Figures. Give us something we like, then nerf it a couple weeks later. Was it that powerful? I don't see the build forums blowing up with torp builds, does anyone else? Why can't we leave well enough alone when your players say well done?
How long was kemo broken? Maybe stayed that way as long as it did because it generated revenue through key sales? This torp didn't come from a lockbox therefore it didn't generate revenue directly hence the nerf club after only two weeks.
Look, If this torp is broken then it should be fixed. But to leave something broken just to gain revenue and then do the opposite for something that doesn't just isn't right in my mind.
STO: Where men are men and the women probably are too.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
We're making a similar change to Kemocite-Laced Weaponry, where Torpedo: Spread will only trigger one Kemocite Explosion for each torpedo which hits the main target. The spread-based Kemocite Explosions will also deal increased damage compared to the Kemocite Explosion from a standard torpedo.
So multiple TS Kemocite Explosions get fixed but a damage boost? Kemocite doesn't need a damage boost. One TS3 Neutronic+Kemocite and you end up blown to pieces in PvP. I don't see where the "balance" part is happening there.
It only activates on a single target no matter what attack mode you use. There will ONLY ever be one pulse per activation. So they buffed it to compensate somewhat for this.
My question is if this will indirectly buff FAW spam boats since they don't usually cluster their targets at all but without torpedoes it's not terribly useful so it likely won't.
Just a quick heads-up here, we're making some changes to the functionality of Quantum Phase Torpedo and how it interacts with Torpedo: Spread.
As many of you are aware, a Quantum Phase Torpedo Spread currently triggers a shield drain AoE for each torpedo which hits a target. We've changed how the Quantum Phase Torpedo Spread works to only trigger off your main target for when you fired the spread. Once the change goes to Holodeck, you'll see Quantum Phase Torpedo Spread trigger one AoE, centered around the main target. This AoE will have a 4km radius and significantly improved damage compared to the standard shield drain AoE.
We're making a similar change to Kemocite-Laced Weaponry, where Torpedo: Spread will only trigger one Kemocite Explosion for each torpedo which hits the main target. The spread-based Kemocite Explosions will also deal increased damage compared to the Kemocite Explosion from a standard torpedo.
These changes are partly for balance purposes (in a target-rich environment these abilities were rather out-of-hand), and partly for performance purposes.
The functionality of these abilities with other Torpedo abilities is unchanged.
KLW and other Lockbox Boff powers should have been issued as a pack of all three levels that also allowed the Character that used them to craft additional PADDs for other Boffs on THAT Character. Just like the Mission Rewards ones.
Anything other than that just shows what a money grab this was.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I was going to say something, but I'll reserve my usual "Cryptic hates shield drains" until after I see the new torpedo numbers since @crypticrock did say it was getting a "significant" improvement. The torpedo as it was drained a massive amount of shields if you hit 5 clustered targets. Anything less than the old number is a nerf.
AOE shield drains are what drain boats needed to be competitive in today's meta. I would settle for a new lockbox pack doff that splits tachyon beam among multiple targets. Please make it so!
Each doff would increase the potency by say 20% but would also allow it to split amongst more targets. One doff would split it three times with each additional doff adding one for a grand total of five beams and a 60% increase (number is place holder) when three of said duty officers were equipped.
My TBIII drains almost 25k shields and when I finish my build will likely push 30k which is not quite useful enough for bosses but far too powerful for small targets so I need this.
Alternatively, to keep the bonus to the drain from being too powerful when attacking single targets it could scale based on how many targets are being hit with it adding 10% per target.
I'm unsure how to respond. While Kemocite definitely needed to be reigned in this, at the same time, could severely punish science ships.
I'll reserve judgement until I see numbers of course.
It will depend on how much the spreads increase the damage of the Kemocite or the Phase Torpedo. It could be that this copmensates for it in most scenarios, but will be computationally much easier on the servers and the client.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I'm unsure how to respond. While Kemocite definitely needed to be reigned in this, at the same time, could severely punish science ships.
I'll reserve judgement until I see numbers of course.
It will depend on how much the spreads increase the damage of the Kemocite or the Phase Torpedo. It could be that this copmensates for it in most scenarios, but will be computationally much easier on the servers and the client.
I hope so...
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
You also have to remember that Kemo is still slightly over-performing due to the double proc bug (procs immediately on firing and another on hit) so either the buffed numbers will be based on that or based on it's supposed to be WAI behavior.
I wonder how that will affect the klw manuals price?
Depends how they manage the damage changes. Increased damage when using spread, but affecting less targets. Could end up being a buff against all but the most densely concentrated groups of targets.
If I shoot at several targets with TS3 then that means each of the targets get multiple torps hitting it, so does only the first of these to hit on each target proc (the others being just regular quantum torps)
or
Does only the first torp to hit the first target proc, the rest being just regular quantum torps.
I only ask because this could have a big effect of how effective this torp is in situations where a grav well is not in play. Any situation where targets are spread out like those fast moving mirror frigates would loose out in a big way if you only get one proc out of say 10+ impacts over multiple targets.
If it's effectively one proc per target with increased damage then that'd be acceptable still.
Heh...I was only talking about this on doffjobs yesterday and stated it would likely get a nerf as it used a aoe system akin to Kemocite....
...sad to see I was right as I loved making the borg lose -their- shields instantly for once ('tachy beam? take my gravwell/phase quant spread, sphere swarm!), but heres hoping that the fix doesn't hammer the phase torp into the ground, nerfwise
If I shoot at several targets with TS3 then that means each of the targets get multiple torps hitting it, so does only the first of these to hit on each target proc (the others being just regular quantum torps)
or
Does only the first torp to hit the first target proc, the rest being just regular quantum torps.
I only ask because this could have a big effect of how effective this torp is in situations where a grav well is not in play. Any situation where targets are spread out like those fast moving mirror frigates would loose out in a big way if you only get one proc out of say 10+ impacts over multiple targets.
If it's effectively one proc per target with increased damage then that'd be acceptable still.
It says main target so only the ship you're targeting will get the proc and I guess the rest just do the normal torpedo damage.
I don't have high hopes for this since in order to make the change even similar to what we were doing before the new aoe damage would have to be more than what the torpedoes does in kinetic damage, and at that point you might as well just remove the kinetic damage and the aoe effect and make them only do shield damage.
Well lesson learned. Never ever laud a freebie Reward especially making it sound like the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Also as to the price of the Kemo Manuals on the Exchange, that will he determined by the 'Invisible Hand of the Pocket'. Not the Market their Pockets, as in 'maximizing'. Cryptic announces a surprise Upgrade Weekend at the very last moment and the price of Superior Tech Upgrades shoot up a good 30%. Supply can keep up with the perceived increased demand but up we go anyway. Will come down by Tuesday.
Keeping up with the last minute announcements of late, Cryptic should just announce these Events AFTER they are over. And don't preview anything that could affect Exchange prices on Tribble just surprise us.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If I shoot at several targets with TS3 then that means each of the targets get multiple torps hitting it, so does only the first of these to hit on each target proc (the others being just regular quantum torps)
or
Does only the first torp to hit the first target proc, the rest being just regular quantum torps.
I only ask because this could have a big effect of how effective this torp is in situations where a grav well is not in play. Any situation where targets are spread out like those fast moving mirror frigates would loose out in a big way if you only get one proc out of say 10+ impacts over multiple targets.
If it's effectively one proc per target with increased damage then that'd be acceptable still.
It says main target so only the ship you're targeting will get the proc and I guess the rest just do the normal torpedo damage.
I don't have high hopes for this since in order to make the change even similar to what we were doing before the new aoe damage would have to be more than what the torpedoes does in kinetic damage, and at that point you might as well just remove the kinetic damage and the aoe effect and make them only do shield damage.
I'm just hoping that is not how it works but I have little faith in them not to totally nerf the bejesus out of this thing.
They can't possibly have players enjoying something good unless it fill their pockets with gold (as kemocite has done).
A single proc per target with a bigger damage rating would be favourable. If not that then why even bother using it with spread, might as well shoot a single torp at a group then follow up with a spread of something else like emission torps or bio-photon.
If I shoot at several targets with TS3 then that means each of the targets get multiple torps hitting it, so does only the first of these to hit on each target proc (the others being just regular quantum torps)
or
Does only the first torp to hit the first target proc, the rest being just regular quantum torps.
I only ask because this could have a big effect of how effective this torp is in situations where a grav well is not in play. Any situation where targets are spread out like those fast moving mirror frigates would loose out in a big way if you only get one proc out of say 10+ impacts over multiple targets.
If it's effectively one proc per target with increased damage then that'd be acceptable still.
It says main target so only the ship you're targeting will get the proc and I guess the rest just do the normal torpedo damage.
I don't have high hopes for this since in order to make the change even similar to what we were doing before the new aoe damage would have to be more than what the torpedoes does in kinetic damage, and at that point you might as well just remove the kinetic damage and the aoe effect and make them only do shield damage.
I'm just hoping that is not how it works but I have little faith in them not to totally nerf the bejesus out of this thing.
They can't possibly have players enjoying something good unless it fill their pockets with gold (as kemocite has done).
A single proc per target with a bigger damage rating would be favourable. If not that then why even bother using it with spread, might as well shoot a single torp at a group then follow up with a spread of something else like emission torps or bio-photon.
HY and normal shot values will remain the same. It's only under TS that the drain (or in the case of kemo, damage) will be buffed to make up for the lost AOE effect.
If I shoot at several targets with TS3 then that means each of the targets get multiple torps hitting it, so does only the first of these to hit on each target proc (the others being just regular quantum torps)
or
Does only the first torp to hit the first target proc, the rest being just regular quantum torps.
I only ask because this could have a big effect of how effective this torp is in situations where a grav well is not in play. Any situation where targets are spread out like those fast moving mirror frigates would loose out in a big way if you only get one proc out of say 10+ impacts over multiple targets.
If it's effectively one proc per target with increased damage then that'd be acceptable still.
It says main target so only the ship you're targeting will get the proc and I guess the rest just do the normal torpedo damage.
I don't have high hopes for this since in order to make the change even similar to what we were doing before the new aoe damage would have to be more than what the torpedoes does in kinetic damage, and at that point you might as well just remove the kinetic damage and the aoe effect and make them only do shield damage.
I'm just hoping that is not how it works but I have little faith in them not to totally nerf the bejesus out of this thing.
They can't possibly have players enjoying something good unless it fill their pockets with gold (as kemocite has done).
A single proc per target with a bigger damage rating would be favourable. If not that then why even bother using it with spread, might as well shoot a single torp at a group then follow up with a spread of something else like emission torps or bio-photon.
HY and normal shot values will remain the same. It's only under TS that the drain (or in the case of kemo, damage) will be buffed to make up for the lost AOE effect.
It would have to be buffed to around 15,000 to equal the drain it was doing with torpedo spread 3.
Ok, I an understand reducing the damage of the AOE stacking, but its just dumb to limit the effects to 'the main target'. Loose the AOE on everything other than HY if you must, reduce the damage/effects if you must, but a spread should affect every target it spreads to.
We don't need TS to do more damage on one target, we'd use HY for that, surely that's the whole point of the two differing abilities!
This whole thing just smacks of just looking for the easiest solution without any serious thought or rational.
Oh, and posting your 'nerf announcement' in a 'Thank You Cryptic' thread isn't the best PR ever.
Ok, I an understand reducing the damage of the AOE stacking, but its just dumb to limit the effects to 'the main target'. Loose the AOE on everything other than HY if you must, reduce the damage/effects if you must, but a spread should affect every target it spreads to.
We don't need TS to do more damage on one target, we'd use HY for that, surely that's the whole point of the two differing abilities!
This whole thing just smacks of just looking for the easiest solution without any serious thought or rational.
Oh, and posting your 'nerf announcement' in a 'Thank You Cryptic' thread isn't the best PR ever.
The problem wasn't the damage I think but the lag caused by the number of AOE effects that needed to be computed every time a spread was fired-off. So their solution was to change things to a single AOE rather than multiple AOEs on spread. It's not a perfect solution but I understand the reasoning behind it.
Ok, I an understand reducing the damage of the AOE stacking, but its just dumb to limit the effects to 'the main target'. Loose the AOE on everything other than HY if you must, reduce the damage/effects if you must, but a spread should affect every target it spreads to.
We don't need TS to do more damage on one target, we'd use HY for that, surely that's the whole point of the two differing abilities!
This whole thing just smacks of just looking for the easiest solution without any serious thought or rational.
Oh, and posting your 'nerf announcement' in a 'Thank You Cryptic' thread isn't the best PR ever.
The problem wasn't the damage I think but the lag caused by the number of AOE effects that needed to be computed every time a spread was fired-off. So their solution was to change things to a single AOE rather than multiple AOEs on spread. It's not a perfect solution but I understand the reasoning behind it.
The lag can be large when multiple users shoot a spread at the same group so fair enough on that side of things. But to limit it to one single proc on the main target makes the proc useless for anything other that grouped up close range targets as it would miss anything over 4km (or whatever the distances ends up being) away.
A single large effect proc on each target hit by the torps would be ideal, it keeps the general idea there and cuts down on spam so the server hamster can live to see another day. So that would be 3 procs per spread as it shoots torps at a max of three targets.
OMG yes Yes YES! I gots a big ol' woodie just thinkin' about it!!
As STO power players go, I'm a slacker, and perpetually behind the times. I adore my Vesta T-5u, I just love it with a passion. And I have resisted upgrading to a T6 Sci Ship, mostly because I haven't seen one with a hangar bay; the Elite Scorpions "rock me like a hurricane".
I'm still running the old school Part Gens build with GW3 and TBR2, which doesn't work as well since they nerfed, (uhh, what's the name of that Trait you get from Science R&D 15? The one where Part Gens skill boosts crit and crit severity for exotic damage?). But it still works, and I use the MK XIV PEP torpedo, the one you make yourself with R&D skill. Like I said, I'm a slacker, I never got Part Gens to 400, but I do have a base of 321 which works alright, and isn't that much less effective since the nerf.
But I do know what a T6 Intel ship is capable. I also have a KDF Tac with a Fleet Qib that uses OSS and SS, and the damage can be hellacious, at least by my slacker standards.
So the thought of a T6 Vespa is just, whoooooooooo! Of course, there's no guarantee they'd make it Intel, but Pilot seems to be mostly Escorts, no? And I have no clue what Command is about...
Comments
You folks need a softer nerf bat.
Look, If this torp is broken then it should be fixed. But to leave something broken just to gain revenue and then do the opposite for something that doesn't just isn't right in my mind.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
So multiple TS Kemocite Explosions get fixed but a damage boost? Kemocite doesn't need a damage boost. One TS3 Neutronic+Kemocite and you end up blown to pieces in PvP. I don't see where the "balance" part is happening there.
My question is if this will indirectly buff FAW spam boats since they don't usually cluster their targets at all but without torpedoes it's not terribly useful so it likely won't.
Thanks for communicating these changes.
Anything other than that just shows what a money grab this was.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Each doff would increase the potency by say 20% but would also allow it to split amongst more targets. One doff would split it three times with each additional doff adding one for a grand total of five beams and a 60% increase (number is place holder) when three of said duty officers were equipped.
My TBIII drains almost 25k shields and when I finish my build will likely push 30k which is not quite useful enough for bosses but far too powerful for small targets so I need this.
Alternatively, to keep the bonus to the drain from being too powerful when attacking single targets it could scale based on how many targets are being hit with it adding 10% per target.
It will depend on how much the spreads increase the damage of the Kemocite or the Phase Torpedo. It could be that this copmensates for it in most scenarios, but will be computationally much easier on the servers and the client.
I hope so...
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Depends how they manage the damage changes. Increased damage when using spread, but affecting less targets. Could end up being a buff against all but the most densely concentrated groups of targets.
If I shoot at several targets with TS3 then that means each of the targets get multiple torps hitting it, so does only the first of these to hit on each target proc (the others being just regular quantum torps)
or
Does only the first torp to hit the first target proc, the rest being just regular quantum torps.
I only ask because this could have a big effect of how effective this torp is in situations where a grav well is not in play. Any situation where targets are spread out like those fast moving mirror frigates would loose out in a big way if you only get one proc out of say 10+ impacts over multiple targets.
If it's effectively one proc per target with increased damage then that'd be acceptable still.
...sad to see I was right as I loved making the borg lose -their- shields instantly for once ('tachy beam? take my gravwell/phase quant spread, sphere swarm!), but heres hoping that the fix doesn't hammer the phase torp into the ground, nerfwise
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It says main target so only the ship you're targeting will get the proc and I guess the rest just do the normal torpedo damage.
I don't have high hopes for this since in order to make the change even similar to what we were doing before the new aoe damage would have to be more than what the torpedoes does in kinetic damage, and at that point you might as well just remove the kinetic damage and the aoe effect and make them only do shield damage.
Also as to the price of the Kemo Manuals on the Exchange, that will he determined by the 'Invisible Hand of the Pocket'. Not the Market their Pockets, as in 'maximizing'. Cryptic announces a surprise Upgrade Weekend at the very last moment and the price of Superior Tech Upgrades shoot up a good 30%. Supply can keep up with the perceived increased demand but up we go anyway. Will come down by Tuesday.
Keeping up with the last minute announcements of late, Cryptic should just announce these Events AFTER they are over. And don't preview anything that could affect Exchange prices on Tribble just surprise us.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'm just hoping that is not how it works but I have little faith in them not to totally nerf the bejesus out of this thing.
They can't possibly have players enjoying something good unless it fill their pockets with gold (as kemocite has done).
A single proc per target with a bigger damage rating would be favourable. If not that then why even bother using it with spread, might as well shoot a single torp at a group then follow up with a spread of something else like emission torps or bio-photon.
HY and normal shot values will remain the same. It's only under TS that the drain (or in the case of kemo, damage) will be buffed to make up for the lost AOE effect.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
It would have to be buffed to around 15,000 to equal the drain it was doing with torpedo spread 3.
We don't need TS to do more damage on one target, we'd use HY for that, surely that's the whole point of the two differing abilities!
This whole thing just smacks of just looking for the easiest solution without any serious thought or rational.
Oh, and posting your 'nerf announcement' in a 'Thank You Cryptic' thread isn't the best PR ever.
The problem wasn't the damage I think but the lag caused by the number of AOE effects that needed to be computed every time a spread was fired-off. So their solution was to change things to a single AOE rather than multiple AOEs on spread. It's not a perfect solution but I understand the reasoning behind it.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
The lag can be large when multiple users shoot a spread at the same group so fair enough on that side of things. But to limit it to one single proc on the main target makes the proc useless for anything other that grouped up close range targets as it would miss anything over 4km (or whatever the distances ends up being) away.
A single large effect proc on each target hit by the torps would be ideal, it keeps the general idea there and cuts down on spam so the server hamster can live to see another day. So that would be 3 procs per spread as it shoots torps at a max of three targets.
Lol, almost 16K on a single target for me for TS3.
OMG yes Yes YES! I gots a big ol' woodie just thinkin' about it!!
As STO power players go, I'm a slacker, and perpetually behind the times. I adore my Vesta T-5u, I just love it with a passion. And I have resisted upgrading to a T6 Sci Ship, mostly because I haven't seen one with a hangar bay; the Elite Scorpions "rock me like a hurricane".
I'm still running the old school Part Gens build with GW3 and TBR2, which doesn't work as well since they nerfed, (uhh, what's the name of that Trait you get from Science R&D 15? The one where Part Gens skill boosts crit and crit severity for exotic damage?). But it still works, and I use the MK XIV PEP torpedo, the one you make yourself with R&D skill. Like I said, I'm a slacker, I never got Part Gens to 400, but I do have a base of 321 which works alright, and isn't that much less effective since the nerf.
But I do know what a T6 Intel ship is capable. I also have a KDF Tac with a Fleet Qib that uses OSS and SS, and the damage can be hellacious, at least by my slacker standards.
So the thought of a T6 Vespa is just, whoooooooooo! Of course, there's no guarantee they'd make it Intel, but Pilot seems to be mostly Escorts, no? And I have no clue what Command is about...