I am adamantly a non-min/maxer, I refuse to parse and I refuse to be parsed, I put anyone who posts a parse in chat on ignore immediately.
Preach it brother. Amen.
Its a shame Cryptic doenst allow a privacy option that would give the players the option not to be parsed. This became worse then were the disco balls in trolling arsenals. Even the whole YOUR DPS concept its a farse. Since the moment someone paints a debuff on your target it stops to be YOUR DPS.
But sadly, probably lots of devs have joined the DPS cult so nothing will be done regarding that
STO must have been your first (and if you follow through) and last MMO. Power creep is the nature of the beast for any MMO as it ages. The Devs need to give you a reason to keep playing/grinding for gear, and the only way to do that is to make better gear then the currently existing top gear in the game; or add gear that complements existing gear (thus upping DPS.)
If you can't handle that situation, stick to single player games.
Wrong. As a few others mentioned, powercreep and balance is handled in other MMOs by regular balance checks and constant comunication with the players. Here only during adjudicatorhawk's times some balance and player-dev comunication was done, but sadly he's gone. Now they just hide in 3rd party forums like the reddit forums and post here only when suits them and about trivial matters while important ones are left unaswered to keep players in-doubt.
And speaking of reason to keep playing. It was. And so was player progression. But you and other DPSers fail to see it since it wasnt vertical but horizontal progression. As in most MMOs, many players chase shiny items and love alting, not some fake/made up charts. Alting made players getting new items/sets, ships etc. while ensured gameplay options, whatever was shipbuilding or carrier choises. If you got bored on 1 toon, there were multitude of other alts to play/level or equip. Now the difference its so huge between 1 super equiped/lvled char and another not so much, even if both are lvl 60, that you just gave up on even bothering. So no ships purchase, no item sets, gear etc.
Prior DR, alting was the reason the game could suport 2 major expansions. What happened after DR when alting and horizontal progression was pretty much killed and this DPS nonsense vertical progression is been shoved into player faces. Well... check last quarter of 2014 PWE earning reports. And 2015 dont seem to be much better judging by the ammount of ships, promotions, off sales etc released...
Even in these dark times, look at when alting was only enabled during the shuttle event. For those 2-3 days, players actually bought zen to convert dil and used the marks to work on their reputation and get rep gear. The zen-dil ratio went from 220 to 199. Was one of the rare ocasions when it droped under 200. At first glance your've expected, with all that mark infusion, to be the opposite. But it wasnt. Players didnt stack/hoard if the rewards were decent. I know devs dont like players to hoard. Well... dont give them reasons to...
But as long as this company doesnt get that "tighting the TRIBBLE" doenst work for this game: botlenecking the resourses, making items exclusive / hiding them behind elites with ridiculous "challanges", disregarding any balance what-so-ever and getting the grind to ridiculous lvls, any event/promos, however nice well intended they may be, like the delta recruits or the veteran comeback promos, are futile. Players wont stay if the game wont change. The FEs are not gonna keep a long term player, but neither are the ridiculous levels of grind, imbalance and "challanges".
Nobody wants things to be given yesterday, but not in an year worth of time either. Even balance on grinding its off-the-scale, on multiple lvls. And I know some will respond with: but you dont have to... Wich is one of the most stupid things you could even hear. Its pretty much like saying: but you dont have to play the game for what you enjoy/like. And that translates pretty much "may as well not play the game after all".
It's not just the DPS'ers, it's the whales that have bottomless bank accounts. The Whales (most of them are DPS'ers), want the shiny new ship. Having something new is instant gratification, they don't have to grind for it because they have the money to buy it. Once it's obtained, they will loose interest in a month, around that time another shiny new ship will emerge.
The argument of; "any ship can do damage", is false. Science ships do not inflict damage to an NPC ship, the same way an escort can. Science ships rely on abilities that are science/technology based. Many of those abilities are easily canceled. Yet an escort only has to keep firing away at a target to inflict damage.
A counter balance to DPS can be implemented, but the whales will throw a tantrum. Thus, Cryptic will give into the demands of the whales for more DPS.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
It's not just the DPS'ers, it's the whales that have bottomless bank accounts. The Whales (most of them are DPS'ers), want the shiny new ship. Having something new is instant gratification, they don't have to grind for it because they have the money to buy it. Once it's obtained, they will loose interest in a month, around that time another shiny new ship will emerge.
The argument of; "any ship can do damage", is false. Science ships do not inflict damage to an NPC ship, the same way an escort can. Science ships rely on abilities that are science/technology based. Many of those abilities are easily canceled. Yet an escort only has to keep firing away at a target to inflict damage.
A counter balance to DPS can be implemented, but the whales will throw a tantrum. Thus, Cryptic will give into the demands of the whales for more DPS.
Meh, the last time they did something like that they didn't revert it.... or did you forget the whining that followed when they gave Voth that reflective shield power. Well the Voth still have it...
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
Meanwhile, back in reality, PvP was all but entirely abandoned a long time ago, and hasn't been relevant, let alone a consideration of any significance where balance is concerned, for a very long while.
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
Meanwhile, back in reality, PvP was all but entirely abandoned a long time ago, and hasn't been relevant, let alone a consideration of any significance where balance is concerned, for a very long while.
Guess again. PvP'ers are alive and well and you better believe they're trying to ruin the game every chance they get just so the FEDs can be on top.
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
Meanwhile, back in reality, PvP was all but entirely abandoned a long time ago, and hasn't been relevant, let alone a consideration of any significance where balance is concerned, for a very long while.
Guess again. PvP'ers are alive and well and you better believe they're trying to ruin the game every chance they get just so the FEDs can be on top.
LOL at all those people insisting that there are diminishing returns because you get less % with each console. LOL less sto, more math lessons for you.
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
This is one of the most ridicilous posts I have read here on the forums since my ban was lifted. You sir just beat some of the TRIBBLE some of the most zealous dps cultists write on these boards.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
Seriously. Huh? What are you talking about?
Who says combat is fair? Art of war is to make the decisive move even having the best gear. I am not a min-maxer or DPS person but if someone is in war video game or reality. You try to have the best gear period.
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
Ironically the only true whining I see in this thread is this right here, done by yourself.
LOL at all those people insisting that there are diminishing returns because you get less % with each console. LOL less sto, more math lessons for you.
But you do. The only thing that keeps that Cat1 valuable is Cat2 or non Cat1 sources. Not much Cat 2 if your non tac.
Besides no issue there if you cannot reach the DPS ceiling. It is like debating how to get 20% damage resistance when your damage resistance isnt equal to 20 and you are very far from the ceiling of 75%.
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
Seriously. Huh? What are you talking about?
Who says combat is fair? Art of war is to make the decisive move even having the best gear. I am not a min-maxer or DPS person but if someone is in war video game or reality. You try to have the best gear period.
To paraphrase Sun Tzu, "battles are either lost or won before they are fought". Thus pre-mission prep is as important as the fight itself.
The problem with DPS being king is inherent to not only the design of MMOs, but Cryptic's Free to Play formula. To briefly summarize the problem.
DPS helps you win fast, the more the better. Tanking and Healing/Support helps you not die, you need enough to not constantly die.
Since dying is a slap on the wrist, this devalues Tanking and Healing.
Therefore, better tanking/healing is useless beyond a point while for DPS the sky's the limit.
There is a large disparity between players in how well they are equipped. This disparity can only be bridged by either a lot of grinding, or real money.
Making top-end missions be serious threats to the Whales, to the point that they start considering tanking and healing to stay alive means that they will utterly crush the casual players.
You can't TRIBBLE off the casual players too much, they're the people you're trying to convert into Whales.
Therefore they under-tune the instances, so that tanking and healing are not needed because sky-high DPs blitzes everything.
There are certain things that Cryptic can do to help make Tanking/Healing more important. Harsher penalties for dying, the ability to have your ship visibly marked as a healer ship, and WOW-style raid markers would all be welcome additions. However, the fundamental problem cannot be solved without looking at the business model, and that's not going to happen anytime soon.
[*] There is a large disparity between players in how well they are equipped. This disparity can only be bridged by either a lot of grinding, or real money.
This is compounded by a lack of understanding on how the game mechanics work. That's why some players are able to level a new toon in super quick time, and some spend hours on a single mission at level 10. That has nothing to do with gear.
This is compounded by a lack of understanding on how the game mechanics work. That's why some players are able to level a new toon in super quick time, and some spend hours on a single mission at level 10. That has nothing to do with gear.
It doesn't help that there is no central list of relevant gear. In a game like World of Warcraft you know which "Tier" each set of gear is on, so if you want to gear up you know the basic progression path. For this game, there are so many sources of gear, scattered among so many vendors and lockbox rewards, that just getting a list of what is available is a challenge, to say nothing about finding the best combination. How would a new player even know something called "Plasmonic Leech" even exists, or why they should start grinding to get it.
This is compounded by a lack of understanding on how the game mechanics work. That's why some players are able to level a new toon in super quick time, and some spend hours on a single mission at level 10. That has nothing to do with gear.
It doesn't help that there is no central list of relevant gear. In a game like World of Warcraft you know which "Tier" each set of gear is on, so if you want to gear up you know the basic progression path. For this game, there are so many sources of gear, scattered among so many vendors and lockbox rewards, that just getting a list of what is available is a challenge, to say nothing about finding the best combination. How would a new player even know something called "Plasmonic Leech" even exists, or why they should start grinding to get it.
STO has no progression, only gear min-maxing which causes a huge dilemma with the definition o "winning" the game.
You can do all of the content 1-60 (And do decently on all Advanced Level Content) with Retro Phasers from the T1 Connie and and min-max on the Bridge Officer Layout. Half of the gear doesn't even matter.
It's pretty silly where priorities are. Gotta please the whales.
Why haven't I upgraded a set of Connie Phasers yet?
The problem with DPS being king is inherent to not only the design of MMOs, but Cryptic's Free to Play formula. To briefly summarize the problem.
DPS helps you win fast, the more the better. Tanking and Healing/Support helps you not die, you need enough to not constantly die.
Since dying is a slap on the wrist, this devalues Tanking and Healing.
Therefore, better tanking/healing is useless beyond a point while for DPS the sky's the limit.
There is a large disparity between players in how well they are equipped. This disparity can only be bridged by either a lot of grinding, or real money.
Making top-end missions be serious threats to the Whales, to the point that they start considering tanking and healing to stay alive means that they will utterly crush the casual players.
You can't TRIBBLE off the casual players too much, they're the people you're trying to convert into Whales.
Therefore they under-tune the instances, so that tanking and healing are not needed because sky-high DPs blitzes everything.
There are certain things that Cryptic can do to help make Tanking/Healing more important. Harsher penalties for dying, the ability to have your ship visibly marked as a healer ship, and WOW-style raid markers would all be welcome additions. However, the fundamental problem cannot be solved without looking at the business model, and that's not going to happen anytime soon.
Many other MMOs have managed to figure out an even balance of things. I remember in WoW, for instance, yes you needed a certain standard of DPS to kill raid bosses before their enrage timers went off, but you also needed tanks to be able to hold aggro and position the mobs, and healers to keep everyone alive. And even DPS had a bit of variance between melee and casters, single target and AoE. Moreover, WoW's PvE content was a bit more interesting than just massive health bags and zerg spam, there were actually distinct encounter mechanics at work.
The way that DPS is king in STO seems to be an issue exclusive to STO's PvE design (or lack thereof).
Lol @thetanine... Just lol... When was the last time something was needed because of PvP? When was the last addition to PvP? When did the devs last focus on developing PvP? When have PvPers not fought for what PvErs are fighting for now, balance?
Sorry for the text wall but the "DPSers understand the game better" argument needs addressing.
There was an earlier comment on this thread stating that DPSers are the best due to having "more skill and knowledge" and therefore it's a bit harsh to punish them. This seems to be a popular opinion.
It has however a flaw.
I will not deny, and I doubt anyone will, that DPSers have a good, not great but good, understanding of consoles/ship build and BOFF power interaction with their build and various combined powers. It's how they get such Sooooper Deeeeeps. It's something you can learn by testing the latest consoles in ISA (the least challenging but reliable queue for damage estimation).
This impresses a lot of people but not some, which angers the impressed.
Why aren't a few impressed?
Because PvPers have had a very good and greater understanding of said "skill ...knowledge", build and boff power interaction from before the PvE queues. And we still do.
The reason for this is simple. PvErs/DPSers work on how their build and powers interact against an NPC that is all but high shields and high hulls with the occasional buff/debuff thrown at you. This is simple to deal with. You simply buy/grind the gear necessary to increase your DPS to destroy the target before he has a chance to do enough damage. As a result high DPS build's have little to no damage resistance or surviving ability with the exception of high hull cruisers.
PvPers not only had to bear in mind the aforementioned build & power interaction of their own ship but also of the players they may face. We took into account how certain BOFF power combinations may affect our ship and how the opponent's build will work for said opponent so as to prey on its weaknesses while attempting overcome our own build's weaknesses.
See the difference?
In PvP DPS was never the answer to anything. Knowledge and understanding build-to-build was (not build-to-NPC). The understanding that resistances were just as important as the ability to deal damage. That pressure damage was just as dangerous as spike damage and learning how to cope with both. The knowing how but more importantly when to counteract Sci powers to prevent. In season 8.5 we were holding our own in a 2+v1 in Ker'rat against 2+ different ships and 2 build's at the same time (created some awkward fights) and we never knew what we were in for. That takes "skill, knowledge", understanding and patience!
But we got punished for this.
Another small fact to consider is that a PvE DPS builds have always been very ineffective in PvP whereas a PvP build can be more than effective in PvE. It won't break records but it'll be more than adequate to complete nearly every STF with a half decent team.
Many other MMOs have managed to figure out an even balance of things. I remember in WoW, for instance, yes you needed a certain standard of DPS to kill raid bosses before their enrage timers went off, but you also needed tanks to be able to hold aggro and position the mobs, and healers to keep everyone alive. And even DPS had a bit of variance between melee and casters, single target and AoE. Moreover, WoW's PvE content was a bit more interesting than just massive health bags and zerg spam, there were actually distinct encounter mechanics at work.
The way that DPS is king in STO seems to be an issue exclusive to STO's PvE design (or lack thereof).
World of Warcraft has a vastly different gearing system. It's challenge based: If you complete Challenge X, you hopefully get Loot Y. It's easy to have your guild run you through older content to assemble a passable raiding set, supported by LFR. STO is a grind based system. You put in resources, and that improves your gear. A skilled player can get resources faster, but anyone can eventually save up enough to get good stuff.
In World of Warcraft, if you're designing a Tier 12 raid, you can assume that everyone will already have Tier 11 gear or close to it, and tune your encounters appropriately. In STO, you can have Whales and Free to Play Casuals in the same group. There's little incentive for the players to play more advanced difficulties if they can breeze through the less difficult ones because they both reward the same type of resources, just one is a bit faster.
World of Warcraft also deliberately encourages having a Tank with certain abilities only Tanks have which boil down to "if you don't have this, the boss is going to instagib you" and if you were a DPS you had almost no healing. I suppose Cryptic could go down that route.
In the end, as far as PVE is concerned...the 1 problem that rules them all..is that with only 1 or 2 exceptions FLEET ACTIONS PAYOUTS in relation to gear and placement is STRICTLY DPS-BASED.
Obviously things like CCA reward based on healing, but that's about it. Until other playstyles are rewarded, this is what they made, and the chickens are coming home to roost.
OP goes Whaaa Whaaa please go away I am so sick of whiners. You don't like the game freaking quit ang go play Star Wars. People like you are to blame for newer players quiting. You pull an elitest attitude and offer no help to them on how to improve thier play. Instead you go onto the forums and blast them. Maybe instead of copping this attitude you might try helping them out. To be blunt I'll take a full team of "weak" ships over you in a heartbeat.
Some people have been pulling DPS numbers capable of solo'ing ISA since nearly delta expansion. Just nobody has been bragging about it until recently.
I agree that people should be able to produce a certain DPS number before politely joining advanced. I personally think that is either 10k or 5k+gravity well. Neither is particularly difficult.
Ok smart TRIBBLE how else are newer players going to get the raw mats to craft and improve thier gear? I just love you elitist jerks that want to shut out newer players from trying things and from procurng the BNP's etc. they need sure you can get them trading in the points but hey guess what those same players need both to get the rep gear and crafting mats. I have no issues with a weaker player joining in as long as they try and not sit there like so many other players do. I'll take a team of weaker ships and players any time over elitest jerk offs.
Some people have been pulling DPS numbers capable of solo'ing ISA since nearly delta expansion. Just nobody has been bragging about it until recently.
I agree that people should be able to produce a certain DPS number before politely joining advanced. I personally think that is either 10k or 5k+gravity well. Neither is particularly difficult.
Ok smart TRIBBLE how else are newer players going to get the raw mats to craft and improve thier gear? I just love you elitist jerks that want to shut out newer players from trying things and from procurng the BNP's etc. they need sure you can get them trading in the points but hey guess what those same players need both to get the rep gear and crafting mats. I have no issues with a weaker player joining in as long as they try and not sit there like so many other players do. I'll take a team of weaker ships and players any time over elitest jerk offs.
Welcome to STO. This is how it's always been, and how it'll always be.
Ok smart TRIBBLE how else are newer players going to get the raw mats to craft and improve thier gear? I just love you elitist jerks that want to shut out newer players from trying things and from procurng the BNP's etc. they need sure you can get them trading in the points but hey guess what those same players need both to get the rep gear and crafting mats. I have no issues with a weaker player joining in as long as they try and not sit there like so many other players do. I'll take a team of weaker ships and players any time over elitest jerk offs.
You can earn by playing normal to get BNPs. No need to play advance to get BNPs nor Marks. Or they can improve themselves, piloting, build in order to complete advance.
No need to be funky about self entitled players stealing from those who earned advance the hard way. However, that is a closed issue and That ship has sailed. Game has nerfed Advance to Normal levels months ago.
Comments
Its a shame Cryptic doenst allow a privacy option that would give the players the option not to be parsed. This became worse then were the disco balls in trolling arsenals. Even the whole YOUR DPS concept its a farse. Since the moment someone paints a debuff on your target it stops to be YOUR DPS.
But sadly, probably lots of devs have joined the DPS cult so nothing will be done regarding that
Wrong. As a few others mentioned, powercreep and balance is handled in other MMOs by regular balance checks and constant comunication with the players. Here only during adjudicatorhawk's times some balance and player-dev comunication was done, but sadly he's gone. Now they just hide in 3rd party forums like the reddit forums and post here only when suits them and about trivial matters while important ones are left unaswered to keep players in-doubt.
And speaking of reason to keep playing. It was. And so was player progression. But you and other DPSers fail to see it since it wasnt vertical but horizontal progression. As in most MMOs, many players chase shiny items and love alting, not some fake/made up charts. Alting made players getting new items/sets, ships etc. while ensured gameplay options, whatever was shipbuilding or carrier choises. If you got bored on 1 toon, there were multitude of other alts to play/level or equip. Now the difference its so huge between 1 super equiped/lvled char and another not so much, even if both are lvl 60, that you just gave up on even bothering. So no ships purchase, no item sets, gear etc.
Prior DR, alting was the reason the game could suport 2 major expansions. What happened after DR when alting and horizontal progression was pretty much killed and this DPS nonsense vertical progression is been shoved into player faces. Well... check last quarter of 2014 PWE earning reports. And 2015 dont seem to be much better judging by the ammount of ships, promotions, off sales etc released...
Even in these dark times, look at when alting was only enabled during the shuttle event. For those 2-3 days, players actually bought zen to convert dil and used the marks to work on their reputation and get rep gear. The zen-dil ratio went from 220 to 199. Was one of the rare ocasions when it droped under 200. At first glance your've expected, with all that mark infusion, to be the opposite. But it wasnt. Players didnt stack/hoard if the rewards were decent. I know devs dont like players to hoard. Well... dont give them reasons to...
But as long as this company doesnt get that "tighting the TRIBBLE" doenst work for this game: botlenecking the resourses, making items exclusive / hiding them behind elites with ridiculous "challanges", disregarding any balance what-so-ever and getting the grind to ridiculous lvls, any event/promos, however nice well intended they may be, like the delta recruits or the veteran comeback promos, are futile. Players wont stay if the game wont change. The FEs are not gonna keep a long term player, but neither are the ridiculous levels of grind, imbalance and "challanges".
Nobody wants things to be given yesterday, but not in an year worth of time either. Even balance on grinding its off-the-scale, on multiple lvls. And I know some will respond with: but you dont have to... Wich is one of the most stupid things you could even hear. Its pretty much like saying: but you dont have to play the game for what you enjoy/like. And that translates pretty much "may as well not play the game after all".
The argument of; "any ship can do damage", is false. Science ships do not inflict damage to an NPC ship, the same way an escort can. Science ships rely on abilities that are science/technology based. Many of those abilities are easily canceled. Yet an escort only has to keep firing away at a target to inflict damage.
A counter balance to DPS can be implemented, but the whales will throw a tantrum. Thus, Cryptic will give into the demands of the whales for more DPS.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
My character Tsin'xing
Meanwhile, back in reality, PvP was all but entirely abandoned a long time ago, and hasn't been relevant, let alone a consideration of any significance where balance is concerned, for a very long while.
Guess again. PvP'ers are alive and well and you better believe they're trying to ruin the game every chance they get just so the FEDs can be on top.
Lol.
This is one of the most ridicilous posts I have read here on the forums since my ban was lifted. You sir just beat some of the TRIBBLE some of the most zealous dps cultists write on these boards.
Seriously. Huh? What are you talking about?
Who says combat is fair? Art of war is to make the decisive move even having the best gear. I am not a min-maxer or DPS person but if someone is in war video game or reality. You try to have the best gear period.
Ironically the only true whining I see in this thread is this right here, done by yourself.
But you do. The only thing that keeps that Cat1 valuable is Cat2 or non Cat1 sources. Not much Cat 2 if your non tac.
Besides no issue there if you cannot reach the DPS ceiling. It is like debating how to get 20% damage resistance when your damage resistance isnt equal to 20 and you are very far from the ceiling of 75%.
I believe you misunderstood. Someone was blaming the PvPers for nerfs. As if PvPers have had any influence in the game in the last 3 years.
My character Tsin'xing
- DPS helps you win fast, the more the better. Tanking and Healing/Support helps you not die, you need enough to not constantly die.
- Since dying is a slap on the wrist, this devalues Tanking and Healing.
- Therefore, better tanking/healing is useless beyond a point while for DPS the sky's the limit.
- There is a large disparity between players in how well they are equipped. This disparity can only be bridged by either a lot of grinding, or real money.
- Making top-end missions be serious threats to the Whales, to the point that they start considering tanking and healing to stay alive means that they will utterly crush the casual players.
- You can't TRIBBLE off the casual players too much, they're the people you're trying to convert into Whales.
- Therefore they under-tune the instances, so that tanking and healing are not needed because sky-high DPs blitzes everything.
There are certain things that Cryptic can do to help make Tanking/Healing more important. Harsher penalties for dying, the ability to have your ship visibly marked as a healer ship, and WOW-style raid markers would all be welcome additions. However, the fundamental problem cannot be solved without looking at the business model, and that's not going to happen anytime soon.This is compounded by a lack of understanding on how the game mechanics work. That's why some players are able to level a new toon in super quick time, and some spend hours on a single mission at level 10. That has nothing to do with gear.
STO has no progression, only gear min-maxing which causes a huge dilemma with the definition o "winning" the game.
You can do all of the content 1-60 (And do decently on all Advanced Level Content) with Retro Phasers from the T1 Connie and and min-max on the Bridge Officer Layout. Half of the gear doesn't even matter.
It's pretty silly where priorities are. Gotta please the whales.
Why haven't I upgraded a set of Connie Phasers yet?
My character Tsin'xing
Many other MMOs have managed to figure out an even balance of things. I remember in WoW, for instance, yes you needed a certain standard of DPS to kill raid bosses before their enrage timers went off, but you also needed tanks to be able to hold aggro and position the mobs, and healers to keep everyone alive. And even DPS had a bit of variance between melee and casters, single target and AoE. Moreover, WoW's PvE content was a bit more interesting than just massive health bags and zerg spam, there were actually distinct encounter mechanics at work.
The way that DPS is king in STO seems to be an issue exclusive to STO's PvE design (or lack thereof).
When was the last time something was needed because of PvP? When was the last addition to PvP? When did the devs last focus on developing PvP? When have PvPers not fought for what PvErs are fighting for now, balance?
There was an earlier comment on this thread stating that DPSers are the best due to having "more skill and knowledge" and therefore it's a bit harsh to punish them. This seems to be a popular opinion.
It has however a flaw.
I will not deny, and I doubt anyone will, that DPSers have a good, not great but good, understanding of consoles/ship build and BOFF power interaction with their build and various combined powers. It's how they get such Sooooper Deeeeeps. It's something you can learn by testing the latest consoles in ISA (the least challenging but reliable queue for damage estimation).
This impresses a lot of people but not some, which angers the impressed.
Why aren't a few impressed?
Because PvPers have had a very good and greater understanding of said "skill ...knowledge", build and boff power interaction from before the PvE queues. And we still do.
The reason for this is simple.
PvErs/DPSers work on how their build and powers interact against an NPC that is all but high shields and high hulls with the occasional buff/debuff thrown at you. This is simple to deal with. You simply buy/grind the gear necessary to increase your DPS to destroy the target before he has a chance to do enough damage.
As a result high DPS build's have little to no damage resistance or surviving ability with the exception of high hull cruisers.
PvPers not only had to bear in mind the aforementioned build & power interaction of their own ship but also of the players they may face. We took into account how certain BOFF power combinations may affect our ship and how the opponent's build will work for said opponent so as to prey on its weaknesses while attempting overcome our own build's weaknesses.
See the difference?
In PvP DPS was never the answer to anything. Knowledge and understanding build-to-build was (not build-to-NPC). The understanding that resistances were just as important as the ability to deal damage. That pressure damage was just as dangerous as spike damage and learning how to cope with both. The knowing how but more importantly when to counteract Sci powers to prevent. In season 8.5 we were holding our own in a 2+v1 in Ker'rat against 2+ different ships and 2 build's at the same time (created some awkward fights) and we never knew what we were in for.
That takes "skill, knowledge", understanding and patience!
But we got punished for this.
Another small fact to consider is that a PvE DPS builds have always been very ineffective in PvP whereas a PvP build can be more than effective in PvE. It won't break records but it'll be more than adequate to complete nearly every STF with a half decent team.
In World of Warcraft, if you're designing a Tier 12 raid, you can assume that everyone will already have Tier 11 gear or close to it, and tune your encounters appropriately. In STO, you can have Whales and Free to Play Casuals in the same group. There's little incentive for the players to play more advanced difficulties if they can breeze through the less difficult ones because they both reward the same type of resources, just one is a bit faster.
World of Warcraft also deliberately encourages having a Tank with certain abilities only Tanks have which boil down to "if you don't have this, the boss is going to instagib you" and if you were a DPS you had almost no healing. I suppose Cryptic could go down that route.
Obviously things like CCA reward based on healing, but that's about it. Until other playstyles are rewarded, this is what they made, and the chickens are coming home to roost.
Ok smart TRIBBLE how else are newer players going to get the raw mats to craft and improve thier gear? I just love you elitist jerks that want to shut out newer players from trying things and from procurng the BNP's etc. they need sure you can get them trading in the points but hey guess what those same players need both to get the rep gear and crafting mats. I have no issues with a weaker player joining in as long as they try and not sit there like so many other players do. I'll take a team of weaker ships and players any time over elitest jerk offs.
Welcome to STO. This is how it's always been, and how it'll always be.
You can earn by playing normal to get BNPs. No need to play advance to get BNPs nor Marks. Or they can improve themselves, piloting, build in order to complete advance.
No need to be funky about self entitled players stealing from those who earned advance the hard way. However, that is a closed issue and That ship has sailed. Game has nerfed Advance to Normal levels months ago.