[snip]
No, it doesn't make it legal, but it does prove precedents where CBS/Paramount failed to vigorously defend the IP. As I've said throughout this discussion, it might not be enough to exonerate the Axanar producers, but it does put CBS/Paramount in a less-than-perfect position, and that given the terms of the suit (not the million bucks or salary or film studio) is what the suit will be decided upon and it'll be considerably examined...
[snip]
According to an attorney posting on the trekbbs forums, failure to vigorously defend the IP is irrelevant. Only trademark can be lost due to lack of defense, IP can't.
Guys just a word of concern you can bet this thread is being looked at very often so to keep it open etc we need amd must refrain from comments that are questionable and personal.
We all have a vested interest in this issue due to its nature and we are passionate about it also but we can't break the forum rules by starting flames.
just wanted to voice my concerns over a few comments is all.
[snip]
No, it doesn't make it legal, but it does prove precedents where CBS/Paramount failed to vigorously defend the IP. As I've said throughout this discussion, it might not be enough to exonerate the Axanar producers, but it does put CBS/Paramount in a less-than-perfect position, and that given the terms of the suit (not the million bucks or salary or film studio) is what the suit will be decided upon and it'll be considerably examined...
[snip]
According to an attorney posting on the trekbbs forums, failure to vigorously defend the IP is irrelevant. Only trademark can be lost due to lack of defense, IP can't.
Then that shouldn't weaken CBS/Paramount's position, and only time will tell how the case resolves.
Marcus, your statement was indeed arrogant, not to mention condescending - and if public arrogance is to be considered a uniquely American attribute, you must therefore be an American, n'est-ce pas?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Note: in the comments below, I am using the term "American" to refer to the United States, although I understand it does not inherently mean one specific country.
As an American, I *do* understand the perception some people have of arrogant(and that's putting it nicely) Americans, although it is admittedly a stereotype and not necessarily representative of Americans in general. That said, I think this has something to do with it:
Adversity makes men, and prosperity makes monsters.
-Victor Hugo
I think most people would agree that US has had it easier in modern times than many countries. Even other "first world" countries such as England, France, Germany, etc, have all had pretty major devastation from war within the last century. On the other hand, the US has been pretty lucky to be, as one person put it, the only world power in history to be boarded on one side by a friendly neighbor, boarded on one side by a 'weak' neighbor, and boarded on the other 2 sides by oceans.
So again, while I do not think the stereotypical American arrogance is an accurate representation of Americans in general, it is a truism(IMO) that people who essentially inherit prosperity do not always appreciate what it took to create it, and can easily devolve into spoiled brats. See the "affluenza teen" in the news, recently, as an example of what I mean.
Marcus, your statement was indeed arrogant, not to mention condescending - and if public arrogance is to be considered a uniquely American attribute, you must therefore be an American, n'est-ce pas?
Why is it arrogant to observe that some Americans are arrogant? It's an observation. An opinion. Debate is one thing, but when someone tries to belittle the other person, to lower their standing, rather than refuting what they say, that is a behaviour I have frequently observed, and almost universally from Americans, raging from baby-boomers to millenials. Enough that I would almost consider it a part of the social psyche.
With regards the second part, cats have four legs, dogs also have four legs therefore dogs are cats... I don't need to point out the flaws in that kind of 'logic'.
Note: in the comments below, I am using the term "American" to refer to the United States, although I understand it does not inherently mean one specific country.
As an American, I *do* understand the perception some people have of arrogant(and that's putting it nicely) Americans, although it is admittedly a stereotype and not necessarily representative of Americans in general. That said, I think this has something to do with it:
Adversity makes men, and prosperity makes monsters.
-Victor Hugo
I think most people would agree that US has had it easier in modern times than many countries. Even other "first world" countries such as England, France, Germany, etc, have all had pretty major devastation from war within the last century. On the other hand, the US has been pretty lucky to be, as one person put it, the only world power in history to be boarded on one side by a friendly neighbor, boarded on one side by a 'weak' neighbor, and boarded on the other 2 sides by oceans.
So again, while I do not think the stereotypical American arrogance is an accurate representation of Americans in general, it is a truism(IMO) that people who essentially inherit prosperity do not always appreciate what it took to create it, and can easily devolve into spoiled brats. See the "affluenza teen" in the news, recently, as an example of what I mean.
My point precisely, thank you...
I have no beef with Americans as a whole. I was raised watching a lot of American TV imports, reading American novels, and so my internal dialogue, my use of the English language, is US English. Nothing would please me more than for the UK to become the 51st state, because then I'd get some Constitutional Rights... But there are some Americans who behave in the kind of way Alec Petsrs did in his insult of Tony Todd, which I find contemptible, and I make no apology for holding that view, because it comes from observation of their behaviour... If they behaved in a less entitled and more polite manner, I wouldn't have an issue with them... Simples...
I have no beef with Americans as a whole. I was raised watching a lot of American TV imports, reading American novels, and so my internal dialogue, my use of the English language, is US English. Nothing would please me more than for the UK to become the 51st state, because then I'd get some Constitutional Rights... But there are some Americans who behave in the kind of way Alec Petsrs did in his insult of Tony Todd, which I find contemptible, and I make no apology for holding that view, because it comes from observation of their behaviour... If they behaved in a less entitled and more polite manner, I wouldn't have an issue with them... Simples...
Alec Peters being an arrogant douche has nothing to do with him being an American. It's because he's an arrogant douche. I'm half-American. I've spent most of my life among people of various backgrounds and ethnicities. I've even had muslim roommates in college and in the process met a lot of people from the middle east. Arrogance is a trait shared accross all countries and cultures. Stick to criticizing Alec Peters for what he does. Saying arrogance is why you hate "some Americans" is no more valid than someone saying that terrorism is why they hate some muslims.
Same point to yourself... Do you dispute that the culture the man was raised in, the life he has lived, has shaped his outlook and attitudes?
You're missing the point, Murikan culture, or the lack there of, is not a root cause of being an arrogant prick. People from all over are quite capable of it w/o ever experiencing anything from the USA
I don't really know much about Stalin or Mao, but I'm sure I heard stories about Saddam's expensive tastes (so not humble) and I'm pretty sure my man Addie was a vegan...
Or would you classify Mao, Hitler, Stalin, or Saddam as humble?
I don't really know much about Stalin or Mao, but I'm sure I heard stories about Saddam's expensive tastes (so not humble) and I'm pretty sure my man Addie was a vegan...
Given that arrogance is a trait inherent to a person that transcends ethnicity, I find your lack of humility nor accountability to outshine the average American arrogance. Some of the most arrogant people I have met are the English, Mexicans, Canadians, Japanese, Egyptian, Israeli, Greek, human, Indonesian, American, Chinese, Kazakh, Georgian, Croatian, Algerian, Kenyan, Swedish, South African, etc, hopefully you see a pattern, but given your past comments, I am just talking to a stone.
In regards to Axanar, they are trying to turn a profit using the guise of the Star Trek brand. This suit is justified. Unfortunately, due to Peter's greed and lack of any originality, this will affect any present and future fan film venture. Very sad.
Yes, I do understand what you meant. That said, I don't think you should have said it. Not because it offends me or that that there was anything seriously "wrong" with it, but because it was a stereotype and has only needlessly provoked people and derailed the thread. Your point was that someone was being a jerk, and there was no need to mention any nationality to make that point. Having said that, if anyone was actually offended by that comment, they need to get a grip. Too many people have paper thin skin these days. It is both sad and pathetic.
thread derailed, only troll survivors. And no marcus, being 'murikan doesn't have anything to do with Peters' arrogance, as pointed out there are plenty of arrogant TRIBBLE among all cultures :P Or would you classify Mao, Hitler, Stalin, or Saddam as humble?
A friendly reminder - A good rule of thumb is always "Don't Feed the Trolls" aka don't react to clearly baddie bad material. That's how we end up with entire thread detailed & moderators have to come and fix it.
Play nice, folks.
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
so now that the mod has cleaned house.... anyone have anything new on the actual axanar suit front?
Yeah, as I was saying... They're citing use of TrekVerse content as the reason for the suit... The million dollars is mentioned as a 'by the way' note, rather than a specific complaint... They do use the term commercial venture, but I'd guess that they'll have to prove exactly how much profit was raised beyond the actual production costs... Using any of the money to set up Ares Studios wasn't kosher, and I hope Alex Peters feels the full weight of the law for it... I think the only truly 'commercial venture' was the coffee, and I think they're saying that they did that off Axanar, rather than off Star Trek, so it's going to come down to splitting hairs and arguing definitions and constitution of something... I still think that Beyond and the streaming subscription is the true motive, but CBS/Paramount dressed it up as an infringement suit because it's potentially easier to prove, and less likely to get them laughed out of court for being scared of potential competition...
A friendly reminder - A good rule of thumb is always "Don't Feed the Trolls" aka don't react to clearly baddie bad material. That's how we end up with entire thread detailed & moderators have to come and fix it.
Play nice, folks.
If my posts were a breach of TOS, a PM would have been sufficient... If you felt the posts required deletion, fine, but do it in a clean and professional manner, rather than being deliberately antagonistic with snarky edits... Consider the topic dropped...
so now that the mod has cleaned house.... anyone have anything new on the actual axanar suit front?
Yeah, as I was saying... They're citing use of TrekVerse content as the reason for the suit... The million dollars is mentioned as a 'by the way' note, rather than a specific complaint... They do use the term commercial venture, but I'd guess that they'll have to prove exactly how much profit was raised beyond the actual production costs... Using any of the money to set up Ares Studios wasn't kosher, and I hope Alex Peters feels the full weight of the law for it... I think the only truly 'commercial venture' was the coffee, and I think they're saying that they did that off Axanar, rather than off Star Trek, so it's going to come down to splitting hairs and arguing definitions and constitution of something... I still think that Beyond and the streaming subscription is the true motive, but CBS/Paramount dressed it up as an infringement suit because it's potentially easier to prove, and less likely to get them laughed out of court for being scared of potential competition...
[Edit to add link]
Alec Peters gave then all the proof they (CBS) need. He took a 38K salary and his wife took a salary that deffered until 2016. Some have brought up 'non-profit' and 'not-for-profit' entities right to pay their CEOs a salary; BUT 'Axanar Productions' WAS NOT STARTED as 'non-profit' or 'not for profit' by their own LLC filings. Mr. Peters has stated they had were looking into doing a 'non-profit' filing as far back as December 11, 2015, BUT NEVER DID file for 'non-profit' status. Therefore his salary = profit (and even if he tries the "I'm a member of SAG and the 38K was my appearance fee for Prelude to Axanar" - his own social media statements about his salary don't indicate that (and they are admissible as evidence); and his wife certainly isn't a member of SAG - or in any entertainment industry union that would warrant her receiving a salary.
There's also the matter of Backer money being used to pay for air fare, lodging, convention booths and admission to various Star trek and Science Fiction Conventions. What do those expenses have to do/how can they be claimed as 'production expenses' for what is claimed to be a 'non-commercial' venture? Since when is 'promotion' considered a 'production cost' in a non-commercial venture?
In the end. Mr. Peters has no one to blame but himself; and all his social media comments and his Axanar Expenses report have given everything CBS needs to prove their case, and prove damages by Mr. peters using their Star Trek IP for his own personal monetary gain.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
so now that the mod has cleaned house.... anyone have anything new on the actual axanar suit front?
Yeah, as I was saying... They're citing use of TrekVerse content as the reason for the suit... The million dollars is mentioned as a 'by the way' note, rather than a specific complaint... They do use the term commercial venture, but I'd guess that they'll have to prove exactly how much profit was raised beyond the actual production costs... Using any of the money to set up Ares Studios wasn't kosher, and I hope Alex Peters feels the full weight of the law for it... I think the only truly 'commercial venture' was the coffee, and I think they're saying that they did that off Axanar, rather than off Star Trek, so it's going to come down to splitting hairs and arguing definitions and constitution of something... I still think that Beyond and the streaming subscription is the true motive, but CBS/Paramount dressed it up as an infringement suit because it's potentially easier to prove, and less likely to get them laughed out of court for being scared of potential competition...
[Edit to add link]
Alec Peters gave then all the proof they (CBS) need. He took a 38K salary and his wife took a salary that deffered until 2016. Some have brought up 'non-profit' and 'not-for-profit' entities right to pay their CEOs a salary; BUT 'Axanar Productions' WAS NOT STARTED as 'non-profit' or 'not for profit' by their own LLC filings. Mr. Peters has stated they had were looking into doing a 'non-profit' filing as far back as December 11, 2015, BUT NEVER DID file for 'non-profit' status. Therefore his salary = profit (and even if he tries the "I'm a member of SAG and the 38K was my appearance fee for Prelude to Axanar" - his own social media statements about his salary don't indicate that (and they are admissible as evidence); and his wife certainly isn't a member of SAG - or in any entertainment industry union that would warrant her receiving a salary.
There's also the matter of Backer money being used to pay for air fare, lodging, convention booths and admission to various Star trek and Science Fiction Conventions. What do those expenses have to do/how can they be claimed as 'production expenses' for what is claimed to be a 'non-commercial' venture? Since when is 'promotion' considered a 'production cost' in a non-commercial venture?
In the end. Mr. Peters has no one to blame but himself; and all his social media comments and his Axanar Expenses report have given everything CBS needs to prove their case, and prove damages by Mr. peters using their Star Trek IP for his own personal monetary gain.
I get what you're saying, but purely as playing Devil's Advocate, I can see how those salaries could be considered as production costs rather than profit... I understand that may not legally be the case, but I can very easily see how that may be the kind of defence they try and swing.
With regards conventions, that's potentially even easier to defend... I know an actress who attends conventions in the UK, and I know that her train fair and hotel costs are reimbursed to her by the convention. I've seen comments on social media from fans in America asking if she will attend American conventions, to which she has always replied that it's not as simple as if she personally wants to go somewhere (or she'd likely attend them all) but a matter of if the convention extends the invitation and flies her out. If that is anywhere near a standard practice, then Axanar Productions likely got to those conventions for free, under hospitality of the convention itself... I certainly wouldn't expect the be paying admission fees to an event they have been invited as guests to appear at...
Having followed another kickstarter sci-fi movie production, I saw lots of updates showing the producers at meals with folks. At one point, a backer called them out as to if anything was ever going to get done and released. I actually stopped following at that point because it seemed to me that the producers were simply an easy life off the backers' dime. So I certainly don't condone the behaviour, but I can understand that taking an actor or set designer out for a meal to get them on board could be considered a business expense, as it's aimed towards that particular project. Again, I'm not saying I condone it, but I can see that point of view...
Now, Alec Peters using money to create Ares Studios as a viable studio for ongoing projects, rather than an Axanar Specific facility, as I've repeatedly said, I consider massively unethical and I hope he swings for it (legally speaking)
But. Absolutely none of that matters because that is not what CBS/Paramount are suing for. They are very clearly only suing for, in their own word 'innumerable' uses of TrekVerse IP: Characters, races, locations, technology etc. They are not going after Axanar Productions (and I read that suit as applying to others such as the writers, who are named as Does) for drawing a salary off a non-profit organisation (regardless of if they filed the paperwork or not) nor for establishing a film studio for ongoing projects. They're going after them for using Star Trek IP... If Alec Peters can prove that he was given the go ahead to make the project, he could potentially walk... I don't agree with that, and feel he should be held to account for the misuse of the funds to create Ares Studios, but that isn't the suit which has been brought against him, and I can very easily see how he could attempt to defend himself from the suit which has been brought, and it'll be up to the court to accept or reject that defence...
Can anyone tell me. WHY CBS/Paramount didn't setup a review board. To review request from fans to do thing like AXANAR, Renegades, New Voyages, Continuing Mission, ECT.
It would have save a lot of headaces on both sides. Also I don't know why CBS/Paramount doesn't have a small team of people who could Lasion on Projects Like AXANAR, New Voyages and the like. To protect the Legacy that is Star Trek.
CBS/Paramount cook it own goose. By not stepping in earlier. When AXANAR first started raising funds through crowdfunding. They could have said the this type of fund raising fan project is something we have to stop. Because they feel this type of project enters into the area of being an ind type film project.
Comments
According to an attorney posting on the trekbbs forums, failure to vigorously defend the IP is irrelevant. Only trademark can be lost due to lack of defense, IP can't.
We all have a vested interest in this issue due to its nature and we are passionate about it also but we can't break the forum rules by starting flames.
just wanted to voice my concerns over a few comments is all.
:-)
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
As an American, I *do* understand the perception some people have of arrogant(and that's putting it nicely) Americans, although it is admittedly a stereotype and not necessarily representative of Americans in general. That said, I think this has something to do with it:
I think most people would agree that US has had it easier in modern times than many countries. Even other "first world" countries such as England, France, Germany, etc, have all had pretty major devastation from war within the last century. On the other hand, the US has been pretty lucky to be, as one person put it, the only world power in history to be boarded on one side by a friendly neighbor, boarded on one side by a 'weak' neighbor, and boarded on the other 2 sides by oceans.
So again, while I do not think the stereotypical American arrogance is an accurate representation of Americans in general, it is a truism(IMO) that people who essentially inherit prosperity do not always appreciate what it took to create it, and can easily devolve into spoiled brats. See the "affluenza teen" in the news, recently, as an example of what I mean.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
With regards the second part, cats have four legs, dogs also have four legs therefore dogs are cats... I don't need to point out the flaws in that kind of 'logic'.
I have no beef with Americans as a whole. I was raised watching a lot of American TV imports, reading American novels, and so my internal dialogue, my use of the English language, is US English. Nothing would please me more than for the UK to become the 51st state, because then I'd get some Constitutional Rights... But there are some Americans who behave in the kind of way Alec Petsrs did in his insult of Tony Todd, which I find contemptible, and I make no apology for holding that view, because it comes from observation of their behaviour... If they behaved in a less entitled and more polite manner, I wouldn't have an issue with them... Simples...
Alec Peters being an arrogant douche has nothing to do with him being an American. It's because he's an arrogant douche. I'm half-American. I've spent most of my life among people of various backgrounds and ethnicities. I've even had muslim roommates in college and in the process met a lot of people from the middle east. Arrogance is a trait shared accross all countries and cultures. Stick to criticizing Alec Peters for what he does. Saying arrogance is why you hate "some Americans" is no more valid than someone saying that terrorism is why they hate some muslims.
Feeding forum flames baddie. Don't feed the trolls, mmk?
slow slow slow clap
You're missing the point, Murikan culture, or the lack there of, is not a root cause of being an arrogant prick. People from all over are quite capable of it w/o ever experiencing anything from the USA
time to crack open those history books then
Given that arrogance is a trait inherent to a person that transcends ethnicity, I find your lack of humility nor accountability to outshine the average American arrogance. Some of the most arrogant people I have met are the English, Mexicans, Canadians, Japanese, Egyptian, Israeli, Greek, human, Indonesian, American, Chinese, Kazakh, Georgian, Croatian, Algerian, Kenyan, Swedish, South African, etc, hopefully you see a pattern, but given your past comments, I am just talking to a stone.
In regards to Axanar, they are trying to turn a profit using the guise of the Star Trek brand. This suit is justified. Unfortunately, due to Peter's greed and lack of any originality, this will affect any present and future fan film venture. Very sad.
Yes, I do understand what you meant. That said, I don't think you should have said it. Not because it offends me or that that there was anything seriously "wrong" with it, but because it was a stereotype and has only needlessly provoked people and derailed the thread. Your point was that someone was being a jerk, and there was no need to mention any nationality to make that point. Having said that, if anyone was actually offended by that comment, they need to get a grip. Too many people have paper thin skin these days. It is both sad and pathetic.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Sniff sniff, smells like Godwin's law to me.
Play nice, folks.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
"bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh."
"Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness." ~Day[9]
"Your fun isn't wrong." ~LaughingTrendy
Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider
[Edit to add link]
If my posts were a breach of TOS, a PM would have been sufficient... If you felt the posts required deletion, fine, but do it in a clean and professional manner, rather than being deliberately antagonistic with snarky edits... Consider the topic dropped...
Alec Peters gave then all the proof they (CBS) need. He took a 38K salary and his wife took a salary that deffered until 2016. Some have brought up 'non-profit' and 'not-for-profit' entities right to pay their CEOs a salary; BUT 'Axanar Productions' WAS NOT STARTED as 'non-profit' or 'not for profit' by their own LLC filings. Mr. Peters has stated they had were looking into doing a 'non-profit' filing as far back as December 11, 2015, BUT NEVER DID file for 'non-profit' status. Therefore his salary = profit (and even if he tries the "I'm a member of SAG and the 38K was my appearance fee for Prelude to Axanar" - his own social media statements about his salary don't indicate that (and they are admissible as evidence); and his wife certainly isn't a member of SAG - or in any entertainment industry union that would warrant her receiving a salary.
There's also the matter of Backer money being used to pay for air fare, lodging, convention booths and admission to various Star trek and Science Fiction Conventions. What do those expenses have to do/how can they be claimed as 'production expenses' for what is claimed to be a 'non-commercial' venture? Since when is 'promotion' considered a 'production cost' in a non-commercial venture?
In the end. Mr. Peters has no one to blame but himself; and all his social media comments and his Axanar Expenses report have given everything CBS needs to prove their case, and prove damages by Mr. peters using their Star Trek IP for his own personal monetary gain.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
With regards conventions, that's potentially even easier to defend... I know an actress who attends conventions in the UK, and I know that her train fair and hotel costs are reimbursed to her by the convention. I've seen comments on social media from fans in America asking if she will attend American conventions, to which she has always replied that it's not as simple as if she personally wants to go somewhere (or she'd likely attend them all) but a matter of if the convention extends the invitation and flies her out. If that is anywhere near a standard practice, then Axanar Productions likely got to those conventions for free, under hospitality of the convention itself... I certainly wouldn't expect the be paying admission fees to an event they have been invited as guests to appear at...
Having followed another kickstarter sci-fi movie production, I saw lots of updates showing the producers at meals with folks. At one point, a backer called them out as to if anything was ever going to get done and released. I actually stopped following at that point because it seemed to me that the producers were simply an easy life off the backers' dime. So I certainly don't condone the behaviour, but I can understand that taking an actor or set designer out for a meal to get them on board could be considered a business expense, as it's aimed towards that particular project. Again, I'm not saying I condone it, but I can see that point of view...
Now, Alec Peters using money to create Ares Studios as a viable studio for ongoing projects, rather than an Axanar Specific facility, as I've repeatedly said, I consider massively unethical and I hope he swings for it (legally speaking)
But. Absolutely none of that matters because that is not what CBS/Paramount are suing for. They are very clearly only suing for, in their own word 'innumerable' uses of TrekVerse IP: Characters, races, locations, technology etc. They are not going after Axanar Productions (and I read that suit as applying to others such as the writers, who are named as Does) for drawing a salary off a non-profit organisation (regardless of if they filed the paperwork or not) nor for establishing a film studio for ongoing projects. They're going after them for using Star Trek IP... If Alec Peters can prove that he was given the go ahead to make the project, he could potentially walk... I don't agree with that, and feel he should be held to account for the misuse of the funds to create Ares Studios, but that isn't the suit which has been brought against him, and I can very easily see how he could attempt to defend himself from the suit which has been brought, and it'll be up to the court to accept or reject that defence...
It would have save a lot of headaces on both sides. Also I don't know why CBS/Paramount doesn't have a small team of people who could Lasion on Projects Like AXANAR, New Voyages and the like. To protect the Legacy that is Star Trek.
CBS/Paramount cook it own goose. By not stepping in earlier. When AXANAR first started raising funds through crowdfunding. They could have said the this type of fund raising fan project is something we have to stop. Because they feel this type of project enters into the area of being an ind type film project.