I resisted against it when seeing the layout, but I have bought it by turning in 640k Di-lithium for Zen, why, because I saw it outside ESD and I really love the look of it, its a brilliantly made ship, looks the business and am so happy to have it.
Crazy that I was so hesitant about it before and changed view when seeing it for the first time.
That happened to me with DR pack and ships as well, the price was and still is a bit silly, and I though the ships looked horrible, but in game, they grew on me, and now 5 of my toons fly fleet DR ships which are all brilliant, especially the Guardian and Experimental. Got the pack by spending 1.3Mil di-li and rest cash for Bday.
Felt that Carriers need to be supported as I have all C-Store carriers ( 2 hanger) and really want more input on Carriers from Cryptic, especially Pet AI which will only happen if people actually buy and use them!
Oh, and the Frigates, yes they are super cool and out perform my peregrin/scorpion hangers on the Atrox!
I resisted against it when seeing the layout, but I have bought it by turning in 640k Di-lithium for Zen, why, because I saw it outside ESD and I really love the look of it, its a brilliantly made ship, looks the business and am so happy to have it.
Crazy that I was so hesitant about it before and changed view when seeing it for the first time.
That happened to me with DR pack and ships as well, the price was and still is a bit silly, and I though the ships looked horrible, but in game, they grew on me, and now 5 of my toons fly fleet DR ships which are all brilliant, especially the Guardian and Experimental. Got the pack by spending 1.3Mil di-li and rest cash for Bday.
Felt that Carriers need to be supported as I have all C-Store carriers ( 2 hanger) and really want more input on Carriers from Cryptic, especially Pet AI which will only happen if people actually buy and use them!
Oh, and the Frigates, yes they are super cool and out perform my peregrin/scorpion hangers on the Atrox!
Yeah i am with you on this i would love it if they allowed us a voice into more than just the design of the ship, and more into what the ship is going to be doing as well. I mean hanger-pets are almost as important to the carrier as the carrier itself, and with the current state of the UI an AI of the hanger-pets puts them in a bad place (still useable just could be so much better), than seeing so many good ideas both which I have put forth personally an others have put forth to improve the state of the pets without a word from the devs is abit self-defeating. I would love if we got a dev-started thread in which we could actually talk with a dev to see what could be done in the game-engine to improve the hanger-pets (even separation pets) an get feed back going in both directions, as than it would not seem like we are talking to a cement wall an leaving good ideas to rot in threads that will not be heard.
It won by by 281 votes of 2775 total cast on the forums. While that wasn't the largest margin by any means, or even the largest turnout, it is the majority. In basically any election, a margin of greater than 10% would be considered a mandate.
.
I don't think you can really compare this to a political process. Even after an election there's (ideally) a continuing process of compromise that occurs between the parties involved such that one group doesn't have complete hold over discourse and legislation (if that occurs that tend's to be when things break down.) And subsequently you have other elections in which the dissatisfied can attempt again to push their point of view. It's an evolving thing.
There's no question of that happening here. The Jupiter gets made using a given design and that's the end of it. As such a run-off "mandate" isn't sufficient, there needs to be a popular majority for one design across all choices in order to justify the process. Otherwise the outcome is likely to be a relatively small group of empowered winning-backers being expected to overcome (in financial terms) the apathy or antithesis felt by every other voter. It's a problematic business decision, as if cryptic simply chose the design themselves as per usual they wouldn't have created well established camps of potential buyers who either wanted that design or something else (which very definitely could have existed).
It'd just be a vague question of personal preferences set against what ifs with no clear basis (ie. business as usual). That (in my view) is a much more inviting environment for a new ship to launch into than game-design-by-referendum (which I'm not expecting to show up again any time soon, but it's not something I'm looking forward to in future.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Overall, it's been a big letdown and I'd have passed on the ship if it weren't for the huge discount and single pack.
The side hangars don't do anything. I'd hoped they'd at least open up in combat (kinda like how the blast doors on the Arbiter close) but no deal. The hangar doors also aren't used by the pets, which is a shame (but somewhat understandable).
There are no customization options, which you'd expect with 8 initial designs. There are no improvements to hangar pet AI and that was much need, and a missed oppertunity. Last but not least, it'd have been a good ship to re-use the Odyssey (Aquarius) bridge. That wouldn't have cost them anything to implement and would have fitted the ship well.
For a ship with such a big release hype, I'd expected a little more than this. It feels rushed, half-finished and unless you're a carrier junkey, I'd recommend against getting it. Even at 20% off, I still feel it's overpriced.
Its not the ugliest fed ship. That honor goes to the chimera. That being said ill happily fly a chimera but I doubt ill ever fly this ship. I think the lack of an ehgineering hull is what is putting me off
Ugliest? No, but in the bottom 5 fed. Meh stats as well so I expect this one to fade into the background noise quite quickly and we can all put this strife behind us before too long.
I voted for a slightly similar design which didn't make the final round. Jupiter isn't so bad though, glad it won over some of the more awful options.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I was hoping that the Beta, Theta, or Sigma would win. In my opinion, the Jupiter is the worst looking fed ship ever. It makes the Chimera seem beautiful. The nacelles are not even similar to the ones in the concept art either, they literally just took the original Jupiter nacelles, slightly modified, and then reskined them. It's absolutely hideous!
The nacelles are not even similar to the ones in the concept art either, they literally just took the original Jupiter nacelles, slightly modified, and then reskined them.
Hey, guess what, no they didn't.
OG Jupiter had tiny little spindly nacelles, like-a so:
Whereas the new Jupiter carrier has these much larger yet still quite lean ones:
Which, true, they only barely resemble the vague shapes that were present in the Omega concept art:
..... but then again, the point of concept art is that things get changed and often for the better.
But that statement up there you made? Bold faced lie.
It's really bad taste to imply the ship artists would be that lazy, shame on you.
And as for the rest of you whinging about how "ugly" it is or "lumpy" or whatever other ludicrous disparagement you feel like tossing around? You are barely hiding your discontent at being sore over not seeing the design you personally picked win.
The nacelles are not even similar to the ones in the concept art either, they literally just took the original Jupiter nacelles, slightly modified, and then reskined them.
Hey, guess what, no they didn't.
OG Jupiter had tiny little spindly nacelles, like-a so:
Whereas the new Jupiter carrier has these much larger yet still quite lean ones:
Which, true, they only barely resemble the vague shapes that were present in the Omega concept art:
..... but then again, the point of concept art is that things get changed and often for the better.
But that statement up there you made? Bold faced lie.
It's really bad taste to imply the ship artists would be that lazy, shame on you.
And as for the rest of you whinging about how "ugly" it is or "lumpy" or whatever other ludicrous disparagement you feel like tossing around? You are barely hiding your discontent at being sore over not seeing the design you personally picked win.
I find the nacelles of them both are extremely similar, but i'll agree to disagree.
But your statement that i'm "whinging" because I am "sore" that the ones I wanted to win didn't is COMPLETELY false. I am calling it ugly because I find it ugly, I don't care whether or not the ones I wanted to win did or didn't win. I just care if I find it ugly or not. But I shouldn't be surprised, you probably find everyone who finds the Jupiter ugly, "sore".
Voted Sigma, Round Saucer (whichever that was - retro/classy), and Alpha.
The Omega/Jupiter does look pretty good in game, except for the aft section of the saucer that looks deprived, with the impulse thruster shape, placement and the saucer curvature making it seem too tame (for a carrier), and the small size of the second pair of warp nacelles underneath. The deflector would have looked better if it wasn't so defined like an eye and instead like in the concept art, a rectangular white space with deflector details inside that. Otherwise, it looks great, particularly the warp nacelle shapes and saucer otherwise.
Great model overall, and hope to see more carriers in game. I would have picked it up too had it been command seating instead of intel which would have fit a carrier like a glove, and if the console and ship traits were something different. A fleet version is still on the horizon however depending on how those pets fare, and whether we can use them on our cat carrier (Atrox) to which I still have no answer.
Because it has to be the most awful design I've seen in the game to date.
The Eclipse begs to differ.
I think the Eclipse is a great looking ship in its own exotic stealthy way, nevermind being the best Fed light (battle)cruiser to date. Screen from Mirror Invasion (mine's in the background)
Devs: Provide the option to Turn OFF full screen flashes from enemy ship explosions
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I have had my fill of saucer shaped Star Fleet ships. That was so last century. Eventually things have to change. If things were left to some on here, the US Navy would still be using four stack Destroyers.
Every one of my picks went on to the next round. Of course by who they matched up against who they may have been able to narrow down the winner.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It must have been the Vorta who voted for this design, they have admitted to having a aesthetics sense omitted from their gene pool. So cannot tell the difference between a Picasso or a 2 year old's scribble with crayons.
But in my option Cryptic have never been good at designing original Federation or Klingon ships for that matter. Romulan ships however they get 99% of those bang on.
The Jupiter looks like a deflated rugby ball with nacelles stuck on the back.
But your statement that i'm "whinging" because I am "sore" that the ones I wanted to win didn't is COMPLETELY false. I am calling it ugly because I find it ugly, I don't care whether or not the ones I wanted to win did or didn't win. I just care if I find it ugly or not. But I shouldn't be surprised, you probably find everyone who finds the Jupiter ugly, "sore".
I am finding that too many people on the forums complaining about the objective looks of the Jupiter are usually coupling their comments with how they felt a different design should have won instead. I'm calling them like I see them.
I have had my fill of saucer shaped Star Fleet ships. That was so last century.
..... how..... many ships do we have that are practically pure saucer in the game?
I mean, for the record, guys, the Jupiter's "all saucer" look comes from the fact that its Secondary Hull is shaped like an upside-down version of its Primary Hull and attached to it directly, with no neck.
So it does kinda have the appearance of being "all saucer".
Also, this is Star Trek? As far as I know, the Federation keeps designing ships with saucer-shaped Primary hulls well into the Enterprise-J's era. It's kind of a signature element here.
I have had my fill of saucer shaped Star Fleet ships. That was so last century. Eventually things have to change. If things were left to some on here, the US Navy would still be using four stack Destroyers.
Every one of my picks went on to the next round. Of course by who they matched up against who they may have been able to narrow down the winner.
There really hadn't been too many traditional saucer ships. Most are not even full circle to be a saucer design from the older design. As they became oval, chevron, and other odd shapes.
Still the Ambassador was the last traditional Federation design that came out. As the others removed some of the elements here and there.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,117Community Moderator
I voted for it. I have no intention of getting it, because I hate carriers, but I voted for it so that the Jupiter people can have their day. Just like the Typhoon people got theirs with the command cruisers.
You ask some of those Typhoon people... they still want the Typhoon itself, complete with low quality model because its the Typhoon and the Command Cruisers are not the Typhoon.
On Topic: I voted for the Alpha design myself. Felt the closer nacelles would make more sense as they weren't quite as vulnerable.
I voted for it. I have no intention of getting it, because I hate carriers, but I voted for it so that the Jupiter people can have their day. Just like the Typhoon people got theirs with the command cruisers.
You ask some of those Typhoon people... they still want the Typhoon itself, complete with low quality model because its the Typhoon and the Command Cruisers are not the Typhoon.
On Topic: I voted for the Alpha design myself. Felt the closer nacelles would make more sense as they weren't quite as vulnerable.
I still want the Typhoon, and not low quality model of it. If they took time, they can dress it up nicely with detailing. They done that with the older ships. So they can do so on this as well.
And I agree the Command cruiser don't make a Typhoon. But for now they are a decent "fill in".
I went Omega cause I thought it would look really neat.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Love the Jupiter. Still don't see how the old one looks like the new one. The vote was cast and the most popular one won. Makes me laugh people think it was rigged. End of the day, too me, it's a fantastic and versatile ship. Got 3 Sci Boff's on it and boy does it rock!
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
I think the Eclipse is a great looking ship in its own exotic stealthy way, nevermind being the best Fed light (battle)cruiser to date.
Totally fair, I understand that it's all a matter of taste. I do own the Eclipse because it's a great ship. I put the Phantom Nacelles on it and with that change, I can tolerate it's appearance. I personally don't like the look of the default Eclipse, but I know some people do which is cool.
So, I made myself a liar when I said I wouldn't get the Jupiter.. I had an influx of extra Dilithium and I bought it just because I like how it looks. After flying it around today, I like the look even more. I would have preferred more 'beefy' nacelles.. maybe with a more armored look but aside from that, I think the design of the Jupiter is fantastic.
When it comes to something like this, it's impossible to please everyone. Judging by the amount of Jupiter ships I have seen in game today though, I honestly believe that the vast majority were pleased with the look. I know it's 'launch day' so everyone is flying theirs.. but man, these things are everywhere today.
I haven't seen a ship this popular on launch day since the Command Battle Cruisers were released.
I think to most the omega is a spiritual successor to the older Jupiter model, and i can respect an see that, since it shares many of the same general curves an shapes yet more refined an smoothed like many models of the fed ships evole towards thru generations.
Love the Jupiter. Still don't see how the old one looks like the new one. The vote was cast and the most popular one won. Makes me laugh people think it was rigged. End of the day, too me, it's a fantastic and versatile ship. Got 3 Sci Boff's on it and boy does it rock!
Look from above on them both. And they follow a similar design flow. That is why the others are saying it looks like the Jupiter. And one reason why it won the vote.
True on the vote. Most of the time. When their choice loose, they complain.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I did, the Omega design was my favorite from the start. Bought the ship (on sale) today and LOVE IT!
I initially only bought it on principle, since I voted all along the process but I didn't think I'd like it as much as I do. It is very powerful, even from the start.
The Callistos are awesome too - I will be getting Elite versions of them ASAP. BTW, love how you added Scratch the Paint to them so they don't get blown up by warp core breaches, thank you!
I certainly didn't, while I don't mind 4 nacelle ships, I just don't like the nacelle design on this particular body as it makes it god awful looking IMO.
Comments
I resisted against it when seeing the layout, but I have bought it by turning in 640k Di-lithium for Zen, why, because I saw it outside ESD and I really love the look of it, its a brilliantly made ship, looks the business and am so happy to have it.
Crazy that I was so hesitant about it before and changed view when seeing it for the first time.
That happened to me with DR pack and ships as well, the price was and still is a bit silly, and I though the ships looked horrible, but in game, they grew on me, and now 5 of my toons fly fleet DR ships which are all brilliant, especially the Guardian and Experimental. Got the pack by spending 1.3Mil di-li and rest cash for Bday.
Felt that Carriers need to be supported as I have all C-Store carriers ( 2 hanger) and really want more input on Carriers from Cryptic, especially Pet AI which will only happen if people actually buy and use them!
Oh, and the Frigates, yes they are super cool and out perform my peregrin/scorpion hangers on the Atrox!
Yeah i am with you on this i would love it if they allowed us a voice into more than just the design of the ship, and more into what the ship is going to be doing as well. I mean hanger-pets are almost as important to the carrier as the carrier itself, and with the current state of the UI an AI of the hanger-pets puts them in a bad place (still useable just could be so much better), than seeing so many good ideas both which I have put forth personally an others have put forth to improve the state of the pets without a word from the devs is abit self-defeating. I would love if we got a dev-started thread in which we could actually talk with a dev to see what could be done in the game-engine to improve the hanger-pets (even separation pets) an get feed back going in both directions, as than it would not seem like we are talking to a cement wall an leaving good ideas to rot in threads that will not be heard.
I don't think you can really compare this to a political process. Even after an election there's (ideally) a continuing process of compromise that occurs between the parties involved such that one group doesn't have complete hold over discourse and legislation (if that occurs that tend's to be when things break down.) And subsequently you have other elections in which the dissatisfied can attempt again to push their point of view. It's an evolving thing.
There's no question of that happening here. The Jupiter gets made using a given design and that's the end of it. As such a run-off "mandate" isn't sufficient, there needs to be a popular majority for one design across all choices in order to justify the process. Otherwise the outcome is likely to be a relatively small group of empowered winning-backers being expected to overcome (in financial terms) the apathy or antithesis felt by every other voter. It's a problematic business decision, as if cryptic simply chose the design themselves as per usual they wouldn't have created well established camps of potential buyers who either wanted that design or something else (which very definitely could have existed).
It'd just be a vague question of personal preferences set against what ifs with no clear basis (ie. business as usual). That (in my view) is a much more inviting environment for a new ship to launch into than game-design-by-referendum (which I'm not expecting to show up again any time soon, but it's not something I'm looking forward to in future.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The side hangars don't do anything. I'd hoped they'd at least open up in combat (kinda like how the blast doors on the Arbiter close) but no deal. The hangar doors also aren't used by the pets, which is a shame (but somewhat understandable).
There are no customization options, which you'd expect with 8 initial designs. There are no improvements to hangar pet AI and that was much need, and a missed oppertunity. Last but not least, it'd have been a good ship to re-use the Odyssey (Aquarius) bridge. That wouldn't have cost them anything to implement and would have fitted the ship well.
For a ship with such a big release hype, I'd expected a little more than this. It feels rushed, half-finished and unless you're a carrier junkey, I'd recommend against getting it. Even at 20% off, I still feel it's overpriced.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Hey, guess what, no they didn't.
OG Jupiter had tiny little spindly nacelles, like-a so:
Whereas the new Jupiter carrier has these much larger yet still quite lean ones:
Which, true, they only barely resemble the vague shapes that were present in the Omega concept art:
..... but then again, the point of concept art is that things get changed and often for the better.
But that statement up there you made? Bold faced lie.
It's really bad taste to imply the ship artists would be that lazy, shame on you.
And as for the rest of you whinging about how "ugly" it is or "lumpy" or whatever other ludicrous disparagement you feel like tossing around? You are barely hiding your discontent at being sore over not seeing the design you personally picked win.
I find the nacelles of them both are extremely similar, but i'll agree to disagree.
But your statement that i'm "whinging" because I am "sore" that the ones I wanted to win didn't is COMPLETELY false. I am calling it ugly because I find it ugly, I don't care whether or not the ones I wanted to win did or didn't win. I just care if I find it ugly or not. But I shouldn't be surprised, you probably find everyone who finds the Jupiter ugly, "sore".
The Omega/Jupiter does look pretty good in game, except for the aft section of the saucer that looks deprived, with the impulse thruster shape, placement and the saucer curvature making it seem too tame (for a carrier), and the small size of the second pair of warp nacelles underneath. The deflector would have looked better if it wasn't so defined like an eye and instead like in the concept art, a rectangular white space with deflector details inside that. Otherwise, it looks great, particularly the warp nacelle shapes and saucer otherwise.
Great model overall, and hope to see more carriers in game. I would have picked it up too had it been command seating instead of intel which would have fit a carrier like a glove, and if the console and ship traits were something different. A fleet version is still on the horizon however depending on how those pets fare, and whether we can use them on our cat carrier (Atrox) to which I still have no answer.
I think the Eclipse is a great looking ship in its own exotic stealthy way, nevermind being the best Fed light (battle)cruiser to date. Screen from Mirror Invasion (mine's in the background)
Every one of my picks went on to the next round. Of course by who they matched up against who they may have been able to narrow down the winner.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It must have been the Vorta who voted for this design, they have admitted to having a aesthetics sense omitted from their gene pool. So cannot tell the difference between a Picasso or a 2 year old's scribble with crayons.
But in my option Cryptic have never been good at designing original Federation or Klingon ships for that matter. Romulan ships however they get 99% of those bang on.
The Jupiter looks like a deflated rugby ball with nacelles stuck on the back.
I am finding that too many people on the forums complaining about the objective looks of the Jupiter are usually coupling their comments with how they felt a different design should have won instead. I'm calling them like I see them.
..... how..... many ships do we have that are practically pure saucer in the game?
I mean, for the record, guys, the Jupiter's "all saucer" look comes from the fact that its Secondary Hull is shaped like an upside-down version of its Primary Hull and attached to it directly, with no neck.
So it does kinda have the appearance of being "all saucer".
Also, this is Star Trek? As far as I know, the Federation keeps designing ships with saucer-shaped Primary hulls well into the Enterprise-J's era. It's kind of a signature element here.
There really hadn't been too many traditional saucer ships. Most are not even full circle to be a saucer design from the older design. As they became oval, chevron, and other odd shapes.
Still the Ambassador was the last traditional Federation design that came out. As the others removed some of the elements here and there.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
You ask some of those Typhoon people... they still want the Typhoon itself, complete with low quality model because its the Typhoon and the Command Cruisers are not the Typhoon.
On Topic: I voted for the Alpha design myself. Felt the closer nacelles would make more sense as they weren't quite as vulnerable.
I still want the Typhoon, and not low quality model of it. If they took time, they can dress it up nicely with detailing. They done that with the older ships. So they can do so on this as well.
And I agree the Command cruiser don't make a Typhoon. But for now they are a decent "fill in".
I went Omega cause I thought it would look really neat.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
And this has to be the most petty childish reason to start a thread ever. Congrats.
Old Dreadnaught:
New Carrier:
Totally fair, I understand that it's all a matter of taste. I do own the Eclipse because it's a great ship. I put the Phantom Nacelles on it and with that change, I can tolerate it's appearance. I personally don't like the look of the default Eclipse, but I know some people do which is cool.
So, I made myself a liar when I said I wouldn't get the Jupiter.. I had an influx of extra Dilithium and I bought it just because I like how it looks. After flying it around today, I like the look even more. I would have preferred more 'beefy' nacelles.. maybe with a more armored look but aside from that, I think the design of the Jupiter is fantastic.
When it comes to something like this, it's impossible to please everyone. Judging by the amount of Jupiter ships I have seen in game today though, I honestly believe that the vast majority were pleased with the look. I know it's 'launch day' so everyone is flying theirs.. but man, these things are everywhere today.
I haven't seen a ship this popular on launch day since the Command Battle Cruisers were released.
Look from above on them both. And they follow a similar design flow. That is why the others are saying it looks like the Jupiter. And one reason why it won the vote.
True on the vote. Most of the time. When their choice loose, they complain.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
My character Tsin'xing
I initially only bought it on principle, since I voted all along the process but I didn't think I'd like it as much as I do. It is very powerful, even from the start.
The Callistos are awesome too - I will be getting Elite versions of them ASAP. BTW, love how you added Scratch the Paint to them so they don't get blown up by warp core breaches, thank you!
"The higher the fewer."
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
The new one doesn't have the old one's... girth.