Can anyone tell me. WHY CBS/Paramount didn't setup a review board. To review request from fans to do thing like AXANAR, Renegades, New Voyages, Continuing Mission, ECT.
It would have save a lot of headaces on both sides. Also I don't know why CBS/Paramount doesn't have a small team of people who could Lasion on Projects Like AXANAR, New Voyages and the like. To protect the Legacy that is Star Trek.
CBS/Paramount cook it own goose. By not stepping in earlier. When AXANAR first started raising funds through crowdfunding. They could have said the this type of fund raising fan project is something we have to stop. Because they feel this type of project enters into the area of being an ind type film project.
Fundraising by itself is not the issue. It's what the funds raised were used for, at least that's what we suspect given the lawsuit was initiated after Peters published the expense report.
And to answer your other questions, aside from the "liason" I think CBS has all of these. Renegades and Continued are authorized fan productions. Axanar never got authorization for anything, they were fine as long as they didn't make any profit.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Can anyone tell me. WHY CBS/Paramount didn't setup a review board. To review request from fans to do thing like AXANAR, Renegades, New Voyages, Continuing Mission, ECT.
Because despite how much we love this franchise, we're a minority. In the CBS/Paramount corporate view, we're a second-string production. CBS is all about their procedurals right now, with emphasis on the NCIS and Criminal Minds franchises, while Paramount is more focused on pure action flicks like the Transformers movies.
Second-string still gets defended, because it's still a string, but it's not quite so proactive as the defense of the first-string properties.
Can anyone tell me. WHY CBS/Paramount didn't setup a review board. To review request from fans to do thing like AXANAR, Renegades, New Voyages, Continuing Mission, ECT.
It would have save a lot of headaces on both sides. Also I don't know why CBS/Paramount doesn't have a small team of people who could Lasion on Projects Like AXANAR, New Voyages and the like. To protect the Legacy that is Star Trek.
CBS/Paramount cook it own goose. By not stepping in earlier. When AXANAR first started raising funds through crowdfunding. They could have said the this type of fund raising fan project is something we have to stop. Because they feel this type of project enters into the area of being an ind type film project.
For the simple reason that they don't have to...
They likely do have a coordinating liason who fields contacts from folks who contact them about doing a fan project, who likely sends them a list of guidelines. That's certainly what happened to me when I wrote to Paramount to ask about the submissions process for sending in scripts for Deep Space Nine, and when I wrote to Pocket Books with the same question.
This is why the Axanar issue is getting clouded. According to Alec Peters (who is hardly the most reliable source, but, giving him the benefit of the doubt for a moment) they were told what they could and could not do. As I pointed out above, and as the papers which the lawsuit state, which I posted a direct link to, the suit is simply down to IP violations and the use of things from the TrekVerse, as if no permissions of any kind were ever granted...
I think you're right that CBS/Paramount have cooked their own goose here, because if Alec Peters can prove that he was given permission to use the IP (even if with guidelines) it will nullify CBS/Paramount's claim that he used those things without their permission.
Now if they had cited specific violations of their guidelines, that would probably be an easier case to prove and win. Personally, I can see Alec Peters beating the CBS/Paramount suit, but still getting stung by a class action for misuse of funds/obtaining funds by deception from Axanar's supporting donors...
And to answer your other questions, aside from the "liason" I think CBS has all of these. Renegades and Continued are authorized fan productions. Axanar never got authorization for anything, they were fine as long as they didn't make any profit.
^^^
Um, NO, they are not 'authorized fan productions' at all - there is NO SUCH THING officially. These productions have claimed contact with CBS in an unofficial capacity and have claimed a set of unofficial guidelines have been communicated to them. What they claim is the CBS has told them they probably would not face a lawsuit while they kept within said unofficial guidelines. People like you spreading the false claim that they are 'official' when they aren't probably increases the chances of a similar copyright suit down the road as this type of confusion is not something CBS wants. If you go to the sites for "Star Trek Renegades" or "Star Trek Continues" - NOWHERE willl you see them claim they are 'official fan productions' and give the lawsuit and continued actions of the Axanar group all existing fan productions are rightfully concerned CBS could decide to shut them all down and be done with it.
(Further proof these are not official is that Renegades was set to use a script penned by Melinda Snodgrass (a former TNG script writer when that show was in production.) She withdrew from Renegades because of the Axanar situation; and didn't want her name associated with something that could also end up being sued by CBS.
TLDR; There is NO SUCH THING as an 'official Star Trek fan based production'. At this point any one of the existing Star Trek fan production groups could receive a 'Cease & Desist' notification; and further legal action (aka a similar copyright violation lawsuit) if they ignore said C&D order.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
And to answer your other questions, aside from the "liason" I think CBS has all of these. Renegades and Continued are authorized fan productions. Axanar never got authorization for anything, they were fine as long as they didn't make any profit.
^^^
Um, NO, they are not 'authorized fan productions' at all - there is NO SUCH THING officially. These productions have claimed contact with CBS in an unofficial capacity and have claimed a set of unofficial guidelines have been communicated to them. What they claim is the CBS has told them they probably would not face a lawsuit while they kept within said unofficial guidelines. People like you spreading the false claim that they are 'official' when they aren't probably increases the chances of a similar copyright suit down the road as this type of confusion is not something CBS wants. If you go to the sites for "Star Trek Renegades" or "Star Trek Continues" - NOWHERE willl you see them claim they are 'official fan productions' and give the lawsuit and continued actions of the Axanar group all existing fan productions are rightfully concerned CBS could decide to shut them all down and be done with it.
(Further proof these are not official is that Renegades was set to use a script penned by Melinda Snodgrass (a former TNG script writer when that show was in production.) She withdrew from Renegades because of the Axanar situation; and didn't want her name associated with something that could also end up being sued by CBS.
TLDR; There is NO SUCH THING as an 'official Star Trek fan based production'. At this point any one of the existing Star Trek fan production groups could receive a 'Cease & Desist' notification; and further legal action (aka a similar copyright violation lawsuit) if they ignore said C&D order.
Star Trek Continues have said that they work closely with CBS to maintain a good relationship, and CBS have gone to bat for them against YouTube, but indeed, they have never claimed to be 'an official fan-based production'... (although IMHO, they deserve to be and I know there are quite a few players with a Dr McKennah on their crew )
And to answer your other questions, aside from the "liason" I think CBS has all of these. Renegades and Continued are authorized fan productions. Axanar never got authorization for anything, they were fine as long as they didn't make any profit.
^^^
Um, NO, they are not 'authorized fan productions' at all - there is NO SUCH THING officially. These productions have claimed contact with CBS in an unofficial capacity and have claimed a set of unofficial guidelines have been communicated to them. What they claim is the CBS has told them they probably would not face a lawsuit while they kept within said unofficial guidelines. People like you spreading the false claim that they are 'official' when they aren't probably increases the chances of a similar copyright suit down the road as this type of confusion is not something CBS wants. If you go to the sites for "Star Trek Renegades" or "Star Trek Continues" - NOWHERE willl you see them claim they are 'official fan productions' and give the lawsuit and continued actions of the Axanar group all existing fan productions are rightfully concerned CBS could decide to shut them all down and be done with it.
(Further proof these are not official is that Renegades was set to use a script penned by Melinda Snodgrass (a former TNG script writer when that show was in production.) She withdrew from Renegades because of the Axanar situation; and didn't want her name associated with something that could also end up being sued by CBS.
TLDR; There is NO SUCH THING as an 'official Star Trek fan based production'. At this point any one of the existing Star Trek fan production groups could receive a 'Cease & Desist' notification; and further legal action (aka a similar copyright violation lawsuit) if they ignore said C&D order.
Star Trek Continues have said that they work closely with CBS to maintain a good relationship, and CBS have gone to bat for them against YouTube, but indeed, they have never claimed to be 'an official fan-based production'... (although IMHO, they deserve to be and I know there are quite a few players with a Dr McKennah on their crew )
Again, CBS has never 'gone to bat for them vs YouTube. It's more that CBS has kept silent/not responded when Youtube's automated DMCA sniffer has flagged and blocked one or more of their productions - and the fan production it's happened to requests to get their video reinstated. Again, silence or inaction DOESN'T EQUAL blanket approval; or grant any sort of protected status. And again, you or anyone inferring or promoting that you think it does only makes CBS lawyers MORE likely to start issuing C&D orders as this type of confusion is what they see as damaging to their commercialization and Marketing of their Star Trek trademarks, etc. because that can affect their bottom line/profitability in the long run.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
And to answer your other questions, aside from the "liason" I think CBS has all of these. Renegades and Continued are authorized fan productions. Axanar never got authorization for anything, they were fine as long as they didn't make any profit.
^^^
Um, NO, they are not 'authorized fan productions' at all - there is NO SUCH THING officially. These productions have claimed contact with CBS in an unofficial capacity and have claimed a set of unofficial guidelines have been communicated to them. What they claim is the CBS has told them they probably would not face a lawsuit while they kept within said unofficial guidelines. People like you spreading the false claim that they are 'official' when they aren't probably increases the chances of a similar copyright suit down the road as this type of confusion is not something CBS wants. If you go to the sites for "Star Trek Renegades" or "Star Trek Continues" - NOWHERE willl you see them claim they are 'official fan productions' and give the lawsuit and continued actions of the Axanar group all existing fan productions are rightfully concerned CBS could decide to shut them all down and be done with it.
(Further proof these are not official is that Renegades was set to use a script penned by Melinda Snodgrass (a former TNG script writer when that show was in production.) She withdrew from Renegades because of the Axanar situation; and didn't want her name associated with something that could also end up being sued by CBS.
TLDR; There is NO SUCH THING as an 'official Star Trek fan based production'. At this point any one of the existing Star Trek fan production groups could receive a 'Cease & Desist' notification; and further legal action (aka a similar copyright violation lawsuit) if they ignore said C&D order.
Star Trek Continues have said that they work closely with CBS to maintain a good relationship, and CBS have gone to bat for them against YouTube, but indeed, they have never claimed to be 'an official fan-based production'... (although IMHO, they deserve to be and I know there are quite a few players with a Dr McKennah on their crew )
Again, CBS has never 'gone to bat for them vs YouTube. It's more that CBS has kept silent/not responded when Youtube's automated DMCA sniffer has flagged and blocked one or more of their productions - and the fan production it's happened to requests to get their video reinstated. Again, silence or inaction DOESN'T EQUAL blanket approval; or grant any sort of protected status. And again, you or anyone inferring or promoting that you think it does only makes CBS lawyers MORE likely to start issuing C&D orders as this type of confusion is what they see as damaging to their commercialization and Marketing of their Star Trek trademarks, etc. because that can affect their bottom line/profitability in the long run.
Yes, they have. A post was made by Star Trek Continues after one of their newly hosted episodes was withdrawn by YouTube for being a copyright infringement. From what I recall of the post, it was explained that CBS contacted YouTube and had the episode re-hosted. It was said, with clear respect, that STC worked within the guidelines given them by CBs, and that they had a good relationship with them and appreciated their help on the matter... I agree, it doesn't mean blanket approval at all, but it's not something I've made up just for the sake of posting something...
I find it interesting that Renegades has said 0 at all on the issue.
They're doing the smart thing and not commenting while there is ongoing litigation.
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I find it interesting that Renegades has said 0 at all on the issue.
I don't believe STC has said anything about it either, the instance of CBS going to bat for them and Vic Mignogna thanking them for their support on the matter, was last year...
Never watched much of STC, it was cool n all but didnt work for me. I kinda expected a little something from Renegades tho considering there are more parallels between Axanar and Renegades than STC and Axanar. I don't expect them to wade in supporting either side or anything but more a 'we're still on course, no lawsuits yet'
Never watched much of STC, it was cool n all but didnt work for me. I kinda expected a little something from Renegades tho considering there are more parallels between Axanar and Renegades than STC and Axanar. I don't expect them to wade in supporting either side or anything but more a 'we're still on course, no lawsuits yet'
I guess they might feel they don't need to say anything at all, and might feel that any commentary at all could be taken as taking sides, which is a double-edged sword: They won't want to alienate themselves with CBS/Paramount, but equally, the convention circuit's a pretty small one, so they likely wouldn't want to say something which may offend folks they're quite likely to run into In the Wild, which could make things awkward when folks mostly go to conventions to have a good time (or if you're really messed up in the head, to shoot Claudia Christian... >_< )
Never watched much of STC, it was cool n all but didnt work for me. I kinda expected a little something from Renegades tho considering there are more parallels between Axanar and Renegades than STC and Axanar. I don't expect them to wade in supporting either side or anything but more a 'we're still on course, no lawsuits yet'
I guess they might feel they don't need to say anything at all, and might feel that any commentary at all could be taken as taking sides, which is a double-edged sword: They won't want to alienate themselves with CBS/Paramount, but equally, the convention circuit's a pretty small one, so they likely wouldn't want to say something which may offend folks they're quite likely to run into In the Wild, which could make things awkward when folks mostly go to conventions to have a good time (or if you're really messed up in the head, to shoot Claudia Christian... >_< )
The only comment from the 'Renegades' production staff of late is that Melinda Snodgrass withdrew the script she had written for them (Here's a link to what she said on her site when she accept the 'job' to do a script): http://melindasnodgrass.com/star-trek-renegades
They have stated they have a backup script they are going to use for their concluding episode (assuming they don't get served a C&D at some point.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
^^^
Um, NO, they are not 'authorized fan productions' at all - there is NO SUCH THING officially. These productions have claimed contact with CBS in an unofficial capacity and have claimed a set of unofficial guidelines have been communicated to them. What they claim is the CBS has told them they probably would not face a lawsuit while they kept within said unofficial guidelines. People like you spreading the false claim that they are 'official' when they aren't probably increases the chances of a similar copyright suit down the road as this type of confusion is not something CBS wants. If you go to the sites for "Star Trek Renegades" or "Star Trek Continues" - NOWHERE willl you see them claim they are 'official fan productions' and give the lawsuit and continued actions of the Axanar group all existing fan productions are rightfully concerned CBS could decide to shut them all down and be done with it.
(Further proof these are not official is that Renegades was set to use a script penned by Melinda Snodgrass (a former TNG script writer when that show was in production.) She withdrew from Renegades because of the Axanar situation; and didn't want her name associated with something that could also end up being sued by CBS.
TLDR; There is NO SUCH THING as an 'official Star Trek fan based production'. At this point any one of the existing Star Trek fan production groups could receive a 'Cease & Desist' notification; and further legal action (aka a similar copyright violation lawsuit) if they ignore said C&D order.
I never even once used the term "official fan production". If you go batshit crazy on someone at least don't make up the term you are scolding them for.
When they had CBS contact and were issued guidelines within they are allowed to operate then they are allowed to operate within these guidelines which makes their production authorized. If the guideline is "don't make profit" they are authorized to do whatever they want as long as they don't violate this principle, which Axanar did.
So there has to be a contact with the IP holder talking to those people. Wether or not this is official or inofficial we don't know.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Never watched much of STC, it was cool n all but didnt work for me. I kinda expected a little something from Renegades tho considering there are more parallels between Axanar and Renegades than STC and Axanar. I don't expect them to wade in supporting either side or anything but more a 'we're still on course, no lawsuits yet'
I guess they might feel they don't need to say anything at all, and might feel that any commentary at all could be taken as taking sides, which is a double-edged sword: They won't want to alienate themselves with CBS/Paramount, but equally, the convention circuit's a pretty small one, so they likely wouldn't want to say something which may offend folks they're quite likely to run into In the Wild, which could make things awkward when folks mostly go to conventions to have a good time (or if you're really messed up in the head, to shoot Claudia Christian... >_< )
The only comment from the 'Renegades' production staff of late is that Melinda Snodgrass withdrew the script she had written for them (Here's a link to what she said on her site when she accept the 'job' to do a script): http://melindasnodgrass.com/star-trek-renegades
They have stated they have a backup script they are going to use for their concluding episode (assuming they don't get served a C&D at some point.)
Thanks for sharing, her thoughts rather mirror my own that Beyond and the new series are factors, and that CBS/Paramount's tollerance of other projects seriously weakens their case against Axanar... As I said upthread, I can see Alec Peters potentially beating this suit for that reason. CBS/Paramount may have 'the letter of the law' on their side, but not the spirit of it, and as Ms Snodgrass noted, their 'hands are dirty'...
Never watched much of STC, it was cool n all but didnt work for me. I kinda expected a little something from Renegades tho considering there are more parallels between Axanar and Renegades than STC and Axanar. I don't expect them to wade in supporting either side or anything but more a 'we're still on course, no lawsuits yet'
I guess they might feel they don't need to say anything at all, and might feel that any commentary at all could be taken as taking sides, which is a double-edged sword: They won't want to alienate themselves with CBS/Paramount, but equally, the convention circuit's a pretty small one, so they likely wouldn't want to say something which may offend folks they're quite likely to run into In the Wild, which could make things awkward when folks mostly go to conventions to have a good time (or if you're really messed up in the head, to shoot Claudia Christian... >_< )
The only comment from the 'Renegades' production staff of late is that Melinda Snodgrass withdrew the script she had written for them (Here's a link to what she said on her site when she accept the 'job' to do a script): http://melindasnodgrass.com/star-trek-renegades
They have stated they have a backup script they are going to use for their concluding episode (assuming they don't get served a C&D at some point.)
Thanks for sharing, her thoughts rather mirror my own that Beyond and the new series are factors, and that CBS/Paramount's tollerance of other projects seriously weakens their case against Axanar... As I said upthread, I can see Alec Peters potentially beating this suit for that reason. CBS/Paramount may have 'the letter of the law' on their side, but not the spirit of it, and as Ms Snodgrass noted, their 'hands are dirty'...
Be sure you know what you are going on about, since you seem to speak for Melinda Snodgrass from beyond the grave?
The Spirit of the law is like an opinion and the letter of the law is a fact. Since court cases are always decided by facts and not hearsay, that would be hard to prove Alec can win his case.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
melinda isn't in the grave yet. . . So where this come from? her twitter is still very much active and I can't find anything to back up your claim about someone speaking for her from beyond the grave. . .
Never watched much of STC, it was cool n all but didnt work for me. I kinda expected a little something from Renegades tho considering there are more parallels between Axanar and Renegades than STC and Axanar. I don't expect them to wade in supporting either side or anything but more a 'we're still on course, no lawsuits yet'
I guess they might feel they don't need to say anything at all, and might feel that any commentary at all could be taken as taking sides, which is a double-edged sword: They won't want to alienate themselves with CBS/Paramount, but equally, the convention circuit's a pretty small one, so they likely wouldn't want to say something which may offend folks they're quite likely to run into In the Wild, which could make things awkward when folks mostly go to conventions to have a good time (or if you're really messed up in the head, to shoot Claudia Christian... >_< )
The only comment from the 'Renegades' production staff of late is that Melinda Snodgrass withdrew the script she had written for them (Here's a link to what she said on her site when she accept the 'job' to do a script): http://melindasnodgrass.com/star-trek-renegades
They have stated they have a backup script they are going to use for their concluding episode (assuming they don't get served a C&D at some point.)
Thanks for sharing, her thoughts rather mirror my own that Beyond and the new series are factors, and that CBS/Paramount's tollerance of other projects seriously weakens their case against Axanar... As I said upthread, I can see Alec Peters potentially beating this suit for that reason. CBS/Paramount may have 'the letter of the law' on their side, but not the spirit of it, and as Ms Snodgrass noted, their 'hands are dirty'...
that's not really what she said..... she didn't say anything that even sounded like she thought Peters has a prayer of winning. What she did say is that she was concerned that the lawyers would decide that all of them had to go. Thus she was going to distance herself from the project until the case is resolved.
Never watched much of STC, it was cool n all but didnt work for me. I kinda expected a little something from Renegades tho considering there are more parallels between Axanar and Renegades than STC and Axanar. I don't expect them to wade in supporting either side or anything but more a 'we're still on course, no lawsuits yet'
I guess they might feel they don't need to say anything at all, and might feel that any commentary at all could be taken as taking sides, which is a double-edged sword: They won't want to alienate themselves with CBS/Paramount, but equally, the convention circuit's a pretty small one, so they likely wouldn't want to say something which may offend folks they're quite likely to run into In the Wild, which could make things awkward when folks mostly go to conventions to have a good time (or if you're really messed up in the head, to shoot Claudia Christian... >_< )
The only comment from the 'Renegades' production staff of late is that Melinda Snodgrass withdrew the script she had written for them (Here's a link to what she said on her site when she accept the 'job' to do a script): http://melindasnodgrass.com/star-trek-renegades
They have stated they have a backup script they are going to use for their concluding episode (assuming they don't get served a C&D at some point.)
Thanks for sharing, her thoughts rather mirror my own that Beyond and the new series are factors, and that CBS/Paramount's tollerance of other projects seriously weakens their case against Axanar... As I said upthread, I can see Alec Peters potentially beating this suit for that reason. CBS/Paramount may have 'the letter of the law' on their side, but not the spirit of it, and as Ms Snodgrass noted, their 'hands are dirty'...
Be sure you know what you are going on about, since you seem to speak for Melinda Snodgrass from beyond the grave?
The Spirit of the law is like an opinion and the letter of the law is a fact. Since court cases are always decided by facts and not hearsay, that would be hard to prove Alec can win his case.
Are you asking a question? I think you may be the one who needs to be sure what they're going on about...
Here's a couple of facts for you. CBS/Paramount have permitted Star Trek fan productions (such as Continues and Renegades) without suing them. In the case of Continues, they went to bat for them against YouTube and got a removed episode re-hosted.
That is going to impact CBS/Paramount's case, because Alec Peters is going to be able to cite instances where CBS/Paramount did not sue. He is going to be able to prove that there were instances when CBS/Paramount did not care about 'innumerable uses' of Star Trek IP, which is solely what CBS/Paramount's lawsuit focuses on. That is going to massively weaken CBS/Paramount's position, and a judge will take that in consideration. It won't just be a case of "You ripped off their IP, pay them..." but one of "You didn't care then, why do you care now?" As I said, Mr Peters has a chance of beating this, and due to their historic tolerances, CBS/Paramount have, what Ms Snodgrass called 'dirty hands'.
Never watched much of STC, it was cool n all but didnt work for me. I kinda expected a little something from Renegades tho considering there are more parallels between Axanar and Renegades than STC and Axanar. I don't expect them to wade in supporting either side or anything but more a 'we're still on course, no lawsuits yet'
I guess they might feel they don't need to say anything at all, and might feel that any commentary at all could be taken as taking sides, which is a double-edged sword: They won't want to alienate themselves with CBS/Paramount, but equally, the convention circuit's a pretty small one, so they likely wouldn't want to say something which may offend folks they're quite likely to run into In the Wild, which could make things awkward when folks mostly go to conventions to have a good time (or if you're really messed up in the head, to shoot Claudia Christian... >_< )
The only comment from the 'Renegades' production staff of late is that Melinda Snodgrass withdrew the script she had written for them (Here's a link to what she said on her site when she accept the 'job' to do a script): http://melindasnodgrass.com/star-trek-renegades
They have stated they have a backup script they are going to use for their concluding episode (assuming they don't get served a C&D at some point.)
Thanks for sharing, her thoughts rather mirror my own that Beyond and the new series are factors, and that CBS/Paramount's tollerance of other projects seriously weakens their case against Axanar... As I said upthread, I can see Alec Peters potentially beating this suit for that reason. CBS/Paramount may have 'the letter of the law' on their side, but not the spirit of it, and as Ms Snodgrass noted, their 'hands are dirty'...
that's not really what she said..... she didn't say anything that even sounded like she thought Peters has a prayer of winning. What she did say is that she was concerned that the lawyers would decide that all of them had to go. Thus she was going to distance herself from the project until the case is resolved.
I never said that she said that at all, please don't start strawmanning :-\ I said that I think Alec Peters has a chance of winning. If you re-read my post, you'll see that I said her thoughts mirror my own that Beyond and the new series are factors. She also said:
As it is they have an "unclean hands" issue because they allowed the fan productions to go forward for so many years without reacting. Now that they are taking notice they will have to take notice across the board -- no exceptions. That's my best prediction based on training and education.
That is a direct copy of her words. What I am saying, is that this 'unclean hands' issue -- because they have allowed fan productions to go forward without reacting -- is going to affect their case. As I said in my immediately preceding post... The lawsuit focusses on use of Star Trek IP (not profits made, but the use of Star Trek IP) There are historical cases of where they have tolerated and even supported fan productions. The challenge they will face in court is not solely going to be the simple matter of proving that Axanar uses Star Trek IP, but they are going to have to prove that it was indeed i) unauthorised, and ii) explain why they care now, and thus iii) why should the judge care that they care now and rule in their favor...
I never said that she said that at all, please don't start strawmanning :-\ I said that I think Alec Peters has a chance of winning. If you re-read my post, you'll see that I said her thoughts mirror my own that Beyond and the new series are factors, and that CBS/Paramount's tolerance of other projects seriously weakens their case against Axanar... She also said:
As it is they have an "unclean hands" issue because they allowed the fan productions to go forward for so many years without reacting. Now that they are taking notice they will have to take notice across the board -- no exceptions. That's my best prediction based on training and education.
That is a direct copy of her words. What I am saying, is that this 'unclean hands' issue -- because they have allowed fan productions to go forward without reacting -- is going to affect their case. As I said in my immediately preceding post... The lawsuit focusses on use of Star Trek IP (not profits made, but the use of Star Trek IP) There are historical cases of where they have tolerated and even supported fan productions. The challenge they will face in court is not solely going to be the simple matter of proving that Axanar uses Star Trek IP, but they are going to have to prove that it was indeed i) unauthorised, and ii) explain why they care now, and thus iii) why should the judge care that they care now and rule in their favor...
you see that is detail that you should of included first to keep me from thinking you are using specific words to advance something unfounded becuase the media love to pick things apart to suit a purpose and i see it all the time. having read what is in the quote anyway, it is clear its just another unfounded opinion as its full of uncertainty and conditionals in what Melinda wrote. that isnt what you would call something solid that alec can win, she isnt sure one way or the other.
as for what else you wrote, its a ring-a-round (look back on all the previous pages).
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I never said that she said that at all, please don't start strawmanning :-\ I said that I think Alec Peters has a chance of winning. If you re-read my post, you'll see that I said her thoughts mirror my own that Beyond and the new series are factors, and that CBS/Paramount's tolerance of other projects seriously weakens their case against Axanar... She also said:
As it is they have an "unclean hands" issue because they allowed the fan productions to go forward for so many years without reacting. Now that they are taking notice they will have to take notice across the board -- no exceptions. That's my best prediction based on training and education.
That is a direct copy of her words. What I am saying, is that this 'unclean hands' issue -- because they have allowed fan productions to go forward without reacting -- is going to affect their case. As I said in my immediately preceding post... The lawsuit focusses on use of Star Trek IP (not profits made, but the use of Star Trek IP) There are historical cases of where they have tolerated and even supported fan productions. The challenge they will face in court is not solely going to be the simple matter of proving that Axanar uses Star Trek IP, but they are going to have to prove that it was indeed i) unauthorised, and ii) explain why they care now, and thus iii) why should the judge care that they care now and rule in their favor...
you see that is detail that you should of included first to keep me from thinking you are using specific words to advance something unfounded becuase the media love to pick things apart to suit a purpose and i see it all the time. having read what is in the quote anyway, it is clear its just another unfounded opinion as its full of uncertainty and conditionals in what Melinda wrote. that isnt what you would call something solid that alec can win, she isnt sure one way or the other.
as for what else you wrote, its a ring-a-round (look back on all the previous pages).
Something I should have included? Was my comment which you responded to, not thanking crypticarmsman for sharing the links to Ms Snodgrass' pages? It's not my fault if you hadn't followed those links and read what she wrote, and which I was commenting on... :-\ I agree, she didn't say that she thought Alec Peters could win -- I said that... I said that her thoughts about Beyond and the new series being a factor in the case, mirrored my own, and that she then commented on the 'dirty hands' issue, which is what I think, will be Alec Peters' (only)chance of beating the suit...
[Edit] Sorry, his only other chance of winning, is if he can prove that Axanar had CBS/Paramount's permission to use Star Trek IP. That, and the historical tolerances, IMHO, are his only chances of winning the suit...
Um yeah... we've exhausted all available data sources and have entered the land of endless speculation. Your clarification was simply more of the same...
Never watched much of STC, it was cool n all but didnt work for me. I kinda expected a little something from Renegades tho considering there are more parallels between Axanar and Renegades than STC and Axanar. I don't expect them to wade in supporting either side or anything but more a 'we're still on course, no lawsuits yet'
I guess they might feel they don't need to say anything at all, and might feel that any commentary at all could be taken as taking sides, which is a double-edged sword: They won't want to alienate themselves with CBS/Paramount, but equally, the convention circuit's a pretty small one, so they likely wouldn't want to say something which may offend folks they're quite likely to run into In the Wild, which could make things awkward when folks mostly go to conventions to have a good time (or if you're really messed up in the head, to shoot Claudia Christian... >_< )
The only comment from the 'Renegades' production staff of late is that Melinda Snodgrass withdrew the script she had written for them (Here's a link to what she said on her site when she accept the 'job' to do a script): http://melindasnodgrass.com/star-trek-renegades
They have stated they have a backup script they are going to use for their concluding episode (assuming they don't get served a C&D at some point.)
Thanks for sharing, her thoughts rather mirror my own that Beyond and the new series are factors, and that CBS/Paramount's tollerance of other projects seriously weakens their case against Axanar... As I said upthread, I can see Alec Peters potentially beating this suit for that reason. CBS/Paramount may have 'the letter of the law' on their side, but not the spirit of it, and as Ms Snodgrass noted, their 'hands are dirty'...
that's not really what she said..... she didn't say anything that even sounded like she thought Peters has a prayer of winning. What she did say is that she was concerned that the lawyers would decide that all of them had to go. Thus she was going to distance herself from the project until the case is resolved.
I never said that she said that at all, please don't start strawmanning :-\ I said that I think Alec Peters has a chance of winning. If you re-read my post, you'll see that I said her thoughts mirror my own that Beyond and the new series are factors. She also said:
As it is they have an "unclean hands" issue because they allowed the fan productions to go forward for so many years without reacting. Now that they are taking notice they will have to take notice across the board -- no exceptions. That's my best prediction based on training and education.
That is a direct copy of her words. What I am saying, is that this 'unclean hands' issue -- because they have allowed fan productions to go forward without reacting -- is going to affect their case. As I said in my immediately preceding post... The lawsuit focusses on use of Star Trek IP (not profits made, but the use of Star Trek IP) There are historical cases of where they have tolerated and even supported fan productions. The challenge they will face in court is not solely going to be the simple matter of proving that Axanar uses Star Trek IP, but they are going to have to prove that it was indeed i) unauthorised, and ii) explain why they care now, and thus iii) why should the judge care that they care now and rule in their favor...
Um, it's NOT going to affect the CBS/Paramount case at all. Why? CBS/Paramount AREN'T claiming or suing about Trademark infringement - NOTHING about Star Trek Trademarks are mentioned in their filing. Trademarks DO require 'vigorous defense' or they can be declared unenforceable and enter the public domain. The CBS/Paramount lawsuit filing only mentions copyright infringement (and seeks an injunction and damages); but copyright enforcement can be selective, with no prejudice (IE you can't loose a copyright due to 'non-vigorous defense'.)
Problem is - If Axanar tries to bring the trademark issue up as some sort of defense, it won't fly and copyright and trademark are different under the law. What they could do is file their own suit vs CBS/Paramount asking that the Star Trek trademarks be found unenforceable (which Axanar hasn't done); and filing and pursuing such a lawsuit would cost A LOT of money (which they do not have (believe me, if they tried to use any of the crowdfund money to file and pay for such a lawsuit, they WOULD probably be facing fraud charges as that's NOT what the money was pledged for. CBS legal is being very careful and smart as to how they are going after Axanar. Also, just because CBS/Paramount haven't vigorously defended the Star Trek trademarks (by ignoring the larger more 'professional' fan groups); such a case wouldn't be a slam dunk as Axanar would also have to show CBS/Paramount haven't been doing anything commercially/publically with the trademarks - and with two recent films (and a third being released this year from Paramount); and the continued merchandising/selling of TNG (and TOS) syndication packages; not to mention the DVD/Blu-Ray sets; the availability of Star Trek on Hulu and Netflix, etc; including development of a new series for 2017; and hell, even the 'Star Trek Online' MMO. CBS HAS been making liberal use of Star Trek trademarks. Again, not saying a case couldn't be made in this area; but Judges are loath to just strip trademarks unless all the criteria have been met. But again, it would have to be a separate suit filed by Axanar Productions against CBS/Paramount. It has zero relevance in a copyright infringement case (which is probably why CBS went that route); as it's the easiest for them to prevail on. Since Axanar has publically (via Youtube and their Axanar website and blogs) provided ALL the evidence CBS needs to prevail. The fact the heads of Axanar also won't shut up; and continually make conflicting statements, just helps CBS/Paramount more in their copyright infringement claim too.
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Fundraising by itself is not the issue. It's what the funds raised were used for, at least that's what we suspect given the lawsuit was initiated after Peters published the expense report.
And to answer your other questions, aside from the "liason" I think CBS has all of these. Renegades and Continued are authorized fan productions. Axanar never got authorization for anything, they were fine as long as they didn't make any profit.
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Second-string still gets defended, because it's still a string, but it's not quite so proactive as the defense of the first-string properties.
They likely do have a coordinating liason who fields contacts from folks who contact them about doing a fan project, who likely sends them a list of guidelines. That's certainly what happened to me when I wrote to Paramount to ask about the submissions process for sending in scripts for Deep Space Nine, and when I wrote to Pocket Books with the same question.
This is why the Axanar issue is getting clouded. According to Alec Peters (who is hardly the most reliable source, but, giving him the benefit of the doubt for a moment) they were told what they could and could not do. As I pointed out above, and as the papers which the lawsuit state, which I posted a direct link to, the suit is simply down to IP violations and the use of things from the TrekVerse, as if no permissions of any kind were ever granted...
I think you're right that CBS/Paramount have cooked their own goose here, because if Alec Peters can prove that he was given permission to use the IP (even if with guidelines) it will nullify CBS/Paramount's claim that he used those things without their permission.
Now if they had cited specific violations of their guidelines, that would probably be an easier case to prove and win. Personally, I can see Alec Peters beating the CBS/Paramount suit, but still getting stung by a class action for misuse of funds/obtaining funds by deception from Axanar's supporting donors...
Um, NO, they are not 'authorized fan productions' at all - there is NO SUCH THING officially. These productions have claimed contact with CBS in an unofficial capacity and have claimed a set of unofficial guidelines have been communicated to them. What they claim is the CBS has told them they probably would not face a lawsuit while they kept within said unofficial guidelines. People like you spreading the false claim that they are 'official' when they aren't probably increases the chances of a similar copyright suit down the road as this type of confusion is not something CBS wants. If you go to the sites for "Star Trek Renegades" or "Star Trek Continues" - NOWHERE willl you see them claim they are 'official fan productions' and give the lawsuit and continued actions of the Axanar group all existing fan productions are rightfully concerned CBS could decide to shut them all down and be done with it.
(Further proof these are not official is that Renegades was set to use a script penned by Melinda Snodgrass (a former TNG script writer when that show was in production.) She withdrew from Renegades because of the Axanar situation; and didn't want her name associated with something that could also end up being sued by CBS.
TLDR; There is NO SUCH THING as an 'official Star Trek fan based production'. At this point any one of the existing Star Trek fan production groups could receive a 'Cease & Desist' notification; and further legal action (aka a similar copyright violation lawsuit) if they ignore said C&D order.
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Again, CBS has never 'gone to bat for them vs YouTube. It's more that CBS has kept silent/not responded when Youtube's automated DMCA sniffer has flagged and blocked one or more of their productions - and the fan production it's happened to requests to get their video reinstated. Again, silence or inaction DOESN'T EQUAL blanket approval; or grant any sort of protected status. And again, you or anyone inferring or promoting that you think it does only makes CBS lawyers MORE likely to start issuing C&D orders as this type of confusion is what they see as damaging to their commercialization and Marketing of their Star Trek trademarks, etc. because that can affect their bottom line/profitability in the long run.
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[Edit to add link]
They're doing the smart thing and not commenting while there is ongoing litigation.
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The only comment from the 'Renegades' production staff of late is that Melinda Snodgrass withdrew the script she had written for them (Here's a link to what she said on her site when she accept the 'job' to do a script):
http://melindasnodgrass.com/star-trek-renegades
And the Facebook post discussing her decision to back out:
https://www.facebook.com/melinda.m.snodgrass/posts/10207542606916131
They have stated they have a backup script they are going to use for their concluding episode (assuming they don't get served a C&D at some point.)
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I never even once used the term "official fan production". If you go batshit crazy on someone at least don't make up the term you are scolding them for.
When they had CBS contact and were issued guidelines within they are allowed to operate then they are allowed to operate within these guidelines which makes their production authorized. If the guideline is "don't make profit" they are authorized to do whatever they want as long as they don't violate this principle, which Axanar did.
So there has to be a contact with the IP holder talking to those people. Wether or not this is official or inofficial we don't know.
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Be sure you know what you are going on about, since you seem to speak for Melinda Snodgrass from beyond the grave?
The Spirit of the law is like an opinion and the letter of the law is a fact. Since court cases are always decided by facts and not hearsay, that would be hard to prove Alec can win his case.
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Here's a couple of facts for you. CBS/Paramount have permitted Star Trek fan productions (such as Continues and Renegades) without suing them. In the case of Continues, they went to bat for them against YouTube and got a removed episode re-hosted.
That is going to impact CBS/Paramount's case, because Alec Peters is going to be able to cite instances where CBS/Paramount did not sue. He is going to be able to prove that there were instances when CBS/Paramount did not care about 'innumerable uses' of Star Trek IP, which is solely what CBS/Paramount's lawsuit focuses on. That is going to massively weaken CBS/Paramount's position, and a judge will take that in consideration. It won't just be a case of "You ripped off their IP, pay them..." but one of "You didn't care then, why do you care now?" As I said, Mr Peters has a chance of beating this, and due to their historic tolerances, CBS/Paramount have, what Ms Snodgrass called 'dirty hands'.
I never said that she said that at all, please don't start strawmanning :-\ I said that I think Alec Peters has a chance of winning. If you re-read my post, you'll see that I said her thoughts mirror my own that Beyond and the new series are factors. She also said:
That is a direct copy of her words. What I am saying, is that this 'unclean hands' issue -- because they have allowed fan productions to go forward without reacting -- is going to affect their case. As I said in my immediately preceding post... The lawsuit focusses on use of Star Trek IP (not profits made, but the use of Star Trek IP) There are historical cases of where they have tolerated and even supported fan productions. The challenge they will face in court is not solely going to be the simple matter of proving that Axanar uses Star Trek IP, but they are going to have to prove that it was indeed i) unauthorised, and ii) explain why they care now, and thus iii) why should the judge care that they care now and rule in their favor...
you see that is detail that you should of included first to keep me from thinking you are using specific words to advance something unfounded becuase the media love to pick things apart to suit a purpose and i see it all the time. having read what is in the quote anyway, it is clear its just another unfounded opinion as its full of uncertainty and conditionals in what Melinda wrote. that isnt what you would call something solid that alec can win, she isnt sure one way or the other.
as for what else you wrote, its a ring-a-round (look back on all the previous pages).
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
[Edit] Sorry, his only other chance of winning, is if he can prove that Axanar had CBS/Paramount's permission to use Star Trek IP. That, and the historical tolerances, IMHO, are his only chances of winning the suit...
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Um, it's NOT going to affect the CBS/Paramount case at all. Why? CBS/Paramount AREN'T claiming or suing about Trademark infringement - NOTHING about Star Trek Trademarks are mentioned in their filing. Trademarks DO require 'vigorous defense' or they can be declared unenforceable and enter the public domain. The CBS/Paramount lawsuit filing only mentions copyright infringement (and seeks an injunction and damages); but copyright enforcement can be selective, with no prejudice (IE you can't loose a copyright due to 'non-vigorous defense'.)
Problem is - If Axanar tries to bring the trademark issue up as some sort of defense, it won't fly and copyright and trademark are different under the law. What they could do is file their own suit vs CBS/Paramount asking that the Star Trek trademarks be found unenforceable (which Axanar hasn't done); and filing and pursuing such a lawsuit would cost A LOT of money (which they do not have (believe me, if they tried to use any of the crowdfund money to file and pay for such a lawsuit, they WOULD probably be facing fraud charges as that's NOT what the money was pledged for. CBS legal is being very careful and smart as to how they are going after Axanar. Also, just because CBS/Paramount haven't vigorously defended the Star Trek trademarks (by ignoring the larger more 'professional' fan groups); such a case wouldn't be a slam dunk as Axanar would also have to show CBS/Paramount haven't been doing anything commercially/publically with the trademarks - and with two recent films (and a third being released this year from Paramount); and the continued merchandising/selling of TNG (and TOS) syndication packages; not to mention the DVD/Blu-Ray sets; the availability of Star Trek on Hulu and Netflix, etc; including development of a new series for 2017; and hell, even the 'Star Trek Online' MMO. CBS HAS been making liberal use of Star Trek trademarks. Again, not saying a case couldn't be made in this area; but Judges are loath to just strip trademarks unless all the criteria have been met. But again, it would have to be a separate suit filed by Axanar Productions against CBS/Paramount. It has zero relevance in a copyright infringement case (which is probably why CBS went that route); as it's the easiest for them to prevail on. Since Axanar has publically (via Youtube and their Axanar website and blogs) provided ALL the evidence CBS needs to prevail. The fact the heads of Axanar also won't shut up; and continually make conflicting statements, just helps CBS/Paramount more in their copyright infringement claim too.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."