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So, why is Lacarno-- er, I mean, "Tom Paris" a captain?

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  • thutmosis85thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    - Picard was basically an bored Archeologist & arrogant prick who got stabbed in the heart (people change, though)
    - Kirk bascially pissed of everyone in sight, was demoted several times & still managed to "stay" Admiral/Captain ...
    - Sisko was basically a war criminal ("In the pale Moonlight")

    -> but "Captain Paris" is supposed to unbelievable ? Suuure ....
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • variant37variant37 Member Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    Yes Admiral. Please go and kill the Vaadvaur, Admiral. Admiral, I need to speak with you. Admiral, the Kobali need our help.

    The Admiral sure can handle both Sela and that ignoring thing.


    You're not even mentioning the worst of it. Please turn on the slide projector for Tuvok, Admiral. Go and collect spices for Neelix, Admiral. Head down to engineering and fix my warp engine for me, Admiral.

    Heck, there is no way a Fleet Admiral would ever be joining away teams beaming down into hostile situations, that's far too dangerous for valuable flag officers, but your character leads your away team every single time.

    A massive suspension of disbelief is required for STO. :D
  • valianttomevalianttome Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    In, Endgame, Barclay was teaching at the Academy and was of Commander rank then. So, although he had issues, he still progressed from Lt. J.G. on the Enterprise-D (and still that rank when working on Pathfinder) to Commander by 2404 (Alternate Timeline).

    Barclay is more of a Researcher and Technician. Individuals like that rarely find themselves thanked and rewarded for their work. Promotion would be far slower for someone in that profession.

    Tom Paris next step from piloting Voyager would of been to move up to overseeing a department, advancing that 'leadership' skill Starfleet is looking for in their officers (remember pilots are under the Command Division). After that if he wasnt assigned to some desk job somewhere at Starfleet Command or some such quiet location. He'd eventually find himself as an Executive Officer on a Starship. And what would be the next step from there?

    Paris advancement through the ranks was much more straight forward than individuals like Barclay. Who may never see anything higher than Captain. Those on the 'frontlines' so to speak always have a fast track through promotion. And those in the support positions are the opposite. Promotion opportunities bottleneck at a lower level for support personnel vs those who are going to be in more active roles.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    variant37 wrote: »
    You're not even mentioning the worst of it. Please turn on the slide projector for Tuvok, Admiral. Go and collect spices for Neelix, Admiral. Head down to engineering and fix my warp engine for me, Admiral.

    Heck, there is no way a Fleet Admiral would ever be joining away teams beaming down into hostile situations, that's far too dangerous for valuable flag officers, but your character leads every single one of them.

    A massive suspension of disbelief is required for STO. :D
    It would be a hugely boring game if all you did was sit in a chair and wait for your underlings to come back and tell you what they did. At that point it would just be one big Doff-fest. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • variant37variant37 Member Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    It would be a hugely boring game if all you did was sit in a chair and wait for your underlings to come back and tell you what they did. At that point it would just be one big Doff-fest. :)

    Oh I agree, which is why the true maximum rank in STO is Captain, not Fleet Admiral. Playing an actual Fleet Admiral would be Paperwork Online, not Star Trek Online. That's why Kirk warned Picard to never take a promotion.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    variant37 wrote: »
    Oh I agree, which is why the true maximum rank in STO is Captain, not Fleet Admiral. Playing an actual Fleet Admiral would be Paperwork Online, not Star Trek Online. That's why Kirk warned Picard to never take a promotion.
    Even Captain Picard and Janeway were not sent on most away missions - nor do I remember Sisko doing a lot after becoming Captain. Captains doing all those things basically ended in Kirk's era. If you wanted to be true to the TNG/VOY/DS9 era you would need be limited to 1st Officer to do all the fun stuff. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • sonnikkusonnikku Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    alex284 wrote: »
    And they made Kira Nerys Kai in the game. I don't think we ever got an explanation about that one, but one would think that to become Kai you'd have to be a Vedek from the start, that it's not something you can transfer to later in life based on your military career.


    Not in the mirror universe! :D
  • valianttomevalianttome Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    angrytarg wrote: »
    In STO they're the new heroes of Starfleet though. Canon wise you are right, but I have the feeling that not many players actually know that anymore. I'm also not convinced Cryptic knew that, actually.

    Or maybe they thought that MACOs made a lot of sense and filled a gap in Starfleet. DS9 attempted to explain how Starfleet went about fighting ground fights during wars. But it only left us with more questions than answers. Like.

    How does Starfleet provide ground troops to a war when they seem so pressed for bodies on the very ships that would have to carry these troops?

    Where is Starfleet getting all of these ground troops and when there is no war...What is it that they do? Where are they assigned?

    MACOs would definitely make more sense when trying to answer questions like this. Theyd be a separate force from Starfleet Personnel. With a primary purpose of ground combat. And when not taking part in a war they would act as Peace Keepers and be stationed at their very own bases and as security personnel at Starfleet starbases and top secret research facilities. Performing much of the same tasks and duties the Marines perform during war and peacetime.

    I know everyone loves to subscribe to Roddenberrys vision for the future regarding Star Trek. But theres a lot of flaws in that future. And the man himself was known to change his mind on things multiple times. And he seemed to have a hard time deciding if there was a currency or not in Star Trek. So in this case. Im glad Cryptic made a call and decided MACOs had a place here.
  • pennylongpennylong Member Posts: 199 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I think he just decided to take advantage of last weeks bonus xp event.
  • jer5488jer5488 Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Just about every 'extension' of Trek has given Paris a promotion towards Command. In the Destiny novels he's first officer on Voyager. And even though he got in trouble - he did become a hell of an officer int he Delta Quadrant.
  • belidosbelidos Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Considering how fast we all reach admiral it wouldn't surprise me if every member of the crews of all the series were on the federation council by now lol
  • valianttomevalianttome Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    There are no MACOs in Starfleet. MACOs were a military organization from BEFORE the Starfleet Charter.

    I would like to point you to the book 'The Needs of the Many'.. A STO book. According to STO Lore. MACOs exist. And you will either have to headcanon your way around that or get over it.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I would like to point you to the book 'The Needs of the Many'.. A STO book. According to STO Lore. MACOs exist. And you will either have to headcanon your way around that or get over it.
    First, STO is not canon. Second, I was replying to someone who said Tom Paris was probably a MACO based on all the things he did in Voyager. There were no MACOs in canon at that time, thus Tom could not be a MACO.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • valianttomevalianttome Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    First, STO is not canon. Second, I was replying to someone who said Tom Paris was probably a MACO based on all the things he did in Voyager. There were no MACOs in canon at that time, thus Tom could not be a MACO.

    I'll point out again. STO Lore. Never said Hard Canon.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I'll point out again. STO Lore. Never said Hard Canon.
    And I will point out again that STO is not canon, is not even entirely owned by CBS -and thus will never be canon - and that the person I was replying to was talking about actual canon in Voyager rather then STO's version of canon. He was saying that Tom was an ex-MACO during Voyager.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • crappyturbocrappyturbo Member Posts: 201 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    To those who claimed that Barcley was just a lieutenant at the end of Voyager. Rewatch the episode where they send the EMH to Starfleet because of a programming issue with him, or at least I think it was a programming issue. Barcley was a Lt. Commander or Commander (I think) and that episode occurred before Endgame.
  • alex284alex284 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I think that it should be pointed out that Tom Paris was a doughy, whiny loser. He didn't get along with others and had no demonstrated leadership ability.

    Someone up-thread mentioned that he got a girl pregnant and married her (not in that order), so, I mean, wow, make him admiral of the ocean seas or something, no one has ever accomplished those things before.

    Personally, I don't believe people change. Not like that. Losers like Paris stay that way unless they go through some sort of extreme suffering, and Paris never did (like starvation, not like "My wife is prettier than me and smarter than me and more interesting than me but she doesn't follow my orders in a little shuttle craft race! My life is terrible."). He may want a more stable job since he has a family, but Starfleet doesn't care if a discharged then demoted officer wants to be captain.

    The dude's favorite passtime was watching TV in an age where no one watches TV. Nuff said.
  • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    edited April 2015
    By that Logic Seven of Nine and none of the Maquis officers should be in Starfleet.
    (Exept Chakotay) and we saw in endgame that Belena even became a Federation liason to the Klingon empire.
    As someone else mentioned it has been 32 years since Voyager returned and a lot can change in that time. and I don't know why you are arguing about this as Cryptic aren't going to change their story line because you believe there is an inconsistency, sorry to "burst your bubble" but you aren't that important.

    Um, what?

    Overreact much?
    d87926bd02aaa4eb12e2bb0fbc1f7061.jpg
  • mosquito214mosquito214 Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    There are some characters from the shows that haven't become top of the food chain in STO canon. Worf, of course, ditched Starfleet and sided with the Empire. Ezri Dax, one of the youngest characters in DS9, is retired by STO (though she did make captain beforehand). Data is a professor at Oxford after being captain of the Enterprise for a while. Picard is retired in France. Seven of Nine never joined Starfleet, and is a civilian scientist. The Doctor is, I think, still a Lt. Commander (after having no rank in Voyager, though). LaForge reached captain, but is now just a ship designer.

    Tom Paris being a captain isn't that far off to me. I don't want to use the term nepotism, but I'm sure his father being a decent admiral also had something to do with his promotions. Plus, the Voyager crew are sort of celebrities, which also probably helped a lot of them get early promotions.

    As for the Enterprise crew all becoming captains and more, well, they were already some of the finest officers in the fleet to get a post on the flagship, so it's not unbelievable most of the senior staff became captains and admirals.

    Certainly better than the previously-mentioned "Kai Kira". I mean, what?
  • variant37variant37 Member Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Plus, the Voyager crew are sort of celebrities, which also probably helped a lot of them get early promotions.

    It certainly helped Janeway! I'm sure Picard threw up in his mouth a little when Admiral Janeway called in to give him his orders in Nemesis.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I feel the opposite. Instead of 'Tom Paris somehow became a captain?', I think...'Tom Paris is ONLY a captain?'

    He's the most competent man in all of Starfleet (excluding your player character in terms of the story of course), and he's ONLY a captain?
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • variant37variant37 Member Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    mimey2 wrote: »
    I feel the opposite. Instead of 'Tom Paris somehow became a captain?', I think...'Tom Paris is ONLY a captain?'

    I felt the same way when they introduced Harry Kim into the game. I mean, we all know that Harry Kim is the galaxy's whipping boy, but even so, how is it we can manage to get promoted to Admiral in only a few weeks while he's been in Starfleet for 4 decades and remains a lowly Captain?
  • nickcastletonnickcastleton Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    alex284 wrote: »
    And they made Kira Nerys Kai in the game. I don't think we ever got an explanation about that one, but one would think that to become Kai you'd have to be a Vedek from the start, that it's not something you can transfer to later in life based on your military career.

    i think it happened in one of the novels that STO acknowledges, she had a crisis of faith after getting injured or something and left to join the veddekk assembly.
    0bzJyzP.gif





    "It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    variant37 wrote: »
    I felt the same way when they introduced Harry Kim into the game. I mean, we all know that Harry Kim is the galaxy's whipping boy, but even so, how is it we can manage to get promoted to Admiral in only a few weeks while he's been in Starfleet for 4 decades and remains a lowly Captain?
    As TNG showed us, promotions are given to the bold who do big/bold things. Timid Picard was 60 years old and had only advanced to Lt JG - 1 promotion over Ensign in nearly 40 years of service. Maybe Kim grew cautious over the years. He was not exactly known for being the biggest chance taker on Voyager. I would not have been surprised to see Paris advance faster then Kim based on personality alone. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • nickcastletonnickcastleton Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    variant37 wrote: »
    I felt the same way when they introduced Harry Kim into the game. I mean, we all know that Harry Kim is the galaxy's whipping boy, but even so, how is it we can manage to get promoted to Admiral in only a few weeks while he's been in Starfleet for 4 decades and remains a lowly Captain?

    hes a captain not an Admiral.
    0bzJyzP.gif





    "It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,482 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    hes a captain not an Admiral.

    read the post again... he is saying how harry can only be a cap after years and we hit admiral in a year.

    btw if you read the full post of paris... is says his rise and fall in ranks at star fleet. apparently he did make admiral at one time... got demoted, currently back to cap now.

    so tom paris is like james kirk. both made admiral but got demoted back down to cap :)
  • dpsloss88dpsloss88 Member Posts: 765 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    alex284 wrote: »
    And they made Kira Nerys Kai in the game. I don't think we ever got an explanation about that one, but one would think that to become Kai you'd have to be a Vedek from the start, that it's not something you can transfer to later in life based on your military career.

    WTF, that is redunculous!
  • variant37variant37 Member Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    As TNG showed us, promotions are given to the bold who do big/bold things. Timid Picard was 60 years old and had only advanced to Lt JG - 1 promotion over Ensign in nearly 40 years of service. Maybe Kim grew cautious over the years. He was not exactly known for being the biggest chance taker on Voyager. I would not have been surprised to see Paris advance faster then Kim based on personality alone. :)

    Good point, I had completely forgotten about Timid Picard and his lack of advancement.
  • midwayacemidwayace Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    And I will point out again that STO is not canon, is not even entirely owned by CBS -and thus will never be canon - and that the person I was replying to was talking about actual canon in Voyager rather then STO's version of canon. He was saying that Tom was an ex-MACO during Voyager.

    No cosmic1 the premise was he WAS and IS a MACO under Section 31 put there deliberately under Janeway's command. Starfleet didn't know if she could handle a command situation and he was placed there as a failsafe. That is my take on it. Otherwise why would Starfleet Command and The Federation Council deliberately take a hardened criminal and put him into a command situation? You can bet it took more than his dad trying to pull a few strings to get him out. He was serving life for murder not drunk driving.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    He was serving time for being responsible for other peoples death... Not murder.

    And being a drunk who can't follow orders, hardly qualifies as being a hardened criminal.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
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