I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I voted for it, although back then it was called the Omega;)
Now I'm just debating what to call it - perhaps the ATROX 2s
I agree with the sentiment of your signature picture 100% Sir.
In so far as what I voted for, My votes for the Jupiter design, ALL OF THEM, were the exact polar opposite of what the majority voted for. So it didn't go in the exact design direction that I would have preferred. C'est la vie
Having pointed that out tho, The ship's designer/;Dev, still did a good job with what they were given to work with, at least in my opinion.
LATELY, I've been VERY impressed with the starship designs we've gotten, with perhaps the exception of the Fed command ships, (I've never been able to warm up to those).
I've love the Pathfinder, The Andromeda, and the Prometheus refit. Who'm ever was responsible for those designs, did a FANTASTIC job! I think It was Tomas the Kat, if I'm not mistaken.
More people than who voted for the others obviously. It was the only one that really looked like a carrier.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The overhead look of the ship shares similarities with the Omega design that became the new Jupiter carrier.
Old Dreadnaught:
New Carrier:
The new one doesn't have the old one's... girth.
The thing I miss a bit from the original Jupiter design was the underside. It was an unusual high saucer - or very long engineering/deflector section. But that feature was never in the concept art of any of the Carriers, so I am not surprised it's missing. Just something I would like to see executed well (aka not old Jupiter ).
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I hope the old one sticks around. The new one looks like an actual refit of the old one. Strip off the lower hull and mirror the top hull and move the pylons further to the sides.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Ship looks fine to me... Why, the outside, at least. This is probably the worst possible ship I have ever bought. Yes, that's all on me, for not looking at its stats closer, upfront; but yesterday I decided to not even train it up: setting up the powertray and stations for it alone feels like too much hassle for this piece of fei-oo. Kudos on those who can make it work, but I can't.
More people than who voted for the others obviously. It was the only one that really looked like a carrier.
Which to me is the lazy part of the design. It's very conventionally a "space carrier" (though pretty much only in the sense that it's got a single hull which is longer than it is wide, comparing the Jupiter to, say, this...
...you really don't see where any specific resemblance lies :P) but in being that conventional space carrier you really loose the sense that it is a Starfleet Vessel (which have always been rather unconventional space ships ever since the original oddly arranged dish and rocket booster combo).
Change the paint scheme and it could easily be an alien of the week ship. It only follows the general principles of "ships in the star trek universe" (deflector, nacelles, hull done) with perhaps only the balance of probability saying this thing is for Starfleet, given the less common nacelles-on-plyons arrangement (which isn't exclusively FED, it's just more FED than KDF or ROM).
What I was personally hoping for from a FED carrier was a design that married recognizably Starfleet designs (ex. a dish) with carrier functions (and we had several examples of how that could have worked out). As it is I think we got the minimum of the exercise. Yes, it works, but it's a bit bland (across the sci-fi design spectrum).
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Don't know what to think about it. I voted epsilon as I remember. This is a big saucer. Since the saucer is so big and stretched, it could be a blown up hull. So it is saucer and hull in one. Where do we put the nacelles? At the back, but there is no hull, so we let them sprout out of the back of the hull/saucer.
We have four nacelles. Two big ones and two smaller ones. Why is it the difference in size. Do they have the same power? If so, why are they different in size? Perhaps the big ones are the main propulsion and the small ones are for support. The small ones are there to boost the performance of the big ones (?). That is a design concept you see when an older design is upgraded. However this is a new design.
One of my Fleet mates with whom I play regularly could not wait to purchase this ship. We did a few STFs last night and the ship, along with its pets, did well. Fed players finally got those frigate pets they've wanted since the vo'Quv came out.
But MiGawd! this thing is yooglee with a captial U.
From certain angles, it appears almost organic. My friend began maneuvering for a better shot at one of the Fleet Alert mobs and the following almost immediately began running through my head. It worked best if I imagined the speaker was a BBC presenter on one of their numerous nature shows.
"The male begins a complex mating dance ritual which is intended to show off his fitness as a mate to any watching female in range. So far, none of them appear to be interested. Undeterred by the lack of response, the male does the ritualistic moves to completion. After a short respite, the male begins the dance anew in hopes of attracting a mate. With no better luck than before. Some males have been recorded repeating this dance for hours on end without let up until they finally collapse, their energy spent.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Which to me is the lazy part of the design. It's very conventionally a "space carrier" (though pretty much only in the sense that it's got a single hull which is longer than it is wide, comparing the Jupiter to, say, this...
...you really don't see where any specific resemblance lies :P) but in being that conventional space carrier you really loose the sense that it is a Starfleet Vessel (which have always been rather unconventional space ships ever since the original oddly arranged dish and rocket booster combo).
(...)
I agree, but also a large portion, maybe even the majority, of people really want to get rid of the more unique designs and like to see Starfleet ships 'sci-fi standardized' because BSG and Star Wars had those designs as well. Having a long "flight deck" really doesn't make any sense for a shuttle carrier, the craft don't have to "accelerate" or be "catapulted". The "Delta" design which lost in a landslide had the most sensible layout - a saucer with lots of volume. I would have liked that design, but nah we are back to "grey bricks in space" because "the US NAVY LOOKZ LIKE THAT ZOMG SO KEWL!"
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
You know how when you've bought the whole Pathfinder set and can customize it between Pathfinder, Intrepid, etc...well, you CAN mix and match the Pathfinder hull, but it looks ridiculous, because of the levels. I'd like to be able to use all the components of all the ships I've bought to make an entirely new design...it'll never happen, I know.
The Quad nacelles are a turn off for me, at leas in the positioning they're in, but it's way better than the original jupiter class. Either way, this entire therad is ap ointless argument. Players Love it, Players don't, and if we can't respect anyone's opinions, then the thread is a wate of time.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
I wish they had added a mission pod on the upper aft section of the primary hull (which could have served as a command center for pets) and made the saucer a little flatter. It looks weird from front and aft.
Which to me is the lazy part of the design. It's very conventionally a "space carrier" (though pretty much only in the sense that it's got a single hull which is longer than it is wide, comparing the Jupiter to, say, this...
...you really don't see where any specific resemblance lies :P) but in being that conventional space carrier you really loose the sense that it is a Starfleet Vessel (which have always been rather unconventional space ships ever since the original oddly arranged dish and rocket booster combo).
(...)
I agree, but also a large portion, maybe even the majority, of people really want to get rid of the more unique designs and like to see Starfleet ships 'sci-fi standardized' because BSG and Star Wars had those designs as well. Having a long "flight deck" really doesn't make any sense for a shuttle carrier, the craft don't have to "accelerate" or be "catapulted". The "Delta" design which lost in a landslide had the most sensible layout - a saucer with lots of volume. I would have liked that design, but nah we are back to "grey bricks in space" because "the US NAVY LOOKZ LIKE THAT ZOMG SO KEWL!"
Well I agree with most of that except the design of the decks are for deployment speed not acceleration. It's to allow for taking off and docking to be undertaken simultaneously.
I'm also the last person to try and equate anything from Starfleet with the US military in any way .
Incidentally, I agree it looks nothing like a traditional Starfleet ship, you know, the ones that look like, umm, I don't know? Like the Daedalus or Olympic (with their globe 'saucers'), Norway, Akira, and Steamrunners (with their catamaran hull), the Novas and Intrepids (with their triangular 'saucers'), NX, Constellation, Centaur, Challenger or Cheyenne (no secondary hull), Sovereign (no neck), Excelsior (bloody ugly), The Defiant (which looks as far away from Starfleet designs that it makes the Jupiter look like the Constitution).
When people talk about the design language of Starfleet ship, what they mean is the Constitution, Ambassador, and Galaxy. No others. There's no more ships that match the silhouette of those three in any way other than the superficial (maybe the Excelsior and oddly the Springfield)
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
When people talk about the design language of Starfleet ship, what they mean is the Constitution, Ambassador, and Galaxy. No others. There's no more ships that match the silhouette of those three in any way other than the superficial (maybe the Excelsior and oddly the Springfield)
They all follow along with a standard design language. Even the Defiant has a dish embedded into its upper hull which the outer-curvature of the forward hull accentuates. Sheeth the nacelles, exaggerate the main deflector in some other way than before (they all do something faintly ridiculous), and you have there a starfleet vessel. You can imagine them all coming from the same source with variation along the line of function, era, and style (because starfleet engineers need to have fun too.)
The Jupiter really doesn't have any of that. It's a star trek ship with some Starfleet-y touches in the nacelle cut-outs but touch those up a bit and slap on any Delta Quadrant ship skin and you really do have something that could fit anywhere in the universe. It's not distinctive enough because there's the starfleet ship building ethos just isn't there in sufficient quantities to definitely identify it as starfleet. It's a starfleet carrier done up like any other species would design a carrier (well, except the Romulans. To them if it ain't a bird it's not worth flying.) It's too obsessed by the form (ie. of being a largely formless, long shape with presumably excellent luggage storage capacity) and really doesn't do anything with the faction (thus bringing up the good question of why it was made faction specific. If it's going to be a generalized sci-fi carrier then why peg it as a Federation one when parity in science focused vessels is still sorely lacking with the RR and KDF? With a few nacelle tweaks the Jupiter we have now could have been developed as a joint Alliance starship [for which being indistinct wouldn't have been a problem]. It wouldn't have made much sense in canon but it would have had a beneficial impact on gameplay.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
When people talk about the design language of Starfleet ship, what they mean is the Constitution, Ambassador, and Galaxy. No others. There's no more ships that match the silhouette of those three in any way other than the superficial (maybe the Excelsior and oddly the Springfield)
They all follow along with a standard design language. Even the Defiant has a dish embedded into its upper hull which the outer-curvature of the forward hull accentuates. Sheeth the nacelles, You can imagine them all coming from the same source with variation along the line of function, era, and style (because starfleet engineers need to have fun too.)
The Jupiter really doesn't have any of that. It's a star trek ship with some Starfleet-y touches in the nacelle cut-outs but touch those up a bit and slap on any Delta Quadrant ship skin and you really do have something that could fit anywhere in the universe. It's not distinctive enough because there's the starfleet broad ship building ethos just isn't there. It's a starfleet carrier done up like any other species would design a carrier (well, except the Romulans. To them if it ain't a bird it's not worth flying.) It's too obsessed by the form (ie. of being a largely formless, long shape with presumably excellent luggage storage capacity) and really doesn't do anything with the faction.
Hardly. The Jupiter shares more in common with other designs than the Defiant does. It has a saucer like an inflated Sovereign (as well as being mirrored) and nacelles in the right place. A massive advantage over the Defiant or Steamrunner that barely have nacelles. The Defiant doesn't even have a saucer.
I don't understand what you're referring to with the 'dish' comment about the Defiant though.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Hardly. The Jupiter shares more in common with other designs than the Defiant does. It has a saucer like an inflated Sovereign (as well as being mirrored) and nacelles in the right place. A massive advantage over the Defiant or Steamrunner that barely have nacelles. The Defiant doesn't even have a saucer.
I don't understand what you're referring to with the 'dish' comment about the Defiant though.
See the raised circle on top of the defiant hull? There's the dish/saucer/what have you. It's part of the design language even if it's not an accentuated appendage. The idea for a starfleet design is there in the details, which is quite unlike anything on the Jupiter's hull (it has no more a saucer than Voth ships do.) The deflector probably helps a bit but that's still a standard component of a number of different ship designs. It's not starfleet enough to stand out as a good visual representative of the breed (in other words, it's a little bland justifying the comment: cryptic could have done better.)
Here's an exercise to make the point a bit more clear.
Give this ship a Federation paint job, sand-blast the character-building accessory detail away, and angle those rear mounted nacelle-ish outgrowths back and what do you have? A frigate/destroyer/cruiser Jupiter variant. You know what it is? One of the AotW ships from ENT.
[the side-by-side]
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Hardly. The Jupiter shares more in common with other designs than the Defiant does. It has a saucer like an inflated Sovereign (as well as being mirrored) and nacelles in the right place. A massive advantage over the Defiant or Steamrunner that barely have nacelles. The Defiant doesn't even have a saucer.
I don't understand what you're referring to with the 'dish' comment about the Defiant though.
See the raised circle on top of the defiant hull? There's the dish/saucer/what have you. It's part of the design language even if it's not an accentuated appendage. The idea for a starfleet design is there in the details, which is quite unlike anything on the Jupiter's hull (it has no more a saucer than Voth ships do.) The deflector probably helps a bit but that's still a standard component of a number of different ship designs. It's not starfleet enough to stand out as a good visual representative of the breed (in other words, it's a little bland justifying the comment: cryptic could have done better.)
Here's an exercise to make the point a bit more clear.
Give this ship a Federation paint job, sand-blast the character-building accessory detail away, and angle those rear mounted nacelle-ish outgrowths back and what do you have? A frigate/destroyer/cruiser Jupiter variant. You know what it is? One of the AotW ships from ENT.
[the side-by-side]
You can't argue that circle bit is in any way reminiscent of the saucer on any other Federation ship? What about all the ones with oval, triangle, spherical, or whatever saucers? There barely is a Starfleet design language, every part of the ships can be found else where (The T'liss could be a Federation ship, the nacelles on the Vor'Cha are Federation style). Ignoring the Jupiter's saucer, what's wrong with the pylons, nacelles, hull materials and embalms, thrusters and impulse engines etc.?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
You can't argue that circle bit is in any way reminiscent of the saucer on any other Federation ship? What about all the ones with oval, triangle, spherical, or whatever saucers? There barely is a Starfleet design language, every part of the ships can be found else where (The T'liss could be a Federation ship, the nacelles on the Vor'Cha are Federation style). Ignoring the Jupiter's saucer, what's wrong with the pylons, nacelles, hull materials and embalms, thrusters and impulse engines etc.?
Circle->Circle, it's an incredibly easy point to argue. I'm not saying it IS a saucer but it is absolutely reminiscent of a saucer. See. design language. Things can be subtly implied. That disc is almost certainly there to reinforce the fact that the Defiant is a Starfleet vessel through common visual imagry. Nothing like that (apart from nacelle color and cut outs) can be so readily identified on the Omega Jupiter model.
Thanks also for implying the point that extended nacelle on struts attached to an irregular geometric form is insufficient by itself to determine a starship's faction (you need other translated components, which your sig demonstrates rather well. Though no two ships are exactly alike you can easily see a common evolutionary theme. Components are added or removed, extruded or reduced, but there's a theme most certainly there. You can even the imagine selection pressures re-configuring the common "anatomy" of those ships to suit their roles.) :P
Remove the nacelles from the Jupiter and you have absolutely nothing at all (besides the paint scheme) linking it to the UFP. It is a bland ship, it could fit many places in the ST universe with some relatively minor tweaks (as demonstrated above). We could have had better (ie. something better suited to the FED or alternatively a multi-faction release that [with a few visual tweaks] played off of the poorly defined identity of the Jupiter to provide a valuable service to KDF/RR c-store ship selection.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Well too bad at this stage, they let the Customer base vote on the design and that is what was presented. Unless they stacked up versions against each other that would tip the outcome to what they wanted, there is nothing more to see here.
Just move along and stop speculating on what fictional people would design 400 years from now, based upon what fictional people designed 250 years from now.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Comments
but we didn't get to vote for the console or boff layout...
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I agree with the sentiment of your signature picture 100% Sir.
In so far as what I voted for, My votes for the Jupiter design, ALL OF THEM, were the exact polar opposite of what the majority voted for. So it didn't go in the exact design direction that I would have preferred. C'est la vie
Having pointed that out tho, The ship's designer/;Dev, still did a good job with what they were given to work with, at least in my opinion.
LATELY, I've been VERY impressed with the starship designs we've gotten, with perhaps the exception of the Fed command ships, (I've never been able to warm up to those).
I've love the Pathfinder, The Andromeda, and the Prometheus refit. Who'm ever was responsible for those designs, did a FANTASTIC job! I think It was Tomas the Kat, if I'm not mistaken.
He wants your names so he can have his boys pay you a visit (use Jersey accent when reading... and look out for a horse head in your bed).
CM
The real loser in this vote was the credibility of this playerbase's collective sense of taste.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The thing I miss a bit from the original Jupiter design was the underside. It was an unusual high saucer - or very long engineering/deflector section. But that feature was never in the concept art of any of the Carriers, so I am not surprised it's missing. Just something I would like to see executed well (aka not old Jupiter
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Which to me is the lazy part of the design. It's very conventionally a "space carrier" (though pretty much only in the sense that it's got a single hull which is longer than it is wide, comparing the Jupiter to, say, this...
...you really don't see where any specific resemblance lies :P) but in being that conventional space carrier you really loose the sense that it is a Starfleet Vessel (which have always been rather unconventional space ships ever since the original oddly arranged dish and rocket booster combo).
Change the paint scheme and it could easily be an alien of the week ship. It only follows the general principles of "ships in the star trek universe" (deflector, nacelles, hull done) with perhaps only the balance of probability saying this thing is for Starfleet, given the less common nacelles-on-plyons arrangement (which isn't exclusively FED, it's just more FED than KDF or ROM).
What I was personally hoping for from a FED carrier was a design that married recognizably Starfleet designs (ex. a dish) with carrier functions (and we had several examples of how that could have worked out). As it is I think we got the minimum of the exercise. Yes, it works, but it's a bit bland (across the sci-fi design spectrum).
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
We have four nacelles. Two big ones and two smaller ones. Why is it the difference in size. Do they have the same power? If so, why are they different in size? Perhaps the big ones are the main propulsion and the small ones are for support. The small ones are there to boost the performance of the big ones (?). That is a design concept you see when an older design is upgraded. However this is a new design.
More like the player base has a better sense of taste than yours.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
But MiGawd! this thing is yooglee with a captial U.
From certain angles, it appears almost organic. My friend began maneuvering for a better shot at one of the Fleet Alert mobs and the following almost immediately began running through my head. It worked best if I imagined the speaker was a BBC presenter on one of their numerous nature shows.
"The male begins a complex mating dance ritual which is intended to show off his fitness as a mate to any watching female in range. So far, none of them appear to be interested. Undeterred by the lack of response, the male does the ritualistic moves to completion. After a short respite, the male begins the dance anew in hopes of attracting a mate. With no better luck than before. Some males have been recorded repeating this dance for hours on end without let up until they finally collapse, their energy spent.
I agree, but also a large portion, maybe even the majority, of people really want to get rid of the more unique designs and like to see Starfleet ships 'sci-fi standardized' because BSG and Star Wars had those designs as well. Having a long "flight deck" really doesn't make any sense for a shuttle carrier, the craft don't have to "accelerate" or be "catapulted". The "Delta" design which lost in a landslide had the most sensible layout - a saucer with lots of volume. I would have liked that design, but nah we are back to "grey bricks in space" because "the US NAVY LOOKZ LIKE THAT ZOMG SO KEWL!"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I did. You have a problem with it, Hoss?
If so, well here is the number of TRIBBLE I give: 0.
A big 0-shaped one and a little itty-bitty one, as if it had to be forced out of a very tight spot? I count that as 2.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Do you need a laxative?
Well I agree with most of that except the design of the decks are for deployment speed not acceleration. It's to allow for taking off and docking to be undertaken simultaneously.
I'm also the last person to try and equate anything from Starfleet with the US military in any way
Incidentally, I agree it looks nothing like a traditional Starfleet ship, you know, the ones that look like, umm, I don't know? Like the Daedalus or Olympic (with their globe 'saucers'), Norway, Akira, and Steamrunners (with their catamaran hull), the Novas and Intrepids (with their triangular 'saucers'), NX, Constellation, Centaur, Challenger or Cheyenne (no secondary hull), Sovereign (no neck), Excelsior (bloody ugly), The Defiant (which looks as far away from Starfleet designs that it makes the Jupiter look like the Constitution).
When people talk about the design language of Starfleet ship, what they mean is the Constitution, Ambassador, and Galaxy. No others. There's no more ships that match the silhouette of those three in any way other than the superficial (maybe the Excelsior and oddly the Springfield)
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
They all follow along with a standard design language. Even the Defiant has a dish embedded into its upper hull which the outer-curvature of the forward hull accentuates. Sheeth the nacelles, exaggerate the main deflector in some other way than before (they all do something faintly ridiculous), and you have there a starfleet vessel. You can imagine them all coming from the same source with variation along the line of function, era, and style (because starfleet engineers need to have fun too.)
The Jupiter really doesn't have any of that. It's a star trek ship with some Starfleet-y touches in the nacelle cut-outs but touch those up a bit and slap on any Delta Quadrant ship skin and you really do have something that could fit anywhere in the universe. It's not distinctive enough because there's the starfleet ship building ethos just isn't there in sufficient quantities to definitely identify it as starfleet. It's a starfleet carrier done up like any other species would design a carrier (well, except the Romulans. To them if it ain't a bird it's not worth flying.) It's too obsessed by the form (ie. of being a largely formless, long shape with presumably excellent luggage storage capacity) and really doesn't do anything with the faction (thus bringing up the good question of why it was made faction specific. If it's going to be a generalized sci-fi carrier then why peg it as a Federation one when parity in science focused vessels is still sorely lacking with the RR and KDF? With a few nacelle tweaks the Jupiter we have now could have been developed as a joint Alliance starship [for which being indistinct wouldn't have been a problem]. It wouldn't have made much sense in canon but it would have had a beneficial impact on gameplay.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Hardly. The Jupiter shares more in common with other designs than the Defiant does. It has a saucer like an inflated Sovereign (as well as being mirrored) and nacelles in the right place. A massive advantage over the Defiant or Steamrunner that barely have nacelles. The Defiant doesn't even have a saucer.
I don't understand what you're referring to with the 'dish' comment about the Defiant though.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
See the raised circle on top of the defiant hull? There's the dish/saucer/what have you. It's part of the design language even if it's not an accentuated appendage. The idea for a starfleet design is there in the details, which is quite unlike anything on the Jupiter's hull (it has no more a saucer than Voth ships do.) The deflector probably helps a bit but that's still a standard component of a number of different ship designs. It's not starfleet enough to stand out as a good visual representative of the breed (in other words, it's a little bland justifying the comment: cryptic could have done better.)
Here's an exercise to make the point a bit more clear.
Give this ship a Federation paint job, sand-blast the character-building accessory detail away, and angle those rear mounted nacelle-ish outgrowths back and what do you have? A frigate/destroyer/cruiser Jupiter variant. You know what it is? One of the AotW ships from ENT.
[the side-by-side]
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
You can't argue that circle bit is in any way reminiscent of the saucer on any other Federation ship? What about all the ones with oval, triangle, spherical, or whatever saucers? There barely is a Starfleet design language, every part of the ships can be found else where (The T'liss could be a Federation ship, the nacelles on the Vor'Cha are Federation style). Ignoring the Jupiter's saucer, what's wrong with the pylons, nacelles, hull materials and embalms, thrusters and impulse engines etc.?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
My character Tsin'xing
Circle->Circle, it's an incredibly easy point to argue. I'm not saying it IS a saucer but it is absolutely reminiscent of a saucer. See. design language. Things can be subtly implied. That disc is almost certainly there to reinforce the fact that the Defiant is a Starfleet vessel through common visual imagry. Nothing like that (apart from nacelle color and cut outs) can be so readily identified on the Omega Jupiter model.
Thanks also for implying the point that extended nacelle on struts attached to an irregular geometric form is insufficient by itself to determine a starship's faction (you need other translated components, which your sig demonstrates rather well. Though no two ships are exactly alike you can easily see a common evolutionary theme. Components are added or removed, extruded or reduced, but there's a theme most certainly there. You can even the imagine selection pressures re-configuring the common "anatomy" of those ships to suit their roles.) :P
Remove the nacelles from the Jupiter and you have absolutely nothing at all (besides the paint scheme) linking it to the UFP. It is a bland ship, it could fit many places in the ST universe with some relatively minor tweaks (as demonstrated above). We could have had better (ie. something better suited to the FED or alternatively a multi-faction release that [with a few visual tweaks] played off of the poorly defined identity of the Jupiter to provide a valuable service to KDF/RR c-store ship selection.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Just move along and stop speculating on what fictional people would design 400 years from now, based upon what fictional people designed 250 years from now.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'