people want to be "as good" as a Science Captain with their Tactical Captain flying around in a Science ship, etc. but the whole point of the Career Path system was designed to affect your choices later.

    Sure, let's dumb down all the systems and make them generic- let's make all the choices that actually DEFINE the game completely meaningless. Let's see where this path leads, shall we?

    If you want a combat-oriented Captain- then ROLL one. If you want to specialize in Science ROLL a Science Captain. This BS of we now have to water down the mechanics of the game system because of buyer's remorse is completely ridiculous.

    (tosses in 2 EC)

    Yup. It's one of the reasons why I didn't like the universal ground kit modules from the Herald lock boxes. Ground combat is the part of the game where career actually defines your possibilities a lot more - new kit modules with abilities for everyone or kits from the Research lab like Vascular regenerator for tacs are slowly changing this however and I don't like it.

    More options for each career specifically are always good, but each career has to be attractive too. And that's not the case if they're all made the same.

    It's also why we end up with travesties such as "Fallcry 4" these days- because whiny kids (maturity, not physical age) who can't understand there's a reason why things are different want everything to be the same because laziness. No, instead we have to make everything watery and weak so they can just jump right in as a maxed out elite character with all the best gear available so they don't have to put any GD work into it.

    "But... but... I don't wanna have to read 4 lines of dialogue then make a complicated choice!!!!! Waaaaaa!!!!"

    Very sad.
    It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.

    Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
  • ladymyajhaladymyajha Member Posts: 1,428 Arc User
    What I have noticed about the new skill system is that you become stronger in certain areas but you can no longer do everything like you used to do. Most people I see complain and have the courage to back up their arguements with builds seem to dislike the idea that you no longer can do everything and must now pick and choose.

    My guess though is that is exactly what Cryptic wants to stop. They want to put an end to the 125k dps monsters with enough survivability to solo isa. The new skill system is design, I think, to remove this and promote more balanced builds. How much dps are you willing to give up for what level of survivability? It'll also bring back the need for healing ships.

    I get it that this isn't what everyone wants, but this gqme is severely unbalanced and needs something to fix the out of control power creep.
  • fleudermausfleudermaus Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    Scrap the revamp and use the time the Devs would be wasting on something neither wanted nor needed and FIX THE EXISTING PROBLEMS in the game.

    You could start by moving the prize drop for the "City" Hard mode mission in the Defera Invasion Zone further away from the starting point and/or set a cool down timer on the start console in the same way that the Obelisk in the Temple run has a cool down timer. This could likely be solved by simply editing the location of the drop in a single line of code.

    Honestly, please focus on fixing existing issues before introducing massive new problems.
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  • sylveriareldensylveriarelden Member Posts: 531 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Scrap the revamp and use the time the Devs would be wasting on something neither wanted nor needed and FIX THE EXISTING PROBLEMS in the game.

    Honestly, please focus on fixing existing issues before introducing massive new problems.

    Sometimes I wonder if they do this purposely to keep the community divided so they're not focusing on such issues. It's the oldest tactic in the book, after all.

    Keep em fighting amongst themselves so they forget who's actually causing the problems to begin with.

    "Hey we're at a loss of what to introduce into the game- oh here's an idea, let's do a skill revamp so they'll have to focus on that mess instead!"
    It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.

    Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
  • farmallmfarmallm Member Posts: 4,630 Arc User
    My only concern is the Tac captain in the D'Deridex. I did that for a reason.
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  • cryptiecopcryptiecop Member Posts: 239 Arc User
    samt1996 wrote: »
    Go down to the tribble section and read the official thread about it bort is being quite open in his discussions and explaining the changes and how most builds can be replicated almost exactly which he even demonstrates to some people.

    Now stop whining about things you refuse to research, your being ignorant and stupid.

    The funny thing about all of this is:

    6 months down the road after this goes live, they are going to still get brand new players who will look at this new system, get confused, and type into chat "what do I spec my points into ?" ... LOL
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  • sylveriareldensylveriarelden Member Posts: 531 Arc User
    I think it's a "divide and conquer" tactic being used to keep people fighting amongst themselves- so they don't focus on how badly they're being bent over the table with C-Store pricing and lack of actual new playable content.
    "Sire, sire! The peasants are revolting!"
    "Yes, they are, aren't they?"

    Just toss a wrench into the mix and watch everyone squabble. Works every time, and it's the oldest tactic in the book.
    It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.

    Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
  • cryptiecopcryptiecop Member Posts: 239 Arc User
    I think it's a "divide and conquer" tactic being used to keep people fighting amongst themselves- so they don't focus on how badly they're being bent over the table with C-Store pricing and lack of actual new playable content.
    "Sire, sire! The peasants are revolting!"
    "Yes, they are, aren't they?"

    Just toss a wrench into the mix and watch everyone squabble. Works every time, and it's the oldest tactic in the book.

    Speaking of C-Store pricing, it wouldn't surprise me if they jack up the price of respect tokens after this goes live ...
    cmbanner2015.jpg
  • hravikhravik Member Posts: 1,203 Arc User
    cryptiecop wrote: »
    I think it's a "divide and conquer" tactic being used to keep people fighting amongst themselves- so they don't focus on how badly they're being bent over the table with C-Store pricing and lack of actual new playable content.
    "Sire, sire! The peasants are revolting!"
    "Yes, they are, aren't they?"

    Just toss a wrench into the mix and watch everyone squabble. Works every time, and it's the oldest tactic in the book.

    Speaking of C-Store pricing, it wouldn't surprise me if they jack up the price of respect tokens after this goes live ...

    Lockbox only skills.
  • sylveriareldensylveriarelden Member Posts: 531 Arc User
    hravik wrote: »
    cryptiecop wrote: »
    I think it's a "divide and conquer" tactic being used to keep people fighting amongst themselves- so they don't focus on how badly they're being bent over the table with C-Store pricing and lack of actual new playable content.
    "Sire, sire! The peasants are revolting!"
    "Yes, they are, aren't they?"

    Just toss a wrench into the mix and watch everyone squabble. Works every time, and it's the oldest tactic in the book.

    Speaking of C-Store pricing, it wouldn't surprise me if they jack up the price of respect tokens after this goes live ...

    Lockbox only skills.

    And the real "racket" behind the lockbox is they get to control the drop rates- at whim.

    Who's to say they don't fluctuate the drop percentages when they announce a lockbox or sale?

    Something to think about, indeed.
    It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.

    Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    Scrap the revamp and use the time the Devs would be wasting on something neither wanted nor needed and FIX THE EXISTING PROBLEMS in the game.

    You could start by moving the prize drop for the "City" Hard mode mission in the Defera Invasion Zone further away from the starting point and/or set a cool down timer on the start console in the same way that the Obelisk in the Temple run has a cool down timer. This could likely be solved by simply editing the location of the drop in a single line of code.

    Honestly, please focus on fixing existing issues before introducing massive new problems.

    this is them fixing an old problem... more then one in fact. and this poll and other threads over years say it has been asked for and needed or did I switch reality again, great I just got used to the old one.


    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • divvydavedivvydave Member Posts: 184 Arc User
    I voted no, it's not that i'm against a revamp i'm just worried about the effect this will have on my build (spent far too long getting them just right to have all my skill tree wiped clean), and how much it will cost me in respec tokens putting it right :(
  • arabaturarabatur Member Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    Love it or hate, this change will happen. Clearly Cryptic has invested heavily in this, so its just of question of when. It's either a simple choice, accept this or move on.
    As this games history has shown, Cryptic does not care what's written on the forums - be it insightful, derogatory or just plain bat sh*t crazy.

    Edit: Why make the poll private?
    Definitely not an Arc User.
  • samt1996samt1996 Member Posts: 2,856 Arc User
    They ARE fixing an issue with the game, a very old and longstanding issue of balance and intuitive design.
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