Yeah I just finished another advanced STF were the 4 other players in the team were hitting for 2-8K, hoping that someone would carry them through. I told one guy not to hit the small nanite generators too early in adavanced Infect space as we didn't have the collective dps for the reinforcements, he actually argued with me that he had always done the same thing in every infected. I tried to explain to him he has been doing it wrong all this time, but no doubt he was lucky enough to be in a very high dps teams before were it did not matter, and this has led him to not even understand the mechanics of the stf. Sad, but also annoying.
I Woulda shown him his dps,the other 3 and your DPS..And then explian why that stf took as long as it did and imagine how much longer if you (with cumulatively more damage than the other 4) Hadnt been in to cover them..Especially since you cant really fail ISA and those nanite spheres,without a CC ship, get damn annoying..
Your reccommendation made sence,and hitting the genreators before your team is ready is going to result in major suckage..STFs,especailly with low dps guys NEED team cooperation.
I'd have put you on ignore the second you shoved a parse in my face.
Well..If you were already on the Team chat for that map and were still ignoreing advise that would be on you.But hey to each their own.
Why should it? You'd think they'd be glad that someone is drawing attention so they can bring the pain with a minimum of molestation.
While I personally love running with tanks and I enjoy the concept enough to start building one for my alt, I have heard from some DPS players that it breaks their Reciprocity builds. If you rely on Reciprocity, you want a certain amount of aggro.
A good tank will grab up 80% of the aggro in an ISA run for example. Run with 2 tanks and you'll rarely get hit if at all. If you are just running a single copy of your tac skills because of reciprocity, it'll understandably hurt your setup if you're gunning for a DPS record in ISA. That said, almost everyone would want a tank with them in Elite queues.
I run Reciprocity too but since I rely less on my tac skills for damage for example, I am not hurt as much as other Reciprocity builds.
@pottsey5g and @darkknightucf
This is the discussion I've been wanting for a long time. A discussion with evidence and not ad hominem put downs like calling people noobs or saying they don't know anything or suggesting they should stay in Normal STFs. Thank you for being such awesome people
Ad hominem goes both ways. Players who complain cannot find proof of superiority of beams by the basis of personal experience rather than data. Players demanding they deserve to be at advance or self entitlement issues as proof by personal experience rather than data.
Had this started with data, players with opposing opinion would given you data. But hey personally for me, I treat players who do ad hominem with ad hominem. No sense putting data if the whiners/complainers cannot put data themselves.
Nor did I say it doesnt need a fix. All I am saying is that torps, cannons dont gimp you at all. Sometimes torps are even better than beams. Just need to know how to do it.
Nor would you know any of the work arounds over beams if no one posted their testing about plasmonic leech, eps, overcapping if that information wasnt spread out. Take away all that information about beams from your builds, if I would bet on it players who benefited from that information will suck using beams.
Anyone who wants to enjoy the game to the fullest, even if casual, should (and usually will) aim for as close to optimal as is possible for them--for quality of life if nothing else. Small differences have a way of adding up, leading to a final result that can either leave the player struggling through basic content or breezing through it, alleviating frustration and offering them the option to participate in harder content should they one day want to.
You can enjoy it without min/maxing. Small differences dont matter at lower end. Frustration is a players creation.
As has already been stated, the problem is that wading through all of this game's bloated mountain of unbalanced stats, abilities, and gear items to find what works well vs what sucks is a huge mess right now. Ideally, the overpowered stuff should be reduced in effectiveness and the underpowered stuff should be boosted until everything is as level as possible. That way, people can really choose what they want without having to "wade through seas of garbage to find the good stuff" or "feeling like they're taking the inferior option for the sake of individuality."
This is correct in away. However, I dont see this as unbalance. I see this as diversity. Different strengths, different weakness. Too many options.
Besides, if we have fewer options, players would be complaining about everything having the same strength and weakness, too few options.
Or in short: consoles give linear returns, not exponential returns, and the question of whether there are diminishing returns depends on what you expected.
Actually spire consoles give increasing returns.
The buff to energy damage is cat-1. The buff to crit damage is cat-2. So those buffs are multiplied together. Increasing both means that each increase is... increasing.
For example, let's look at a non-existent spire console with 50% damage bonus and 10% crith bonus. base damage of 100, 50 weapons power, no cat-3,4, or 5 bonuses, no other cat 1 or 2 bonuses, no other source of crith, and critd of 100%.
You get:
dmg = (crith)*(base)*(1+sum of cat-1's)*(1+sum of cat 2's+critd)+(1-crith)*(base)*(1+sum of cat-1's)*(1+sum of cat 2's+critd)
Which means that the first console adds 65 damage, the second 75, the third 85, the fourth 95, and the fifth 105.
That's increasing returns.
(and, yes, the numbers aren't at all realistic, I just simplified them for our purposes here. But the basic function is of the form z=cxy, with both x and y increasing and c being constant, so increasing returns are expected.)
@pottsey5g and @darkknightucf
This is the discussion I've been wanting for a long time. A discussion with evidence and not ad hominem put downs like calling people noobs or saying they don't know anything or suggesting they should stay in Normal STFs. Thank you for being such awesome people
Ad hominem goes both ways. Players who complain cannot find proof of superiority of beams by the basis of personal experience rather than data. Players demanding they deserve to be at advance or self entitlement issues as proof by personal experience rather than data.
Had this started with data, players with opposing opinion would given you data. But hey personally for me, I treat players who do ad hominem with ad hominem. No sense putting data if the whiners/complainers cannot put data themselves.
Find in any of my posts where I insult or put down anyone.
I'm pretty sure you won't be able to because that's not who I am, so your "ad hominem with ad hominem" fails...
Disagreeing with someone is not the same as attacking, trolling, etc.
I asked for evidence to your claim and @darkknightucf and @pottsey5g provided it in a respectable manner, even including a video and parse data. That's what needs to be done to have a productive conversation. Personally, I don't ever mind being wrong, but if I am, you're going to have to show me with evidence and not random claims or tails of secret knowledge with no proof.
As for this discussion, there's plenty of things that need fixing including the lost crtD in DHCs, torpedoes missing out on mods, AI bugs where threat breaks, and some science powers just plain don't work against NPCs. Who wouldn't want those fixed?
Disagreeing with someone is not the same as attacking, trolling, etc.
I asked for evidence to your claim and @darkknightucf and @pottsey5g provided it in a respectable manner, even including a video and parse data. That's what needs to be done to have a productive conversation. Personally, I don't ever mind being wrong, but if I am, you're going to have to show me with evidence and not random claims or tails of secret knowledge with no proof.
Which is the same thing as random claims and no proof of complaints and whining. No sense answering with actual data and video if players complaining have no data or scientific test to prove their claims.
You also dont see me complaining in a well research, well tested thread by Snipey re: plasma explosion. But you do see me on this thread or similar threads like these.
These types of conversations start due complaining/whining start it with ad hominem. That is why it is a double edge sword. If you want a conversation to be productive better hope the complainer be not also do random claims and tails.
My point being, players complaining should Posts first their video, data that torps, cannons suck then I will post mine to contradict that data. Absent of that, these players complaining are just trolling and also doing random claims and tails. So no point replying to them with data if they also dont actually follow that productive conversation.
As for this discussion, there's plenty of things that need fixing including the lost crtD in DHCs, torpedoes missing out on mods, AI bugs where threat breaks, and some science powers just plain don't work against NPCs. Who wouldn't want those fixed?
Never said I dont want those fix if you actually read my posts.
Conditions where a salvo HY1 can out-perform a salvo HY3 if you have low (sub 25%) critH, and variable critD. Note: A Salvo HY fires R+1, where R = Rank of the HY.
Edit: OK, so the Y-axis formatting is off. From top to bottom, it's a measurement of each firing mode where no torp crits (same as one torp crits, but has 0 critD to boost it), and then one torp crits for each firing mode at 100, 150, 200, and 250 critD. You can see that close to 200 critD, HY1 overtakes HY3.
I can do this for where two torps crit for each firing mode, but I suspect that it would favor HY1 even more. I'll do the numbers when I'm not tired.
Here's the spreadsheet used to calculate the numbers (so you can check the math and download a copy).
Which is the same thing as random claims and no proof of complaints and whining. No sense answering with actual data and video if players complaining have no data or scientific test to prove their claims.
That's where you're getting into trouble. You seem think everyone is just "complaining" and "whining" and that they don't have any valid points after that. If you treated other posters with respect, you'll probably get better results.
Conditions where a salvo HY1 can out-perform a salvo HY3 if you have low critH.
So you're saying if I have a low crtH, HY1, outperforms HY2 and HY3? If so, that's pretty interesting.
Also, what's the crtH cutoff point for that? It's not too clear on your graph.
Conditions where a salvo HY1 can out-perform a salvo HY3 if you have low critH.
So you're saying if I have a low crtH, HY1, outperforms HY2 and HY3? If so, that's pretty interesting.
Also, what's the crtH cutoff point for that? It's not too clear on your graph.
I edited my post for some clarity. It's been a very long 43hrs, and had to deal w/ M$ A LOT today concerning O365 and ActiveSync. Forgive me.
Conditions where a salvo HY1 can out-perform a salvo HY3 if you have low critH.
So you're saying if I have a low crtH, HY1, outperforms HY2 and HY3? If so, that's pretty interesting.
Also, what's the crtH cutoff point for that? It's not too clear on your graph.
I edited my post for some clarity. It's been a very long 43hrs, and had to deal w/ M$ A LOT today concerning O365 and ActiveSync. Forgive me.
That's where you're getting into trouble. You seem think everyone is just "complaining" and "whining" and that they don't have any valid points after that. If you treated other posters with respect, you'll probably get better results.
I am just rubbing some peoples egos especially those with sensitive egos who are they themselves disrespectful and trolls hiding themselves as "victims". Quite the opposite if I reply to the work of snipey in plasma explosion. I dont think I treated snipey disrespectful re plasma explosion nor got any of my attitude.
which put as with where these complainers/whiners data coming from? Like I keep on saying it is a two way street. You wont get an attitude from me if I didnt get an attitude from you. Nor if the those complaining put actual data. Look at this thread is actual nonsense including certain of posts. Most are ad hominem.
If the post is also respectful with actual facts, well researched, no problem nor would you see me in the threads or reply.
That's where you're getting into trouble. You seem think everyone is just "complaining" and "whining" and that they don't have any valid points after that. If you treated other posters with respect, you'll probably get better results.
I am just rubbing some peoples egos especially those with sensitive egos who are they themselves disrespectful and trolls hiding themselves as "victims". Quite the opposite if I reply to the work of snipey in plasma explosion. I dont think I treated snipey disrespectful re plasma explosion nor got any of my attitude.
which put as with where these complainers/whiners data coming from? Like I keep on saying it is a two way street. You wont get an attitude from me if I didnt get an attitude from you. Nor if the those complaining put actual data. Look at this thread is actual nonsense including certain of posts. Most are ad hominem.
If the post is also respectful with actual facts, well researched, no problem nor would you see me in the threads or reply.
I had to single this out as someone who loves ground / does ground more than space
You just have to enter the Dyson ground battlezone and you will realize how weak players' own ground teams are and what type of BOFF combinations and equipment they have. 90% of them lack the overall investment in making their own NPC group really good and "that" is not the fault of the game.
1. Nobody in their right mind should do Dyson ground BZ. The rewards are TRIBBLE for the time invested.
2. ->
All geared out with Rep Sets. Too bad there is no content that is worth playing that this matters.
I had to single this out as someone who loves ground / does ground more than space
You just have to enter the Dyson ground battlezone and you will realize how weak players' own ground teams are and what type of BOFF combinations and equipment they have. 90% of them lack the overall investment in making their own NPC group really good and "that" is not the fault of the game.
1. Nobody in their right mind should do Dyson ground BZ. The rewards are TRIBBLE for the time invested.
2. ->
All geared out with Rep Sets. Too bad there is no content that is worth playing that this matters.
Right, sure, cause maxing out daily dil refining in 15 minutes is a bad thing. If you really hate this game as much as you constant bitching suggests then gtfo, some of us are tired of this dumb TRIBBLE.
Woah boy. You can't cherry pick what I say in NOP PS. I love this game, and that won't change. My biggest regret was promoting the DPS power creep as back as Season 5 when people politely started to tell me to go **** myself. I should have listened because I couldn't keep up with what other people did, and didn't realize how horribly pay for advantage this game would become as a result. I have not a single space build that can do above 30K at the moment, and have no plans to unless my crazy gimmicks allow it.
Now that I've read this entire thread, I am so happy that people on here are more enlightened than they were a few years ago. I used to get yelled out of town for saying that things were broken which is where all of the "Kraust is an TRIBBLE" stuff originated.
* Kraust is really critical of certain mechanics in this game that if abused can totally break it as described in this topic. This is why Kraust speaks in the third person and enjoys ground combat, remembers a time before the DPS race where Elite STF channels were formed out of necessity and not to brag about how much better they were than others.
I had to single this out as someone who loves ground / does ground more than space
You just have to enter the Dyson ground battlezone and you will realize how weak players' own ground teams are and what type of BOFF combinations and equipment they have. 90% of them lack the overall investment in making their own NPC group really good and "that" is not the fault of the game.
1. Nobody in their right mind should do Dyson ground BZ. The rewards are TRIBBLE for the time invested.
2. ->
All geared out with Rep Sets. Too bad there is no content that is worth playing that this matters.
Right, sure, cause maxing out daily dil refining in 15 minutes is a bad thing. If you really hate this game as much as you constant bitching suggests then gtfo, some of us are tired of this dumb TRIBBLE.
Woah boy. You can't cherry pick what I say in NOP PS. I love this game, and that won't change. My biggest regret was promoting the DPS power creep as back as Season 5 when people politely started to tell me to go **** myself. I should have listened because I couldn't keep up with what other people did, and didn't realize how horribly pay for advantage this game would become as a result. I have not a single space build that can do above 30K at the moment, and have no plans to unless my crazy gimmicks allow it.
You can make a 30k ship for 1-3M EC. Here's an example. MBagel made a couple more examples at /r/stobuilds.
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
The most glaring culprit today is kemocite laced weaponry, which is enabling players to score 100k dps, which is enough dps to complete a run SOLO. Thats all well and good, and I am all for Cryptic making money by selling power, but this is way out of balance. The problem is this: When you have a player who can score that much damage, it becomes unnecessary for them join with other players who have a clue how to make a build or play the game. SO, it becomes faster and eaiser for them to join public ques where it really doesent matter what anyone else does. The 4 hapless idiots in the run with the mega 100k dps build dont even realize how terrible they are, so they think its cool for them to join public advanced ques while they can pull 800 - 2000 dps. (in a t6 ship no less) Now, when the mega kemocite/faw scimitar etc isnt around, suddenly my 20-30k (in a t5 sci without faw I might add) isnt going to be enough to pull 4 idiots through a simple ISA run, and even with 5 -thr consoles I cant open fire without the entire map focusing me down.
Its wrong of me to call these players who join advanced ques when they are not ready for them idiots, because it isnt entirely their fault. People in general are pretty dense. Cryptic has created this problem by making the rewards for normal compete rubbish, so no one has any desire to play them, and like I said, the power creep preventing them from appreciating how terrible they are.
That said, I cant even imagine how it is possible to not be able to score 1k dps, but I see it every day.
PSA: if you cant pull at least 8k dps it is impolite of you to join a public que on advanced or elite, because all you are doing is wasting other people's time, and your own.
But cryptic has created this mess, and we all know they dont have the technical acumen or creativity to clean it up, and no one will ever read this thread after it gets buried because they have effectively censored theie entire forums by masking it from google searches with this vanilla / arc garbage.
Im finished.
STO must have been your first (and if you follow through) and last MMO. Power creep is the nature of the beast for any MMO as it ages. The Devs need to give you a reason to keep playing/grinding for gear, and the only way to do that is to make better gear then the currently existing top gear in the game; or add gear that complements existing gear (thus upping DPS.)
If you can't handle that situation, stick to single player games.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I had to single this out as someone who loves ground / does ground more than space
You just have to enter the Dyson ground battlezone and you will realize how weak players' own ground teams are and what type of BOFF combinations and equipment they have. 90% of them lack the overall investment in making their own NPC group really good and "that" is not the fault of the game.
1. Nobody in their right mind should do Dyson ground BZ. The rewards are TRIBBLE for the time invested.
2. ->
All geared out with Rep Sets. Too bad there is no content that is worth playing that this matters.
Right, sure, cause maxing out daily dil refining in 15 minutes is a bad thing. If you really hate this game as much as you constant bitching suggests then gtfo, some of us are tired of this dumb TRIBBLE.
Woah boy. You can't cherry pick what I say in NOP PS. I love this game, and that won't change. My biggest regret was promoting the DPS power creep as back as Season 5 when people politely started to tell me to go **** myself. I should have listened because I couldn't keep up with what other people did, and didn't realize how horribly pay for advantage this game would become as a result. I have not a single space build that can do above 30K at the moment, and have no plans to unless my crazy gimmicks allow it.
You can make a 30k ship for 1-3M EC. Here's an example. MBagel made a couple more examples at /r/stobuilds.
This is cherry picked and requires you to have very specific traits (Biggest problem with balance right now), be a tac captain (second biggest), having the wrong spec (I speced Command/Commando for ground), ect.
Those traits require Lv 15 in crafting schools which take several months to get.
It also required a full(?) Intel AND Pilot Spec Tree.
Replication without the traits / being tac will give a very different output.
I actually run something very similar with my Olaen and do not reach 30K unless I get a very good Fleet Support. .
To summarize: If anything you have proven my initial point in that the ship build doesn't actually matter, it's the small things like Traits, Starship Masteries and Doffs that determine DPS.
This is cherry picked and requires you to have very specific traits (Biggest problem with balance right now), be a tac captain (second biggest), having the wrong spec (I speced Command/Commando for ground), ect.
Those traits require Lv 15 in crafting schools which take several months to get.
It also required a full(?) Intel AND Pilot Spec Tree.
Replication without the traits / being tac will give a very different output.
I actually run something very similar with my Olaen and do not reach 30K unless I get a very good Fleet Support. .
Yeah it does require quite a bit of effort to get those traits up. Should there be a reward though without a bit of effort in the game?
You may be right about the tac part though, though I wouldn't think that at that kind of gear, the difference would be too big vs Scis and Engs.
STO must have been your first (and if you follow through) and last MMO. Power creep is the nature of the beast for any MMO as it ages. The Devs need to give you a reason to keep playing/grinding for gear, and the only way to do that is to make better gear then the currently existing top gear in the game; or add gear that complements existing gear (thus upping DPS.)
If you can't handle that situation, stick to single player games.
Power creep is never handled the way STO handles it though. With power creep older content becomes trivial and the loot is often not desirable anymore.
With STO they increase the difficulty of older content and nerf the loot. They also don't even bother trying to balance things, which other MMOs do. For some MMOs every week's patch includes numerous balance changes. They may never achieve it (most don't) but they try. STO handles it like an asian mmo: give the players more and more power to strive for, forget about balancing it and make them want to pay for it.
STO must have been your first (and if you follow through) and last MMO. Power creep is the nature of the beast for any MMO as it ages. The Devs need to give you a reason to keep playing/grinding for gear, and the only way to do that is to make better gear then the currently existing top gear in the game; or add gear that complements existing gear (thus upping DPS.)
If you can't handle that situation, stick to single player games.
Power creep is never handled the way STO handles it though. With power creep older content becomes trivial and the loot is often not desirable anymore.
With STO they increase the difficulty of older content and nerf the loot. They also don't even bother trying to balance things, which other MMOs do. For some MMOs every week's patch includes numerous balance changes. They may never achieve it (most don't) but they try. STO handles it like an asian mmo: give the players more and more power to strive for, forget about balancing it and make them want to pay for it.
This is spot on. We rarely (if ever) see balance changes to individual abilities, or even ability remakes. This is something you would see in a typical MMO very frequently.
Singling this out maybe isn't fair, since I've seen possibly dozens of examples of similar arguments across the board here, but I'd like to add two cents.
1. Nobody in their right mind should do Dyson ground BZ. The rewards are TRIBBLE for the time invested.
I'm investing my time here for having fun. That means if I like to actually play something I do not care at all about a relative lack of rewards. So I can be of sane mind and still play Dyson Ground (I admittedly rarely do, but the same stuff is often said about ANR, and I like that one a lot).
I do understand that this thread is about balance and thus how to get competitive and I actually read your post in that sense, but the general assumption that the game is only about the numbers is wrong for most people. After all, why max out something if you do not have fun using it afterwards?
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
True, and not only them. A lot of consoles which affect two things will have synergy effects. Acc/Dmg, even if not the most-sought-after traits of the game, do that, too. My example was more of single traits and the discussion whether a linear growth means constant returns or decreasing returns.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Better person is subjective. Should I lie that players suck? Look at the OP. It spins players fault into game mechanics fault. Each player has access to everything to get 100k dps if so choose to make an effort. How can that be game mechanics fault? Should I spin a lie that it is not the players fault? Blame the game mechanics that player became lazy on making an effort of getting 100k DPS? On other threads players wanting communism/socialism by demanding more rewards for doing less effort by stealing from those who made more effort?
I am not a politician. I dont need to be politically correct. If truths hurt so much, they shouldnt post at all their lies/half truths, misinformation and spins or they should start increasing their quality of their post.
I am not a politician. I dont need to be politically correct. If truths hurt so much, they shouldnt post at all their lies/half truths, misinformation and spins or they should start increasing their quality of their post.
There is so much information out there on ship builds (some good, a lot bad). The first thing people do when playing the game is ask what they should put on their ship.
From the perspective of the majority of the player base, STO is a gear/build based game. The problem is that in any walk of life, having the best stuff doesn't make you the best... or even good!
Very rarely do you see a new player ask "how do these abilities work?", or "why does everyone slot this 2 piece set for the bonus?"
Without learning how the game works, and what does what, the gap between the good and the bad will get wider. Knowledge is power in this game, not stuff!
Comments
Well..If you were already on the Team chat for that map and were still ignoreing advise that would be on you.But hey to each their own.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
While I personally love running with tanks and I enjoy the concept enough to start building one for my alt, I have heard from some DPS players that it breaks their Reciprocity builds. If you rely on Reciprocity, you want a certain amount of aggro.
A good tank will grab up 80% of the aggro in an ISA run for example. Run with 2 tanks and you'll rarely get hit if at all. If you are just running a single copy of your tac skills because of reciprocity, it'll understandably hurt your setup if you're gunning for a DPS record in ISA.
I run Reciprocity too but since I rely less on my tac skills for damage for example, I am not hurt as much as other Reciprocity builds.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Ad hominem goes both ways. Players who complain cannot find proof of superiority of beams by the basis of personal experience rather than data. Players demanding they deserve to be at advance or self entitlement issues as proof by personal experience rather than data.
Had this started with data, players with opposing opinion would given you data. But hey personally for me, I treat players who do ad hominem with ad hominem. No sense putting data if the whiners/complainers cannot put data themselves.
Nor did I say it doesnt need a fix. All I am saying is that torps, cannons dont gimp you at all. Sometimes torps are even better than beams. Just need to know how to do it.
Nor would you know any of the work arounds over beams if no one posted their testing about plasmonic leech, eps, overcapping if that information wasnt spread out. Take away all that information about beams from your builds, if I would bet on it players who benefited from that information will suck using beams.
You can enjoy it without min/maxing. Small differences dont matter at lower end. Frustration is a players creation.
This is correct in away. However, I dont see this as unbalance. I see this as diversity. Different strengths, different weakness. Too many options.
Besides, if we have fewer options, players would be complaining about everything having the same strength and weakness, too few options.
Actually spire consoles give increasing returns.
The buff to energy damage is cat-1. The buff to crit damage is cat-2. So those buffs are multiplied together. Increasing both means that each increase is... increasing.
For example, let's look at a non-existent spire console with 50% damage bonus and 10% crith bonus. base damage of 100, 50 weapons power, no cat-3,4, or 5 bonuses, no other cat 1 or 2 bonuses, no other source of crith, and critd of 100%.
You get:
dmg = (crith)*(base)*(1+sum of cat-1's)*(1+sum of cat 2's+critd)+(1-crith)*(base)*(1+sum of cat-1's)*(1+sum of cat 2's+critd)
0 consoles: dmg = 0*100*(1+0)*(1+1)+(1-0)*100*(1+0)*(1+0) = 0*200+1*100 = 0+100 = 100
1 console: dmg = 0.1*100*(1+0.5)*(1+1)+(1-0.1)*100*(1+0.5)*(1+0) = 0.1*300+0.9*150 = 30+135 = 165
2 consoles: dmg = 0.2*100*(1+1)*(1+1)+(1-0.2)*100*(1+1)*(1+0) = 0.2*400+0.8*200 = 80+160 = 240
3 consoles: dmg = 0.3*100*(1+1.5)*(1+1)+(1-0.3)*100*(1+1.5)*(1+0) = 0.3*500+0.7*250 = 150+175 = 325
4 consoles: dmg = 0.4*100*(1+2)*(1+1)+(1-0.4)*100*(1+2)*(1+0) = 0.4*600+0.6*300 = 240+180 = 420
5 consoles: dmg = 0.5*100*(1+2.5)*(1+1)+(1-0.5)*100*(1+2.5)*(1+0) = 0.5*700+0.5*350 = 350+175 = 525
Which means that the first console adds 65 damage, the second 75, the third 85, the fourth 95, and the fifth 105.
That's increasing returns.
(and, yes, the numbers aren't at all realistic, I just simplified them for our purposes here. But the basic function is of the form z=cxy, with both x and y increasing and c being constant, so increasing returns are expected.)
Find in any of my posts where I insult or put down anyone.
you can look here:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/profile/comments/125586/rmy1081
I'm pretty sure you won't be able to because that's not who I am, so your "ad hominem with ad hominem" fails...
Disagreeing with someone is not the same as attacking, trolling, etc.
I asked for evidence to your claim and @darkknightucf and @pottsey5g provided it in a respectable manner, even including a video and parse data. That's what needs to be done to have a productive conversation. Personally, I don't ever mind being wrong, but if I am, you're going to have to show me with evidence and not random claims or tails of secret knowledge with no proof.
As for this discussion, there's plenty of things that need fixing including the lost crtD in DHCs, torpedoes missing out on mods, AI bugs where threat breaks, and some science powers just plain don't work against NPCs. Who wouldn't want those fixed?
No it doesnt. The thread is proof of it. It fails because you assumed it was you rather than multiple players in multiple threads.
It starts by players basing their complaints/whining on ad hominem.
Which is the same thing as random claims and no proof of complaints and whining. No sense answering with actual data and video if players complaining have no data or scientific test to prove their claims.
You also dont see me complaining in a well research, well tested thread by Snipey re: plasma explosion. But you do see me on this thread or similar threads like these.
These types of conversations start due complaining/whining start it with ad hominem. That is why it is a double edge sword. If you want a conversation to be productive better hope the complainer be not also do random claims and tails.
My point being, players complaining should Posts first their video, data that torps, cannons suck then I will post mine to contradict that data. Absent of that, these players complaining are just trolling and also doing random claims and tails. So no point replying to them with data if they also dont actually follow that productive conversation.
Never said I dont want those fix if you actually read my posts.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bpPg8Hc88bI3rGY323L-h-ns2-PP4FL5BViwlVNxd6Q/pubchart?oid=759673330
Conditions where a salvo HY1 can out-perform a salvo HY3 if you have low (sub 25%) critH, and variable critD. Note: A Salvo HY fires R+1, where R = Rank of the HY.
HY1 fires 2 torps
HY2 fires 3 torps
HY3 fires 4 torps
Edit: OK, so the Y-axis formatting is off. From top to bottom, it's a measurement of each firing mode where no torp crits (same as one torp crits, but has 0 critD to boost it), and then one torp crits for each firing mode at 100, 150, 200, and 250 critD. You can see that close to 200 critD, HY1 overtakes HY3.
I can do this for where two torps crit for each firing mode, but I suspect that it would favor HY1 even more. I'll do the numbers when I'm not tired.
Here's the spreadsheet used to calculate the numbers (so you can check the math and download a copy).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bpPg8Hc88bI3rGY323L-h-ns2-PP4FL5BViwlVNxd6Q/edit?usp=sharing
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Well, you quoted me...
That's where you're getting into trouble. You seem think everyone is just "complaining" and "whining" and that they don't have any valid points after that. If you treated other posters with respect, you'll probably get better results.
I wasn't talking about you...
So you're saying if I have a low crtH, HY1, outperforms HY2 and HY3? If so, that's pretty interesting.
Also, what's the crtH cutoff point for that? It's not too clear on your graph.
I edited my post for some clarity. It's been a very long 43hrs, and had to deal w/ M$ A LOT today concerning O365 and ActiveSync. Forgive me.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Thanks, much better now
I am just rubbing some peoples egos especially those with sensitive egos who are they themselves disrespectful and trolls hiding themselves as "victims". Quite the opposite if I reply to the work of snipey in plasma explosion. I dont think I treated snipey disrespectful re plasma explosion nor got any of my attitude.
which put as with where these complainers/whiners data coming from? Like I keep on saying it is a two way street. You wont get an attitude from me if I didnt get an attitude from you. Nor if the those complaining put actual data. Look at this thread is actual nonsense including certain of posts. Most are ad hominem.
If the post is also respectful with actual facts, well researched, no problem nor would you see me in the threads or reply.
Or you could just be the better person.
You just have to enter the Dyson ground battlezone and you will realize how weak players' own ground teams are and what type of BOFF combinations and equipment they have. 90% of them lack the overall investment in making their own NPC group really good and "that" is not the fault of the game.
1. Nobody in their right mind should do Dyson ground BZ. The rewards are TRIBBLE for the time invested.
2. ->
All geared out with Rep Sets. Too bad there is no content that is worth playing that this matters.
Woah boy. You can't cherry pick what I say in NOP PS. I love this game, and that won't change. My biggest regret was promoting the DPS power creep as back as Season 5 when people politely started to tell me to go **** myself. I should have listened because I couldn't keep up with what other people did, and didn't realize how horribly pay for advantage this game would become as a result. I have not a single space build that can do above 30K at the moment, and have no plans to unless my crazy gimmicks allow it.
Now that I've read this entire thread, I am so happy that people on here are more enlightened than they were a few years ago. I used to get yelled out of town for saying that things were broken which is where all of the "Kraust is an TRIBBLE" stuff originated.
* Kraust is really critical of certain mechanics in this game that if abused can totally break it as described in this topic. This is why Kraust speaks in the third person and enjoys ground combat, remembers a time before the DPS race where Elite STF channels were formed out of necessity and not to brag about how much better they were than others.
You can make a 30k ship for 1-3M EC. Here's an example. MBagel made a couple more examples at /r/stobuilds.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
STO must have been your first (and if you follow through) and last MMO. Power creep is the nature of the beast for any MMO as it ages. The Devs need to give you a reason to keep playing/grinding for gear, and the only way to do that is to make better gear then the currently existing top gear in the game; or add gear that complements existing gear (thus upping DPS.)
If you can't handle that situation, stick to single player games.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
This is cherry picked and requires you to have very specific traits (Biggest problem with balance right now), be a tac captain (second biggest), having the wrong spec (I speced Command/Commando for ground), ect.
Those traits require Lv 15 in crafting schools which take several months to get.
It also required a full(?) Intel AND Pilot Spec Tree.
Replication without the traits / being tac will give a very different output.
I actually run something very similar with my Olaen and do not reach 30K unless I get a very good Fleet Support.
For hilarious giggles I suggested that beam build on the Defiant 2+ years ago (before being banned from that sub, also suggestions Plasma before Romulan Rep was released):
https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/1dplfe/wip_krausts_beamscort_10k_dps/
To summarize: If anything you have proven my initial point in that the ship build doesn't actually matter, it's the small things like Traits, Starship Masteries and Doffs that determine DPS.
Yeah it does require quite a bit of effort to get those traits up. Should there be a reward though without a bit of effort in the game?
You may be right about the tac part though, though I wouldn't think that at that kind of gear, the difference would be too big vs Scis and Engs.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Power creep is never handled the way STO handles it though. With power creep older content becomes trivial and the loot is often not desirable anymore.
With STO they increase the difficulty of older content and nerf the loot. They also don't even bother trying to balance things, which other MMOs do. For some MMOs every week's patch includes numerous balance changes. They may never achieve it (most don't) but they try. STO handles it like an asian mmo: give the players more and more power to strive for, forget about balancing it and make them want to pay for it.
This is spot on. We rarely (if ever) see balance changes to individual abilities, or even ability remakes. This is something you would see in a typical MMO very frequently.
I'm investing my time here for having fun. That means if I like to actually play something I do not care at all about a relative lack of rewards. So I can be of sane mind and still play Dyson Ground (I admittedly rarely do, but the same stuff is often said about ANR, and I like that one a lot).
I do understand that this thread is about balance and thus how to get competitive and I actually read your post in that sense, but the general assumption that the game is only about the numbers is wrong for most people. After all, why max out something if you do not have fun using it afterwards?
True, and not only them. A lot of consoles which affect two things will have synergy effects. Acc/Dmg, even if not the most-sought-after traits of the game, do that, too. My example was more of single traits and the discussion whether a linear growth means constant returns or decreasing returns.
Better person is subjective. Should I lie that players suck? Look at the OP. It spins players fault into game mechanics fault. Each player has access to everything to get 100k dps if so choose to make an effort. How can that be game mechanics fault? Should I spin a lie that it is not the players fault? Blame the game mechanics that player became lazy on making an effort of getting 100k DPS? On other threads players wanting communism/socialism by demanding more rewards for doing less effort by stealing from those who made more effort?
I am not a politician. I dont need to be politically correct. If truths hurt so much, they shouldnt post at all their lies/half truths, misinformation and spins or they should start increasing their quality of their post.
Well in light of the Nandi’s ship trait Greedy Emitters those three are invited right back in. Ya know, just for the DPS!
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
From the perspective of the majority of the player base, STO is a gear/build based game. The problem is that in any walk of life, having the best stuff doesn't make you the best... or even good!
Very rarely do you see a new player ask "how do these abilities work?", or "why does everyone slot this 2 piece set for the bonus?"
Without learning how the game works, and what does what, the gap between the good and the bad will get wider. Knowledge is power in this game, not stuff!