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Galaxy class

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  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    ships like the defiant and miranda don't strike me as craft that would require a rank of captain for the commanding officer. any command track lt commander would be fit to be it's skipper. these kind of ships will only ever be conducting short range missions, inside of federation territory, and probably micromanaged by the local admiral in charge of the sector. dax and worf were the defiant's skippers all the time. they don't need a tested diplomat, they don't need someone who has demonstrated they can run a ship independent of supply lines and support for a number of years, they don't need someone with over a decade of command experience. excelsiors and intrepids are probably the smallest ships they want full captains in charge of, they could potentially operate outside of federation territory, actually do some exploration or be on the front lines.

    I agree with you, but on Star Trek we have seen a lot of skippers of small vessels with the rank of Captain (not the job or salutation). Both Grissom (Oberth), Reliant (Miranda), and Boseman (Soyuz) had Captain rank. If If I remember right, the same with the captain of the Drake (was mentioned as a small vessel), the Lantree (Miranda variant), Saratoga (Miranda, both in ST IV and DS9).

    It would've made sense for them to follow he tradition of the skipper being called Captain, but rank insignia/pips being of lower grade, but they didnt.
  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,252 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    ships like the defiant and miranda don't strike me as craft that would require a rank of captain for the commanding officer. any command track lt commander would be fit to be it's skipper. these kind of ships will only ever be conducting short range missions, inside of federation territory, and probably micromanaged by the local admiral in charge of the sector. dax and worf were the defiant's skippers all the time. they don't need a tested diplomat, they don't need someone who has demonstrated they can run a ship independent of supply lines and support for a number of years, they don't need someone with over a decade of command experience. excelsiors and intrepids are probably the smallest ships they want full captains in charge of, they could potentially operate outside of federation territory, actually do some exploration or be on the front lines.

    Actually from what I have seen Star Trek took the US Navy route and for specific ships with lower crews, certain ranks can command them.

    Example is the Defiant. Only has a crew of 50 so a lower ranking officer can command one. Now the Miranda still has a crew of over 200, not typically something you hand to a LT commander, more a Commander or Captain level.

    Why I never understood why they gave a Miranda class cruiser to a LT and a Constitution or Excalibur class ship to a LT commander and a Excelsior to a Commander.

    Most of those ships should be 1 billet up because of crew compliments. Now some of the tier 1 zen ships like the NX or Oberth, again those could be Senior Grade LT commands.

    What they should of done is had a small frigate with about 35 people to command as our first command after the academy mission.

    Should of been "Ok we can't give you a cruiser as your first command, but because we are short on officers and need more ships on patrol, we are giving junior officers smaller frigates to get them used to being in the hotseat. Here's your frigate and you have a mission waiting."

    Kinda like when you start out in(yes one of my favorite ST games) Star Fleet Command II and SF Command Orion Pirates.

    Infact the KDF side and Romulans have it right as they have frigate style ships you start out in with the BoP and Warbird. Should of given starting fed players a ship like the Akula that's my signature picture and then offered the Miranda as a tier 2 option for cruiser besides the constitution.
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  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I agree with you, but on Star Trek we have seen a lot of skippers of small vessels with the rank of Captain (not the job or salutation). Both Grissom (Oberth), Reliant (Miranda), and Boseman (Soyuz) had Captain rank. If If I remember right, the same with the captain of the Drake (was mentioned as a small vessel), the Lantree (Miranda variant), Saratoga (Miranda, both in ST IV and DS9).

    It would've made sense for them to follow he tradition of the skipper being called Captain, but rank insignia/pips being of lower grade, but they didnt.

    back in those days, the miranda was a heavy cruiser, tactically superior to the constitution class, with almost exactly the same volume. just not outfitted to perform long range exploration missions, like the constitution was. only in the tng days has the miranda been reclassed as a frigate, compared to the much bigger and newer designs.

    that grissom captain was the meekest loser to ever hold the rank, with every distressing sensor reading he wanted to contact starfleet. he failed upward to captain rank through years of service, and still only got a glorified surveyor, with no critical responsibilities what so ever.

    mirandas and excelsior had 200+ and 400+ crews back in the days, but compared to the galaxy class, thats about 5 times as crew dense per volume. with the computer automation and mission profile these ships would have now, i bet 25 people could run a miranda class in the mid 24th century, especially in fleet escort mode during the dominion war.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,737 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I was sitting on a little over 3 million dilithium and decided to pick up the new t6 galaxy. It's not a bad ship now! It's no where near the best cruiser out there, but it's got a solid boff layout you can actually use now with a little flexibility. I really like the updated model. They really added a lot of detail. Glad they did that and didn't just slap on that hideous andromeda model and call it a day.
    Tza0PEl.png
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,574 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    cant trust much of what the ds9 tech manual says about ships, that section has painfully obvious copy/paste errors. the akira for example doesn't even have 6 arrays, it has 3
    the miranda does have 6 banks, but they aren't arrays. one of the mysteries during the time are how the phasers work on those 23rd century ships still in service. on modern ships, the space frame itself is designed around were arrays can nest, you cant just take an old design, start cutting holes in the outer hull and frame itself, and try to hack job in modern armament if you want something space worthy with at least half the potential hull integrity it had before.

    im guessing they instal a several emitter wide surface discharge plate to replace the ball turrets, and have routed to it an exploded version of typical emitter segment hardware like prefire chambers and whatnot. i'd guess each of these banks has about the output of a 30 to 50 emitter segment arrays, and probably take up a LOT of room underneath the hull.
    In the interest of curiosity I decided to see what I could come up with in terms of on screen firepower and ignore the TM. Since most o the shots we see hit alloys and such that we are not aware of the composition or are fictional I went on a hunt for something we could quantify.

    I remembered at least one episode where the Ent-D drilled into the crust of a planet an I thought that would be a good benchmark since we know the materials being hit. I ended up choosing Legacy (s04x06) as it was the most informative. In the show they say that the people they are looking are under 2km of granite.

    The solution was to use the main array to drill through 1.6km and beam an away team down. Now they didn't say why they wouldn't do that and beam the crew up but they also didn't say that the nature of the rock was different. While they said it would take several hours to reconfigure the main array for drilling it was not specified that they were increasing the power output or anything so I think it is safe to assume that this is a normal full power shot. It takes them ~15 sec to drill through.

    Correct me if I am wrong but the beam width is topically 6 meters?

    For reference here is the shot https://youtu.be/plyPRids0ms?t=320

    With that information we have something that can be quantified. Since I am not that great at math I took this over to /r/theydidthemath on reddit and this is the answer /u/reptile449



    Another user came up with a similar answer at 15.5 TW.

    Far and away more power than any of us would have guessed I think.

    Thoughts...?

    makes more sense now how the enterpise was able to vaporize most of a cube
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    back in those days, the miranda was a heavy cruiser, tactically superior to the constitution class, with almost exactly the same volume. just not outfitted to perform long range exploration missions, like the constitution was. only in the tng days has the miranda been reclassed as a frigate, compared to the much bigger and newer designs.

    that grissom captain was the meekest loser to ever hold the rank, with every distressing sensor reading he wanted to contact starfleet. he failed upward to captain rank through years of service, and still only got a glorified surveyor, with no critical responsibilities what so ever.

    mirandas and excelsior had 200+ and 400+ crews back in the days, but compared to the galaxy class, thats about 5 times as crew dense per volume. with the computer automation and mission profile these ships would have now, i bet 25 people could run a miranda class in the mid 24th century, especially in fleet escort mode during the dominion war.

    I understand and appreciate your points about TOS/WOK era crew compliments, with exception to Captain Estabahn (sp?) of the Grissom. If I was on an Oberth, I would get nervous about everything too. Either way, they still had the rank of Captain. At least inTOS, they had Commodores to head up a gaggle of Captains when needed.

    No matter the profile, Miranda's (and whatever the Drake was) in TNG still had skippers at the rank of Captain.
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    gpgtx wrote: »
    makes more sense now how the enterpise was able to vaporize most of a cube

    The problem with that thought is we never saw another ship do damage to a Borg Cube before they had adapted to Alpha/Beta quadrant weapons to compare it with.
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,574 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    i was mainly going off of how much volume of material the enterprise was just able to get rid off
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    gpgtx wrote: »
    i was mainly going off of how much volume of material the enterprise was just able to get rid off

    I understand that. I was just making a point to say that it couldnt be used to compare different ships destructive abilities, because of the way Borg adapt to attacks to weapon types once exposed to them. Thats all.
  • hawkishmonkhawkishmonk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I understand that. I was just making a point to say that it couldnt be used to compare different ships destructive abilities, because of the way Borg adapt to attacks to weapon types once exposed to them. Thats all.

    That and other reasons is why I chose a shot that hit something we did know as opposed to duranium or something.

    I do have to retract a previous statement in The Survivors the Husnock ship created by Uxbridge hit the shields with over 400 GW of energy not 4 as I previously had stated.

    This concerns me since if the phaser array is capable of 12-15TW shots then it could blow through it's own shields in one shot. I can't logically think that would be the case since we can assume that other ships it has fought have comparable shields to their size and we don't see it one-shotting hardly anything.

    So I may have to go hunting for another shields feat that can be measured to see if the shield capacity has any sane ratio to the power of the main array. If anyone is interested?
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I understand and appreciate your points about TOS/WOK era crew compliments, with exception to Captain Estabahn (sp?) of the Grissom. If I was on an Oberth, I would get nervous about everything too. Either way, they still had the rank of Captain. At least inTOS, they had Commodores to head up a gaggle of Captains when needed.

    No matter the profile, Miranda's (and whatever the Drake was) in TNG still had skippers at the rank of Captain.

    that sample size is basically nothing to go on. plus war time with the kitchen sink strategy, involving reactivating every old mothballed ship, probably left them with a staffing problem, certainly at the level of full captain.

    I understand that. I was just making a point to say that it couldnt be used to compare different ships destructive abilities, because of the way Borg adapt to attacks to weapon types once exposed to them. Thats all.

    assuming the phaser array is a scalable weapon, and literally all evidence points to that, the biggest one is going to be the most powerful. its safe to assume the galaxy's guns are proportionally as stronger as they are longer.
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    that sample size is basically nothing to go on. plus war time with the kitchen sink strategy, involving reactivating every old mothballed ship, probably left them with a staffing problem, certainly at the level of full captain.




    assuming the phaser array is a scalable weapon, and literally all evidence points to that, the biggest one is going to be the most powerful. its safe to assume the galaxy's guns are proportionally as stronger as they are longer.

    By paragraph

    1) And during TNG, when they hadnt reactivated every mothball ship? I am all for the idea of lower rank skippers for smaller ship commands, but it seems that Fed crews have Captains as captains. Even the tiny Equinox had a Captain as a captain.

    2) Its one thing to say you believe "x", but to say "literally all the evidence" is long stretch. What is "safe to assume" is that its your (and some others) opinion, based on personal interperatation.
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    What's the closest "window" and "material" theme in the game to the canon look of the Galaxy in the show? The canon ship colors thread seems a bit out of date.

    Thanks!
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    e30ernest wrote: »
    What's the closest "window" and "material" theme in the game to the canon look of the Galaxy in the show? The canon ship colors thread seems a bit out of date.

    Thanks!
    The default Galaxy skin settings. Only major difference is all the window are lit unlike the ship.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,899 Arc User
    edited May 2015

    1) And during TNG, when they hadnt reactivated every mothball ship? I am all for the idea of lower rank skippers for smaller ship commands, but it seems that Fed crews have Captains as captains. Even the tiny Equinox had a Captain as a captain.
    (...)

    I agree. It hink the only occasion in the show when a ship wasn't comanded by a captain was Data taking command of the Sutherland. Maybe they give out provisional promotions to captain rank for the smaller vessels, we just know that every captain would wear captain's pips in canon. I don't believe "too small sample size" does apply here, we can only judge by on-screen evidence. And if the cases pro some statement are literally non existant (with one exception I think) then we can only dismiss the theory that lower ranked officers were granted command over full-time starships (the Defiant, as stated before, is more of an asset of DS9 than an independent vessel). At least we can say no lower ranked officer with the appropriate uniform was seen and adressed by that rank - they may be the provisional promotion thing but that's just wild speculation on my end, as I generally am in favour of having a LTC command a low priority logistics vessel and commanders should be fully capable of commanding lighter vessels anyway.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    That and other reasons is why I chose a shot that hit something we did know as opposed to duranium or something.

    I do have to retract a previous statement in The Survivors the Husnock ship created by Uxbridge hit the shields with over 400 GW of energy not 4 as I previously had stated.

    This concerns me since if the phaser array is capable of 12-15TW shots then it could blow through it's own shields in one shot. I can't logically think that would be the case since we can assume that other ships it has fought have comparable shields to their size and we don't see it one-shotting hardly anything.

    So I may have to go hunting for another shields feat that can be measured to see if the shield capacity has any sane ratio to the power of the main array. If anyone is interested?
    I'm sorry to sound like a grinch here, but i think that the writers didn't put very much thought in it.

    Like:
    "400GW? WOW that sounds awesome, what's for dinner?"
    It's the same phaenomena like most other canon contradictions, the.writers.just.didn't.care.
    The main thing is, it's supposed to sound huge. Nothing more.

    I belive it is much more important to get a consenus about the Galaxys significance its relative strenght compared to other ships. (better said, where to put it)


    Does the GCS have stronger weapons/shields as a Akira? -Yes
    Stronger offensive/defensive as Excelsior, Nebula, Defiant, Miranda, Constitution? -Yes
    It she on par with a D'Deridex, Negh'Var or Sovereign (if they at the same tech level)? -Yes.
    Surely there are smaller differences like maneuverability, offensive and defensive capabilities. But you can roughly say they are at the same level.



    I think STO is rather limiting, because ONLY combat capabilites are important and every tier of ships have to be balanced against each other. That's why we have ships from the size of a Constitution or Miranda outgunning a Huge behemoth like the Galaxy or even bigger ships.
    To me it doesn't make much sense tbh (especially in a Star Trek game), it's like having the Millenium Falcon outgunning a Star Destroyer, just for the sake of "balance".
    (ok, i exaggerated a bit, but you get my point).
    It's just wrong.
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,899 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    yreodred wrote: »
    (...)
    "400GW? WOW that sounds awesome, what's for dinner?"
    It's the same phaenomena like most other canon contradictions, the.writers.just.didn't.care.
    The main thing is, it's supposed to sound huge. Nothing more.
    (...)

    I agree. I am farily certain nobody did the math how much energy would be needed to vaporize a planet's crust. The only true numbers we have are the TM ones and those are quite in line with one another. The 400 GW husnock thing has to keep in mind that the husnock ship wasn't real, trickery and deception were a key element of it's very function.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • fltcaptalanfltcaptalan Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I agree. It hink the only occasion in the show when a ship wasn't comanded by a captain was Data taking command of the Sutherland. Maybe they give out provisional promotions to captain rank for the smaller vessels, we just know that every captain would wear captain's pips in canon. I don't believe "too small sample size" does apply here, we can only judge by on-screen evidence. And if the cases pro some statement are literally non existant (with one exception I think) then we can only dismiss the theory that lower ranked officers were granted command over full-time starships (the Defiant, as stated before, is more of an asset of DS9 than an independent vessel). At least we can say no lower ranked officer with the appropriate uniform was seen and adressed by that rank - they may be the provisional promotion thing but that's just wild speculation on my end, as I generally am in favour of having a LTC command a low priority logistics vessel and commanders should be fully capable of commanding lighter vessels anyway.

    In the same episode Commander Riker took command of a ship. in Gambit, after Picard was believed dead, Riker was put in command of the Enterprise, and unlike in BoBW, he was not promoted, so there was a commander rank officer in command of the flagship.
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    edalgo wrote: »
    He'll never get it.

    And if he does, he'll never admit to being wrong .

    And thats a sad thing. Nothing is wrong with having an opinion or an interperatation, I welcome that. The thing is to dress it up as pious "fact" as if it is verbatum from canon, especially when questioned. It just feels deceitful to me, and I hope that isn't his intent because other than that, he/she doesn't seem to be a bad guy/gal/grey alien/whatever the case may be.
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    In the same episode Commander Riker took command of a ship. in Gambit, after Picard was believed dead, Riker was put in command of the Enterprise, and unlike in BoBW, he was not promoted, so there was a commander rank officer in command of the flagship.

    But those are examples of temporary command, which is necessary at times when the chain of command is broken at the head. At the most convenient time, the person is either replaced by an officer of proper rank or that person is given the promotion and the command if deemed proper. The same happens all the time in the military and business, they are "acting-xxxxxx".
  • freenos85freenos85 Member Posts: 441 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    edalgo wrote: »
    By paragraph
    2) Its one thing to say you believe "x", but to say "literally all the evidence" is long stretch. What is "safe to assume" is that its your (and some others) opinion, based on personal interperatation.
    He'll never get it.

    And if he does, he'll never admit to being wrong .


    Aren't you just doing what you quoted? Saying somebody is wrong is a pretty final statement, which is being made about a fictional piece. Apperently you couldn't admit to being "wrong" either.
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    freenos85 wrote: »
    Aren't you just doing what you quoted? Saying somebody is wrong is a pretty final statement, which is being made about a fictional piece. Apperently you couldn't admit to being "wrong" either.

    I think what Edalgos' statement meant with what was "wrong" is claiming opinion and interperatation to be fact, not if the opinion/interpretation itself is wrong, that itself is debatable but doesnt appear to be the crux of his statement here.
  • willamsheridanwillamsheridan Member Posts: 1,187 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I assume this has been discussed here: Is there nay chance we will get a Galaxy upgrade so it can use the Gal-X nacelles? Not all three of course but just like the canon Venture Refit with the Phaser Arrays on the nacelles
  • yreodredyreodred Member Posts: 3,527 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I assume this has been discussed here: Is there nay chance we will get a Galaxy upgrade so it can use the Gal-X nacelles? Not all three of course but just like the canon Venture Refit with the Phaser Arrays on the nacelles
    No i never heard of them unlocking the G-X nacelles for a non G-X.

    But on the other hand i'd love to have a G-X without 3 nacelles, keep the supergun, but get rid of all those childish looking cannons (on top of the saucer) and the third nacelle and it wouldn't be such a gruesome sight anymore. Just saying.


    EDIT:
    One thing that comes to my mind is what if they would release a Intelligence variant of the GCS?
    I think it would fit to the Galaxy just as well, since that ship can be modified for a wide aspect of mission profiles.
    I would love to have OSS and Surgical Strikes for that ship (which is much more appropriate than Concentrate Firepower or especially Overwhelm Emitters, if you ask me.)
    "...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--" - (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie

    A tale of two Picards
    (also applies to Star Trek in general)
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    yreodred wrote: »
    No i never heard of them unlocking the G-X nacelles for a non G-X.

    But on the other hand i'd love to have a G-X without 3 nacelles, keep the supergun, but get rid of all those childish looking cannons (on top of the saucer) and the third nacelle and it wouldn't be such a gruesome sight anymore. Just saying.

    If you think of the cannons as pitot tubes for atmospheric use, they arent as bad. The third nacelle? I'd like to think thats where they keep all of the Columbian coffee and Butterfinger ice cream bars. :D
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,574 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    i still like the fan designs that turn the 3rd nacelle into the nebula tactical mission pod (the triangle one with the extra torp tubes)
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • jer5488jer5488 Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Yeah, the Galaxy X does have extra torpedoes - but...

    http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/114/0/b/another_shot_for_wiskey_by_jimlogan1701-d62ttg8.jpg

    is just REALLY cool. Especially if it worked like the nebula with modular pods. Tactical/sensor/hospital
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