Conditions where a salvo HY1 can out-perform a salvo HY3 if you have low critH.
So you're saying if I have a low crtH, HY1, outperforms HY2 and HY3? If so, that's pretty interesting.
Also, what's the crtH cutoff point for that? It's not too clear on your graph.
I edited my post for some clarity. It's been a very long 43hrs, and had to deal w/ M$ A LOT today concerning O365 and ActiveSync. Forgive me.
Conditions where a salvo HY1 can out-perform a salvo HY3 if you have low critH.
So you're saying if I have a low crtH, HY1, outperforms HY2 and HY3? If so, that's pretty interesting.
Also, what's the crtH cutoff point for that? It's not too clear on your graph.
I edited my post for some clarity. It's been a very long 43hrs, and had to deal w/ M$ A LOT today concerning O365 and ActiveSync. Forgive me.
That's where you're getting into trouble. You seem think everyone is just "complaining" and "whining" and that they don't have any valid points after that. If you treated other posters with respect, you'll probably get better results.
I am just rubbing some peoples egos especially those with sensitive egos who are they themselves disrespectful and trolls hiding themselves as "victims". Quite the opposite if I reply to the work of snipey in plasma explosion. I dont think I treated snipey disrespectful re plasma explosion nor got any of my attitude.
which put as with where these complainers/whiners data coming from? Like I keep on saying it is a two way street. You wont get an attitude from me if I didnt get an attitude from you. Nor if the those complaining put actual data. Look at this thread is actual nonsense including certain of posts. Most are ad hominem.
If the post is also respectful with actual facts, well researched, no problem nor would you see me in the threads or reply.
That's where you're getting into trouble. You seem think everyone is just "complaining" and "whining" and that they don't have any valid points after that. If you treated other posters with respect, you'll probably get better results.
I am just rubbing some peoples egos especially those with sensitive egos who are they themselves disrespectful and trolls hiding themselves as "victims". Quite the opposite if I reply to the work of snipey in plasma explosion. I dont think I treated snipey disrespectful re plasma explosion nor got any of my attitude.
which put as with where these complainers/whiners data coming from? Like I keep on saying it is a two way street. You wont get an attitude from me if I didnt get an attitude from you. Nor if the those complaining put actual data. Look at this thread is actual nonsense including certain of posts. Most are ad hominem.
If the post is also respectful with actual facts, well researched, no problem nor would you see me in the threads or reply.
I had to single this out as someone who loves ground / does ground more than space
You just have to enter the Dyson ground battlezone and you will realize how weak players' own ground teams are and what type of BOFF combinations and equipment they have. 90% of them lack the overall investment in making their own NPC group really good and "that" is not the fault of the game.
1. Nobody in their right mind should do Dyson ground BZ. The rewards are TRIBBLE for the time invested.
2. ->
All geared out with Rep Sets. Too bad there is no content that is worth playing that this matters.
I had to single this out as someone who loves ground / does ground more than space
You just have to enter the Dyson ground battlezone and you will realize how weak players' own ground teams are and what type of BOFF combinations and equipment they have. 90% of them lack the overall investment in making their own NPC group really good and "that" is not the fault of the game.
1. Nobody in their right mind should do Dyson ground BZ. The rewards are TRIBBLE for the time invested.
2. ->
All geared out with Rep Sets. Too bad there is no content that is worth playing that this matters.
Right, sure, cause maxing out daily dil refining in 15 minutes is a bad thing. If you really hate this game as much as you constant bitching suggests then gtfo, some of us are tired of this dumb TRIBBLE.
Woah boy. You can't cherry pick what I say in NOP PS. I love this game, and that won't change. My biggest regret was promoting the DPS power creep as back as Season 5 when people politely started to tell me to go **** myself. I should have listened because I couldn't keep up with what other people did, and didn't realize how horribly pay for advantage this game would become as a result. I have not a single space build that can do above 30K at the moment, and have no plans to unless my crazy gimmicks allow it.
Now that I've read this entire thread, I am so happy that people on here are more enlightened than they were a few years ago. I used to get yelled out of town for saying that things were broken which is where all of the "Kraust is an TRIBBLE" stuff originated.
* Kraust is really critical of certain mechanics in this game that if abused can totally break it as described in this topic. This is why Kraust speaks in the third person and enjoys ground combat, remembers a time before the DPS race where Elite STF channels were formed out of necessity and not to brag about how much better they were than others.
I had to single this out as someone who loves ground / does ground more than space
You just have to enter the Dyson ground battlezone and you will realize how weak players' own ground teams are and what type of BOFF combinations and equipment they have. 90% of them lack the overall investment in making their own NPC group really good and "that" is not the fault of the game.
1. Nobody in their right mind should do Dyson ground BZ. The rewards are TRIBBLE for the time invested.
2. ->
All geared out with Rep Sets. Too bad there is no content that is worth playing that this matters.
Right, sure, cause maxing out daily dil refining in 15 minutes is a bad thing. If you really hate this game as much as you constant bitching suggests then gtfo, some of us are tired of this dumb TRIBBLE.
Woah boy. You can't cherry pick what I say in NOP PS. I love this game, and that won't change. My biggest regret was promoting the DPS power creep as back as Season 5 when people politely started to tell me to go **** myself. I should have listened because I couldn't keep up with what other people did, and didn't realize how horribly pay for advantage this game would become as a result. I have not a single space build that can do above 30K at the moment, and have no plans to unless my crazy gimmicks allow it.
You can make a 30k ship for 1-3M EC. Here's an example. MBagel made a couple more examples at /r/stobuilds.
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
The most glaring culprit today is kemocite laced weaponry, which is enabling players to score 100k dps, which is enough dps to complete a run SOLO. Thats all well and good, and I am all for Cryptic making money by selling power, but this is way out of balance. The problem is this: When you have a player who can score that much damage, it becomes unnecessary for them join with other players who have a clue how to make a build or play the game. SO, it becomes faster and eaiser for them to join public ques where it really doesent matter what anyone else does. The 4 hapless idiots in the run with the mega 100k dps build dont even realize how terrible they are, so they think its cool for them to join public advanced ques while they can pull 800 - 2000 dps. (in a t6 ship no less) Now, when the mega kemocite/faw scimitar etc isnt around, suddenly my 20-30k (in a t5 sci without faw I might add) isnt going to be enough to pull 4 idiots through a simple ISA run, and even with 5 -thr consoles I cant open fire without the entire map focusing me down.
Its wrong of me to call these players who join advanced ques when they are not ready for them idiots, because it isnt entirely their fault. People in general are pretty dense. Cryptic has created this problem by making the rewards for normal compete rubbish, so no one has any desire to play them, and like I said, the power creep preventing them from appreciating how terrible they are.
That said, I cant even imagine how it is possible to not be able to score 1k dps, but I see it every day.
PSA: if you cant pull at least 8k dps it is impolite of you to join a public que on advanced or elite, because all you are doing is wasting other people's time, and your own.
But cryptic has created this mess, and we all know they dont have the technical acumen or creativity to clean it up, and no one will ever read this thread after it gets buried because they have effectively censored theie entire forums by masking it from google searches with this vanilla / arc garbage.
Im finished.
STO must have been your first (and if you follow through) and last MMO. Power creep is the nature of the beast for any MMO as it ages. The Devs need to give you a reason to keep playing/grinding for gear, and the only way to do that is to make better gear then the currently existing top gear in the game; or add gear that complements existing gear (thus upping DPS.)
If you can't handle that situation, stick to single player games.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I had to single this out as someone who loves ground / does ground more than space
You just have to enter the Dyson ground battlezone and you will realize how weak players' own ground teams are and what type of BOFF combinations and equipment they have. 90% of them lack the overall investment in making their own NPC group really good and "that" is not the fault of the game.
1. Nobody in their right mind should do Dyson ground BZ. The rewards are TRIBBLE for the time invested.
2. ->
All geared out with Rep Sets. Too bad there is no content that is worth playing that this matters.
Right, sure, cause maxing out daily dil refining in 15 minutes is a bad thing. If you really hate this game as much as you constant bitching suggests then gtfo, some of us are tired of this dumb TRIBBLE.
Woah boy. You can't cherry pick what I say in NOP PS. I love this game, and that won't change. My biggest regret was promoting the DPS power creep as back as Season 5 when people politely started to tell me to go **** myself. I should have listened because I couldn't keep up with what other people did, and didn't realize how horribly pay for advantage this game would become as a result. I have not a single space build that can do above 30K at the moment, and have no plans to unless my crazy gimmicks allow it.
You can make a 30k ship for 1-3M EC. Here's an example. MBagel made a couple more examples at /r/stobuilds.
This is cherry picked and requires you to have very specific traits (Biggest problem with balance right now), be a tac captain (second biggest), having the wrong spec (I speced Command/Commando for ground), ect.
Those traits require Lv 15 in crafting schools which take several months to get.
It also required a full(?) Intel AND Pilot Spec Tree.
Replication without the traits / being tac will give a very different output.
I actually run something very similar with my Olaen and do not reach 30K unless I get a very good Fleet Support. .
To summarize: If anything you have proven my initial point in that the ship build doesn't actually matter, it's the small things like Traits, Starship Masteries and Doffs that determine DPS.
This is cherry picked and requires you to have very specific traits (Biggest problem with balance right now), be a tac captain (second biggest), having the wrong spec (I speced Command/Commando for ground), ect.
Those traits require Lv 15 in crafting schools which take several months to get.
It also required a full(?) Intel AND Pilot Spec Tree.
Replication without the traits / being tac will give a very different output.
I actually run something very similar with my Olaen and do not reach 30K unless I get a very good Fleet Support. .
Yeah it does require quite a bit of effort to get those traits up. Should there be a reward though without a bit of effort in the game?
You may be right about the tac part though, though I wouldn't think that at that kind of gear, the difference would be too big vs Scis and Engs.
STO must have been your first (and if you follow through) and last MMO. Power creep is the nature of the beast for any MMO as it ages. The Devs need to give you a reason to keep playing/grinding for gear, and the only way to do that is to make better gear then the currently existing top gear in the game; or add gear that complements existing gear (thus upping DPS.)
If you can't handle that situation, stick to single player games.
Power creep is never handled the way STO handles it though. With power creep older content becomes trivial and the loot is often not desirable anymore.
With STO they increase the difficulty of older content and nerf the loot. They also don't even bother trying to balance things, which other MMOs do. For some MMOs every week's patch includes numerous balance changes. They may never achieve it (most don't) but they try. STO handles it like an asian mmo: give the players more and more power to strive for, forget about balancing it and make them want to pay for it.
STO must have been your first (and if you follow through) and last MMO. Power creep is the nature of the beast for any MMO as it ages. The Devs need to give you a reason to keep playing/grinding for gear, and the only way to do that is to make better gear then the currently existing top gear in the game; or add gear that complements existing gear (thus upping DPS.)
If you can't handle that situation, stick to single player games.
Power creep is never handled the way STO handles it though. With power creep older content becomes trivial and the loot is often not desirable anymore.
With STO they increase the difficulty of older content and nerf the loot. They also don't even bother trying to balance things, which other MMOs do. For some MMOs every week's patch includes numerous balance changes. They may never achieve it (most don't) but they try. STO handles it like an asian mmo: give the players more and more power to strive for, forget about balancing it and make them want to pay for it.
This is spot on. We rarely (if ever) see balance changes to individual abilities, or even ability remakes. This is something you would see in a typical MMO very frequently.
Singling this out maybe isn't fair, since I've seen possibly dozens of examples of similar arguments across the board here, but I'd like to add two cents.
1. Nobody in their right mind should do Dyson ground BZ. The rewards are TRIBBLE for the time invested.
I'm investing my time here for having fun. That means if I like to actually play something I do not care at all about a relative lack of rewards. So I can be of sane mind and still play Dyson Ground (I admittedly rarely do, but the same stuff is often said about ANR, and I like that one a lot).
I do understand that this thread is about balance and thus how to get competitive and I actually read your post in that sense, but the general assumption that the game is only about the numbers is wrong for most people. After all, why max out something if you do not have fun using it afterwards?
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
True, and not only them. A lot of consoles which affect two things will have synergy effects. Acc/Dmg, even if not the most-sought-after traits of the game, do that, too. My example was more of single traits and the discussion whether a linear growth means constant returns or decreasing returns.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Better person is subjective. Should I lie that players suck? Look at the OP. It spins players fault into game mechanics fault. Each player has access to everything to get 100k dps if so choose to make an effort. How can that be game mechanics fault? Should I spin a lie that it is not the players fault? Blame the game mechanics that player became lazy on making an effort of getting 100k DPS? On other threads players wanting communism/socialism by demanding more rewards for doing less effort by stealing from those who made more effort?
I am not a politician. I dont need to be politically correct. If truths hurt so much, they shouldnt post at all their lies/half truths, misinformation and spins or they should start increasing their quality of their post.
I am not a politician. I dont need to be politically correct. If truths hurt so much, they shouldnt post at all their lies/half truths, misinformation and spins or they should start increasing their quality of their post.
There is so much information out there on ship builds (some good, a lot bad). The first thing people do when playing the game is ask what they should put on their ship.
From the perspective of the majority of the player base, STO is a gear/build based game. The problem is that in any walk of life, having the best stuff doesn't make you the best... or even good!
Very rarely do you see a new player ask "how do these abilities work?", or "why does everyone slot this 2 piece set for the bonus?"
Without learning how the game works, and what does what, the gap between the good and the bad will get wider. Knowledge is power in this game, not stuff!
I am adamantly a non-min/maxer, I refuse to parse and I refuse to be parsed, I put anyone who posts a parse in chat on ignore immediately.
Preach it brother. Amen.
Its a shame Cryptic doenst allow a privacy option that would give the players the option not to be parsed. This became worse then were the disco balls in trolling arsenals. Even the whole YOUR DPS concept its a farse. Since the moment someone paints a debuff on your target it stops to be YOUR DPS.
But sadly, probably lots of devs have joined the DPS cult so nothing will be done regarding that
STO must have been your first (and if you follow through) and last MMO. Power creep is the nature of the beast for any MMO as it ages. The Devs need to give you a reason to keep playing/grinding for gear, and the only way to do that is to make better gear then the currently existing top gear in the game; or add gear that complements existing gear (thus upping DPS.)
If you can't handle that situation, stick to single player games.
Wrong. As a few others mentioned, powercreep and balance is handled in other MMOs by regular balance checks and constant comunication with the players. Here only during adjudicatorhawk's times some balance and player-dev comunication was done, but sadly he's gone. Now they just hide in 3rd party forums like the reddit forums and post here only when suits them and about trivial matters while important ones are left unaswered to keep players in-doubt.
And speaking of reason to keep playing. It was. And so was player progression. But you and other DPSers fail to see it since it wasnt vertical but horizontal progression. As in most MMOs, many players chase shiny items and love alting, not some fake/made up charts. Alting made players getting new items/sets, ships etc. while ensured gameplay options, whatever was shipbuilding or carrier choises. If you got bored on 1 toon, there were multitude of other alts to play/level or equip. Now the difference its so huge between 1 super equiped/lvled char and another not so much, even if both are lvl 60, that you just gave up on even bothering. So no ships purchase, no item sets, gear etc.
Prior DR, alting was the reason the game could suport 2 major expansions. What happened after DR when alting and horizontal progression was pretty much killed and this DPS nonsense vertical progression is been shoved into player faces. Well... check last quarter of 2014 PWE earning reports. And 2015 dont seem to be much better judging by the ammount of ships, promotions, off sales etc released...
Even in these dark times, look at when alting was only enabled during the shuttle event. For those 2-3 days, players actually bought zen to convert dil and used the marks to work on their reputation and get rep gear. The zen-dil ratio went from 220 to 199. Was one of the rare ocasions when it droped under 200. At first glance your've expected, with all that mark infusion, to be the opposite. But it wasnt. Players didnt stack/hoard if the rewards were decent. I know devs dont like players to hoard. Well... dont give them reasons to...
But as long as this company doesnt get that "tighting the TRIBBLE" doenst work for this game: botlenecking the resourses, making items exclusive / hiding them behind elites with ridiculous "challanges", disregarding any balance what-so-ever and getting the grind to ridiculous lvls, any event/promos, however nice well intended they may be, like the delta recruits or the veteran comeback promos, are futile. Players wont stay if the game wont change. The FEs are not gonna keep a long term player, but neither are the ridiculous levels of grind, imbalance and "challanges".
Nobody wants things to be given yesterday, but not in an year worth of time either. Even balance on grinding its off-the-scale, on multiple lvls. And I know some will respond with: but you dont have to... Wich is one of the most stupid things you could even hear. Its pretty much like saying: but you dont have to play the game for what you enjoy/like. And that translates pretty much "may as well not play the game after all".
It's not just the DPS'ers, it's the whales that have bottomless bank accounts. The Whales (most of them are DPS'ers), want the shiny new ship. Having something new is instant gratification, they don't have to grind for it because they have the money to buy it. Once it's obtained, they will loose interest in a month, around that time another shiny new ship will emerge.
The argument of; "any ship can do damage", is false. Science ships do not inflict damage to an NPC ship, the same way an escort can. Science ships rely on abilities that are science/technology based. Many of those abilities are easily canceled. Yet an escort only has to keep firing away at a target to inflict damage.
A counter balance to DPS can be implemented, but the whales will throw a tantrum. Thus, Cryptic will give into the demands of the whales for more DPS.
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
It's not just the DPS'ers, it's the whales that have bottomless bank accounts. The Whales (most of them are DPS'ers), want the shiny new ship. Having something new is instant gratification, they don't have to grind for it because they have the money to buy it. Once it's obtained, they will loose interest in a month, around that time another shiny new ship will emerge.
The argument of; "any ship can do damage", is false. Science ships do not inflict damage to an NPC ship, the same way an escort can. Science ships rely on abilities that are science/technology based. Many of those abilities are easily canceled. Yet an escort only has to keep firing away at a target to inflict damage.
A counter balance to DPS can be implemented, but the whales will throw a tantrum. Thus, Cryptic will give into the demands of the whales for more DPS.
Meh, the last time they did something like that they didn't revert it.... or did you forget the whining that followed when they gave Voth that reflective shield power. Well the Voth still have it...
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
Meanwhile, back in reality, PvP was all but entirely abandoned a long time ago, and hasn't been relevant, let alone a consideration of any significance where balance is concerned, for a very long while.
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
Meanwhile, back in reality, PvP was all but entirely abandoned a long time ago, and hasn't been relevant, let alone a consideration of any significance where balance is concerned, for a very long while.
Guess again. PvP'ers are alive and well and you better believe they're trying to ruin the game every chance they get just so the FEDs can be on top.
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
Meanwhile, back in reality, PvP was all but entirely abandoned a long time ago, and hasn't been relevant, let alone a consideration of any significance where balance is concerned, for a very long while.
Guess again. PvP'ers are alive and well and you better believe they're trying to ruin the game every chance they get just so the FEDs can be on top.
LOL at all those people insisting that there are diminishing returns because you get less % with each console. LOL less sto, more math lessons for you.
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
This is one of the most ridicilous posts I have read here on the forums since my ban was lifted. You sir just beat some of the TRIBBLE some of the most zealous dps cultists write on these boards.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
Seriously. Huh? What are you talking about?
Who says combat is fair? Art of war is to make the decisive move even having the best gear. I am not a min-maxer or DPS person but if someone is in war video game or reality. You try to have the best gear period.
Let me explain how Cryptic has ruined their game by making terrible design choices.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
Ironically the only true whining I see in this thread is this right here, done by yourself.
LOL at all those people insisting that there are diminishing returns because you get less % with each console. LOL less sto, more math lessons for you.
But you do. The only thing that keeps that Cat1 valuable is Cat2 or non Cat1 sources. Not much Cat 2 if your non tac.
Besides no issue there if you cannot reach the DPS ceiling. It is like debating how to get 20% damage resistance when your damage resistance isnt equal to 20 and you are very far from the ceiling of 75%.
Comments
I edited my post for some clarity. It's been a very long 43hrs, and had to deal w/ M$ A LOT today concerning O365 and ActiveSync. Forgive me.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Thanks, much better now
I am just rubbing some peoples egos especially those with sensitive egos who are they themselves disrespectful and trolls hiding themselves as "victims". Quite the opposite if I reply to the work of snipey in plasma explosion. I dont think I treated snipey disrespectful re plasma explosion nor got any of my attitude.
which put as with where these complainers/whiners data coming from? Like I keep on saying it is a two way street. You wont get an attitude from me if I didnt get an attitude from you. Nor if the those complaining put actual data. Look at this thread is actual nonsense including certain of posts. Most are ad hominem.
If the post is also respectful with actual facts, well researched, no problem nor would you see me in the threads or reply.
Or you could just be the better person.
You just have to enter the Dyson ground battlezone and you will realize how weak players' own ground teams are and what type of BOFF combinations and equipment they have. 90% of them lack the overall investment in making their own NPC group really good and "that" is not the fault of the game.
1. Nobody in their right mind should do Dyson ground BZ. The rewards are TRIBBLE for the time invested.
2. ->
All geared out with Rep Sets. Too bad there is no content that is worth playing that this matters.
Woah boy. You can't cherry pick what I say in NOP PS. I love this game, and that won't change. My biggest regret was promoting the DPS power creep as back as Season 5 when people politely started to tell me to go **** myself. I should have listened because I couldn't keep up with what other people did, and didn't realize how horribly pay for advantage this game would become as a result. I have not a single space build that can do above 30K at the moment, and have no plans to unless my crazy gimmicks allow it.
Now that I've read this entire thread, I am so happy that people on here are more enlightened than they were a few years ago. I used to get yelled out of town for saying that things were broken which is where all of the "Kraust is an TRIBBLE" stuff originated.
* Kraust is really critical of certain mechanics in this game that if abused can totally break it as described in this topic. This is why Kraust speaks in the third person and enjoys ground combat, remembers a time before the DPS race where Elite STF channels were formed out of necessity and not to brag about how much better they were than others.
You can make a 30k ship for 1-3M EC. Here's an example. MBagel made a couple more examples at /r/stobuilds.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
STO must have been your first (and if you follow through) and last MMO. Power creep is the nature of the beast for any MMO as it ages. The Devs need to give you a reason to keep playing/grinding for gear, and the only way to do that is to make better gear then the currently existing top gear in the game; or add gear that complements existing gear (thus upping DPS.)
If you can't handle that situation, stick to single player games.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
This is cherry picked and requires you to have very specific traits (Biggest problem with balance right now), be a tac captain (second biggest), having the wrong spec (I speced Command/Commando for ground), ect.
Those traits require Lv 15 in crafting schools which take several months to get.
It also required a full(?) Intel AND Pilot Spec Tree.
Replication without the traits / being tac will give a very different output.
I actually run something very similar with my Olaen and do not reach 30K unless I get a very good Fleet Support.
For hilarious giggles I suggested that beam build on the Defiant 2+ years ago (before being banned from that sub, also suggestions Plasma before Romulan Rep was released):
https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/1dplfe/wip_krausts_beamscort_10k_dps/
To summarize: If anything you have proven my initial point in that the ship build doesn't actually matter, it's the small things like Traits, Starship Masteries and Doffs that determine DPS.
Yeah it does require quite a bit of effort to get those traits up. Should there be a reward though without a bit of effort in the game?
You may be right about the tac part though, though I wouldn't think that at that kind of gear, the difference would be too big vs Scis and Engs.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Power creep is never handled the way STO handles it though. With power creep older content becomes trivial and the loot is often not desirable anymore.
With STO they increase the difficulty of older content and nerf the loot. They also don't even bother trying to balance things, which other MMOs do. For some MMOs every week's patch includes numerous balance changes. They may never achieve it (most don't) but they try. STO handles it like an asian mmo: give the players more and more power to strive for, forget about balancing it and make them want to pay for it.
This is spot on. We rarely (if ever) see balance changes to individual abilities, or even ability remakes. This is something you would see in a typical MMO very frequently.
I'm investing my time here for having fun. That means if I like to actually play something I do not care at all about a relative lack of rewards. So I can be of sane mind and still play Dyson Ground (I admittedly rarely do, but the same stuff is often said about ANR, and I like that one a lot).
I do understand that this thread is about balance and thus how to get competitive and I actually read your post in that sense, but the general assumption that the game is only about the numbers is wrong for most people. After all, why max out something if you do not have fun using it afterwards?
True, and not only them. A lot of consoles which affect two things will have synergy effects. Acc/Dmg, even if not the most-sought-after traits of the game, do that, too. My example was more of single traits and the discussion whether a linear growth means constant returns or decreasing returns.
Better person is subjective. Should I lie that players suck? Look at the OP. It spins players fault into game mechanics fault. Each player has access to everything to get 100k dps if so choose to make an effort. How can that be game mechanics fault? Should I spin a lie that it is not the players fault? Blame the game mechanics that player became lazy on making an effort of getting 100k DPS? On other threads players wanting communism/socialism by demanding more rewards for doing less effort by stealing from those who made more effort?
I am not a politician. I dont need to be politically correct. If truths hurt so much, they shouldnt post at all their lies/half truths, misinformation and spins or they should start increasing their quality of their post.
Well in light of the Nandi’s ship trait Greedy Emitters those three are invited right back in. Ya know, just for the DPS!
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
From the perspective of the majority of the player base, STO is a gear/build based game. The problem is that in any walk of life, having the best stuff doesn't make you the best... or even good!
Very rarely do you see a new player ask "how do these abilities work?", or "why does everyone slot this 2 piece set for the bonus?"
Without learning how the game works, and what does what, the gap between the good and the bad will get wider. Knowledge is power in this game, not stuff!
Its a shame Cryptic doenst allow a privacy option that would give the players the option not to be parsed. This became worse then were the disco balls in trolling arsenals. Even the whole YOUR DPS concept its a farse. Since the moment someone paints a debuff on your target it stops to be YOUR DPS.
But sadly, probably lots of devs have joined the DPS cult so nothing will be done regarding that
Wrong. As a few others mentioned, powercreep and balance is handled in other MMOs by regular balance checks and constant comunication with the players. Here only during adjudicatorhawk's times some balance and player-dev comunication was done, but sadly he's gone. Now they just hide in 3rd party forums like the reddit forums and post here only when suits them and about trivial matters while important ones are left unaswered to keep players in-doubt.
And speaking of reason to keep playing. It was. And so was player progression. But you and other DPSers fail to see it since it wasnt vertical but horizontal progression. As in most MMOs, many players chase shiny items and love alting, not some fake/made up charts. Alting made players getting new items/sets, ships etc. while ensured gameplay options, whatever was shipbuilding or carrier choises. If you got bored on 1 toon, there were multitude of other alts to play/level or equip. Now the difference its so huge between 1 super equiped/lvled char and another not so much, even if both are lvl 60, that you just gave up on even bothering. So no ships purchase, no item sets, gear etc.
Prior DR, alting was the reason the game could suport 2 major expansions. What happened after DR when alting and horizontal progression was pretty much killed and this DPS nonsense vertical progression is been shoved into player faces. Well... check last quarter of 2014 PWE earning reports. And 2015 dont seem to be much better judging by the ammount of ships, promotions, off sales etc released...
Even in these dark times, look at when alting was only enabled during the shuttle event. For those 2-3 days, players actually bought zen to convert dil and used the marks to work on their reputation and get rep gear. The zen-dil ratio went from 220 to 199. Was one of the rare ocasions when it droped under 200. At first glance your've expected, with all that mark infusion, to be the opposite. But it wasnt. Players didnt stack/hoard if the rewards were decent. I know devs dont like players to hoard. Well... dont give them reasons to...
But as long as this company doesnt get that "tighting the TRIBBLE" doenst work for this game: botlenecking the resourses, making items exclusive / hiding them behind elites with ridiculous "challanges", disregarding any balance what-so-ever and getting the grind to ridiculous lvls, any event/promos, however nice well intended they may be, like the delta recruits or the veteran comeback promos, are futile. Players wont stay if the game wont change. The FEs are not gonna keep a long term player, but neither are the ridiculous levels of grind, imbalance and "challanges".
Nobody wants things to be given yesterday, but not in an year worth of time either. Even balance on grinding its off-the-scale, on multiple lvls. And I know some will respond with: but you dont have to... Wich is one of the most stupid things you could even hear. Its pretty much like saying: but you dont have to play the game for what you enjoy/like. And that translates pretty much "may as well not play the game after all".
The argument of; "any ship can do damage", is false. Science ships do not inflict damage to an NPC ship, the same way an escort can. Science ships rely on abilities that are science/technology based. Many of those abilities are easily canceled. Yet an escort only has to keep firing away at a target to inflict damage.
A counter balance to DPS can be implemented, but the whales will throw a tantrum. Thus, Cryptic will give into the demands of the whales for more DPS.
Yeaah. As long as PvP, Player versus Player, NEVER works, I'm 100% satisfied. Hopefully, one day, the PvP aspect of this game will be completely cut off. Doing so would allow PvE to once again flourish. Yes. It would be so fantastic to have Science ships once again, because, PvP keeps Science from being on equal footing with Tactical. And then too of course we'd get our Engineers back. Yep. PvP is the Single Most Devastating blow to Star Trek Online.
Is it broke? Apply that question to any current Star Trek Online game mechanic. The answer will be: Yes. Because of PvP whiners can't stand to be outgamed in straight up level across the board PvP. If my Feddie can't win, the game must be nerfed! No Fed Win? Nerf It! Fed MUST Win ALL PvP!!! Don't??? WAAAAAAA!!!!!! Nerf Nerf Nerf!!!!!!!
My character Tsin'xing
Meanwhile, back in reality, PvP was all but entirely abandoned a long time ago, and hasn't been relevant, let alone a consideration of any significance where balance is concerned, for a very long while.
Guess again. PvP'ers are alive and well and you better believe they're trying to ruin the game every chance they get just so the FEDs can be on top.
Lol.
This is one of the most ridicilous posts I have read here on the forums since my ban was lifted. You sir just beat some of the TRIBBLE some of the most zealous dps cultists write on these boards.
Seriously. Huh? What are you talking about?
Who says combat is fair? Art of war is to make the decisive move even having the best gear. I am not a min-maxer or DPS person but if someone is in war video game or reality. You try to have the best gear period.
Ironically the only true whining I see in this thread is this right here, done by yourself.
But you do. The only thing that keeps that Cat1 valuable is Cat2 or non Cat1 sources. Not much Cat 2 if your non tac.
Besides no issue there if you cannot reach the DPS ceiling. It is like debating how to get 20% damage resistance when your damage resistance isnt equal to 20 and you are very far from the ceiling of 75%.
I believe you misunderstood. Someone was blaming the PvPers for nerfs. As if PvPers have had any influence in the game in the last 3 years.