Why? There is NOTHING broken with it and complex? NOT really. They should dedicate the time to fix other stuff like create NEW content, another full or semi faction or even give some love to PvP? This would be like the 3rd time they touch the same stuff and IMO useless waste of time from what I see so far. I know some peeps might say well these are developers and NOT bug hunters...still they should devote the resources to something else. If ain't broken why fix it?
From what I've seen, this is the 2nd Revamp the skills tree has had (the first being F2P prep). You don't think it's needed because you're an experienced player and know how to do the live server version of the skill tree. However, someone new coming into the game will see all these bars the first time they do their skills and not know what to pick. the Devs want to stream line it so that it is more user friendly and more in line with the specialization trees.
I assume you're talking about the fact that characters seem to have disappeared. They want us to test out the system with new characters to make sure things are working for leveling.
...However, someone new coming into the game will see all these bars the first time they do their skills and not know what to pick....
They're most likely not going to know what to pick in the new skill tree either.
The devs stated that one of their goals with this revamp is to make the functions of skills/talents/whatever clearer. To say new players won't know what to pick in the new talent trees is an unfounded assumption.
This looks like (at least an attempt at) a balancing pass, which was sorely needed. Too many eggs in the "Tactical Captain using BFAW" basket.
Not the BFAW talk again. Into the trash bin it goes.
Either way, I like it that they are taking the initiative to create a cleaner and hopefully more beneficial skill system.
When a vast majority only utilize BFAW builds on Tactical Captains, it's clear insanity to leave that system as-is. Whether or not "BFAW is teh overpowered!!!!!11111oneoneone" is irrelevant.
Everyone who uses cookie cutter builds exclusively basically has themselves to blame. Otherwise, why bother having cannons, torpedoes, Engineers, and Science as options? If there's a massive chunk using one mechanic, something needs to change. It's just common sense.
Imo its the high time for that. Skill system is one of oldest and outdated mechanics in a game and needs to be replaced with something better - what was good 6 years ago does not have to be good now and every core mechanics in every MMO must evolve is game is supposedto be afloat - just look at oldest MMO's that ARE still alive - all of them had major revamps of many core mechanics - where some of them have encountered even multiple revamps of same mechanics over time.
but then the only "hope" I have is that the dilithium will be next target for revamp
Just do re-iterate, I'm not asking if people want "this" skill revamp. I'm asking if people want "a" skill revamp.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
This looks like (at least an attempt at) a balancing pass, which was sorely needed. Too many eggs in the "Tactical Captain using BFAW" basket.
Not the BFAW talk again. Into the trash bin it goes.
Either way, I like it that they are taking the initiative to create a cleaner and hopefully more beneficial skill system.
When a vast majority only utilize BFAW builds on Tactical Captains, it's clear insanity to leave that system as-is. Whether or not "BFAW is teh overpowered!!!!!11111oneoneone" is irrelevant.
Everyone who uses cookie cutter builds exclusively basically has themselves to blame. Otherwise, why bother having cannons, torpedoes, Engineers, and Science as options? If there's a massive chunk using one mechanic, something needs to change. It's just common sense.
Yes but this topic and coming revamp was never about the abilities and weapons. It is about skills. People steer off topic way too easily and should discuss the actual skill revamp and not about things that are unrelated. If they want a weapon or ability revamp they can talk about that in another thread.
Not only have there people wanting a skill revamp for a long time now, the Devs have repeatedly said that it was coming for over a year now. How is anyone surprised?
The devs have said "it's coming" for years about some things that never happened. Skepticism is strong in this forum community.
Yes but this topic and coming revamp was never about the abilities and weapons. It is about skills. People steer off topic way too easily and should discuss the actual skill revamp and not about things that are unrelated. If they want a weapon or ability revamp they can talk about that in another thread.
But a large part of the revamp is normalizing weapon types (falloff %) and, seemingly, captain classes. Thus the reference to "Tactical Captain using BFAW." You realize that this revamp completely, directly sets weapon type damage on its ear, yes?
Yes but this topic and coming revamp was never about the abilities and weapons. It is about skills. People steer off topic way too easily and should discuss the actual skill revamp and not about things that are unrelated. If they want a weapon or ability revamp they can talk about that in another thread.
But a large part of the revamp is normalizing weapon types (falloff %) and, seemingly, captain classes. Thus the reference to "Tactical Captain using BFAW." You realize that this revamp completely, directly sets weapon type damage on its ear, yes?
I am fully aware that skills affect abilities and weapons in general but they do not affect their design. All the skills do really is improve the efficiency of abilities and weapons. If it is an ability and weapon redesign we want... well. Let's not group three different revamps into one and bash down a potential revamp because we currently hate the design of unrelated other things like cannon arc, drop off and what not.
I agree with Nephitis lets try to stay on topic too much hijacking going on lately.
I don't think it is really a matter of do you want a skill revamp this is a need for this game. Skills in this game have always been something left to be desired in my eyes. The current system is you can get a partial skill with the new system you either get it or you don't there is no in between anymore. The new system lessens the amount of unecessary currency such as skill points. I want to be able to put my skills how I want them if I want to dump them all in space then let me do that but with the current we can't do that we have to split it.
What Cryptic is doing is making things more efficient for the game as it attracts newer players. As with IT it evolves STO is no different we have to adapt with the changes in the end they know what they are doing for their game. Any change in the current setup we have for anything in this game is nice and I wouldn't be surprised if we see many more systems change for 11.5 into 12.
So yes I'm all for this skill change I like change we can always use a breath of fresh air.
I am fully aware that skills affect abilities and weapons in general but they do not affect their design. All the skills do really is improve the efficiency of abilities and weapons. If it is an ability and weapon redesign we want... well. Let's not group three different revamps into one and bash down a potential revamp because we currently hate the design of unrelated other things like cannon arc, drop off and what not.
You don't seem to understand. The revamp addresses damage dropoff for cannons, and normalizes them with beams. It also groups all weapon damage into one category so you dont need to decide between energy weapons and torpedoes.
It is not "unrelated other things like cannon arc, drop off and what not." It is COMPLETELY related. Did you look at the notes for the system at all?
I am fully aware that skills affect abilities and weapons in general but they do not affect their design. All the skills do really is improve the efficiency of abilities and weapons. If it is an ability and weapon redesign we want... well. Let's not group three different revamps into one and bash down a potential revamp because we currently hate the design of unrelated other things like cannon arc, drop off and what not.
You don't seem to understand. The revamp addresses damage dropoff for cannons, and normalizes them with beams. It also groups all weapon damage into one category so you dont need to decide between energy weapons and torpedoes.
It is not "unrelated other things like cannon arc, drop off and what not." It is COMPLETELY related. Did you look at the notes for the system at all?
Long-Range Targeting Sensors
Each rank purchased in this 3-point Skill will reduce the damage penalty experienced by being far away from the target of your energy weapons.
Okay I see what you are getting at. But you also have to understand that it affects arrays as well so while the gap may be reduced there will probably still be a gap, and people will still cry about BFAW. Either way, I think the revamp is needed but I also think revamping some of the existing weapon types may also be needed. Are we on the same page now?
Each rank purchased in this 3-point Skill will reduce the damage penalty experienced by being far away from the target of your energy weapons.
Okay I see what you are getting at. But you also have to understand that it affects arrays as well so while the gap may be reduced there will probably still be a gap, and people will still cry about BFAW. Either way, I think the revamp is needed but I also think revamping some of the existing weapon types may also be needed. Are we on the same page now?
Also, there is the part where they changed the dropoff from 60% to 50%. They also changed beams from 40% to 50%. This was, by far, the most complained about part of the beams vs cannons debate. Now it's not "BFAW or GTFO," or "Everyone uses BFAW," which has been the case the vast majority of the time. Whether or not they're "even" isn't what I was saying, which absolutely is another topic altogether. It's more "incentive to use something different."
I am fully aware that skills affect abilities and weapons in general but they do not affect their design. All the skills do really is improve the efficiency of abilities and weapons. If it is an ability and weapon redesign we want... well. Let's not group three different revamps into one and bash down a potential revamp because we currently hate the design of unrelated other things like cannon arc, drop off and what not.
You don't seem to understand. The revamp addresses damage dropoff for cannons, and normalizes them with beams. It also groups all weapon damage into one category so you dont need to decide between energy weapons and torpedoes.
It is not "unrelated other things like cannon arc, drop off and what not." It is COMPLETELY related. Did you look at the notes for the system at all?
I know I'm barking up the wrong tree with this, but there SHOULD be a big difference in falloff between beams and cannons. They're 2 different operating principals and different energy requirements. It's the same for torpedos, a plasma should take a loooonnnnggggg time and require a massive amount of energy to launch one where a photon shouldn't. They've neutered the different types so much they might as well have just 2 weapons in game with different mark levels, guns and torpedos.
Poll is irrelevant because the change is coming. When something big like this gets announced, it's already practically a done deal. Hell, it's already hit Tribble.
Poll is irrelevant because the change is coming. When something big like this gets announced, it's already practically a done deal. Hell, it's already hit Tribble.
Your comment is irrelevant.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
I know I'm barking up the wrong tree with this, but there SHOULD be a big difference in falloff between beams and cannons. They're 2 different operating principals and different energy requirements. It's the same for torpedos, a plasma should take a loooonnnnggggg time and require a massive amount of energy to launch one where a photon shouldn't. They've neutered the different types so much they might as well have just 2 weapons in game with different mark levels, guns and torpedos.
Why should there be arc AND damage distance penalties for all cannon types, when compared to beams?
I know I'm barking up the wrong tree with this, but there SHOULD be a big difference in falloff between beams and cannons. They're 2 different operating principals and different energy requirements. It's the same for torpedos, a plasma should take a loooonnnnggggg time and require a massive amount of energy to launch one where a photon shouldn't. They've neutered the different types so much they might as well have just 2 weapons in game with different mark levels, guns and torpedos.
Why should there be arc AND damage distance penalties for all cannon types, when compared to beams?
Agreed Sinn, and why should plasma take a long time LordMalak? You do understand that the torpedos in Star Trek are self-contained weapons systems. It's not an energy cannon that charges up and then fires a star shaped plasma bolt. lol... Besides, how do you even make photon into a destructive force to be reckoned with? If anything, it would be vice versa. Plasma is relatively easy to achieve and it even exists naturally on our planet. A plasma torpedo could be a self contained weapons system with super heated gas inside (that becomes plasma as a result).
if it ends the dps race then maybe.
but we just dont know enough for me to either happy or mad at it.
I don't know that it will end the DPS race- but it sure will allow more varied builds to the table.
Another interesting thing Borticus mentioned was making the numbers more easy to understand. It's a bit of a pain to try and figure out if 20% is actually 20%, or just 13.74%. I hope this goes a long way in making things more clear for everyone. As-is, you get a small amount of people spending hours upon hours testing things...just to see if what we're told is what we actually get.
I know I'm barking up the wrong tree with this, but there SHOULD be a big difference in falloff between beams and cannons. They're 2 different operating principals and different energy requirements. It's the same for torpedos, a plasma should take a loooonnnnggggg time and require a massive amount of energy to launch one where a photon shouldn't. They've neutered the different types so much they might as well have just 2 weapons in game with different mark levels, guns and torpedos.
Why should there be arc AND damage distance penalties for all cannon types, when compared to beams?
Agreed Sinn, and why should plasma take a long time LordMalak? You do understand that the torpedos in Star Trek are self-contained weapons systems. It's not an energy cannon that charges up and then fires a star shaped plasma bolt. lol... Besides, how do you even make photon into a destructive force to be reckoned with? If anything, it would be vice versa. Plasma is relatively easy to achieve and it even exists naturally on our planet. A plasma torpedo could be a self contained weapons system with super heated gas inside (that becomes plasma as a result).
The problem, whether or not I agree with any of that (I do, Nephitis), is that this is a game. A game with a multitude of various options. Right now, most of those options are either rarely utilized, or flat-out ignored as "garbage." That makes for bad game design. I'm cautiously optimistic that this opens up the game for much more variety (more choices always = good!) and, gasp, fun.
Comments
Either way, I like it that they are taking the initiative to create a cleaner and hopefully more beneficial skill system.
From what I've seen, this is the 2nd Revamp the skills tree has had (the first being F2P prep). You don't think it's needed because you're an experienced player and know how to do the live server version of the skill tree. However, someone new coming into the game will see all these bars the first time they do their skills and not know what to pick. the Devs want to stream line it so that it is more user friendly and more in line with the specialization trees.
I assume you're talking about the fact that characters seem to have disappeared. They want us to test out the system with new characters to make sure things are working for leveling.
Thats wha STOwiki, powercalc, STOacademy, http://www.amicushome.com/SkillPointEffects.htm and a few other link/tools were for. Now they're all on their last breath of life.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
When a vast majority only utilize BFAW builds on Tactical Captains, it's clear insanity to leave that system as-is. Whether or not "BFAW is teh overpowered!!!!!11111oneoneone" is irrelevant.
Everyone who uses cookie cutter builds exclusively basically has themselves to blame. Otherwise, why bother having cannons, torpedoes, Engineers, and Science as options? If there's a massive chunk using one mechanic, something needs to change. It's just common sense.
but then the only "hope" I have is that the dilithium will be next target for revamp
The devs have said "it's coming" for years about some things that never happened. Skepticism is strong in this forum community.
But a large part of the revamp is normalizing weapon types (falloff %) and, seemingly, captain classes. Thus the reference to "Tactical Captain using BFAW." You realize that this revamp completely, directly sets weapon type damage on its ear, yes?
I don't think it is really a matter of do you want a skill revamp this is a need for this game. Skills in this game have always been something left to be desired in my eyes. The current system is you can get a partial skill with the new system you either get it or you don't there is no in between anymore. The new system lessens the amount of unecessary currency such as skill points. I want to be able to put my skills how I want them if I want to dump them all in space then let me do that but with the current we can't do that we have to split it.
What Cryptic is doing is making things more efficient for the game as it attracts newer players. As with IT it evolves STO is no different we have to adapt with the changes in the end they know what they are doing for their game. Any change in the current setup we have for anything in this game is nice and I wouldn't be surprised if we see many more systems change for 11.5 into 12.
So yes I'm all for this skill change I like change we can always use a breath of fresh air.
It is not "unrelated other things like cannon arc, drop off and what not." It is COMPLETELY related. Did you look at the notes for the system at all?
Long-Range Targeting Sensors
Each rank purchased in this 3-point Skill will reduce the damage penalty experienced by being far away from the target of your energy weapons.
Okay I see what you are getting at. But you also have to understand that it affects arrays as well so while the gap may be reduced there will probably still be a gap, and people will still cry about BFAW. Either way, I think the revamp is needed but I also think revamping some of the existing weapon types may also be needed. Are we on the same page now?
Also, there is the part where they changed the dropoff from 60% to 50%. They also changed beams from 40% to 50%. This was, by far, the most complained about part of the beams vs cannons debate. Now it's not "BFAW or GTFO," or "Everyone uses BFAW," which has been the case the vast majority of the time. Whether or not they're "even" isn't what I was saying, which absolutely is another topic altogether. It's more "incentive to use something different."
I know I'm barking up the wrong tree with this, but there SHOULD be a big difference in falloff between beams and cannons. They're 2 different operating principals and different energy requirements. It's the same for torpedos, a plasma should take a loooonnnnggggg time and require a massive amount of energy to launch one where a photon shouldn't. They've neutered the different types so much they might as well have just 2 weapons in game with different mark levels, guns and torpedos.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Yes, because BFAW = Strategy.
Your comment is irrelevant.
Why should there be arc AND damage distance penalties for all cannon types, when compared to beams?
but we just dont know enough for me to either happy or mad at it.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
I don't know that it will end the DPS race- but it sure will allow more varied builds to the table.
Another interesting thing Borticus mentioned was making the numbers more easy to understand. It's a bit of a pain to try and figure out if 20% is actually 20%, or just 13.74%. I hope this goes a long way in making things more clear for everyone. As-is, you get a small amount of people spending hours upon hours testing things...just to see if what we're told is what we actually get.
The problem, whether or not I agree with any of that (I do, Nephitis), is that this is a game. A game with a multitude of various options. Right now, most of those options are either rarely utilized, or flat-out ignored as "garbage." That makes for bad game design. I'm cautiously optimistic that this opens up the game for much more variety (more choices always = good!) and, gasp, fun.