thread derailed, only troll survivors. And no marcus, being 'murikan doesn't have anything to do with Peters' arrogance, as pointed out there are plenty of arrogant TRIBBLE among all cultures :P Or would you classify Mao, Hitler, Stalin, or Saddam as humble?
A friendly reminder - A good rule of thumb is always "Don't Feed the Trolls" aka don't react to clearly baddie bad material. That's how we end up with entire thread detailed & moderators have to come and fix it.
Play nice, folks.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
so now that the mod has cleaned house.... anyone have anything new on the actual axanar suit front?
Yeah, as I was saying... They're citing use of TrekVerse content as the reason for the suit... The million dollars is mentioned as a 'by the way' note, rather than a specific complaint... They do use the term commercial venture, but I'd guess that they'll have to prove exactly how much profit was raised beyond the actual production costs... Using any of the money to set up Ares Studios wasn't kosher, and I hope Alex Peters feels the full weight of the law for it... I think the only truly 'commercial venture' was the coffee, and I think they're saying that they did that off Axanar, rather than off Star Trek, so it's going to come down to splitting hairs and arguing definitions and constitution of something... I still think that Beyond and the streaming subscription is the true motive, but CBS/Paramount dressed it up as an infringement suit because it's potentially easier to prove, and less likely to get them laughed out of court for being scared of potential competition...
A friendly reminder - A good rule of thumb is always "Don't Feed the Trolls" aka don't react to clearly baddie bad material. That's how we end up with entire thread detailed & moderators have to come and fix it.
Play nice, folks.
If my posts were a breach of TOS, a PM would have been sufficient... If you felt the posts required deletion, fine, but do it in a clean and professional manner, rather than being deliberately antagonistic with snarky edits... Consider the topic dropped...
so now that the mod has cleaned house.... anyone have anything new on the actual axanar suit front?
Yeah, as I was saying... They're citing use of TrekVerse content as the reason for the suit... The million dollars is mentioned as a 'by the way' note, rather than a specific complaint... They do use the term commercial venture, but I'd guess that they'll have to prove exactly how much profit was raised beyond the actual production costs... Using any of the money to set up Ares Studios wasn't kosher, and I hope Alex Peters feels the full weight of the law for it... I think the only truly 'commercial venture' was the coffee, and I think they're saying that they did that off Axanar, rather than off Star Trek, so it's going to come down to splitting hairs and arguing definitions and constitution of something... I still think that Beyond and the streaming subscription is the true motive, but CBS/Paramount dressed it up as an infringement suit because it's potentially easier to prove, and less likely to get them laughed out of court for being scared of potential competition...
[Edit to add link]
Alec Peters gave then all the proof they (CBS) need. He took a 38K salary and his wife took a salary that deffered until 2016. Some have brought up 'non-profit' and 'not-for-profit' entities right to pay their CEOs a salary; BUT 'Axanar Productions' WAS NOT STARTED as 'non-profit' or 'not for profit' by their own LLC filings. Mr. Peters has stated they had were looking into doing a 'non-profit' filing as far back as December 11, 2015, BUT NEVER DID file for 'non-profit' status. Therefore his salary = profit (and even if he tries the "I'm a member of SAG and the 38K was my appearance fee for Prelude to Axanar" - his own social media statements about his salary don't indicate that (and they are admissible as evidence); and his wife certainly isn't a member of SAG - or in any entertainment industry union that would warrant her receiving a salary.
There's also the matter of Backer money being used to pay for air fare, lodging, convention booths and admission to various Star trek and Science Fiction Conventions. What do those expenses have to do/how can they be claimed as 'production expenses' for what is claimed to be a 'non-commercial' venture? Since when is 'promotion' considered a 'production cost' in a non-commercial venture?
In the end. Mr. Peters has no one to blame but himself; and all his social media comments and his Axanar Expenses report have given everything CBS needs to prove their case, and prove damages by Mr. peters using their Star Trek IP for his own personal monetary gain.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
so now that the mod has cleaned house.... anyone have anything new on the actual axanar suit front?
Yeah, as I was saying... They're citing use of TrekVerse content as the reason for the suit... The million dollars is mentioned as a 'by the way' note, rather than a specific complaint... They do use the term commercial venture, but I'd guess that they'll have to prove exactly how much profit was raised beyond the actual production costs... Using any of the money to set up Ares Studios wasn't kosher, and I hope Alex Peters feels the full weight of the law for it... I think the only truly 'commercial venture' was the coffee, and I think they're saying that they did that off Axanar, rather than off Star Trek, so it's going to come down to splitting hairs and arguing definitions and constitution of something... I still think that Beyond and the streaming subscription is the true motive, but CBS/Paramount dressed it up as an infringement suit because it's potentially easier to prove, and less likely to get them laughed out of court for being scared of potential competition...
[Edit to add link]
Alec Peters gave then all the proof they (CBS) need. He took a 38K salary and his wife took a salary that deffered until 2016. Some have brought up 'non-profit' and 'not-for-profit' entities right to pay their CEOs a salary; BUT 'Axanar Productions' WAS NOT STARTED as 'non-profit' or 'not for profit' by their own LLC filings. Mr. Peters has stated they had were looking into doing a 'non-profit' filing as far back as December 11, 2015, BUT NEVER DID file for 'non-profit' status. Therefore his salary = profit (and even if he tries the "I'm a member of SAG and the 38K was my appearance fee for Prelude to Axanar" - his own social media statements about his salary don't indicate that (and they are admissible as evidence); and his wife certainly isn't a member of SAG - or in any entertainment industry union that would warrant her receiving a salary.
There's also the matter of Backer money being used to pay for air fare, lodging, convention booths and admission to various Star trek and Science Fiction Conventions. What do those expenses have to do/how can they be claimed as 'production expenses' for what is claimed to be a 'non-commercial' venture? Since when is 'promotion' considered a 'production cost' in a non-commercial venture?
In the end. Mr. Peters has no one to blame but himself; and all his social media comments and his Axanar Expenses report have given everything CBS needs to prove their case, and prove damages by Mr. peters using their Star Trek IP for his own personal monetary gain.
I get what you're saying, but purely as playing Devil's Advocate, I can see how those salaries could be considered as production costs rather than profit... I understand that may not legally be the case, but I can very easily see how that may be the kind of defence they try and swing.
With regards conventions, that's potentially even easier to defend... I know an actress who attends conventions in the UK, and I know that her train fair and hotel costs are reimbursed to her by the convention. I've seen comments on social media from fans in America asking if she will attend American conventions, to which she has always replied that it's not as simple as if she personally wants to go somewhere (or she'd likely attend them all) but a matter of if the convention extends the invitation and flies her out. If that is anywhere near a standard practice, then Axanar Productions likely got to those conventions for free, under hospitality of the convention itself... I certainly wouldn't expect the be paying admission fees to an event they have been invited as guests to appear at...
Having followed another kickstarter sci-fi movie production, I saw lots of updates showing the producers at meals with folks. At one point, a backer called them out as to if anything was ever going to get done and released. I actually stopped following at that point because it seemed to me that the producers were simply an easy life off the backers' dime. So I certainly don't condone the behaviour, but I can understand that taking an actor or set designer out for a meal to get them on board could be considered a business expense, as it's aimed towards that particular project. Again, I'm not saying I condone it, but I can see that point of view...
Now, Alec Peters using money to create Ares Studios as a viable studio for ongoing projects, rather than an Axanar Specific facility, as I've repeatedly said, I consider massively unethical and I hope he swings for it (legally speaking)
But. Absolutely none of that matters because that is not what CBS/Paramount are suing for. They are very clearly only suing for, in their own word 'innumerable' uses of TrekVerse IP: Characters, races, locations, technology etc. They are not going after Axanar Productions (and I read that suit as applying to others such as the writers, who are named as Does) for drawing a salary off a non-profit organisation (regardless of if they filed the paperwork or not) nor for establishing a film studio for ongoing projects. They're going after them for using Star Trek IP... If Alec Peters can prove that he was given the go ahead to make the project, he could potentially walk... I don't agree with that, and feel he should be held to account for the misuse of the funds to create Ares Studios, but that isn't the suit which has been brought against him, and I can very easily see how he could attempt to defend himself from the suit which has been brought, and it'll be up to the court to accept or reject that defence...
Can anyone tell me. WHY CBS/Paramount didn't setup a review board. To review request from fans to do thing like AXANAR, Renegades, New Voyages, Continuing Mission, ECT.
It would have save a lot of headaces on both sides. Also I don't know why CBS/Paramount doesn't have a small team of people who could Lasion on Projects Like AXANAR, New Voyages and the like. To protect the Legacy that is Star Trek.
CBS/Paramount cook it own goose. By not stepping in earlier. When AXANAR first started raising funds through crowdfunding. They could have said the this type of fund raising fan project is something we have to stop. Because they feel this type of project enters into the area of being an ind type film project.
Can anyone tell me. WHY CBS/Paramount didn't setup a review board. To review request from fans to do thing like AXANAR, Renegades, New Voyages, Continuing Mission, ECT.
It would have save a lot of headaces on both sides. Also I don't know why CBS/Paramount doesn't have a small team of people who could Lasion on Projects Like AXANAR, New Voyages and the like. To protect the Legacy that is Star Trek.
CBS/Paramount cook it own goose. By not stepping in earlier. When AXANAR first started raising funds through crowdfunding. They could have said the this type of fund raising fan project is something we have to stop. Because they feel this type of project enters into the area of being an ind type film project.
Fundraising by itself is not the issue. It's what the funds raised were used for, at least that's what we suspect given the lawsuit was initiated after Peters published the expense report.
And to answer your other questions, aside from the "liason" I think CBS has all of these. Renegades and Continued are authorized fan productions. Axanar never got authorization for anything, they were fine as long as they didn't make any profit.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Can anyone tell me. WHY CBS/Paramount didn't setup a review board. To review request from fans to do thing like AXANAR, Renegades, New Voyages, Continuing Mission, ECT.
Because despite how much we love this franchise, we're a minority. In the CBS/Paramount corporate view, we're a second-string production. CBS is all about their procedurals right now, with emphasis on the NCIS and Criminal Minds franchises, while Paramount is more focused on pure action flicks like the Transformers movies.
Second-string still gets defended, because it's still a string, but it's not quite so proactive as the defense of the first-string properties.
Can anyone tell me. WHY CBS/Paramount didn't setup a review board. To review request from fans to do thing like AXANAR, Renegades, New Voyages, Continuing Mission, ECT.
It would have save a lot of headaces on both sides. Also I don't know why CBS/Paramount doesn't have a small team of people who could Lasion on Projects Like AXANAR, New Voyages and the like. To protect the Legacy that is Star Trek.
CBS/Paramount cook it own goose. By not stepping in earlier. When AXANAR first started raising funds through crowdfunding. They could have said the this type of fund raising fan project is something we have to stop. Because they feel this type of project enters into the area of being an ind type film project.
For the simple reason that they don't have to...
They likely do have a coordinating liason who fields contacts from folks who contact them about doing a fan project, who likely sends them a list of guidelines. That's certainly what happened to me when I wrote to Paramount to ask about the submissions process for sending in scripts for Deep Space Nine, and when I wrote to Pocket Books with the same question.
This is why the Axanar issue is getting clouded. According to Alec Peters (who is hardly the most reliable source, but, giving him the benefit of the doubt for a moment) they were told what they could and could not do. As I pointed out above, and as the papers which the lawsuit state, which I posted a direct link to, the suit is simply down to IP violations and the use of things from the TrekVerse, as if no permissions of any kind were ever granted...
I think you're right that CBS/Paramount have cooked their own goose here, because if Alec Peters can prove that he was given permission to use the IP (even if with guidelines) it will nullify CBS/Paramount's claim that he used those things without their permission.
Now if they had cited specific violations of their guidelines, that would probably be an easier case to prove and win. Personally, I can see Alec Peters beating the CBS/Paramount suit, but still getting stung by a class action for misuse of funds/obtaining funds by deception from Axanar's supporting donors...
And to answer your other questions, aside from the "liason" I think CBS has all of these. Renegades and Continued are authorized fan productions. Axanar never got authorization for anything, they were fine as long as they didn't make any profit.
^^^
Um, NO, they are not 'authorized fan productions' at all - there is NO SUCH THING officially. These productions have claimed contact with CBS in an unofficial capacity and have claimed a set of unofficial guidelines have been communicated to them. What they claim is the CBS has told them they probably would not face a lawsuit while they kept within said unofficial guidelines. People like you spreading the false claim that they are 'official' when they aren't probably increases the chances of a similar copyright suit down the road as this type of confusion is not something CBS wants. If you go to the sites for "Star Trek Renegades" or "Star Trek Continues" - NOWHERE willl you see them claim they are 'official fan productions' and give the lawsuit and continued actions of the Axanar group all existing fan productions are rightfully concerned CBS could decide to shut them all down and be done with it.
(Further proof these are not official is that Renegades was set to use a script penned by Melinda Snodgrass (a former TNG script writer when that show was in production.) She withdrew from Renegades because of the Axanar situation; and didn't want her name associated with something that could also end up being sued by CBS.
TLDR; There is NO SUCH THING as an 'official Star Trek fan based production'. At this point any one of the existing Star Trek fan production groups could receive a 'Cease & Desist' notification; and further legal action (aka a similar copyright violation lawsuit) if they ignore said C&D order.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
And to answer your other questions, aside from the "liason" I think CBS has all of these. Renegades and Continued are authorized fan productions. Axanar never got authorization for anything, they were fine as long as they didn't make any profit.
^^^
Um, NO, they are not 'authorized fan productions' at all - there is NO SUCH THING officially. These productions have claimed contact with CBS in an unofficial capacity and have claimed a set of unofficial guidelines have been communicated to them. What they claim is the CBS has told them they probably would not face a lawsuit while they kept within said unofficial guidelines. People like you spreading the false claim that they are 'official' when they aren't probably increases the chances of a similar copyright suit down the road as this type of confusion is not something CBS wants. If you go to the sites for "Star Trek Renegades" or "Star Trek Continues" - NOWHERE willl you see them claim they are 'official fan productions' and give the lawsuit and continued actions of the Axanar group all existing fan productions are rightfully concerned CBS could decide to shut them all down and be done with it.
(Further proof these are not official is that Renegades was set to use a script penned by Melinda Snodgrass (a former TNG script writer when that show was in production.) She withdrew from Renegades because of the Axanar situation; and didn't want her name associated with something that could also end up being sued by CBS.
TLDR; There is NO SUCH THING as an 'official Star Trek fan based production'. At this point any one of the existing Star Trek fan production groups could receive a 'Cease & Desist' notification; and further legal action (aka a similar copyright violation lawsuit) if they ignore said C&D order.
Star Trek Continues have said that they work closely with CBS to maintain a good relationship, and CBS have gone to bat for them against YouTube, but indeed, they have never claimed to be 'an official fan-based production'... (although IMHO, they deserve to be and I know there are quite a few players with a Dr McKennah on their crew )
And to answer your other questions, aside from the "liason" I think CBS has all of these. Renegades and Continued are authorized fan productions. Axanar never got authorization for anything, they were fine as long as they didn't make any profit.
^^^
Um, NO, they are not 'authorized fan productions' at all - there is NO SUCH THING officially. These productions have claimed contact with CBS in an unofficial capacity and have claimed a set of unofficial guidelines have been communicated to them. What they claim is the CBS has told them they probably would not face a lawsuit while they kept within said unofficial guidelines. People like you spreading the false claim that they are 'official' when they aren't probably increases the chances of a similar copyright suit down the road as this type of confusion is not something CBS wants. If you go to the sites for "Star Trek Renegades" or "Star Trek Continues" - NOWHERE willl you see them claim they are 'official fan productions' and give the lawsuit and continued actions of the Axanar group all existing fan productions are rightfully concerned CBS could decide to shut them all down and be done with it.
(Further proof these are not official is that Renegades was set to use a script penned by Melinda Snodgrass (a former TNG script writer when that show was in production.) She withdrew from Renegades because of the Axanar situation; and didn't want her name associated with something that could also end up being sued by CBS.
TLDR; There is NO SUCH THING as an 'official Star Trek fan based production'. At this point any one of the existing Star Trek fan production groups could receive a 'Cease & Desist' notification; and further legal action (aka a similar copyright violation lawsuit) if they ignore said C&D order.
Star Trek Continues have said that they work closely with CBS to maintain a good relationship, and CBS have gone to bat for them against YouTube, but indeed, they have never claimed to be 'an official fan-based production'... (although IMHO, they deserve to be and I know there are quite a few players with a Dr McKennah on their crew )
Again, CBS has never 'gone to bat for them vs YouTube. It's more that CBS has kept silent/not responded when Youtube's automated DMCA sniffer has flagged and blocked one or more of their productions - and the fan production it's happened to requests to get their video reinstated. Again, silence or inaction DOESN'T EQUAL blanket approval; or grant any sort of protected status. And again, you or anyone inferring or promoting that you think it does only makes CBS lawyers MORE likely to start issuing C&D orders as this type of confusion is what they see as damaging to their commercialization and Marketing of their Star Trek trademarks, etc. because that can affect their bottom line/profitability in the long run.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
And to answer your other questions, aside from the "liason" I think CBS has all of these. Renegades and Continued are authorized fan productions. Axanar never got authorization for anything, they were fine as long as they didn't make any profit.
^^^
Um, NO, they are not 'authorized fan productions' at all - there is NO SUCH THING officially. These productions have claimed contact with CBS in an unofficial capacity and have claimed a set of unofficial guidelines have been communicated to them. What they claim is the CBS has told them they probably would not face a lawsuit while they kept within said unofficial guidelines. People like you spreading the false claim that they are 'official' when they aren't probably increases the chances of a similar copyright suit down the road as this type of confusion is not something CBS wants. If you go to the sites for "Star Trek Renegades" or "Star Trek Continues" - NOWHERE willl you see them claim they are 'official fan productions' and give the lawsuit and continued actions of the Axanar group all existing fan productions are rightfully concerned CBS could decide to shut them all down and be done with it.
(Further proof these are not official is that Renegades was set to use a script penned by Melinda Snodgrass (a former TNG script writer when that show was in production.) She withdrew from Renegades because of the Axanar situation; and didn't want her name associated with something that could also end up being sued by CBS.
TLDR; There is NO SUCH THING as an 'official Star Trek fan based production'. At this point any one of the existing Star Trek fan production groups could receive a 'Cease & Desist' notification; and further legal action (aka a similar copyright violation lawsuit) if they ignore said C&D order.
Star Trek Continues have said that they work closely with CBS to maintain a good relationship, and CBS have gone to bat for them against YouTube, but indeed, they have never claimed to be 'an official fan-based production'... (although IMHO, they deserve to be and I know there are quite a few players with a Dr McKennah on their crew )
Again, CBS has never 'gone to bat for them vs YouTube. It's more that CBS has kept silent/not responded when Youtube's automated DMCA sniffer has flagged and blocked one or more of their productions - and the fan production it's happened to requests to get their video reinstated. Again, silence or inaction DOESN'T EQUAL blanket approval; or grant any sort of protected status. And again, you or anyone inferring or promoting that you think it does only makes CBS lawyers MORE likely to start issuing C&D orders as this type of confusion is what they see as damaging to their commercialization and Marketing of their Star Trek trademarks, etc. because that can affect their bottom line/profitability in the long run.
Yes, they have. A post was made by Star Trek Continues after one of their newly hosted episodes was withdrawn by YouTube for being a copyright infringement. From what I recall of the post, it was explained that CBS contacted YouTube and had the episode re-hosted. It was said, with clear respect, that STC worked within the guidelines given them by CBs, and that they had a good relationship with them and appreciated their help on the matter... I agree, it doesn't mean blanket approval at all, but it's not something I've made up just for the sake of posting something...
I find it interesting that Renegades has said 0 at all on the issue.
They're doing the smart thing and not commenting while there is ongoing litigation.
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I find it interesting that Renegades has said 0 at all on the issue.
I don't believe STC has said anything about it either, the instance of CBS going to bat for them and Vic Mignogna thanking them for their support on the matter, was last year...
Never watched much of STC, it was cool n all but didnt work for me. I kinda expected a little something from Renegades tho considering there are more parallels between Axanar and Renegades than STC and Axanar. I don't expect them to wade in supporting either side or anything but more a 'we're still on course, no lawsuits yet'
Never watched much of STC, it was cool n all but didnt work for me. I kinda expected a little something from Renegades tho considering there are more parallels between Axanar and Renegades than STC and Axanar. I don't expect them to wade in supporting either side or anything but more a 'we're still on course, no lawsuits yet'
I guess they might feel they don't need to say anything at all, and might feel that any commentary at all could be taken as taking sides, which is a double-edged sword: They won't want to alienate themselves with CBS/Paramount, but equally, the convention circuit's a pretty small one, so they likely wouldn't want to say something which may offend folks they're quite likely to run into In the Wild, which could make things awkward when folks mostly go to conventions to have a good time (or if you're really messed up in the head, to shoot Claudia Christian... >_< )
Never watched much of STC, it was cool n all but didnt work for me. I kinda expected a little something from Renegades tho considering there are more parallels between Axanar and Renegades than STC and Axanar. I don't expect them to wade in supporting either side or anything but more a 'we're still on course, no lawsuits yet'
I guess they might feel they don't need to say anything at all, and might feel that any commentary at all could be taken as taking sides, which is a double-edged sword: They won't want to alienate themselves with CBS/Paramount, but equally, the convention circuit's a pretty small one, so they likely wouldn't want to say something which may offend folks they're quite likely to run into In the Wild, which could make things awkward when folks mostly go to conventions to have a good time (or if you're really messed up in the head, to shoot Claudia Christian... >_< )
The only comment from the 'Renegades' production staff of late is that Melinda Snodgrass withdrew the script she had written for them (Here's a link to what she said on her site when she accept the 'job' to do a script): http://melindasnodgrass.com/star-trek-renegades
They have stated they have a backup script they are going to use for their concluding episode (assuming they don't get served a C&D at some point.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
^^^
Um, NO, they are not 'authorized fan productions' at all - there is NO SUCH THING officially. These productions have claimed contact with CBS in an unofficial capacity and have claimed a set of unofficial guidelines have been communicated to them. What they claim is the CBS has told them they probably would not face a lawsuit while they kept within said unofficial guidelines. People like you spreading the false claim that they are 'official' when they aren't probably increases the chances of a similar copyright suit down the road as this type of confusion is not something CBS wants. If you go to the sites for "Star Trek Renegades" or "Star Trek Continues" - NOWHERE willl you see them claim they are 'official fan productions' and give the lawsuit and continued actions of the Axanar group all existing fan productions are rightfully concerned CBS could decide to shut them all down and be done with it.
(Further proof these are not official is that Renegades was set to use a script penned by Melinda Snodgrass (a former TNG script writer when that show was in production.) She withdrew from Renegades because of the Axanar situation; and didn't want her name associated with something that could also end up being sued by CBS.
TLDR; There is NO SUCH THING as an 'official Star Trek fan based production'. At this point any one of the existing Star Trek fan production groups could receive a 'Cease & Desist' notification; and further legal action (aka a similar copyright violation lawsuit) if they ignore said C&D order.
I never even once used the term "official fan production". If you go batshit crazy on someone at least don't make up the term you are scolding them for.
When they had CBS contact and were issued guidelines within they are allowed to operate then they are allowed to operate within these guidelines which makes their production authorized. If the guideline is "don't make profit" they are authorized to do whatever they want as long as they don't violate this principle, which Axanar did.
So there has to be a contact with the IP holder talking to those people. Wether or not this is official or inofficial we don't know.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Never watched much of STC, it was cool n all but didnt work for me. I kinda expected a little something from Renegades tho considering there are more parallels between Axanar and Renegades than STC and Axanar. I don't expect them to wade in supporting either side or anything but more a 'we're still on course, no lawsuits yet'
I guess they might feel they don't need to say anything at all, and might feel that any commentary at all could be taken as taking sides, which is a double-edged sword: They won't want to alienate themselves with CBS/Paramount, but equally, the convention circuit's a pretty small one, so they likely wouldn't want to say something which may offend folks they're quite likely to run into In the Wild, which could make things awkward when folks mostly go to conventions to have a good time (or if you're really messed up in the head, to shoot Claudia Christian... >_< )
The only comment from the 'Renegades' production staff of late is that Melinda Snodgrass withdrew the script she had written for them (Here's a link to what she said on her site when she accept the 'job' to do a script): http://melindasnodgrass.com/star-trek-renegades
They have stated they have a backup script they are going to use for their concluding episode (assuming they don't get served a C&D at some point.)
Thanks for sharing, her thoughts rather mirror my own that Beyond and the new series are factors, and that CBS/Paramount's tollerance of other projects seriously weakens their case against Axanar... As I said upthread, I can see Alec Peters potentially beating this suit for that reason. CBS/Paramount may have 'the letter of the law' on their side, but not the spirit of it, and as Ms Snodgrass noted, their 'hands are dirty'...
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If my posts were a breach of TOS, a PM would have been sufficient... If you felt the posts required deletion, fine, but do it in a clean and professional manner, rather than being deliberately antagonistic with snarky edits... Consider the topic dropped...
Alec Peters gave then all the proof they (CBS) need. He took a 38K salary and his wife took a salary that deffered until 2016. Some have brought up 'non-profit' and 'not-for-profit' entities right to pay their CEOs a salary; BUT 'Axanar Productions' WAS NOT STARTED as 'non-profit' or 'not for profit' by their own LLC filings. Mr. Peters has stated they had were looking into doing a 'non-profit' filing as far back as December 11, 2015, BUT NEVER DID file for 'non-profit' status. Therefore his salary = profit (and even if he tries the "I'm a member of SAG and the 38K was my appearance fee for Prelude to Axanar" - his own social media statements about his salary don't indicate that (and they are admissible as evidence); and his wife certainly isn't a member of SAG - or in any entertainment industry union that would warrant her receiving a salary.
There's also the matter of Backer money being used to pay for air fare, lodging, convention booths and admission to various Star trek and Science Fiction Conventions. What do those expenses have to do/how can they be claimed as 'production expenses' for what is claimed to be a 'non-commercial' venture? Since when is 'promotion' considered a 'production cost' in a non-commercial venture?
In the end. Mr. Peters has no one to blame but himself; and all his social media comments and his Axanar Expenses report have given everything CBS needs to prove their case, and prove damages by Mr. peters using their Star Trek IP for his own personal monetary gain.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
With regards conventions, that's potentially even easier to defend... I know an actress who attends conventions in the UK, and I know that her train fair and hotel costs are reimbursed to her by the convention. I've seen comments on social media from fans in America asking if she will attend American conventions, to which she has always replied that it's not as simple as if she personally wants to go somewhere (or she'd likely attend them all) but a matter of if the convention extends the invitation and flies her out. If that is anywhere near a standard practice, then Axanar Productions likely got to those conventions for free, under hospitality of the convention itself... I certainly wouldn't expect the be paying admission fees to an event they have been invited as guests to appear at...
Having followed another kickstarter sci-fi movie production, I saw lots of updates showing the producers at meals with folks. At one point, a backer called them out as to if anything was ever going to get done and released. I actually stopped following at that point because it seemed to me that the producers were simply an easy life off the backers' dime. So I certainly don't condone the behaviour, but I can understand that taking an actor or set designer out for a meal to get them on board could be considered a business expense, as it's aimed towards that particular project. Again, I'm not saying I condone it, but I can see that point of view...
Now, Alec Peters using money to create Ares Studios as a viable studio for ongoing projects, rather than an Axanar Specific facility, as I've repeatedly said, I consider massively unethical and I hope he swings for it (legally speaking)
But. Absolutely none of that matters because that is not what CBS/Paramount are suing for. They are very clearly only suing for, in their own word 'innumerable' uses of TrekVerse IP: Characters, races, locations, technology etc. They are not going after Axanar Productions (and I read that suit as applying to others such as the writers, who are named as Does) for drawing a salary off a non-profit organisation (regardless of if they filed the paperwork or not) nor for establishing a film studio for ongoing projects. They're going after them for using Star Trek IP... If Alec Peters can prove that he was given the go ahead to make the project, he could potentially walk... I don't agree with that, and feel he should be held to account for the misuse of the funds to create Ares Studios, but that isn't the suit which has been brought against him, and I can very easily see how he could attempt to defend himself from the suit which has been brought, and it'll be up to the court to accept or reject that defence...
It would have save a lot of headaces on both sides. Also I don't know why CBS/Paramount doesn't have a small team of people who could Lasion on Projects Like AXANAR, New Voyages and the like. To protect the Legacy that is Star Trek.
CBS/Paramount cook it own goose. By not stepping in earlier. When AXANAR first started raising funds through crowdfunding. They could have said the this type of fund raising fan project is something we have to stop. Because they feel this type of project enters into the area of being an ind type film project.
Fundraising by itself is not the issue. It's what the funds raised were used for, at least that's what we suspect given the lawsuit was initiated after Peters published the expense report.
And to answer your other questions, aside from the "liason" I think CBS has all of these. Renegades and Continued are authorized fan productions. Axanar never got authorization for anything, they were fine as long as they didn't make any profit.
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Second-string still gets defended, because it's still a string, but it's not quite so proactive as the defense of the first-string properties.
They likely do have a coordinating liason who fields contacts from folks who contact them about doing a fan project, who likely sends them a list of guidelines. That's certainly what happened to me when I wrote to Paramount to ask about the submissions process for sending in scripts for Deep Space Nine, and when I wrote to Pocket Books with the same question.
This is why the Axanar issue is getting clouded. According to Alec Peters (who is hardly the most reliable source, but, giving him the benefit of the doubt for a moment) they were told what they could and could not do. As I pointed out above, and as the papers which the lawsuit state, which I posted a direct link to, the suit is simply down to IP violations and the use of things from the TrekVerse, as if no permissions of any kind were ever granted...
I think you're right that CBS/Paramount have cooked their own goose here, because if Alec Peters can prove that he was given permission to use the IP (even if with guidelines) it will nullify CBS/Paramount's claim that he used those things without their permission.
Now if they had cited specific violations of their guidelines, that would probably be an easier case to prove and win. Personally, I can see Alec Peters beating the CBS/Paramount suit, but still getting stung by a class action for misuse of funds/obtaining funds by deception from Axanar's supporting donors...
Um, NO, they are not 'authorized fan productions' at all - there is NO SUCH THING officially. These productions have claimed contact with CBS in an unofficial capacity and have claimed a set of unofficial guidelines have been communicated to them. What they claim is the CBS has told them they probably would not face a lawsuit while they kept within said unofficial guidelines. People like you spreading the false claim that they are 'official' when they aren't probably increases the chances of a similar copyright suit down the road as this type of confusion is not something CBS wants. If you go to the sites for "Star Trek Renegades" or "Star Trek Continues" - NOWHERE willl you see them claim they are 'official fan productions' and give the lawsuit and continued actions of the Axanar group all existing fan productions are rightfully concerned CBS could decide to shut them all down and be done with it.
(Further proof these are not official is that Renegades was set to use a script penned by Melinda Snodgrass (a former TNG script writer when that show was in production.) She withdrew from Renegades because of the Axanar situation; and didn't want her name associated with something that could also end up being sued by CBS.
TLDR; There is NO SUCH THING as an 'official Star Trek fan based production'. At this point any one of the existing Star Trek fan production groups could receive a 'Cease & Desist' notification; and further legal action (aka a similar copyright violation lawsuit) if they ignore said C&D order.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Again, CBS has never 'gone to bat for them vs YouTube. It's more that CBS has kept silent/not responded when Youtube's automated DMCA sniffer has flagged and blocked one or more of their productions - and the fan production it's happened to requests to get their video reinstated. Again, silence or inaction DOESN'T EQUAL blanket approval; or grant any sort of protected status. And again, you or anyone inferring or promoting that you think it does only makes CBS lawyers MORE likely to start issuing C&D orders as this type of confusion is what they see as damaging to their commercialization and Marketing of their Star Trek trademarks, etc. because that can affect their bottom line/profitability in the long run.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
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They're doing the smart thing and not commenting while there is ongoing litigation.
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The only comment from the 'Renegades' production staff of late is that Melinda Snodgrass withdrew the script she had written for them (Here's a link to what she said on her site when she accept the 'job' to do a script):
http://melindasnodgrass.com/star-trek-renegades
And the Facebook post discussing her decision to back out:
https://www.facebook.com/melinda.m.snodgrass/posts/10207542606916131
They have stated they have a backup script they are going to use for their concluding episode (assuming they don't get served a C&D at some point.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I never even once used the term "official fan production". If you go batshit crazy on someone at least don't make up the term you are scolding them for.
When they had CBS contact and were issued guidelines within they are allowed to operate then they are allowed to operate within these guidelines which makes their production authorized. If the guideline is "don't make profit" they are authorized to do whatever they want as long as they don't violate this principle, which Axanar did.
So there has to be a contact with the IP holder talking to those people. Wether or not this is official or inofficial we don't know.
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