Originally Posted by Heretic
We have several goals for the [duty officer] system:
Provide significant non-combat gameplay that fills the desire for less overtly aggressive styles of gameplay.
Create an engaging logistical mini-game.
Provide a supplementary or even alternative character advancement mechanic - this will be useful for both factions, but in particular should somewhat ease advancement issues in the KDF.
Establish a new set of parallel achievement goals and rewards in the form of the Commendation part of the system to give more goals for players who have hit cap.
Provide alternative and supplementary mechanics and support to an array of frustrations apparent in existing systems such as the process for gathering anomalies, gaining high quality bridge officers, the Diplomacy grind, the lack of a parallel Diplomacy system on the KDF side, lack of usage for commodities, need for more Energy Credit sinks, and so on.
Either way it's so old we may never know... :P Tracking down the origin of a 200 year old colloquialism is about as easy as figuring out the origins of certain nursery rhymes...
round and round the mulberry bush
the monkey chased the weasel
the monkey thought it was all in fun,
but pop goes the weasel....
I figured out it was nonsense when I was a little kid, but it still makes me wonder who came up with something like that....
Originally Posted by Heretic
We have several goals for the [duty officer] system:
Provide significant non-combat gameplay that fills the desire for less overtly aggressive styles of gameplay.
Create an engaging logistical mini-game.
Provide a supplementary or even alternative character advancement mechanic - this will be useful for both factions, but in particular should somewhat ease advancement issues in the KDF.
Establish a new set of parallel achievement goals and rewards in the form of the Commendation part of the system to give more goals for players who have hit cap.
Provide alternative and supplementary mechanics and support to an array of frustrations apparent in existing systems such as the process for gathering anomalies, gaining high quality bridge officers, the Diplomacy grind, the lack of a parallel Diplomacy system on the KDF side, lack of usage for commodities, need for more Energy Credit sinks, and so on.
Rewards are scaled based on time (although longer assignments are per capita not as rewarding, since they require less micromanagement on the part of the player), assignment rarity, success versus critical success determination, amount of inputs (so if you have to put commodities or another type of item to do it, it will generally be more rewarding), danger to the assigned crew, chance of success, and existence of non-numerical rewards.
The ultimate goal as far as skill points and the duty officer system is that if you were to spend 100% of your time with the system and were smart about how you did it, you could conceivably level at mildly better than half the speed you could if you were leveling through other methods. Note, this 100% of your time refers to you being actively logged in, checking the Exchange for better officers, traveling back to Qo'noS or Starfleet Academy, checking sector blocks for various assignments, and so on.
The current allocation of skill points very well may need to be reined in again to hit this goal; due to bugs and balance issues the initial several weeks the system was live saw a progression rate that was in excess of these goals. Once we get some additional hard numbers, we will be in a better position to determine what needs still to be done to approach these targets more closely than is currently the case.
We do, however, wish for it to remain to be a viable, albeit not optimal, method of leveling.
In practice, we expect most players who engage in the system to use it as an auxiliary to their normal play rather than a substitute, although some will certainly choose to use it as a substitute, and we're fine with that as well given the above considerations.
But hey...delusions can be as much fun as reality!
But hey...delusions can be as much fun as reality!
Babylon 5: The Summoning
Marcus Cole: At least a dozen ships have reported seeing something rather godlike in the area and since neither you nor I were there, it must be one of the First Ones.
Cmdr. Susan Ivanova: You're having delusions of grandeur again.
Marcus Cole: Well, if you're going to have delusions, may as well go for the really satisfying ones.
I would like to see a promise that there will not be anymore increases in levels, lvl 60 and T6 is it. That would make the slow gains for spec "leveling". at which point it is in a good range compaired to other mmo's.
If you can't see how to continue to level off doff missions past this change (small, very small, reduction) then you kinda don't understand enough about it. You are only argueing a reduction in what you think is the only way to earn these numbers.
If you build doff like you would the dps game, this is not much of a change.
If you build doff like you would the dps game, this is not much of a change.
If theyd leave it with the currently announced changes on tribble I would fully agree with you.
Fixing years old discrepancies to the players disadvantage now is only embarrassing on the devs part but something that does not surprise me anymore.
What moves beyond embarrassing however are Geko statements ala normalizing doffing in general. As far as in game currencies are concerned Delta Rising has been nothing more than a massive nerf and those few cases you get better rewards now you are likely to have paid for accordingly in order to grab them.
Now normalizing doffing out of this dudes mouth means nothing more than bringing it in line with the rest of the nerfs he has issued in for us to enjoy.
I have hundreds of high quality doffs spread throughout nine toons. Dependent on the current outcome getting them was worth it. After Geko is done who knows.
Take sector space freighters. 400 Lobi invested into the frenegi set gave me a cool way to build my bases the past 2 years. Now those freighters are gone and the sets useless.
Another part of EC "normalized"?
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Babylon 5: The Summoning
Marcus Cole: At least a dozen ships have reported seeing something rather godlike in the area and since neither you nor I were there, it must be one of the First Ones.
Cmdr. Susan Ivanova: You're having delusions of grandeur again.
Marcus Cole: Well, if you're going to have delusions, may as well go for the really satisfying ones.
Here's also a thing you can ask them - do they really believe that the XP boosters from the C-Store are worth their value?
I mean, I could totally see that this would be a way to monetize the high skill point requirements, but the cost are that incredibly excessive that no one in his right mind would do it.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Here's also a thing you can ask them - do they really believe that the XP boosters from the C-Store are worth their value?
I mean, I could totally see that this would be a way to monetize the high skill point requirements, but the cost are that incredibly excessive that no one in his right mind would do it.
Lol, quiet that.
But its fun that the same group of people who have such a hard time distributing game rewards encounter the same hard time when it come to tagging prises. I could imagine those tokens to be quiet a seller when they would cost 1% of what they do now. Same qualifies for 18k skip now dil buttons if they were priced and the cost of a PvE or two.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
What's stupid is that the XP you get at level 30 from doffing is the same that you get at level 60. What they should do is scale the XP you get depending on your level. I would actually welcome a nerf to XP for lower levels because if you Doff at the lower levels you shoot through the levels faster than you can equip a ship, and then you're on to a new ship before you even get to explore the capabilities of your current one.
What shouldn't be nerfed is the level 60 doff XP. This XP is definitely a welcome boost in earning spec points, especially the unique missions on the KDF side.
However, I doubt the devs know how to create doff XP rewards based on your current level nor would they want to "waste time" trying to figure it out. It's much easier just to take the easy way out like they always do and swing the nerf hammer instead of actually fixing the core problem of the doff system.
However, I doubt the devs know how to create doff XP rewards based on your current level nor would they want to "waste time" trying to figure it out.
The fact that they seem to blame it on a decimal point discrepancy three years old and right now, all of sudden, find the time to address this issue would seem to underline that yea.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
What I find particularly sad about this -- apart from the obvious nerfing, of course -- is that there are so many other things in this game that really need Dev attention. Like, oh, the lag, for instance. Or testing abilities first before rushing them out, and then later see ppl upset because they're getting nerfed... or because they're causing lag.
My long-winded point being, that of all things to spend time on, things like tweaking doff XP should be the very last thing on their 'to-do' list; and yet, surprisingly, these nerfs always take a front-seat somehow.
Hmmm, so the time has come. Having used DOffing to get 4 alts to have at least 1 full primary and secondary spec each, I am apparently now an exploiter (even though that took 6 months....). Nice.
That said, given how efficient DOffing was for generating dilithium / XP compared to queued missions... it's probably not surprising that the Devs would come hunting for it at some point.
BTW, I stress "efficient"; the advantage of DOffing is that you can get results from small ammounts of time online, as long as you do it on a daily basis. Much greater rewards can be had from marathon multi-hour gaming sessions in a much smaller timeframe, but it's not as efficient.
I would like to see a promise that there will not be anymore increases in levels, lvl 60 and T6 is it.
I don't think you'll get that promise. Personally they've raised the level cap twice I think since I've been playing so they'll do it again. And we'll be seeing tier 7 ships at some point. Cryptic can't help themselves if they can turn into a cash grab they will do. It's in their nature.
What's stupid is that the XP you get at level 30 from doffing is the same that you get at level 60. What they should do is scale the XP you get depending on your level. I would actually welcome a nerf to XP for lower levels because if you Doff at the lower levels you shoot through the levels faster than you can equip a ship, and then you're on to a new ship before you even get to explore the capabilities of your current one.
That makes a lot of sense. Aside from accolades, doffing is the only thing in the game to give xp that ISN'T some how tied to your level.
What's stupid is that the XP you get at level 30 from doffing is the same that you get at level 60. What they should do is scale the XP you get depending on your level. I would actually welcome a nerf to XP for lower levels because if you Doff at the lower levels you shoot through the levels faster than you can equip a ship, and then you're on to a new ship before you even get to explore the capabilities of your current one.
I can get behind the thought behind this idea, though I wouldn't nerf pre-50 doffing. Its not that lucrative. And the ships before tier 4...
What's stupid is that the XP you get at level 30 from doffing is the same that you get at level 60. What they should do is scale the XP you get depending on your level. I would actually welcome a nerf to XP for lower levels because if you Doff at the lower levels you shoot through the levels faster than you can equip a ship, and then you're on to a new ship before you even get to explore the capabilities of your current one.
What I find particularly sad about this -- apart from the obvious nerfing, of course -- is that there are so many other things in this game that really need Dev attention. Like, oh, the lag, for instance. Or testing abilities first before rushing them out, and then later see ppl upset because they're getting nerfed... or because they're causing lag.
My long-winded point being, that of all things to spend time on, things like tweaking doff XP should be the very last thing on their 'to-do' list; and yet, surprisingly, these nerfs always take a front-seat somehow.
Agreed, fully.
If they properly tested and scaled things before releasing them, then we wouldn't see as many fixes being branded as "nerfs" and people getting upset about them.
What I find particularly sad about this -- apart from the obvious nerfing, of course -- is that there are so many other things in this game that really need Dev attention. Like, oh, the lag, for instance. Or testing abilities first before rushing them out, and then later see ppl upset because they're getting nerfed... or because they're causing lag.
My long-winded point being, that of all things to spend time on, things like tweaking doff XP should be the very last thing on their 'to-do' list; and yet, surprisingly, these nerfs always take a front-seat somehow.
From what I've heard, it's not PWE mandating the needs; the fault lays entirely with Gecko, who sneers at players who approach him with these issues on twitter.
Maybe it's time we went over his head. Players should start sending e-mails directly to PWE corporate expressing your concerns. One thing that will make a guy listen is when the Boss says something.
If 45+ pages of player comments expressing their dislike of the upcoming update this Thursday, doesn't at least cause pause and a reconsideration of our concerns. Then it is time to let our concerns be known to the next level ~~> PWE Corporate.
Maybe it's time we went over his head. Players should start sending e-mails directly to PWE corporate expressing your concerns. One thing that will make a guy listen is when the Boss says something.
If 45+ pages of player comments expressing their dislike of the upcoming update this Thursday, doesn't at least cause pause and a reconsideration of our concerns. Then it is time to let our concerns be known to the next level ~~> PWE Corporate.
Already tried that as both a paying customer and at one point a share holder. You don't get squat either way. But by all means feel free to try.
Above Gecko is Salami. Above Salami is Jackalope. Above Jackalope is Alan Ming Cheng. Above Alan Ming Cheng is Michael Yufeng Chi - though he is a little busy working on the buy-back deal. Take your pick on who you want to contact.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
It's not our job to tell Crytpic how to keep players happy.
Sure wish someone higher up in PWE would tell them to stop nerfing everything.
I'm having discussions with them about moving forward.
The talks are going well so far. I'm getting a better picture of the pipeline and what's in development.
Above Gecko is Salami. Above Salami is Jackalope. Above Jackalope is Alan Ming Cheng. Above Alan Ming Cheng is Michael Yufeng Chi - though he is a little busy working on the buy-back deal. Take your pick on who you want to contact.
Who is the main CBS person that knows about sto? ^.^
I'm having discussions with them about moving forward.
The talks are going well so far. I'm getting a better picture of the pipeline and what's in development.
thanks.. for efforts.. oh BTW .. tell them turn OFF the pipeline for a little while. At least until there has been more discussion about the nerfing of Doffing..
I'm having discussions with them about moving forward.
The talks are going well so far. I'm getting a better picture of the pipeline and what's in development.
I'm glad to hear that.
I've been working on my KDF Delta Recruit who's only made it up to level 56 so far. I'm currently halfway through the Delta missions and have only gained 1 level since I entered the Delta Quadrant. I just went through the Kobali Prime missions up to the level 57 mission and I gained a grand total of...zero levels. That's including the missions that you can find on the way. So all these missions later all I have to show for it is a handful of exp and some vendor trash.
I can't say I find that very satisfying. I hope we can get this turned around soon, because right now the entire leveling and reward system in the Delta Quadrant just isn't fun. At least for me anyway.
Thanks for keeping us updated though. Do appreciate that.
Comments
We have several goals for the [duty officer] system:
Provide significant non-combat gameplay that fills the desire for less overtly aggressive styles of gameplay.
Create an engaging logistical mini-game.
Provide a supplementary or even alternative character advancement mechanic - this will be useful for both factions, but in particular should somewhat ease advancement issues in the KDF.
Establish a new set of parallel achievement goals and rewards in the form of the Commendation part of the system to give more goals for players who have hit cap.
Provide alternative and supplementary mechanics and support to an array of frustrations apparent in existing systems such as the process for gathering anomalies, gaining high quality bridge officers, the Diplomacy grind, the lack of a parallel Diplomacy system on the KDF side, lack of usage for commodities, need for more Energy Credit sinks, and so on.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=23678891&postcount=120
It makes me think of this comic actually:
https://xkcd.com/771/
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=220296
Is the actual thread where that's taken from...most folks just like to snip that first bit. They like to ignore the rest.
Things like the following from his third post in that thread:
Then there was this from another thread:
But hey...delusions can be as much fun as reality!
Babylon 5: The Summoning
Marcus Cole: At least a dozen ships have reported seeing something rather godlike in the area and since neither you nor I were there, it must be one of the First Ones.
Cmdr. Susan Ivanova: You're having delusions of grandeur again.
Marcus Cole: Well, if you're going to have delusions, may as well go for the really satisfying ones.
If you can't see how to continue to level off doff missions past this change (small, very small, reduction) then you kinda don't understand enough about it. You are only argueing a reduction in what you think is the only way to earn these numbers.
If you build doff like you would the dps game, this is not much of a change.
If theyd leave it with the currently announced changes on tribble I would fully agree with you.
Fixing years old discrepancies to the players disadvantage now is only embarrassing on the devs part but something that does not surprise me anymore.
What moves beyond embarrassing however are Geko statements ala normalizing doffing in general. As far as in game currencies are concerned Delta Rising has been nothing more than a massive nerf and those few cases you get better rewards now you are likely to have paid for accordingly in order to grab them.
Now normalizing doffing out of this dudes mouth means nothing more than bringing it in line with the rest of the nerfs he has issued in for us to enjoy.
I have hundreds of high quality doffs spread throughout nine toons. Dependent on the current outcome getting them was worth it. After Geko is done who knows.
Take sector space freighters. 400 Lobi invested into the frenegi set gave me a cool way to build my bases the past 2 years. Now those freighters are gone and the sets useless.
Another part of EC "normalized"?
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Heh, that's pretty trippy.
Here's also a thing you can ask them - do they really believe that the XP boosters from the C-Store are worth their value?
I mean, I could totally see that this would be a way to monetize the high skill point requirements, but the cost are that incredibly excessive that no one in his right mind would do it.
Lol, quiet that.
But its fun that the same group of people who have such a hard time distributing game rewards encounter the same hard time when it come to tagging prises. I could imagine those tokens to be quiet a seller when they would cost 1% of what they do now. Same qualifies for 18k skip now dil buttons if they were priced and the cost of a PvE or two.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
What shouldn't be nerfed is the level 60 doff XP. This XP is definitely a welcome boost in earning spec points, especially the unique missions on the KDF side.
However, I doubt the devs know how to create doff XP rewards based on your current level nor would they want to "waste time" trying to figure it out. It's much easier just to take the easy way out like they always do and swing the nerf hammer instead of actually fixing the core problem of the doff system.
@DevolvedOne
The fact that they seem to blame it on a decimal point discrepancy three years old and right now, all of sudden, find the time to address this issue would seem to underline that yea.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
My long-winded point being, that of all things to spend time on, things like tweaking doff XP should be the very last thing on their 'to-do' list; and yet, surprisingly, these nerfs always take a front-seat somehow.
That said, given how efficient DOffing was for generating dilithium / XP compared to queued missions... it's probably not surprising that the Devs would come hunting for it at some point.
BTW, I stress "efficient"; the advantage of DOffing is that you can get results from small ammounts of time online, as long as you do it on a daily basis. Much greater rewards can be had from marathon multi-hour gaming sessions in a much smaller timeframe, but it's not as efficient.
I don't think you'll get that promise. Personally they've raised the level cap twice I think since I've been playing so they'll do it again. And we'll be seeing tier 7 ships at some point. Cryptic can't help themselves if they can turn into a cash grab they will do. It's in their nature.
My character Tsin'xing
I can get behind the thought behind this idea, though I wouldn't nerf pre-50 doffing. Its not that lucrative. And the ships before tier 4...
I dont see your problem
Agreed, fully.
If they properly tested and scaled things before releasing them, then we wouldn't see as many fixes being branded as "nerfs" and people getting upset about them.
Sure wish someone higher up in PWE would tell them to stop nerfing everything.
hell yeah , exactly what they said above.
Maybe it's time we went over his head. Players should start sending e-mails directly to PWE corporate expressing your concerns. One thing that will make a guy listen is when the Boss says something.
If 45+ pages of player comments expressing their dislike of the upcoming update this Thursday, doesn't at least cause pause and a reconsideration of our concerns. Then it is time to let our concerns be known to the next level ~~> PWE Corporate.
Already tried that as both a paying customer and at one point a share holder. You don't get squat either way. But by all means feel free to try.
The talks are going well so far. I'm getting a better picture of the pipeline and what's in development.
Who is the main CBS person that knows about sto? ^.^
thanks.. for efforts.. oh BTW .. tell them turn OFF the pipeline for a little while. At least until there has been more discussion about the nerfing of Doffing..
I'm glad to hear that.
I've been working on my KDF Delta Recruit who's only made it up to level 56 so far. I'm currently halfway through the Delta missions and have only gained 1 level since I entered the Delta Quadrant. I just went through the Kobali Prime missions up to the level 57 mission and I gained a grand total of...zero levels. That's including the missions that you can find on the way. So all these missions later all I have to show for it is a handful of exp and some vendor trash.
I can't say I find that very satisfying. I hope we can get this turned around soon, because right now the entire leveling and reward system in the Delta Quadrant just isn't fun. At least for me anyway.
Thanks for keeping us updated though. Do appreciate that.
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