I'm asking whether we would be able to view our character and our inventories in a separate window while we're picking skills, so we know that we're taking best advantage of the items we've got. Or will we have to pick our skills without knowing how our items, traits, etc have been changed?
Since I don't thoroughly understand the basis of your concern, I think this may be another one that's best to let the system speak for itself. The UI flow you'll see on Tribble will be what you can expect to see when the system lands on Holodeck.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
My fear is that none of the new skills (and how they relate to each other) will be immediately clear to people; and yet, on the first day, you'll be forced to respec (lest you have no skills at all). So, I'd wager people will need a realistic minimum of at least 10 free respec tokens until they get a comparable layout to what they had before.
It's early to tell. But the blog specifically said that the tooltips will be as detailed as possible to de-mystify the whole thing. The current skill descriptions almost look like footnotes
"Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
I haven't read all the comments so this may have been covered. Basically, why are you fiddling with this, of all things? We know how the skillstree works, and when new players start, we assist them already. There were so many other opportunities for improvement, like re-introducing Exploration Clusters, introducing Shipboard missions, even just giving us Specialization respec tokens. Even maybe some enviro improvements like finally giving us Fed Tutorial corridors in our ships, or getting some of the floating plants at New Romulus into the virtual dirt.
The skillstree has both a simple and a more complex approach, and some of us enjoyed both. Yes, it was possible to make mistakes but that's part of the game. So now, you're going to change (I won't say fix or improve) the skillstree, at the six-year mark, why? What can you possibly hope to achieve?
It won't make it less difficult to master because mastery is all about how different systems (ship fitout, boffs, doffs, skills, specs, traits, reps, accolades, R&D, etc) all interact with each other. This just changes the skillstree component from "tricky how it might interact" to "Great Big Unknown". This won't fix power creep, it won't fix balance issues. I can't see this fixing anything, it will merely annoy everyone who has to go back to "how the heck does it work, now?" And yes, some of my ships will become unviable builds, for no real overall improvement. This is change for the sake of change.
Oh and incidentally, how about those of us who had several respec tokens as Vets, plus bought respec tokens pre- and post-vet status? I'm assuming we'll have to buy more on top of the single fixer-upper we'll "get", to fix up this fiddlefest.
The new Space Points and Ground Points are linked directly to Level.
For every level from 5 to 50, you get one Space Point (total of 46 points)
For every 5 levels from 5 to 50, you get one Ground Point (total of 10 points)
These values don't change, and you can't "grind out" more.
What about Levels 2 to 4? If there is no progression in there, why not just rename Level 5 to Level 2?
FYI: Bort has answered more important questions on Tribble. Pasting below since some are pretty good.
When we acquire a skill (passive or active), do we get the full 99 points we would have had from maxing the equivalent skill under the old system?
You'll actually be getting the equivalent of 100 points instead of 99. But it will usually be split into multiple nodes.
For 3-node Skills: 50, 35, 15
For 2-node Skills: 60, 40
I regret that there is not another formulation in this.
For 4-node Skills: 40, 30, 20, 10
FYI: Bort has answered more important questions on Tribble. Pasting below since some are pretty good.
I'm assuming that batteries, driver coil, and threat control are all engineering unlocks. The problem is that the user might want some of these, but not all of them. And if the unlocks are granted automatically based on the number of points spent in the engineering branch, then the user loses control over which unlocks are acquired.
Some are automatically granted, but most are Choices that let you customize your character. Threat Control, for example, is offered as a choice, with the opposite choice being ... yknow, I forget offhand. I think Stealth boosts?
Request for @borticuscryptic ... would it be possible for you to encode Threat Control such that its +/- effects are augmented by Auxiliary Power? I have always lamented the fact that the legacy Tier 4 Stealth Skill (and Science Consoles) offered such a meager boost relative to what was the actual granular scale of the effect(s) used game mechanically. +84 for 6 pumps on an effect that scales around 5000 as its baseline (so less than a 2% bump) always contributed to the well deserved reputation the Stealth Skill had for being a complete and utter waste of points that never made a useful (let alone usable) difference in performance. The fact that Sensors got buffed by Auxiliary Power while Stealth DIDN'T always felt like a critical failure of designing Measure vs Counter-measure at the game mechanical level.
Note that if you design Threat Control to be sensitive to Auxiliary Power, the effectiveness of Threat Control then becomes a variable rather than a constant, and is thus something that can be sensitive to circumstances encountered in combat situations, including both Emergency Power to Auxiliary as well as Target Subsystem: Auxiliary, as the most obvious Buff/Debuff examples. It would also do ... interesting things ... to some of the Auxiliary Power to Batteries builds, simply by virtue of minimizing the buff to Threat Control from Auxiliary Power, leading to a possible divergence in build strategies.
A quick note for folks wanting to experiment with the new System:
When it arrives on Tribble, we'll have a test vendor available that sells free Respec Tokens, as well as bundles of 10,000 Experience Points. So please try it out when it gets patched to Tribble, and send us your feedback!
I love the look of the new stuff so far, however...
Might I inquire as to whether there is going to be any multi-spec system put into place? I would really love to be able to swap between a 'tank' build and a 'DPS' build at will, rather then having to acquire a respec token - the current inability to do so is a source of great frustration, especially considering that i'm a lifetime member. Even having a way to purchase another skill-tree loadout slot would be welcome.
Ok geniuses really BAD idea! You are going the route that WOW took by dumbing the game down. You are going to reduce the customization to ZERO so everyone is the same bland cookie cutter as everyone else. BAD BAD BAD Idea! Customization of your charecters skills was one of the great things this game had going for it. Now you are pretty much forcing people into a box. If I wanted to be forced to have a cookie cutter toon I'd still be playing WOW. Ever look at the numbers of subscribers of WOW before the skill set changes to after? They took a nose dive. You no longer had a charecter that was really unique to your play style but a generic one that was limited in many ways. I had a Hunter who was a very good long range attack that was reduced to one that didn't excell at anything due to the limits imposed by the fewer skill points and options and mandatory must have this or that. Did you hire folks from Blizzrd to do the brillant revamp? Big mistake maybe instead of a revamp being clearer on what each skill does would have been better. I bet your player base takes a nose dive after this misguided revamp gets rammed down our throats.
SOE (and Smedley) did the exact same thing with Star Wars Galaxies with the NGE ... players went from a unique personal customized character into a forced cookie cutter "you take either this or that" build(s) ... but I guess the devs know what we like to play and how we need to spec our play styles / characters better than we do right ?
I'm assuming that batteries, driver coil, and threat control are all engineering unlocks. The problem is that the user might want some of these, but not all of them. And if the unlocks are granted automatically based on the number of points spent in the engineering branch, then the user loses control over which unlocks are acquired.[/b]
The problem, way I see it, is not 'that the user might want some of these, but not all of them' (I mean, why wouldn't you want all of them, if they're free unlocks!?), but that, in order to get to one specific unlock, you need to fill up a branch of a tree you may not be otherwise interested in. (Ergo, you de facto lose skill points on the deal).
Well, I don't like change in general. Even less when I don't think it's needed.
But what worries me most is that virtually every item of gear in STO will have its effects adjusted as all skills are adjusted. That will mean rethinking all builds, reevaluating all chosen sets.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Well, I don't like change in general. Even less when I don't think it's needed.
But what worries me most is that virtually every item of gear in STO will have its effects adjusted as all skills are adjusted. That will mean rethinking all builds, reevaluating all chosen sets.
Will i be forced to invest points in a segment of the game I do not care about? Can I fully spec for space? Thats the one thing I hate about the current system, I'm forced to spend 66,000 points in a segment of the game I only play during story missions.
Will i be forced to invest points in a segment of the game I do not care about? Can I fully spec for space? Thats the one thing I hate about the current system, I'm forced to spend 66,000 points in a segment of the game I only play during story missions.
As you level up you get points, You will gain 46 Space Points and 10 Ground points. You have the option to spend them or not. But you don't have to spend the ground points to spend your Space points, based on what I have seen and read so far.
Will i be forced to invest points in a segment of the game I do not care about? Can I fully spec for space? Thats the one thing I hate about the current system, I'm forced to spend 66,000 points in a segment of the game I only play during story missions.
As you level up you get points, You will gain 46 Space Points and 10 Ground points. You have the option to spend them or not. But you don't have to spend the ground points to spend your Space points, based on what I have seen and read so far.
Which means I can not fully spec for space. Well... atleast the status quo is staying the same in that regard... but Id much prefer a 56-0 Space ground Split than a 46-10...
Might I inquire as to whether there is going to be any multi-spec system put into place? I would really love to be able to swap between a 'tank' build and a 'DPS' build at will, rather then having to acquire a respec token - the current inability to do so is a source of great frustration, especially considering that i'm a lifetime member. Even having a way to purchase another skill-tree loadout slot would be welcome.
switch characters problem solved
Because grinding out gear on multiple characters is oh so fun.
What's going to happen with all the DOff's that grant skill buffs?
(and if this has been answered, my apologies, I don't want to get snipped at)
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Comments
Since I don't thoroughly understand the basis of your concern, I think this may be another one that's best to let the system speak for itself. The UI flow you'll see on Tribble will be what you can expect to see when the system lands on Holodeck.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
It's early to tell. But the blog specifically said that the tooltips will be as detailed as possible to de-mystify the whole thing. The current skill descriptions almost look like footnotes
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
The skillstree has both a simple and a more complex approach, and some of us enjoyed both. Yes, it was possible to make mistakes but that's part of the game. So now, you're going to change (I won't say fix or improve) the skillstree, at the six-year mark, why? What can you possibly hope to achieve?
It won't make it less difficult to master because mastery is all about how different systems (ship fitout, boffs, doffs, skills, specs, traits, reps, accolades, R&D, etc) all interact with each other. This just changes the skillstree component from "tricky how it might interact" to "Great Big Unknown". This won't fix power creep, it won't fix balance issues. I can't see this fixing anything, it will merely annoy everyone who has to go back to "how the heck does it work, now?" And yes, some of my ships will become unviable builds, for no real overall improvement. This is change for the sake of change.
Oh and incidentally, how about those of us who had several respec tokens as Vets, plus bought respec tokens pre- and post-vet status? I'm assuming we'll have to buy more on top of the single fixer-upper we'll "get", to fix up this fiddlefest.
Not. Happy.
Our current plan is to get it on there on Friday morning (PST). Things can happen between now and then, of course.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
What about Levels 2 to 4? If there is no progression in there, why not just rename Level 5 to Level 2?
For 4-node Skills: 40, 30, 20, 10
Request for @borticuscryptic ... would it be possible for you to encode Threat Control such that its +/- effects are augmented by Auxiliary Power? I have always lamented the fact that the legacy Tier 4 Stealth Skill (and Science Consoles) offered such a meager boost relative to what was the actual granular scale of the effect(s) used game mechanically. +84 for 6 pumps on an effect that scales around 5000 as its baseline (so less than a 2% bump) always contributed to the well deserved reputation the Stealth Skill had for being a complete and utter waste of points that never made a useful (let alone usable) difference in performance. The fact that Sensors got buffed by Auxiliary Power while Stealth DIDN'T always felt like a critical failure of designing Measure vs Counter-measure at the game mechanical level.
Note that if you design Threat Control to be sensitive to Auxiliary Power, the effectiveness of Threat Control then becomes a variable rather than a constant, and is thus something that can be sensitive to circumstances encountered in combat situations, including both Emergency Power to Auxiliary as well as Target Subsystem: Auxiliary, as the most obvious Buff/Debuff examples. It would also do ... interesting things ... to some of the Auxiliary Power to Batteries builds, simply by virtue of minimizing the buff to Threat Control from Auxiliary Power, leading to a possible divergence in build strategies.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
Was announced Today. Part of the Revamp.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/46fqic/star_trek_online_skill_system_revamp/d04rlly
Announced today
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
switch characters problem solved
SOE (and Smedley) did the exact same thing with Star Wars Galaxies with the NGE ... players went from a unique personal customized character into a forced cookie cutter "you take either this or that" build(s) ... but I guess the devs know what we like to play and how we need to spec our play styles / characters better than we do right ?
The problem, way I see it, is not 'that the user might want some of these, but not all of them' (I mean, why wouldn't you want all of them, if they're free unlocks!?), but that, in order to get to one specific unlock, you need to fill up a branch of a tree you may not be otherwise interested in. (Ergo, you de facto lose skill points on the deal).
But what worries me most is that virtually every item of gear in STO will have its effects adjusted as all skills are adjusted. That will mean rethinking all builds, reevaluating all chosen sets.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Like I said, "Don't fix it if it ain't broken."
> Like I said, "Don't fix it if it ain't broken."
I second that.
Will i be forced to invest points in a segment of the game I do not care about? Can I fully spec for space? Thats the one thing I hate about the current system, I'm forced to spend 66,000 points in a segment of the game I only play during story missions.
I'm sure a lot of players will be thinking this way now ...
Name the games? And while there are some that aren't "free" they make it pretty cheap using basic currency rather than specialized currency or items.
Thankfully no.
Thankfully no.
As you level up you get points, You will gain 46 Space Points and 10 Ground points. You have the option to spend them or not. But you don't have to spend the ground points to spend your Space points, based on what I have seen and read so far.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Tribble should be open to everyone right now
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Which means I can not fully spec for space. Well... atleast the status quo is staying the same in that regard... but Id much prefer a 56-0 Space ground Split than a 46-10...
Because grinding out gear on multiple characters is oh so fun.
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
Example:
Deflector has:
+27 flow caps skill
+10 power insulators skill
Would the new deflector have?
+37 drain skill
or as is said several times in that, because the current system isn't a particularly intuitive system to use.
(and if this has been answered, my apologies, I don't want to get snipped at)
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion