1. Leveling Difference Between Pre- and Post-50 Characters
Up until level 50, characters can normally gain a level for every 1-2 story missions they do. It's a decent xp per time spent ratio and leveling feels fast and efficient. Then you hit 50 and all of a sudden it takes like 10 times more xp to hit the next rank. Instead of filling half the xp bar for a level, a story mission now maybe fills 1-2 bars. This seems unsatisfying.
As you can see, it's a huge curve after hitting 50. While there are good reasons for making it steeper than the pre-50 track (e.g. so you can't max out captain specialization points within 3 days of hard grinding), this curve is far too steep. You are either required to enter a non-stop 8-10 hour grind of STF's and and patrol missions just to reach the next level when 1-2 hours would have done the trick in pre-50 leveling, or you're required to resign yourself to taking weeks if not months to level your character playing a few hours a day.
You realize this is very specifically part of the design, right?
Cryptic doesn't want you at level 49 or lower, but once you're at level 50 they want you there basically forever.
What was the last T4 or under ship made? The Constellation, right? A canon ship design (with a T5 version along side). Before that? Ambassador, another canon design. And before that...? Not much, huh? Why? Because Cryptic knows T4 and under ships don't sell, and when they do they sell for lower amounts. You aren't supposed to spend weeks or months at lower levels. You aren't even supposed to spend more than a day on any particular level. They want you at Vice Admiral so you can buy their shiny $30 T6 ships and their shiny lockbox ships.
Heck, the only reason we see sub-T5 ships in the Zen Store is frog boiling. Cryptic released unbalanced ships there to get people used to the idea of buying more powerful ships within the tiers which is why they started at the bottom with the Rhode Island and worked their way up. Hell, when the RI released me and about five other people warned everyone that this was coming at all tiers and the majority laughed at us and told us Cryptic would never be stupid enough to put ships with extra BOff slots and consoles behind a Zen wall... then low and behold Fleet ships. And T6. And T6 Fleet.
The leveling curve is insanely fast at low levels because they want you to be a "good consumer" and buy all their shinies which you can't do sub-Vice Admiral. They also want you grinding away because it keeps you in game, thus increasing the chances you'll buy something thus making you a "good consumer". It's not a coincidence that we run face first into a wall very specifically at level 50 instead of 40, 20 or 55... 50 is where their bread and butter is.
They want you in game, but buying more product. Why do you think the starship mastery level XP got buffed through the roof? It was MUCH slower at release. Being shortsighted they saw a method to implement more grind... another carrot to put at the end of a long stick. What they didn't bother to consider was that you can only fly one ship at a time. So if you haven't mastered the ship you're flying, you aren't about to want to fly (or more importantly buy) another. So *bam* mastery XP requirements get lowered dramatically almost immediately.
What I don't think our friends at Cryptic realize is that their shiny new "Spec ships" almost deter you from buying them since they are intrinsically associated with earning XP and the resulting spec points, which only happens at a trickle once you actually get access to them. Doesn't matter if you can buy training manuals off the exchange... the perception that they're better with the associated spec points assigned is there quite simply due to association. A lot of people look at the new Pilot ships and think, "Well, why would I buy that when I'm not even done filling out my Intelligence spec yet, much less Command?" Maybe Cryptic will realize this and act accordingly, as it's probably the only thing that might result in actual change... however since the effects are likely to be less noticeable and dramatic than with Mastery XP it's doubtful.
Those 'meanderings' about Devs become relevant when you have a certain Lead Dev locked in a tunnel-vision, hovering over his metrics, looking for peaks in XP rewards to nerf, with extreme prejudice, when he game so needs focus on fixing a zillion other, truly high-priority things first.
yeah
they are concerned for their jobs, rational considering the layoffs
funny though
the money comes from us, ultimately, not their bosses
one would think they would occasionally swing their tunnel vision over to the forums, but that doesn't seem to be the case. sure a dev posted here, but even he/she said they had to ignore most of it. they can't take it.
EDIT: I don't want to be too harsh, perhaps they are under the gun
What I don't think our friends at Cryptic realize is that their shiny new "Spec ships" almost deter you from buying them since they are intrinsically associated with earning XP and the resulting spec points, which only happens at a trickle once you actually get access to them. Doesn't matter if you can buy training manuals off the exchange... the perception that they're better with the associated spec points assigned is there quite simply due to association. A lot of people look at the new Pilot ships and think, "Well, why would I buy that when I'm not even done filling out my Intelligence spec yet, much less Command?" Maybe Cryptic will realize this and act accordingly, as it's probably the only thing that might result in actual change... however since the effects are likely to be less noticeable and dramatic than with Mastery XP it's doubtful.
Ding Ding Ding. Thread OVAR!!!11!!
Important point. But back to the OP's point, has anyone discussed that it seems liek not ONLY are 12 hour doff missions getting the nerf/"fix", but OTHER high-rewarding ones are too?
I disagree. Actually, I'm of the opinion we should be forced to play more patrols throughout 1-50 as well, although it should be set up that we don't need to repeat them unless we actually want to. (I would have been more fine with Delta Rising if I didn't have to repeat patrol missions.)
Sometimes the Enterprise was patrolling a system, you know? <_<
I disagree. Actually, I'm of the opinion we should be forced to play more patrols throughout 1-50 as well, although it should be set up that we don't need to repeat them unless we actually want to. (I would have been more fine with Delta Rising if I didn't have to repeat patrol missions.)
Sometimes the Enterprise was patrolling a system, you know? <_<
Then a single patrol mission (not a "set of patrol missions" as they are now), should reward equally to an Episode. Hint: It doesn't.
What I don't think our friends at Cryptic realize is that their shiny new "Spec ships" almost deter you from buying them since they are intrinsically associated with earning XP and the resulting spec points, which only happens at a trickle once you actually get access to them. Doesn't matter if you can buy training manuals off the exchange... the perception that they're better with the associated spec points assigned is there quite simply due to association. A lot of people look at the new Pilot ships and think, "Well, why would I buy that when I'm not even done filling out my Intelligence spec yet, much less Command?"
Exactly .
They can nerf, adjust, tinker month after month with the obsession of a anorectic over their figure , but apart from "we make ships -- ppl buy ships" mentality , they have still much to learn .
... not that learning has helped them, as previous experience taught us ...
Bummer to read this. The XP change doesn't bother me much. Not that any one of my characters have maxed all the specialization trees yet, but then again only two of the existing four can be active at a time anyways so maxing all of them out just isn't that important to me.
The CXP nerf though - ouch. It was nice turning a Gorn critical into 90ish fleet marks, particularly since the changes to my other major source of FMs (Crystaline Entity). I'll probably still slot the projects though, the time frame for completion just fits my play style and it's a decent way to keep the provision/medical commodities in check.
What was the last T4 or under ship made? The Constellation, right?
actually, wasn't the stargazer the most recent?
What I don't think our friends at Cryptic realize is that their shiny new "Spec ships" almost deter you from buying them since [COLOR="limeing spec points[/COLOR], which only happens at a trickle once you actually get access to them. Doesn't matter if you can buy training manuals off the exchange... [COLOR="lime"]the perception that they're better with the associated spec points assigned is there quite simply due to association[/COLOR]. A lot of people look at the new Pilot ships and think, "Well, why would I buy that when I'm not even done filling out my Intelligence spec yet, much less Command?".
I'm going to have to disagree with this. Exp and spec points are 100% irrelevant to ships and most people know it. You captain can fly them at level 50 with zero points and use everything.
I don't think the association thing is the big issue.
There is only one way spec points matter and that is purely a choice on the player's part. If you choose to only make your own manuals to train your boffs and simultaneously choose to use powers from the specializations other than the ones you get for free (kobali command boff, white Intel boffs, the 4 powers with the free pilot spec manual from delta flight, etc) in that one and only circumstance, spec points matter.
However if you refuse to use the auction house, then you deserve the results of that decision. And I have no sympathy for you.
Everyone else can happily use everything on the ships right out of the box. Even someone who invested in say Intel,can sell Intel manuals and use the money to buy pilot ones instead of grinding spec points in pilot.
The issue as I see it, is that people are afraid of the auction house and feel that things are too expensive because they don't know how to make money off the stuff they already do in game. This is where people are unwilling to even check prices on pilot training manuals etc.
I don't think its association, I think its the auctionhouse that is the limiting factor.
You might be right, but that's not what I've been seeing or hearing in game.
I disagree. Actually, I'm of the opinion we should be forced to play more patrols throughout 1-50 as well, although it should be set up that we don't need to repeat them unless we actually want to. (I would have been more fine with Delta Rising if I didn't have to repeat patrol missions.)
Sometimes the Enterprise was patrolling a system, you know? <_<
Well, once upon a time the old-school patrols had a wrapper mission associated with them. Now people don't get directed to them at all. Although they're one-play only missions, so you actually have an incentive to wait.
Yeah, I don't get why we can only patrol Maro once, but we can patrol Argala as often as we wish...
Like the other guy said, they used to... and got flamed for not doing everything they listed as soemthign they *might* do....
I'm sure this also happened, but as it is, Cryptic are getting flamed so often now for the changes they are making, getting flamed for something they didn't change could not be any worse - and very likely would not be as much of a flaming anyway...
Throw in the usual disclaimers that it is all subject to change and avoid anything that's too far out from implementation, that it is likely to drastically change before introduction, and it will likely lessen the impact of mentioning a prospective change and not implementing it...
Right now, one of the biggest problems I see is the lack of proper communication with what is clearly a very passionate playerbase...
It's pretty clear not communicating with that playerbase is not working, it keeps blowing up in Cryptic's face time, and time, and time again... Maybe it's time for a change of tack and, instead of leaving players mostly in the dark, Cryptic start being more forthcoming with changes and discuss them with players...
This approach works very well for CCP in relation to EVE Online...
What I dont get it why they are worrying about changing exp when there is so much wrong since S10 and they havent spent 1 second trying to change it. Sector map wont update, RN and other sectors in Beta Q contain nothing. not too mention the 3 pages of bugs that need fixing. Worry about the current bugs instead of stupid nerfing. Get your priorities steaight for once.
Bug fixes=FAIL
You and your band of merry trolls don't speak for any of us. You fools spend all your time acting like children and doing what you can to aggravate the 'average player' and then come here trying to pretend you're some kind of champion for the people.
Don't expect sympathy or solidarity here, you will find none. The game would be far better off without you and your fleet of idiots.
Unless they are specifically joining missions/queues and failing them on purpose, they have every right to be here as everyone else.
I don't why the constant need to hinder character progression to reach end game which came with Delta Rising. Speaking from a personal perspective whilst levelling a character i don't spend a single dime of RL Money as the investment at lower levels is a waste of my investment.
However when i reach max level and i'm not including spec trees. I will spend money in the c-store to buy ships, upgrade tokens and fleet ship mods. I will buy zen to turn into dil to upgrade items
By hindering my progression to level 60 Cryptic aren't hurting me, They are boring the **** out of me as the skill point counter to the next level doesn't feel like its moving. And they need to remember they are in the entertainment business and nothing kills a product in that market than a product that is not fun and entertaining
In the end they are hurting themselves, as i'm not spending money as i haven't reached max level on a certain character to invest in them. So the longer it takes the less money i invest n the game.
Alright. So. Here's the dealio. The team is changing the bug that made this do an exponential amount of XP compared to everything else. That's going through.
But here's the other side of things. I learned a lot about what's coming. I talked to the team and communicated the concerns of everyone. There is stuff that is coming that is helping fix the 50-60 level curve. I can't get into details about everything (because hey, unreleased content). That being said, there is something in the works to make it a lot better for ya'll.
I'm going to close the thread down because of the incoming speculation. I've said all I can say on it, but know that I have made the team extremely aware of this, and am assured there is something incoming.
Comments
You realize this is very specifically part of the design, right?
Cryptic doesn't want you at level 49 or lower, but once you're at level 50 they want you there basically forever.
What was the last T4 or under ship made? The Constellation, right? A canon ship design (with a T5 version along side). Before that? Ambassador, another canon design. And before that...? Not much, huh? Why? Because Cryptic knows T4 and under ships don't sell, and when they do they sell for lower amounts. You aren't supposed to spend weeks or months at lower levels. You aren't even supposed to spend more than a day on any particular level. They want you at Vice Admiral so you can buy their shiny $30 T6 ships and their shiny lockbox ships.
Heck, the only reason we see sub-T5 ships in the Zen Store is frog boiling. Cryptic released unbalanced ships there to get people used to the idea of buying more powerful ships within the tiers which is why they started at the bottom with the Rhode Island and worked their way up. Hell, when the RI released me and about five other people warned everyone that this was coming at all tiers and the majority laughed at us and told us Cryptic would never be stupid enough to put ships with extra BOff slots and consoles behind a Zen wall... then low and behold Fleet ships. And T6. And T6 Fleet.
The leveling curve is insanely fast at low levels because they want you to be a "good consumer" and buy all their shinies which you can't do sub-Vice Admiral. They also want you grinding away because it keeps you in game, thus increasing the chances you'll buy something thus making you a "good consumer". It's not a coincidence that we run face first into a wall very specifically at level 50 instead of 40, 20 or 55... 50 is where their bread and butter is.
They want you in game, but buying more product. Why do you think the starship mastery level XP got buffed through the roof? It was MUCH slower at release. Being shortsighted they saw a method to implement more grind... another carrot to put at the end of a long stick. What they didn't bother to consider was that you can only fly one ship at a time. So if you haven't mastered the ship you're flying, you aren't about to want to fly (or more importantly buy) another. So *bam* mastery XP requirements get lowered dramatically almost immediately.
What I don't think our friends at Cryptic realize is that their shiny new "Spec ships" almost deter you from buying them since they are intrinsically associated with earning XP and the resulting spec points, which only happens at a trickle once you actually get access to them. Doesn't matter if you can buy training manuals off the exchange... the perception that they're better with the associated spec points assigned is there quite simply due to association. A lot of people look at the new Pilot ships and think, "Well, why would I buy that when I'm not even done filling out my Intelligence spec yet, much less Command?" Maybe Cryptic will realize this and act accordingly, as it's probably the only thing that might result in actual change... however since the effects are likely to be less noticeable and dramatic than with Mastery XP it's doubtful.
yeah
they are concerned for their jobs, rational considering the layoffs
funny though
the money comes from us, ultimately, not their bosses
one would think they would occasionally swing their tunnel vision over to the forums, but that doesn't seem to be the case. sure a dev posted here, but even he/she said they had to ignore most of it. they can't take it.
EDIT: I don't want to be too harsh, perhaps they are under the gun
Ding Ding Ding. Thread OVAR!!!11!!
Important point. But back to the OP's point, has anyone discussed that it seems liek not ONLY are 12 hour doff missions getting the nerf/"fix", but OTHER high-rewarding ones are too?
I disagree. Actually, I'm of the opinion we should be forced to play more patrols throughout 1-50 as well, although it should be set up that we don't need to repeat them unless we actually want to. (I would have been more fine with Delta Rising if I didn't have to repeat patrol missions.)
Sometimes the Enterprise was patrolling a system, you know? <_<
Then a single patrol mission (not a "set of patrol missions" as they are now), should reward equally to an Episode. Hint: It doesn't.
Exactly .
They can nerf, adjust, tinker month after month with the obsession of a anorectic over their figure , but apart from "we make ships -- ppl buy ships" mentality , they have still much to learn .
... not that learning has helped them, as previous experience taught us ...
The CXP nerf though - ouch. It was nice turning a Gorn critical into 90ish fleet marks, particularly since the changes to my other major source of FMs (Crystaline Entity). I'll probably still slot the projects though, the time frame for completion just fits my play style and it's a decent way to keep the provision/medical commodities in check.
I'm going to have to disagree with this. Exp and spec points are 100% irrelevant to ships and most people know it. You captain can fly them at level 50 with zero points and use everything.
I don't think the association thing is the big issue.
There is only one way spec points matter and that is purely a choice on the player's part. If you choose to only make your own manuals to train your boffs and simultaneously choose to use powers from the specializations other than the ones you get for free (kobali command boff, white Intel boffs, the 4 powers with the free pilot spec manual from delta flight, etc) in that one and only circumstance, spec points matter.
However if you refuse to use the auction house, then you deserve the results of that decision. And I have no sympathy for you.
Everyone else can happily use everything on the ships right out of the box. Even someone who invested in say Intel,can sell Intel manuals and use the money to buy pilot ones instead of grinding spec points in pilot.
The issue as I see it, is that people are afraid of the auction house and feel that things are too expensive because they don't know how to make money off the stuff they already do in game. This is where people are unwilling to even check prices on pilot training manuals etc.
I don't think its association, I think its the auctionhouse that is the limiting factor.
You might be right, but that's not what I've been seeing or hearing in game.
Yeah, I don't get why we can only patrol Maro once, but we can patrol Argala as often as we wish...
My character Tsin'xing
I'm sure this also happened, but as it is, Cryptic are getting flamed so often now for the changes they are making, getting flamed for something they didn't change could not be any worse - and very likely would not be as much of a flaming anyway...
Throw in the usual disclaimers that it is all subject to change and avoid anything that's too far out from implementation, that it is likely to drastically change before introduction, and it will likely lessen the impact of mentioning a prospective change and not implementing it...
Right now, one of the biggest problems I see is the lack of proper communication with what is clearly a very passionate playerbase...
It's pretty clear not communicating with that playerbase is not working, it keeps blowing up in Cryptic's face time, and time, and time again... Maybe it's time for a change of tack and, instead of leaving players mostly in the dark, Cryptic start being more forthcoming with changes and discuss them with players...
This approach works very well for CCP in relation to EVE Online...
Bug fixes=FAIL
Unless they are specifically joining missions/queues and failing them on purpose, they have every right to be here as everyone else.
Likewise, their opinions are just as valid.
The DOFF XPs are getting nerfed before DOFFing in Sector Space where these special missions take place are even fixed! :eek::D
However when i reach max level and i'm not including spec trees. I will spend money in the c-store to buy ships, upgrade tokens and fleet ship mods. I will buy zen to turn into dil to upgrade items
By hindering my progression to level 60 Cryptic aren't hurting me, They are boring the **** out of me as the skill point counter to the next level doesn't feel like its moving. And they need to remember they are in the entertainment business and nothing kills a product in that market than a product that is not fun and entertaining
In the end they are hurting themselves, as i'm not spending money as i haven't reached max level on a certain character to invest in them. So the longer it takes the less money i invest n the game.
But here's the other side of things. I learned a lot about what's coming. I talked to the team and communicated the concerns of everyone. There is stuff that is coming that is helping fix the 50-60 level curve. I can't get into details about everything (because hey, unreleased content). That being said, there is something in the works to make it a lot better for ya'll.
I'm going to close the thread down because of the incoming speculation. I've said all I can say on it, but know that I have made the team extremely aware of this, and am assured there is something incoming.