Apples to Oranges, not even remotely a valid comparison.
ALL of the games you mentioned were designed from the ground up as PvP games, they cater to an "entirely different" demographic than STO and MMORPG's in general do.
The problem with STO is that its too casual and has no real genuine endgame content to speak of, no raids or anything.
STO was marketed from well before launch and after launch as being a game with a heavy PvP emphasis (not sole or even primary emphasis, mind you) - hence all of the talk about the KDF being "the PvP faction" and having nearly all of it's level progression exclusively through PvP.
But yes - you're totally right. STO doesn't have an endgame. Which is why, if they had half a mind, they would see PvP as an easy, quick, and excellent choice for a chunk of endgame content. Regardless of whether it's PvE or PvP, STO desperately needs some form of endgame content that isn't just infinitely repeating a few STFs for rep marks. Raids, battle zones/grounds, something. Anything.
I only say 1/3 because I'm rounding, for the sake of the argument, to give perspective. To make it a "full" 33%, that would only require an extra 3 seconds. Is that "hyperbole" or just rounding for sake of ease? Argue your point, not semantics.
Now, when you start calling it "out of hand" is a purely subjective. I personally feel that if you can eliminate almost 30% of the incoming damage, that's unnecessary, overpowered, and is just spoon feeding players. NPCs aren't doing that much as it is - letting you not even take damage is just puzzling; what's the logic behind being literally invincible?
And, come on now - this is a video game. You don't need to be bragging about degrees and such :rolleyes: That kind of talk is just unnecessary.
3 seconds can mean win or loss in games of this sort. Semantics is about the meaning of words; it is anything BUT irrelevant, but has nothing to do with what I've said.
So you admit that your view is subjective, and that you're expressing a personal preference. But you didn't answer the questions. How much is too much? For you. How much would be acceptable? For you. Why should your preference be imposed on other players?
Tell drum that; he brought up the question which I simply answered. And btw, drum, someone using the name "Knights Templar" ought to have more civility (unless they're just using it because they think it sounds "cool" or or the like).
What is to prevent pvpers from, right now, organizing matches or tournaments with whatever rules they desire.
When it is repeatedly said "pvp is dead pvp is dead" This really means that the steady flow of baby seals into kerrat and the queues has dried up. So there are less clubbing opportunities.
If there was some compelling reason to pvp I would do it. I enjoyed it briefly about a year and a half ago. It gets tired very quickly, however. 15-0 one way or the other, or 35 minutes of flying in circles.
I would be motivated to pvp by an ingame leaderboard to climb and create matches of similarly ranked people. I have no problem with the elitism inherent to that system.
Like it or not the fact of the game is that it is mostly pve and we will be facing ever more bloated sacks of hp in the enemies. Whine and cry all you like it is not going to change. And anything that makes cutting through these bags more tedious just pisses everyone off.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
3 seconds can mean win or loss in games of this sort. Semantics is about the meaning of words; it is anything BUT irrelevant, but has nothing to do with what I've said.
So you admit that your view is subjective, and that you're expressing a personal preference. But you didn't answer the questions. How much is too much? For you. How much would be acceptable? For you. Why should your preference be imposed on other players?
I think it's pretty clear that I already feel that the amount of time you can get is already enough. Even if it's not continuous (in a row), if you can totally immune to damage for 4-5 seconds every 20 seconds, that's a little outrageous.
What I've yet to see anyone say is why they think that much immunity/godmode is justified. Are NPCs posing that much of a threat, by putting out damage, that you can't mitigate it, so that you need to become totally immune to it?
Why should my "preference" be "imposed" on others? I'm not calling for anything to be "imposed" on others, my suggested changes maintain the effect, while still offering the (small) chance of still taking damage. Even still, I don't see how this can't be considered a massive game changer to people - you are literally immune to the 1 thing that NPCs to do you, for a significant chunk of time.
Like in the CCA - the entire mission is based around doing damage to the Entity, and then entire not shooting at it during the "build up" periods to avoid powering up the shockwave/shooting Tholians instead or moving out of range for the shockwave. Now, people with immunities can just park themselves at whatever their optimal distance is, keep pumping away at it, and just pop and immunity for whenever the Entity does it's blast. That completely defeats and negates the challenges of that mission.
What is to prevent pvpers from, right now, organizing matches or tournaments with whatever rules they desire.
When it is repeatedly said "pvp is dead pvp is dead" This really means that the steady flow of baby seals into kerrat and the queues has dried up. So there are less clubbing opportunities.
If there was some compelling reason to pvp I would do it. I enjoyed it briefly about a year and a half ago. It gets tired very quickly, however. 15-0 one way or the other, or 35 minutes of flying in circles.
I would be motivated to pvp by an ingame leaderboard to climb and create matches of similarly ranked people. I have no problem with the elitism inherent to that system.
It has been said, time and time again, that roflstomping noobs is NOT what most PvPers want. Why do (most) people PvP? For the challenge. Stomping noobs is not a challenge. Yeah, of course you get those guys that like doing that - but how is that any different than in PvE? You've got trolls and noob baiters there, too.
Most of us hate 15-0, and don't even like 15-7. The most fun comes from 15-14 matches. Just like in PvE - why do high DPS and premade teams (either from Fleets, channels, or friends lists) queue up for Advanced Borg STFs? It's (probably) not for the Marks, most people likely have thousands of those sitting around; it's for the added challenge.
We do run our own private matches and tournaments - just yesterday, I participated in a few "T5U, no Iconian Rep" matches myself.
And again, we do have our own leaderboard, developed by @mancom. We use that all the time to help even out teams and matchmaking.
We do run our own private matches and tournaments - just yesterday, I participated in a few "T5U, no Iconian Rep" matches myself.
And again, we do have our own leaderboard, developed by @mancom. We use that all the time to help even out teams and matchmaking.
A private leaderboard would not interest me as it is necessarily controlled by a clique of players. Also this seems to require too much social interaction. I am working on being able to at least type a few words in group chats from time to time (not in this game) but much more than that is right out for me. Approaching a very closed and networked group is just way too daunting. Which is why it would have to be an official ingame leaderboard/matchmaking system.
I suggested a week ago or so that the next season could be a pvp season with the breakdown of the alliance after the war is over. To me this is the most compelling story available from a writers standpoint. So I don't hate pvp. I mean, I played bgo religiously for 2 years before returning full time to STO. It's just very obvious that pvp and pve do not mesh well in this game - not anymore.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
3 seconds can mean win or loss in games of this sort. Semantics is about the meaning of words; it is anything BUT irrelevant, but has nothing to do with what I've said.
So you admit that your view is subjective, and that you're expressing a personal preference. But you didn't answer the questions. How much is too much? For you. How much would be acceptable? For you. Why should your preference be imposed on other players?
Tell drum that; he brought up the question which I simply answered. And btw, drum, someone using the name "Knights Templar" ought to have more civility (unless they're just using it because they think it sounds "cool" or or the like).
What's uncivil is your appeal to your own (arrogance) authority to discount someone's ideas just because they don't have merit in your own opinion. Doesn't have anything to do with "logic" it has to do with you sounding like a big boy and proving to yourself that you're the smartest d-bag on the internet.
Congratulations. Nobody cares.
If you don't think he has a point? Great! Life goes on. What's not right (and continues to be reinforced over and over again) is the silencing other by shaming thru your continued appeals to YOUR authority - because god knows everyone OWES you respect because *gasp* you know some big words.
It's no different from the other rabbid posters who are discounting all arguments because for some reason they hate PvP'rs.
Sad you didn't get enough intelligence with all that wonderful "education" that you keep bragging about to know that.
Seriously, though, things started getting ugly when the OP started referring to PvE-ers wanting "Space Barbie Godmode," and others started piling on as to how stupid PvE-ers are, don't know how to defend themselves without these alleged 'godmode' abilities, and yada, yada, yada. The usual, really.
Ok , then here's a fair question :
Seeing that we're not about to jump to the next Mk level (when will that jump take place anyway ?) , and thus we can accept that the power / defense crep will just keep on coming , when (at what %) will the idea of God Mode will become ..... offensive to PVE players (from a DPS-er POV) ?
If on one hand 28-33% Immunity is too little / not worth mentioning , but on the other hand we're just part way there , at what % will a PVE-er say ... "yeah , this is not fun" ?
... see , for me it started to be not fun when I could get away with not stacking 3-4 Neutronium's in their rightful place ... , but as I look at some of the DPS builds , I guess that where my fun stopped , yours started . After all , why need defense consoles when defense becomes more and more a non-issue for the shoot'em-fast-faster-fastest crowd ...
I suggested a week ago or so that the next season could be a pvp season with the breakdown of the alliance after the war is over.
The Devs themselves have consistently told us that "next Season" would be the "season of PvP!", starting all the way back with Season 4 (the first supposed "Season of PvP!"). :P
Each Season they say it will be the "next" one, and whenever they're called out or asked about it, they either conveniently forget the said that or just ignore the question outright.
Not only immunity goes out of control but also impulse flying speed "cant fly faster than speed of light without warp drive" and defence going way to high even cruiser can hit 80% non buffed defence rate im this is BS.
I think it's pretty clear that I already feel that the amount of time you can get is already enough. Even if it's not continuous (in a row), if you can totally immune to damage for 4-5 seconds every 20 seconds, that's a little outrageous.
What I've yet to see anyone say is why they think that much immunity/godmode is justified. Are NPCs posing that much of a threat, by putting out damage, that you can't mitigate it, so that you need to become totally immune to it?
Why should my "preference" be "imposed" on others? I'm not calling for anything to be "imposed" on others, my suggested changes maintain the effect, while still offering the (small) chance of still taking damage. Even still, I don't see how this can't be considered a massive game changer to people - you are literally immune to the 1 thing that NPCs to do you, for a significant chunk of time.
Like in the CCA - the entire mission is based around doing damage to the Entity, and then entire not shooting at it during the "build up" periods to avoid powering up the shockwave/shooting Tholians instead or moving out of range for the shockwave. Now, people with immunities can just park themselves at whatever their optimal distance is, keep pumping away at it, and just pop and immunity for whenever the Entity does it's blast. That completely defeats and negates the challenges of that mission.
This is at least the second time you have stated explicitly or implied that NPCs do nothing but damage. I don't mean to be rude (this is a genuine question), but have you played the Delta Rising episodes? I ask because the NPCs in those missions most certainly do use debuffs and snares and the like. And, fwiw, it's not limited to DR missions. Ever gone to Yan Nebula to fight the Star Empire and gotten snagged by a Mogai's tractor mines? What about the ordinary Fleet Alert (Klingon or Fed) where you fight NPCs that belch warp plasma all over you? Sure, that causes damage, but the damage bit is (usually) negligible compared to the debuff to movement and turn. What about those viscous bubbles the Undine like to toss at you?
As for the Crystalline Entity, it's nowhere near as deadly as it used to be. It's more than possible to sit right in front of it when the shockwave hits and still have more than 50% hull even without tossing any "immunities" or "resistances" into the mix. Emergency Power to Shields is pretty helpful in this situation, but even without it, the likelihood of getting vaped by the shockwave is less than what it once was.
What's uncivil is your appeal to your own (arrogance) authority to discount someone's ideas just because they don't have merit in your own opinion. Doesn't have anything to do with "logic" it has to do with you sounding like a big boy and proving to yourself that you're the smartest d-bag on the internet.
Congratulations. Nobody cares.
If you don't think he has a point? Great! Life goes on. What's not right (and continues to be reinforced over and over again) is the silencing other by shaming thru your continued appeals to YOUR authority - because god knows everyone OWES you respect because *gasp* you know some big words.
It's no different from the other rabbid posters who are discounting all arguments because for some reason they hate PvP'rs.
Sad you didn't get enough intelligence with all that wonderful "education" that you keep bragging about to know that.
"Arrogance" refers to unmerited pride. Pride in itself is not arrogance, nor is it a vice (I don't care what some questionable translations of ancient and supposedly "sacred" texts have to say about it). Conceit, egotism, arrogance, yes, those are excesses. Pride is a virtue.
Yes, I'm proud of my accomplishments. I'm proud that I know how to argue (or debate, when the situation warrants, although I prefer to avoid Rhetoric as much as possible).
I'm not appealing to my own authority. I'm appealing to the rules of inference. They're not terribly obscure, and in this age of Google and Bing and so on, you can very easily find the information to improve your knowledge of the discipline. I'm not discounting his idea because I don't find it meritorious. I'm discounting it because he has yet to provide any premises which support it. It has so far been the same rehashed claims already made, and insistence that the burden of proof is on those who disagree. Hold up here. You see something you want changed and few other people seem to agree, and ask you why you think it needs to be changed, and you reply by telling me I have to show why it doesn't need to be changed? No. Again, that's not how it's done. And this is STILL not about "big words" and "formats" and so on. The burden of proof is not on those who don't see any need for change; the burden of proof is on those who claim that there is such a need. That's the way things work (for the most part), and how they should work.
If I don't think he has a point, I am still entitled to state as much and point out that he hasn't offered a logical argument to support his contention, nor any empirical evidence which supports it, either. If I'm trying to understand his point, I am still entitled to request that he give me reasons to justify it. I have seen no such reasons, nor even an attempt at a solution apart from "make it shorter" or "get rid of it entirely." I asked for what duration would not be considered "out-of-hand" by him. He didn't give me any concrete answer, but simply reasserted his claim from the beginning of the thread, which amounts to "what is now is too long." I get that he thinks the current duration is too long. That's the whole subject of the very thread. Repeating it without any premises supporting it is Petitio Principii (again, Google is your friend, but I'll give you an English name applied to the same fallacy: Begging the Question -- I'm betting that doesn't make it any plainer in meaning to you than the Latin name, so again, Google, because your limited vocabulary is not my problem, and your hubris in accosting someone who obviously knows what she's talking about by mocking her for knowing something is rather inane and smells like anti-intellectualism).
You should come at EXPO tomorrow, I'll be there a second time! I may even offer you a drink!
Only PvP friends though. Leave the known PvE faces grieving against us in a forum lol.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
Seeing that we're not about to jump to the next Mk level (when will that jump take place anyway ?) , and thus we can accept that the power / defense crep will just keep on coming , when (at what %) will the idea of God Mode will become ..... offensive to PVE players (from a DPS-er POV) ?
As I said earlier, judging by the large public crowds that keep lamenting the alleged dificulty of Advanced queues, I'd say it will take a while ere everyone will find the difficulty of Advanced queues 'offensive' (in the sense of 'insultingly easy').
... see , for me it started to be not fun when I could get away with not stacking 3-4 Neutronium's in their rightful place ...
Stacking 3-4 Neutroniums is a horribad idea to begin with, no offense, because of steep diminishing returns.
, but as I look at some of the DPS builds , I guess that where my fun stopped , yours started . After all , why need defense consoles when defense becomes more and more a non-issue for the shoot'em-fast-faster-fastest crowd ...
You're right, Jim, but not as you know it. Because DPS-tanking (= tanking by killing everything fast) is, indeed, superior to having to take a huge pounding because of low DPS, for which you'd then have to compensate with Armor consoles.
Also, there's the illusion that PvE is a breeze. It usually is, when in a good team and/or run from a good channel. Try, for example, pugging gga, though, and you'll soon notice 'easy' becomes 'annoyingly tough.'
To get back on those alleged godmode immunities, these are largely non-existent in practical PvE play. Sure, "Rock 'N Roll" probably saved my bacon a few times in isa, but you're not gonna set any DPS records with it (the two are related, of course: I usually prefer not to run). And, because of Intel Fleet and Flanking, anyone I know uses Intel for Primary. (Ironically, Pilot as Primary could potentially yield interesting results, like combining Form Up with Wing Man; but it requires some premade coordination)
And I just found out my retro-rockets don't work when the Voth got their nasty GW thingy on you.
In fact, in PvE, I never even experienced any of these small immunities as being 'totally out of control.' Probably because they aren't.
"Arrogance" refers to unmerited pride. Pride in itself is not arrogance, nor is it a vice (I don't care what some questionable translations of ancient and supposedly "sacred" texts have to say about it). Conceit, egotism, arrogance, yes, those are excesses. Pride is a virtue.
O_o
Well, that pretty much explains everything right there.
If you need to be immune for one fourth of the time in any event you have a problem. In PvP immunities can save you in the nick of time, but they shouldn't have a creepy duration, hence why we have too many.
If you say you need immunities in PvE... what are those NPCs doing to you again? :rolleyes:
Oh wait I have it!
Already brushing off the dust
You hear my voice, you hear that sound
Like thunder gonna shake the ground
You held me down, but I got up
Get ready 'cause I've had enough
I see it all, I see it now
I got the eye of the tiger, a fighter, dancing through the fire
'Cause I am a champion and you're gonna hear me roar!
Louder, louder than a lion
'Cause I am a champion and you're gonna hear me roar!
This piece of text taken from Katy Perry's "Roar" kinda explains the relation between a PvPer and, to quote Vex, low pvers.
low pvers =/= pvers.
the first ones are those who like being keyboard warriors against PvPers for... uh tell me again why I didn't get it.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
In fact, in PvE, I never even experienced any of these small immunities as being 'totally out of control.' And, as long as I continue to win, I don't care.
This piece of text taken from Katy Perry's "Roar" kinda explains the relation between a PvPer and, to quote Vex, low pvers.
well, I guess this is one reason to not hate being old.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
Not doing your arguments any favors there, Sunny Jim.
By the way, how many circles do you run your pilot ship around in to get that full twenty seconds OP claims?
Zactly! Assuming you were referring to Thick of It, yeah, you'd have to make some silly manoeuvres to make that kick in on a per-minute rotation (pun intended).
Now these are the times where I wish Ionic Turbulence and Suppression didn't get nerfed.
Iconian NPCs spamming IT3 that kept chain stunning everyone in the cloud. First it was legit because "lol npcs, who cares", it got nerfed and the outcry started.
Suppression was fixed and nerfed to even normal stats (do you know that I was the first one to discover it was not debuffing accuracy? Now you do :P ). Outcry started.
Iconian NPCs were given Ionic and Suppression. Immediately legit powers. I just love the hypocrisy of it.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
You wonder why people are hostile towards you? Really?
"Cannot fight against a human being". Man, take that attitude and shove it so far up your TRIBBLE your eyeballs pop out. THAT is why we hate you. Because you think your kind of fun is superior, your skills are superior, your preferences for the game and your priorities for how it should be built are superior, and that things should be changed for your benefit and your benefit alone.
What part of we COULD play competitive PvP if we wanted to do you not understand? What part of the fact that many if not most of us find that level of obsessive minimaxing to be a pointless and obnoxious pain in the TRIBBLE do you fail to understand? It's not our idea of a good time, and that does NOT make us any lesser than you.
What we want is to experience stories, immerse ourselves in the setting, and play the hero. It's entertainment for us, and for you it's a sport. We don't WANT to play it as a ******ned sport, can you wrap your head around that for once? We would find playing it that way to be frustrating and pointless and unrewarding, and find the competitive attitude required to enjoy PvP to be obnoxious and counter to the spirit of cooperative entertainment.
We as PvE players want to COOPERATE with our fellow gamers so we ALL have a good time and we all win. In the PvE game all get to be heroes and win for a change, when real life is often so stressful and harsh. We don't WANT to destroy other players or make them fail, we want to win TOGETHER with them. We get to beat up on enemies without hurting any human person's feelings or ruining anyone else's good time. We get to have fun together where nobody has to suffer frustration and disappointment. The real world is brutally competitive, we want something else from our gaming time.
You, though, think PvP is for the real players and everyone else only does it because they can't cut it. You think that taking things away from PvE players is ok because we're just losers who can't make the cut in the competitive league. Your head is so far up your own TRIBBLE you have to open your mouth to be able to see. The world, and the game, does NOT revolve around you.
If you don't like something being used against you in PvP, ask to have it banned FROM PVP and from PvP ALONE. When you want it nerfed for everyone, you're hurting everyone else and taking something away from them to suit your needs at the expense of others. It's incredibly selfish behavior and it makes those you have so selfishly caused inconvenience to to hate your self-centered TRIBBLE. You have no respect for PvE players and what we want doesn't count in your little self-centered world, because to you we're just the scrubs that can't compete. To you we're just whining, because our needs as PvE players are not considered of any value. You don't consider PvE a valid and worthy way to play the game, you consider it a trash collection of rejects who have failed PvP.
Your arrogance, condescension, self-centeredness, and refusal to respect the feelings and wishes of other players, ones you have judged to be inferior second class gamers in the shadow of your elite group, is why we hate you. We hate you because you're obnoxious and your attitude is toxic.
Please go away.
This!
This is beautiful and if one would pause to think about it instead of the normal snap trigger animosity any contradicting post generates an understanding would be had.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Unless it invalidates an existing standard technology in constant use, then it is just lazy copy pasting of the tired old WoW trilogy Mage, Fighter, Thief.
Which do you think Cryptic has done?
For example:
What is an Iconian ship deprived of all it's continuous sci spam?
Unless it invalidates an existing standard technology in constant use, then it is just lazy copy pasting of the tired old WoW trilogy Mage, Fighter, Thief.
Which do you think Cryptic has done?
I really don't get your crusade against science. As someone with half science characters I find it offensive personally. I don't see why each character must be tac to you. science is endangered already. One more nerf to part gens as pvp wants and it will no longer be viable.
You don't like tyken or GW. How about repulsors/tractors. I think I saw those once in the show. I also saw quite a lot of bounce the graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish - - Set up a neutrino field inside a can of peas. Hold on to Geordi's visor and sing into Data's knee. Thanks Voltaire for the best fansong ever.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Somebody, someday, will have to explain me why PvErs dislike PvPers. All the elitism I see comes, as far as I see it, from those who cannot fight against a human being and grieve over those who can.
I really don't get your crusade against science. As someone with half science characters I find it offensive personally. I don't see why each character must be tac to you. science is endangered already. One more nerf to part gens as pvp wants and it will no longer be viable.
Because, for some, its Stop Liking What I Don't Like Online.
Comments
GCDs are the only thing maintaining any semblance of balance - otherwise you'd be able to chain Offensive abilities with no downtime.
(Though, to be fair, I do agree that Torps/Torp Spread can be lackluster in some comparisons)
STO was marketed from well before launch and after launch as being a game with a heavy PvP emphasis (not sole or even primary emphasis, mind you) - hence all of the talk about the KDF being "the PvP faction" and having nearly all of it's level progression exclusively through PvP.
But yes - you're totally right. STO doesn't have an endgame. Which is why, if they had half a mind, they would see PvP as an easy, quick, and excellent choice for a chunk of endgame content. Regardless of whether it's PvE or PvP, STO desperately needs some form of endgame content that isn't just infinitely repeating a few STFs for rep marks. Raids, battle zones/grounds, something. Anything.
3 seconds can mean win or loss in games of this sort. Semantics is about the meaning of words; it is anything BUT irrelevant, but has nothing to do with what I've said.
So you admit that your view is subjective, and that you're expressing a personal preference. But you didn't answer the questions. How much is too much? For you. How much would be acceptable? For you. Why should your preference be imposed on other players?
Tell drum that; he brought up the question which I simply answered. And btw, drum, someone using the name "Knights Templar" ought to have more civility (unless they're just using it because they think it sounds "cool" or or the like).
What is to prevent pvpers from, right now, organizing matches or tournaments with whatever rules they desire.
When it is repeatedly said "pvp is dead pvp is dead" This really means that the steady flow of baby seals into kerrat and the queues has dried up. So there are less clubbing opportunities.
If there was some compelling reason to pvp I would do it. I enjoyed it briefly about a year and a half ago. It gets tired very quickly, however. 15-0 one way or the other, or 35 minutes of flying in circles.
I would be motivated to pvp by an ingame leaderboard to climb and create matches of similarly ranked people. I have no problem with the elitism inherent to that system.
Like it or not the fact of the game is that it is mostly pve and we will be facing ever more bloated sacks of hp in the enemies. Whine and cry all you like it is not going to change. And anything that makes cutting through these bags more tedious just pisses everyone off.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I think it's pretty clear that I already feel that the amount of time you can get is already enough. Even if it's not continuous (in a row), if you can totally immune to damage for 4-5 seconds every 20 seconds, that's a little outrageous.
What I've yet to see anyone say is why they think that much immunity/godmode is justified. Are NPCs posing that much of a threat, by putting out damage, that you can't mitigate it, so that you need to become totally immune to it?
Why should my "preference" be "imposed" on others? I'm not calling for anything to be "imposed" on others, my suggested changes maintain the effect, while still offering the (small) chance of still taking damage. Even still, I don't see how this can't be considered a massive game changer to people - you are literally immune to the 1 thing that NPCs to do you, for a significant chunk of time.
Like in the CCA - the entire mission is based around doing damage to the Entity, and then entire not shooting at it during the "build up" periods to avoid powering up the shockwave/shooting Tholians instead or moving out of range for the shockwave. Now, people with immunities can just park themselves at whatever their optimal distance is, keep pumping away at it, and just pop and immunity for whenever the Entity does it's blast. That completely defeats and negates the challenges of that mission.
It has been said, time and time again, that roflstomping noobs is NOT what most PvPers want. Why do (most) people PvP? For the challenge. Stomping noobs is not a challenge. Yeah, of course you get those guys that like doing that - but how is that any different than in PvE? You've got trolls and noob baiters there, too.
Most of us hate 15-0, and don't even like 15-7. The most fun comes from 15-14 matches. Just like in PvE - why do high DPS and premade teams (either from Fleets, channels, or friends lists) queue up for Advanced Borg STFs? It's (probably) not for the Marks, most people likely have thousands of those sitting around; it's for the added challenge.
We do run our own private matches and tournaments - just yesterday, I participated in a few "T5U, no Iconian Rep" matches myself.
And again, we do have our own leaderboard, developed by @mancom. We use that all the time to help even out teams and matchmaking.
A private leaderboard would not interest me as it is necessarily controlled by a clique of players. Also this seems to require too much social interaction. I am working on being able to at least type a few words in group chats from time to time (not in this game) but much more than that is right out for me. Approaching a very closed and networked group is just way too daunting. Which is why it would have to be an official ingame leaderboard/matchmaking system.
I suggested a week ago or so that the next season could be a pvp season with the breakdown of the alliance after the war is over. To me this is the most compelling story available from a writers standpoint. So I don't hate pvp. I mean, I played bgo religiously for 2 years before returning full time to STO. It's just very obvious that pvp and pve do not mesh well in this game - not anymore.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
What's uncivil is your appeal to your own (arrogance) authority to discount someone's ideas just because they don't have merit in your own opinion. Doesn't have anything to do with "logic" it has to do with you sounding like a big boy and proving to yourself that you're the smartest d-bag on the internet.
Congratulations. Nobody cares.
If you don't think he has a point? Great! Life goes on. What's not right (and continues to be reinforced over and over again) is the silencing other by shaming thru your continued appeals to YOUR authority - because god knows everyone OWES you respect because *gasp* you know some big words.
It's no different from the other rabbid posters who are discounting all arguments because for some reason they hate PvP'rs.
Sad you didn't get enough intelligence with all that wonderful "education" that you keep bragging about to know that.
Ok , then here's a fair question :
Seeing that we're not about to jump to the next Mk level (when will that jump take place anyway ?) , and thus we can accept that the power / defense crep will just keep on coming , when (at what %) will the idea of God Mode will become ..... offensive to PVE players (from a DPS-er POV) ?
If on one hand 28-33% Immunity is too little / not worth mentioning , but on the other hand we're just part way there , at what % will a PVE-er say ... "yeah , this is not fun" ?
... see , for me it started to be not fun when I could get away with not stacking 3-4 Neutronium's in their rightful place ... , but as I look at some of the DPS builds , I guess that where my fun stopped , yours started . After all , why need defense consoles when defense becomes more and more a non-issue for the shoot'em-fast-faster-fastest crowd ...
The Devs themselves have consistently told us that "next Season" would be the "season of PvP!", starting all the way back with Season 4 (the first supposed "Season of PvP!"). :P
Each Season they say it will be the "next" one, and whenever they're called out or asked about it, they either conveniently forget the said that or just ignore the question outright.
This is at least the second time you have stated explicitly or implied that NPCs do nothing but damage. I don't mean to be rude (this is a genuine question), but have you played the Delta Rising episodes? I ask because the NPCs in those missions most certainly do use debuffs and snares and the like. And, fwiw, it's not limited to DR missions. Ever gone to Yan Nebula to fight the Star Empire and gotten snagged by a Mogai's tractor mines? What about the ordinary Fleet Alert (Klingon or Fed) where you fight NPCs that belch warp plasma all over you? Sure, that causes damage, but the damage bit is (usually) negligible compared to the debuff to movement and turn. What about those viscous bubbles the Undine like to toss at you?
As for the Crystalline Entity, it's nowhere near as deadly as it used to be. It's more than possible to sit right in front of it when the shockwave hits and still have more than 50% hull even without tossing any "immunities" or "resistances" into the mix. Emergency Power to Shields is pretty helpful in this situation, but even without it, the likelihood of getting vaped by the shockwave is less than what it once was.
"Arrogance" refers to unmerited pride. Pride in itself is not arrogance, nor is it a vice (I don't care what some questionable translations of ancient and supposedly "sacred" texts have to say about it). Conceit, egotism, arrogance, yes, those are excesses. Pride is a virtue.
Yes, I'm proud of my accomplishments. I'm proud that I know how to argue (or debate, when the situation warrants, although I prefer to avoid Rhetoric as much as possible).
I'm not appealing to my own authority. I'm appealing to the rules of inference. They're not terribly obscure, and in this age of Google and Bing and so on, you can very easily find the information to improve your knowledge of the discipline. I'm not discounting his idea because I don't find it meritorious. I'm discounting it because he has yet to provide any premises which support it. It has so far been the same rehashed claims already made, and insistence that the burden of proof is on those who disagree. Hold up here. You see something you want changed and few other people seem to agree, and ask you why you think it needs to be changed, and you reply by telling me I have to show why it doesn't need to be changed? No. Again, that's not how it's done. And this is STILL not about "big words" and "formats" and so on. The burden of proof is not on those who don't see any need for change; the burden of proof is on those who claim that there is such a need. That's the way things work (for the most part), and how they should work.
If I don't think he has a point, I am still entitled to state as much and point out that he hasn't offered a logical argument to support his contention, nor any empirical evidence which supports it, either. If I'm trying to understand his point, I am still entitled to request that he give me reasons to justify it. I have seen no such reasons, nor even an attempt at a solution apart from "make it shorter" or "get rid of it entirely." I asked for what duration would not be considered "out-of-hand" by him. He didn't give me any concrete answer, but simply reasserted his claim from the beginning of the thread, which amounts to "what is now is too long." I get that he thinks the current duration is too long. That's the whole subject of the very thread. Repeating it without any premises supporting it is Petitio Principii (again, Google is your friend, but I'll give you an English name applied to the same fallacy: Begging the Question -- I'm betting that doesn't make it any plainer in meaning to you than the Latin name, so again, Google, because your limited vocabulary is not my problem, and your hubris in accosting someone who obviously knows what she's talking about by mocking her for knowing something is rather inane and smells like anti-intellectualism).
Oh, and fwiw, I'm not a big boy. I'm a woman.
Only PvP friends though. Leave the known PvE faces grieving against us in a forum lol.
As I said earlier, judging by the large public crowds that keep lamenting the alleged dificulty of Advanced queues, I'd say it will take a while ere everyone will find the difficulty of Advanced queues 'offensive' (in the sense of 'insultingly easy').
Stacking 3-4 Neutroniums is a horribad idea to begin with, no offense, because of steep diminishing returns.
You're right, Jim, but not as you know it.
Also, there's the illusion that PvE is a breeze. It usually is, when in a good team and/or run from a good channel. Try, for example, pugging gga, though, and you'll soon notice 'easy' becomes 'annoyingly tough.'
To get back on those alleged godmode immunities, these are largely non-existent in practical PvE play. Sure, "Rock 'N Roll" probably saved my bacon a few times in isa, but you're not gonna set any DPS records with it (the two are related, of course: I usually prefer not to run). And, because of Intel Fleet and Flanking, anyone I know uses Intel for Primary. (Ironically, Pilot as Primary could potentially yield interesting results, like combining Form Up with Wing Man; but it requires some premade coordination)
And I just found out my retro-rockets don't work when the Voth got their nasty GW thingy on you.
In fact, in PvE, I never even experienced any of these small immunities as being 'totally out of control.' Probably because they aren't.
O_o
Well, that pretty much explains everything right there.
Sad.
If you say you need immunities in PvE... what are those NPCs doing to you again? :rolleyes:
Oh wait I have it!
This piece of text taken from Katy Perry's "Roar" kinda explains the relation between a PvPer and, to quote Vex, low pvers.
low pvers =/= pvers.
the first ones are those who like being keyboard warriors against PvPers for... uh tell me again why I didn't get it.
Engineering is a valid profession that belongs in a Sci Fi setting.
Now so much Magic.
well, I guess this is one reason to not hate being old.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
When you have to resort to changing my words, then you know you ran out of arguments. :P
Well played dude, touch
Not doing your arguments any favors there, Sunny Jim.
By the way, how many circles do you run your pilot ship around in to get that full twenty seconds OP claims?
Zactly!
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
Iconian NPCs spamming IT3 that kept chain stunning everyone in the cloud. First it was legit because "lol npcs, who cares", it got nerfed and the outcry started.
Suppression was fixed and nerfed to even normal stats (do you know that I was the first one to discover it was not debuffing accuracy? Now you do :P ). Outcry started.
Iconian NPCs were given Ionic and Suppression. Immediately legit powers. I just love the hypocrisy of it.
This!
This is beautiful and if one would pause to think about it instead of the normal snap trigger animosity any contradicting post generates an understanding would be had.
Unless it invalidates an existing standard technology in constant use, then it is just lazy copy pasting of the tired old WoW trilogy Mage, Fighter, Thief.
Which do you think Cryptic has done?
For example:
What is an Iconian ship deprived of all it's continuous sci spam?
Answer: A plucked chicken.
I like chicken.
I really don't get your crusade against science. As someone with half science characters I find it offensive personally. I don't see why each character must be tac to you. science is endangered already. One more nerf to part gens as pvp wants and it will no longer be viable.
You don't like tyken or GW. How about repulsors/tractors. I think I saw those once in the show. I also saw quite a lot of bounce the graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish - - Set up a neutrino field inside a can of peas. Hold on to Geordi's visor and sing into Data's knee. Thanks Voltaire for the best fansong ever.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Elitism:
Then refusal to justify the blanket claim of superiority:
In spite of the fact that it would simply take 5 minutes to show it's justified confidence, not unjustified arrogance.
Because, for some, its Stop Liking What I Don't Like Online.
So not only religiously monolithic in your opinions but no sense of humor either? Man I'm learning so much about y'all.
None of it is endearing, either.