Explain how more choice is created by a vast reduction of choices.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The problem, whether or not I agree with any of that (I do, Nephitis), is that this is a game. A game with a multitude of various options. Right now, most of those options are either rarely utilized, or flat-out ignored as "garbage." That makes for bad game design. I'm cautiously optimistic that this opens up the game for much more variety (more choices always = good!) and, gasp, fun.
I agree that the current different energy and weapon types are heavy underutilized. If anything I even dislike the current proc system of energy weapons. They could lessen the bonuses but make them fixed or whatever. That way you would actually know when you use a plasma or phaser weapon rather than just different visuals and audio.
Explain how more choice is created by a vast reduction of choices.
Deciding between +94 and +99 on a value that will be added to 280 and then run through a diminishing returns equation so the actual difference is less than one-quarter-of-one-percent is the illusion of choice.
Deciding do I want better performance for my hanger pets or for incoming crits to feedback and burn my attacker's face off once every 30 seconds is a choice.
ha. right now i largely max out all weapon/torpedo abilities, healing and defense abilities, particles/grav, and have decent points into power, flow, and a few other things that aren't useless. All of that will be reduced to a couple of "choices" that really will boil down to all tacs will pick setup A and the small amount of science people will pick trees setup B which will be posted on reddit or tribble forum shortly. Hundreds of choices will be reduced to 2 for almost every single player.
I'm done with trying to create anything interesting in this game. I recently achieved 40,000 with my Paradox. That may not sound like much to most but to me it is very nice and something very different and personally designed for my science captain with polaron/photon. I guarantee that will be gutted back to 20,000 with this. I'm also sure that my ground caitian who is a very strong ground character will be crushed into a fine powder.
I'll always still play but this completely guts the game as I see it. Yeah, it's great for new players who will come in and spend a lot for a few months, but for me it is a kick in the teeth.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Poll is irrelevant because the change is coming. When something big like this gets announced, it's already practically a done deal. Hell, it's already hit Tribble.
Your comment is irrelevant.
More relevant than this poll. Because what I say is coming true, this poll, regardless of the results, doesn't matter for TRIBBLE
I'll save my final judgement forthe finished product but for now I renain cautiously optimistic and hope for a free respec token for all my toons. Handy timing as I was thinking of respeccing a few of them soon.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
ha. right now i largely max out all weapon/torpedo abilities, healing and defense abilities, particles/grav, and have decent points into power, flow, and a few other things that aren't useless. All of that will be reduced to a couple of "choices" that really will boil down to all tacs will pick setup A and the small amount of science people will pick trees setup B which will be posted on reddit or tribble forum shortly. Hundreds of choices will be reduced to 2 for almost every single player.
I'm done with trying to create anything interesting in this game. I recently achieved 40,000 with my Paradox. That may not sound like much to most but to me it is very nice and something very different and personally designed for my science captain with polaron/photon. I guarantee that will be gutted back to 20,000 with this. I'm also sure that my ground caitian who is a very strong ground character will be crushed into a fine powder.
I'll always still play but this completely guts the game as I see it. Yeah, it's great for new players who will come in and spend a lot for a few months, but for me it is a kick in the teeth.
As someone with 5 science captains, with various levels of "suboptimal builds I like," I couldn't disagree more with you. Without actually playing with the new system, you can't say that your output would be cut in half. Maybe it will be worse. Maybe it will be better. But I'd be willing to bet 1m EC it won't (by itself) halve your damage. A lot of hyperbole there. You might want to try it, first, maybe?
I can't believe I'm the voice of optimism for any kind of overhaul, but it does look like a boost for science.
Kinda wish this poll could filter results by folks that have actually tried out the new system on Tribble, and those that're jumping to conclusions which may or may not be accurate.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Kinda wish this poll could filter results by folks that have actually tried out the new system on Tribble, and those that're jumping to conclusions which may or may not be accurate.
Yeah, I'd like to test out on Tribble, but guess what?! Can't. All my chars are wiped from it! And when I go the page to transfer a new one, only 'Redshirt' is an option (to which I have no access either).
Kinda wish this poll could filter results by folks that have actually tried out the new system on Tribble, and those that're jumping to conclusions which may or may not be accurate.
Tribble doesn't seem to want to let me in. I'd love to get some hands on time with this before rendering judgment.
Yeah, I'd like to test out on Tribble, but guess what?! Can't. All my chars are wiped from it! And when I go the page to transfer a new one, only 'Redshirt' is an option (to which I have no access either).
You should be able to make a new character.
For the first week of testing, we've purposefully made this the only way to try it out, to ensure that we get at least a little bit of feedback on how it feels to level up with the new system in place. If we immediately opened the flood gates to transfers, it's unlikely that anyone would try that out.
This was called out in the patch notes, in case you didn't see it announced.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Kinda wish this poll could filter results by folks that have actually tried out the new system on Tribble, and those that're jumping to conclusions which may or may not be accurate.
Yeah, I'd like to test out on Tribble, but guess what?! Can't. All my chars are wiped from it! And when I go the page to transfer a new one, only 'Redshirt' is an option (to which I have no access either).
Read the patchnotes on Tribble. It's only new chars for one week to test leveling up with the new skill system. You can try all your chars after that week on Tribble.
Yeah, I'd like to test out on Tribble, but guess what?! Can't. All my chars are wiped from it! And when I go the page to transfer a new one, only 'Redshirt' is an option (to which I have no access either).
You should be able to make a new character.
For the first week of testing, we've purposefully made this the only way to try it out, to ensure that we get at least a little bit of feedback on how it feels to level up with the new system in place. If we immediately opened the flood gates to transfers, it's unlikely that anyone would try that out.
This was called out in the patch notes, in case you didn't see it announced.
K, thx; my bad. I had heard you could only transfer 1 character of choice anew; but I guess making a new one should work too.
Yes, because current system is a bit obsolete. Ground and space skills should have been separated from the very start, but at least they will be now. Besides I was already thinking about respecing some of my characters in the near future and now I'll be given a chance to do it for free. Besides that, beams and cannons will get balanced which is nice too.
FED ENG:FA Sirius Verax (USS Leviathan) , FED TAC (Delta): FA Adria Tyllex (USS Thunderblade) , ROM TAC:ADM Kill'ina (IRW Imperix Thrai) , KLING ENG (Delta):LT. GEN Ghol'Vaq Martok (IKS Qeh'Ral II) - 44th Fleet member SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!
Kinda wish this poll could filter results by folks that have actually tried out the new system on Tribble, and those that're jumping to conclusions which may or may not be accurate.
Yeah, I'd like to test out on Tribble, but guess what?! Can't. All my chars are wiped from it! And when I go the page to transfer a new one, only 'Redshirt' is an option (to which I have no access either).
Read the patchnotes on Tribble. It's only new chars for one week to test leveling up with the new skill system. You can try all your chars after that week on Tribble.
Thing just is, how will I be able to test the effects of the boosts of all my gear then?! My new toon will obviously have none. Guess that's for another week then.
ha. right now i largely max out all weapon/torpedo abilities, healing and defense abilities, particles/grav, and have decent points into power, flow, and a few other things that aren't useless. All of that will be reduced to a couple of "choices" that really will boil down to all tacs will pick setup A and the small amount of science people will pick trees setup B which will be posted on reddit or tribble forum shortly. Hundreds of choices will be reduced to 2 for almost every single player.
I'm done with trying to create anything interesting in this game. I recently achieved 40,000 with my Paradox. That may not sound like much to most but to me it is very nice and something very different and personally designed for my science captain with polaron/photon. I guarantee that will be gutted back to 20,000 with this. I'm also sure that my ground caitian who is a very strong ground character will be crushed into a fine powder.
I'll always still play but this completely guts the game as I see it. Yeah, it's great for new players who will come in and spend a lot for a few months, but for me it is a kick in the teeth.
Sheldon, I don't always agree with you, and there are times when I really disagree, but this time you are right on the money. You have articulated very well what I was thinking but couldn't quite put into words.
That's fine - I can't SEE Tribble to download it and make a new character. Transferring a character is listed as the main way of triggering the option. I've also gone to the website and volunteered. The page just sputters and the option disappears.
Kinda wish this poll could filter results by folks that have actually tried out the new system on Tribble, and those that're jumping to conclusions which may or may not be accurate.
I wish the Cryptic Dev team would spend more time on actual Bug-fixing and playable mission content addition instead of spreading LARGE amounts of Dev hours continually revamping systems that work okay; and which no one is really complaining all that much about. I have rarely (the Boff skill revamp being the sole exception) seen a system revamp done by Cryptic that didn't end up either nerfing some aspect of a player's character, or monetizing something (oftentimes to an over the top degree.)
So, yeah sorry if we're not all going: "Wow - How exciting!" over this Skill Revamp. Something I would have loved to see done is an Exploration mission content revamp (I'm sure you remember how Exploration content was completely removed with no replacement of any kind? Players have ben asking for some sort o Exploration system since that happened, bit instead we get Doffing System revamps, Crafting System revamps (what was it four total revamps before we got to the current crafting system? - to better monetize it; and this Skill system revamp.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Kinda wish this poll could filter results by folks that have actually tried out the new system on Tribble, and those that're jumping to conclusions which may or may not be accurate.
Yeah, I'd like to test out on Tribble, but guess what?! Can't. All my chars are wiped from it! And when I go the page to transfer a new one, only 'Redshirt' is an option (to which I have no access either).
You should be able to make a new character.
For the first week of testing, we've purposefully made this the only way to try it out, to ensure that we get at least a little bit of feedback on how it feels to level up with the new system in place. If we immediately opened the flood gates to transfers, it's unlikely that anyone would try that out.
This was called out in the patch notes, in case you didn't see it announced.
And once you make a new character, progress through the tutorial, and head to Drozana station where you will be able to talk to the console in there and claim enough skill points to hit 60.
All of that will be reduced to a couple of "choices" that really will boil down to all tacs will pick setup A and the small amount of science people will pick trees setup B which will be posted on reddit or tribble forum shortly. Hundreds of choices will be reduced to 2 for almost every single player.
How does the "everyone just copies The One True Build" apply to the new system, but not to the old?
Seriously, I've seen the "doesn't matter, everyone just copies the One Correct Theorycrafted Build for their class" argument on the forums of every MMO/ARPG I've ever played. Usually thrown around by either the uber-hardcore "how dare these scrubs with terrible builds pollute my dungeon group" players, or the folks arguing in favor of the skill tree simplification - because after all, it doesn't matter if they simplify the system, everyone (everyone who matters, those idiots who have bad builds don't count) just copies the Correct Build from Elitist Jerks/MaxDPS/reddit/whatever.
edit: and yes, I was annoyed when they simplified the early WoW skill trees, because I was one of the people who didn't copy the OTB, and who was happy to experiment with non-standard/atypical/"bad" builds. Of course, I didn't raid or do any other high-end group content, so I could play bad builds without getting underfoot.
Current system is just fine for PC's, and players who do their homework.
Maybe they're trying to get past the whole paradigm of players "needing to do their homework" to play a game. /shrug
And once you make a new character, progress through the tutorial, and head to Drozana station where you will be able to talk to the console in there and claim enough skill points to hit 60.
Spent the last 2 hours doing the Tutorial. Or so I thought, as, heading to Drozana, system says I'm not cleared to leave the Beta quadrant. It's nearly 2 Am here already, and all I'm doing is jump thru silly Tutorial hoops.
Comments
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
That's too complicated! My strategy is the space bar and D key.
Deciding between +94 and +99 on a value that will be added to 280 and then run through a diminishing returns equation so the actual difference is less than one-quarter-of-one-percent is the illusion of choice.
Deciding do I want better performance for my hanger pets or for incoming crits to feedback and burn my attacker's face off once every 30 seconds is a choice.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I'm done with trying to create anything interesting in this game. I recently achieved 40,000 with my Paradox. That may not sound like much to most but to me it is very nice and something very different and personally designed for my science captain with polaron/photon. I guarantee that will be gutted back to 20,000 with this. I'm also sure that my ground caitian who is a very strong ground character will be crushed into a fine powder.
I'll always still play but this completely guts the game as I see it. Yeah, it's great for new players who will come in and spend a lot for a few months, but for me it is a kick in the teeth.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
More relevant than this poll. Because what I say is coming true, this poll, regardless of the results, doesn't matter for TRIBBLE
Handy timing as I was thinking of respeccing a few of them soon.
"If this will be our end, then I will have them make SUCH an end as to be worthy of rememberance! Out of torpedos you say?! Find me the ferengi!".
As someone with 5 science captains, with various levels of "suboptimal builds I like," I couldn't disagree more with you. Without actually playing with the new system, you can't say that your output would be cut in half. Maybe it will be worse. Maybe it will be better. But I'd be willing to bet 1m EC it won't (by itself) halve your damage. A lot of hyperbole there. You might want to try it, first, maybe?
I can't believe I'm the voice of optimism for any kind of overhaul, but it does look like a boost for science.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Yeah, I'd like to test out on Tribble, but guess what?! Can't. All my chars are wiped from it! And when I go the page to transfer a new one, only 'Redshirt' is an option (to which I have no access either).
Tribble doesn't seem to want to let me in. I'd love to get some hands on time with this before rendering judgment.
You should be able to make a new character.
For the first week of testing, we've purposefully made this the only way to try it out, to ensure that we get at least a little bit of feedback on how it feels to level up with the new system in place. If we immediately opened the flood gates to transfers, it's unlikely that anyone would try that out.
This was called out in the patch notes, in case you didn't see it announced.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Read the patchnotes on Tribble. It's only new chars for one week to test leveling up with the new skill system. You can try all your chars after that week on Tribble.
K, thx; my bad. I had heard you could only transfer 1 character of choice anew; but I guess making a new one should work too.
SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!
Thing just is, how will I be able to test the effects of the boosts of all my gear then?! My new toon will obviously have none. Guess that's for another week then.
Sheldon, I don't always agree with you, and there are times when I really disagree, but this time you are right on the money. You have articulated very well what I was thinking but couldn't quite put into words.
That's fine - I can't SEE Tribble to download it and make a new character. Transferring a character is listed as the main way of triggering the option. I've also gone to the website and volunteered. The page just sputters and the option disappears.
I wish the Cryptic Dev team would spend more time on actual Bug-fixing and playable mission content addition instead of spreading LARGE amounts of Dev hours continually revamping systems that work okay; and which no one is really complaining all that much about. I have rarely (the Boff skill revamp being the sole exception) seen a system revamp done by Cryptic that didn't end up either nerfing some aspect of a player's character, or monetizing something (oftentimes to an over the top degree.)
So, yeah sorry if we're not all going: "Wow - How exciting!" over this Skill Revamp. Something I would have loved to see done is an Exploration mission content revamp (I'm sure you remember how Exploration content was completely removed with no replacement of any kind? Players have ben asking for some sort o Exploration system since that happened, bit instead we get Doffing System revamps, Crafting System revamps (what was it four total revamps before we got to the current crafting system? - to better monetize it; and this Skill system revamp.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
@karmaplasticity went through the whole system in a video on reddit, worth looking at, for those without access.
I just set up my build on tribble, and I will most definitely be able to continue the "tactical FAW DPSSS" build I have on holodeck.
Once Borticus told us that just one single node in the new tree = greater benefit than 9 points in the current tree, I was sold.
And once you make a new character, progress through the tutorial, and head to Drozana station where you will be able to talk to the console in there and claim enough skill points to hit 60.
How does the "everyone just copies The One True Build" apply to the new system, but not to the old?
Seriously, I've seen the "doesn't matter, everyone just copies the One Correct Theorycrafted Build for their class" argument on the forums of every MMO/ARPG I've ever played. Usually thrown around by either the uber-hardcore "how dare these scrubs with terrible builds pollute my dungeon group" players, or the folks arguing in favor of the skill tree simplification - because after all, it doesn't matter if they simplify the system, everyone (everyone who matters, those idiots who have bad builds don't count) just copies the Correct Build from Elitist Jerks/MaxDPS/reddit/whatever.
edit: and yes, I was annoyed when they simplified the early WoW skill trees, because I was one of the people who didn't copy the OTB, and who was happy to experiment with non-standard/atypical/"bad" builds. Of course, I didn't raid or do any other high-end group content, so I could play bad builds without getting underfoot.
Maybe they're trying to get past the whole paradigm of players "needing to do their homework" to play a game. /shrug
Spent the last 2 hours doing the Tutorial. Or so I thought, as, heading to Drozana, system says I'm not cleared to leave the Beta quadrant. It's nearly 2 Am here already, and all I'm doing is jump thru silly Tutorial hoops.