I've always been a 'wait and see' kind of person, rather than shouting 'Doooom!' every time a change is announced. I'm also a casual player who doesn't min/max anything and generally has a 'general' build that survives, which is the only important consideration for any build, IMO. I have another opinion about DPS-hounds which is best kept to myself.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Well, I don't like change in general. Even less when I don't think it's needed.
But what worries me most is that virtually every item of gear in STO will have its effects adjusted as all skills are adjusted. That will mean rethinking all builds, reevaluating all chosen sets.
Like I said, "Don't fix it if it ain't broken."
I 100% agree, we are going from a unique skill tree that offers a LOT of flexibility by allowing you to only partially invest in skills so that you may invest more heavily in others, to a stream-lined copy/paste of the old Vanilla WoW skill tree with some minor alterations. Lame.
Well, I don't like change in general. Even less when I don't think it's needed.
But what worries me most is that virtually every item of gear in STO will have its effects adjusted as all skills are adjusted. That will mean rethinking all builds, reevaluating all chosen sets.
Like I said, "Don't fix it if it ain't broken."
I 100% agree, we are going from a unique skill tree that offers a LOT of flexibility by allowing you to only partially invest in skills so that you may invest more heavily in others, to a stream-lined copy/paste of the old Vanilla WoW skill tree with some minor alterations. Lame.
I guess I am odd then because bar a few odd points here and there, and the ground traits which aren't the same across classes, my current characters are all the same with the current system, and they are generally the same to what I see others already pointed in to on the academy too; so I guess I am missing this wonderful flexibility we have now.
I feel soooo sorry for my friend who just spend cash on a respec token only a couple days ago and used it when she could have just waited a bit longer for the free one.
I would like to know how do all these changes effect things like the leech which atm is key for most builds and very very very very expensive to purchase let alone on 6 toons.
you said that things will got altered and adjusted to the new skills etc but how is the question how much are we going to loose and gain as things from reps etc can be swapped out etc with time but when things cost real currency and or a lot of ec it would be nice to know if the recent purchases I've made in both real money and time are in a few weeks going to become completely worthless and total waste.
Well, I don't like change in general. Even less when I don't think it's needed.
But what worries me most is that virtually every item of gear in STO will have its effects adjusted as all skills are adjusted. That will mean rethinking all builds, reevaluating all chosen sets.
Like I said, "Don't fix it if it ain't broken."
I 100% agree, we are going from a unique skill tree that offers a LOT of flexibility by allowing you to only partially invest in skills so that you may invest more heavily in others, to a stream-lined copy/paste of the old Vanilla WoW skill tree with some minor alterations. Lame.
I guess I am odd then because bar a few odd points here and there, and the ground traits which aren't the same across classes, my current characters are all the same with the current system, and they are generally the same to what I see others already pointed in to on the academy too; so I guess I am missing this wonderful flexibility we have now.
Are there optimal builds if your trying to max out your DPS? Sure, but the beauty of the current system is that you can experiment with other builds, try different things, and still be viable. The ground part I couldn't care less about, the whole engine for ground combat in this game is horrendous so I just speed through everything that involves ground combat anyway.
I guess my real problem is that, as much as I loved this particular approach back when WoW used it, seeing it in every game has gotten very old. First SWG switched to it back in the day as part of the NGE, then SWToR launched with it, then LotRO stitched to it, and now STO is switching to it ... some originality would be nice
Ok well here is a valid question.... what about research lab consoles? Suppose I have one with graviton generators and countermeasure systems, I don't suppose I get to have a double bonus eh?
Which mod will be changed and what will it be changed to?
Ok well here is a valid question.... what about research lab consoles? Suppose I have one with graviton generators and countermeasure systems, I don't suppose I get to have a double bonus eh?
Which mod will be changed and what will it be changed to?
that is a damn good question. I also wonder how this is going to work with consoles. with mix stats
S
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
I would like to know how do all these changes effect things like the leech which atm is key for most builds and very very very very expensive to purchase let alone on 6 toons.
you said that things will got altered and adjusted to the new skills etc but how is the question how much are we going to loose and gain as things from reps etc can be swapped out etc with time but when things cost real currency and or a lot of ec it would be nice to know if the recent purchases I've made in both real money and time are in a few weeks going to become completely worthless and total waste.
Questions like these are best saved for when you can actually look at the test server. Mainly because the answer contains so many variables that it would be hard to properly give an answer.
But my guess is that nothing will become worthless, but there might be things that gain or lose some advantages with these changes. But until the system can be in our hands, it's hard to say what the changes are going to do to builds.
Is the new skill tree one for all careers? Or are there going to be varied trees for each career that enables people to play to the career's strengths? Or are you going to tinker the traits so they actually do play to a career's strengths as the current traits make no really difference at the moment due to consoles giving way bigger boosts? Basically, I mean make each career actually worth playing, rather than everyone going TAC!
I know you've already said how we earn the skills, but can you confirm that there is no monetisation going to happen with respect to earning more points or skills with-in this system and that it is basically the same as the current system of earning skill points etc.
Cheers.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Oh NO. The design looks so horrible. Is there time to update/change or give to community for some input or too late? I know there's lots of work behind it but the icons are just awful and boring....
sorry but that UI is totally un-intuitive. Everything is going to be in tooltips? Wut?
Make the system easier for new players but making it more difficult for the millions of current ones.
Another "don't like" vote
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I salute the general idea. Something with a modern touch, easier to use and understand is always desirable. I only hope the devs did not go overboard with the changes that can affect player investments ( toon bound items, doffs) and make them useless due to toon role limitations imposed by the new skill tree. At first glance they made this flexible but until we see it all nothing is sure.
Ok well here is a valid question.... what about research lab consoles? Suppose I have one with graviton generators and countermeasure systems, I don't suppose I get to have a double bonus eh?
Which mod will be changed and what will it be changed to?
You will not get an answer as it has already been stated that answers regarding individual things won't be answered as Bort would be here till next millenium answering each possible variation.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
They definitely have a chance to fix a lot of terrible equipment... if things work as I suspect then I look forward to having 600+ skill points on my science boats. Lol
I also wonder if we will see new consoles immediately or in the future to enhance all the new skills that are being added? They've already stated that some of the new skills will be added to some old equipment during the transition so that answers that question.
Well i do use a specific example but it's a general question as well.
If you had read through the thread, he says consoles will be adjusted. That's it. I'm sure they will take into account the console's properties.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Going from a fairly flexible system (0-9 points in any skill set minus some lock-ins as you move columns) which made it possible to fly all types of ships on all careers, into one that limits ground specializations and bunches up certain abilities, forces one to re-discover something that's been done and paid for multiple times across multiple toons (respec tokens) and tweaked countless times in the past according to specific career and build intentions does by no means sound like a good thing.
On top of that, existing gear which was obtained for the exact purpose of the specs or mods will now be modified.
It is intriguing how even the simplest of bugs can't be fixed, say a working +10% shield capacity trait, or any of the countless bug reports that flood in, yet entirely redundant overhauls like this get pushed forward, inevitably introducing more bugs to compound existing ones.
If there is something positive here, it's the opportunity to do a balance pass that hopefully goes much deeper than the cannons vs beams damage drop off point adjustments, pet de-nerfs, and boosting previously obsolete (nerfed a very long time ago) science powers - all of which I hope gets followed through with a change in game dynamics (more skilled NPCs) - and without making our captain careers suddenly grossly underperform when using the entire range of ship classes.
Finally, I believe it is entirely reasonable to request more than 1 free respec token. Why? When we leveled while subscribed, we got a token while leveling to use and tweak a now-outdated system. Then we bought respec tokens for each character after having figured out that old system to our liking. Now, all of that's out the window, no different than say one's precious ship being deleted because 'change', and when this goes live, everyone will be unable to play, sitting a 0, and an empty Tribble test server with no way to pug to test and re-test over and over is a sure way to bring the game to a halt for the greater non-LTS majority.
Like what? According to the translation the console in my example should receive a 62.5 bonus from the new control skill but I rather doubt they would allow that. It's a conflict and I would like to know how they're going to handle it.
In all likelihood, yes. From the ground up STO is pretty much built to mix and match class attributes (for example, through unrestricted ship choice between ENG/SCI/TAC.) I can't imagine a skill tree revamp (which has to accommodate existing builds and playstyles, like my Sci focused Tac ) would try to change that through significant profession exclusive options.
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No questions or conclusions from my side until I can see it on Tribble, test it and then ask relevant questions if they're not answered simply by waiting and testing it myself.
Hoping it'll be fun, though.
*fingers crossed*
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
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Looks fairly good so far (really guys, stop yelling DOOM! until you've at least tried it on Tribble), but I'm a little worried about how the unlocks are going to be handled.
Just as an example, I'm currently specced into driver coil to minimise the power drain from full impulse. While not vital for my build, I'd like to keep it that way, which I may not be able to, if the Driver Coil unlock is put behind a barrier of needing to have selected a dozen or so Engineering track skills.
I don't have much to say until I can start messing with this in Tribble. However, I will say that an overhaul of the skill system has been WAY overdue and I'm glad the players are getting to see what the devs are working on here.
As far as I'm concerned, the skill revamp will end up fine ... "if" the players get into tribble and beta test the heck out of it and reply to the devs ... and "if" the dev team actually makes changes to the new skill system in the event that players find problems.
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
..Flexibility that you have to pay 5 bucks to flex... Yeah, rite.
I fly mostly cookie-cutter skill specs because I can't afford to "flexibly experiment." Freespecs would've been maybe a better solution, but if new cookies are big enough to accomodate flying with, say, energy and torp ships on the same alt with the same skills, I'm fine with cookie-cutters.
I'm asking whether we would be able to view our character and our inventories in a separate window while we're picking skills, so we know that we're taking best advantage of the items we've got. Or will we have to pick our skills without knowing how our items, traits, etc have been changed?
Since I don't thoroughly understand the basis of your concern, I think this may be another one that's best to let the system speak for itself. The UI flow you'll see on Tribble will be what you can expect to see when the system lands on Holodeck.
While I think I can learn most of what I'll need from the new tooltips, I'm curious if we need to invest in the new tier one tac skills to unlock the tier 2 skills.
My decryption implant thinks so but it's hard to be sure.
Not that it's especially relevant, except in explaining my apprehension, but the skill revamp to simplify and no-brainer builds on KOTOR very much ruined that game for me, since they pretty much eliminated the possibility of hybridizing chars (which is what I look for in nearly any game). While I'm not all _that_ hybridized in any of my STO chars, I'm feeling a little phaser-shy at the prospect at the moment. I'll wait and see, but I'm cringing a bit inside.
Going from a fairly flexible system (0-9 points in any skill set minus some lock-ins as you move columns)
Although you could add 0-9 pumps into any given skill, as a practical matter the number of pumps put into any skill were typically either 0, 3, 6 or 9, with any other values typically being a rarity due to having "leftover" points from expenditures elsewhere in the build. Thus, going to an investment of 0, 1, 2 or 3 skill points in the new system aligns fairly closely with previous options.
Comments
I 100% agree, we are going from a unique skill tree that offers a LOT of flexibility by allowing you to only partially invest in skills so that you may invest more heavily in others, to a stream-lined copy/paste of the old Vanilla WoW skill tree with some minor alterations. Lame.
Bort Already said its not likely to go on Tribble til at least Tomorrow Morning.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
I guess I am odd then because bar a few odd points here and there, and the ground traits which aren't the same across classes, my current characters are all the same with the current system, and they are generally the same to what I see others already pointed in to on the academy too; so I guess I am missing this wonderful flexibility we have now.
I would like to know how do all these changes effect things like the leech which atm is key for most builds and very very very very expensive to purchase let alone on 6 toons.
you said that things will got altered and adjusted to the new skills etc but how is the question how much are we going to loose and gain as things from reps etc can be swapped out etc with time but when things cost real currency and or a lot of ec it would be nice to know if the recent purchases I've made in both real money and time are in a few weeks going to become completely worthless and total waste.
Are there optimal builds if your trying to max out your DPS? Sure, but the beauty of the current system is that you can experiment with other builds, try different things, and still be viable. The ground part I couldn't care less about, the whole engine for ground combat in this game is horrendous so I just speed through everything that involves ground combat anyway.
I guess my real problem is that, as much as I loved this particular approach back when WoW used it, seeing it in every game has gotten very old. First SWG switched to it back in the day as part of the NGE, then SWToR launched with it, then LotRO stitched to it, and now STO is switching to it ... some originality would be nice
Which mod will be changed and what will it be changed to?
that is a damn good question. I also wonder how this is going to work with consoles. with mix stats
S
Questions like these are best saved for when you can actually look at the test server. Mainly because the answer contains so many variables that it would be hard to properly give an answer.
But my guess is that nothing will become worthless, but there might be things that gain or lose some advantages with these changes. But until the system can be in our hands, it's hard to say what the changes are going to do to builds.
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Is the new skill tree one for all careers? Or are there going to be varied trees for each career that enables people to play to the career's strengths? Or are you going to tinker the traits so they actually do play to a career's strengths as the current traits make no really difference at the moment due to consoles giving way bigger boosts? Basically, I mean make each career actually worth playing, rather than everyone going TAC!
I know you've already said how we earn the skills, but can you confirm that there is no monetisation going to happen with respect to earning more points or skills with-in this system and that it is basically the same as the current system of earning skill points etc.
Cheers.
sorry but that UI is totally un-intuitive. Everything is going to be in tooltips? Wut?
Make the system easier for new players but making it more difficult for the millions of current ones.
Another "don't like" vote
You will not get an answer as it has already been stated that answers regarding individual things won't be answered as Bort would be here till next millenium answering each possible variation.
I also wonder if we will see new consoles immediately or in the future to enhance all the new skills that are being added? They've already stated that some of the new skills will be added to some old equipment during the transition so that answers that question.
If you had read through the thread, he says consoles will be adjusted. That's it. I'm sure they will take into account the console's properties.
On top of that, existing gear which was obtained for the exact purpose of the specs or mods will now be modified.
It is intriguing how even the simplest of bugs can't be fixed, say a working +10% shield capacity trait, or any of the countless bug reports that flood in, yet entirely redundant overhauls like this get pushed forward, inevitably introducing more bugs to compound existing ones.
If there is something positive here, it's the opportunity to do a balance pass that hopefully goes much deeper than the cannons vs beams damage drop off point adjustments, pet de-nerfs, and boosting previously obsolete (nerfed a very long time ago) science powers - all of which I hope gets followed through with a change in game dynamics (more skilled NPCs) - and without making our captain careers suddenly grossly underperform when using the entire range of ship classes.
Finally, I believe it is entirely reasonable to request more than 1 free respec token. Why? When we leveled while subscribed, we got a token while leveling to use and tweak a now-outdated system. Then we bought respec tokens for each character after having figured out that old system to our liking. Now, all of that's out the window, no different than say one's precious ship being deleted because 'change', and when this goes live, everyone will be unable to play, sitting a 0, and an empty Tribble test server with no way to pug to test and re-test over and over is a sure way to bring the game to a halt for the greater non-LTS majority.
In all likelihood, yes. From the ground up STO is pretty much built to mix and match class attributes (for example, through unrestricted ship choice between ENG/SCI/TAC.) I can't imagine a skill tree revamp (which has to accommodate existing builds and playstyles, like my Sci focused Tac
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Hoping it'll be fun, though.
*fingers crossed*
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"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
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Just as an example, I'm currently specced into driver coil to minimise the power drain from full impulse. While not vital for my build, I'd like to keep it that way, which I may not be able to, if the Driver Coil unlock is put behind a barrier of needing to have selected a dozen or so Engineering track skills.
As far as I'm concerned, the skill revamp will end up fine ... "if" the players get into tribble and beta test the heck out of it and reply to the devs ... and "if" the dev team actually makes changes to the new skill system in the event that players find problems.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
I fly mostly cookie-cutter skill specs because I can't afford to "flexibly experiment." Freespecs would've been maybe a better solution, but if new cookies are big enough to accomodate flying with, say, energy and torp ships on the same alt with the same skills, I'm fine with cookie-cutters.
My decryption implant thinks so but it's hard to be sure.
My character Tsin'xing
Although you could add 0-9 pumps into any given skill, as a practical matter the number of pumps put into any skill were typically either 0, 3, 6 or 9, with any other values typically being a rarity due to having "leftover" points from expenditures elsewhere in the build. Thus, going to an investment of 0, 1, 2 or 3 skill points in the new system aligns fairly closely with previous options.
0, 3, 6, 9
0, 1, 2, 3
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground