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So, why is Lacarno-- er, I mean, "Tom Paris" a captain?

mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
I do get it on the surface level... this is the easiest way to get him into the game... but, why is Tom Paris a captain? Better yet, why is he still in Starfleet?

He never struck me as a "career" guy, despite his time on Voyager. That time changed him, matured him, and made him the man he always was supposed to be... great. That doesn't mean he needs to be in Starfleet to be that way.

He CERTAINLY doesn't need to be in the center seat. This is kinda my quiet problem with the Star Trek "extended universe" in the novels and what not: not everyone needs to be super-awesome at their job. Ezri Dax becomes a captain... Beverly Crusher becomes chief of Starfleet Medical (again)... Tuvok becomes an admiral... Jonathan Archer became Starfleet C-in-C, before becoming President of the UFP... BLAH. For once, I want to meet someone like Reg Barclay... and he's still a lieutenant.
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  • thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Rank mudflation.

    To be a Captain in new Star Fleet you have to be a Fleet Admiral.

    Someone with the actual Captain rank is basically an Ensign.
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    edited April 2015
    Rank mudflation.

    To be a Captain in new Star Fleet you have to be a Fleet Admiral.

    Someone with the actual Captain rank is basically an Ensign.

    So, I guess he took advantage of Starfleet's Bonus XP weekend? :P
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  • variant37variant37 Member Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    We haven't actually seen what he's the captain of.

    It could be an old freighter hauling a cargo full of rubber dog %$@& out of Hong Kong.
  • alex284alex284 Member Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    And they made Kira Nerys Kai in the game. I don't think we ever got an explanation about that one, but one would think that to become Kai you'd have to be a Vedek from the start, that it's not something you can transfer to later in life based on your military career.
  • induperatorinduperator Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    mhall85 wrote: »
    I do get it on the surface level... this is the easiest way to get him into the game... but, why is Tom Paris a captain? Better yet, why is he still in Starfleet?

    He never struck me as a "career" guy, despite his time on Voyager. That time changed him, matured him, and made him the man he always was supposed to be... great. That doesn't mean he needs to be in Starfleet to be that way.

    He CERTAINLY doesn't need to be in the center seat. This is kinda my quiet problem with the Star Trek "extended universe" in the novels and what not: not everyone needs to be super-awesome at their job. Ezri Dax becomes a captain... Beverly Crusher becomes chief of Starfleet Medical (again)... Tuvok becomes an admiral... Jonathan Archer became Starfleet C-in-C, before becoming President of the UFP... BLAH. For once, I want to meet someone like Reg Barclay... and he's still a lieutenant.

    My guess is obviously you didn't watch the entire voyager series. Tom Paris became quite a Star fleet officer,
    People's careers advance and they gain rank, eventually they get offered their own command.
  • senatorvreenaksenatorvreenak Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    mhall85 wrote: »
    I do get it on the surface level... this is the easiest way to get him into the game... but, why is Tom Paris a captain? Better yet, why is he still in Starfleet?

    He never struck me as a "career" guy, despite his time on Voyager. That time changed him, matured him, and made him the man he always was supposed to be... great. That doesn't mean he needs to be in Starfleet to be that way.

    He CERTAINLY doesn't need to be in the center seat. This is kinda my quiet problem with the Star Trek "extended universe" in the novels and what not: not everyone needs to be super-awesome at their job. Ezri Dax becomes a captain... Beverly Crusher becomes chief of Starfleet Medical (again)... Tuvok becomes an admiral... Jonathan Archer became Starfleet C-in-C, before becoming President of the UFP... BLAH. For once, I want to meet someone like Reg Barclay... and he's still a lieutenant.

    You do realise that 32 yars have passed since we last saw the Voyager crew and Lieutenant Barclay right?
    Barclay would have to be an extremely TRIBBLE poor officer to still be a puny lieutenant after 32 years.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,008 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    This struck me as odd from the beginning. Every character we had in the shows is around "for a long time" and they always assume that they basically stay on the path forever and naturally make it to the top tier of their trade. I udnerstand why, but it's a rather boring approach. I'm actually baffled they didn't make Worf a admiral in Starfleet, but I guess they chose the next best thing.

    I'd welcome characters returning, helping us - but maybe being not what they have been all the time. Paris would have made a great "Quatermain in space", actually.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    edited April 2015
    alex284 wrote: »
    And they made Kira Nerys Kai in the game. I don't think we ever got an explanation about that one, but one would think that to become Kai you'd have to be a Vedek from the start, that it's not something you can transfer to later in life based on your military career.

    Another good point... although, this one... I assumed she became so lonely/heartbroken over Odo that she "went to a convent." :P

    In seriousness, her faith was a big part of her character, so it makes some sense... but, becoming Kai? Yeah... that's a stretch.
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  • ussackermanussackerman Member Posts: 275 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2015
    You do realise that 32 yars have passed since we last saw the Voyager crew and Lieutenant Barclay right?
    Barclay would have to be an extremely TRIBBLE poor officer to still be a puny lieutenant after 32 years.

    In, Endgame, Barclay was teaching at the Academy and was of Commander rank then. So, although he had issues, he still progressed from Lt. J.G. on the Enterprise-D (and still that rank when working on Pathfinder) to Commander by 2404 (Alternate Timeline).
  • mhall85mhall85 Member Posts: 2,852 Arc User1
    edited April 2015
    My guess is obviously you didn't watch the entire voyager series. Tom Paris became quite a Star fleet officer,
    People's careers advance and they gain rank, eventually they get offered their own command.

    Unfortunately, I did watch all of Voyager. More than once. :P

    Paris was a convict, serving as an "observer." He was only given a field promotion because Voyager needed officers. IIRC, he (like B'lanna and Chuckles) didn't even graduate from the academy. None of that warrants him remaining in Starfleet... certainly rising to the rank of captain. He never showed interest in command.

    You do realise that 32 yars have passed since we last saw the Voyager crew and Lieutenant Barclay right?
    Barclay would have to be an extremely TRIBBLE poor officer to still be a puny lieutenant after 32 years.

    Um... that was kinda the point of his character, LOL.

    And, I would disagree... rank isn't everything. He could just be really good at his job. That's a fine thing to be. You don't need to be Master-General-of-Awesome to be a good officer.
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  • bernatkbernatk Member Posts: 1,089 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2015
    My guess is obviously you didn't watch the entire voyager series. Tom Paris became quite a Star fleet officer,
    People's careers advance and they gain rank, eventually they get offered their own command.

    Yeah, Ensign Paris and Ensign Kim got their command ... roflmao...

    Watch again Endgame. Paris is a writer. I dunno how Ensign Kim got his command tho lol...
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  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    bernatk wrote: »
    Yeah, Ensign Paris and Ensign Kim got their command ... roflmao...

    Watch again Endgame. Paris is a writer. I dunno how Ensign Kim got his command tho lol...
    Endgame is a "what if" episode that never ends up happening. The fact that Voyager returned in 7 years instead of 23 makes a big difference in each of the character's lives.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The O.P. brings up an important yet annoying point...the ONLY reason McNeil ended up being Tom Paris instead of Nick Locarno was simply because of having to pay the writer of the TNG episode he came from. That's it.

    Always bugged the heck outta me. I'm sure he would have taken a one-time payout.
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  • bernatkbernatk Member Posts: 1,089 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    Endgame is a "what if" episode that never ends up happening. The fact that Voyager returned in 7 years instead of 23 makes a big difference in each of the character's lives.

    Yep, it's *a* possible outcome that Cryptic is using happily.
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  • section31agent#8506 section31agent Member Posts: 665 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Okay wait a second... his dad was a admiral to begin with so he had some string pulling power. Then add in the fact he actually did end up serving for oh 7+ years as a Starfleet officer. Yes he started out as a convict but grew up during his time in the Delta Quadrant. He even got married and started a family so why wouldn't he want a stable career to take care of them?

    As a matter of fact the more you study him you begin to wonder if he was a MACO before getting kicked out of Starfleet Academy. He was a crack shot, a medic, test pilot, and all around tactical leader. Remember he took a handful of Talaxians and retook Voyager from the Kazon. He matured over the show and earned the right to be a Captain. For all we know he was Section 31 put there to test Janeway's loyalty to Starfleet. Isn't that the Star Trek way?
  • induperatorinduperator Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    mhall85 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I did watch all of Voyager. More than once. :P

    Paris was a convict, serving as an "observer." He was only given a field promotion because Voyager needed officers. IIRC, he (like B'lanna and Chuckles) didn't even graduate from the academy. None of that warrants him remaining in Starfleet... certainly rising to the rank of captain. He never showed interest in command.

    By that Logic Seven of Nine and none of the Maquis officers should be in Starfleet.
    (Exept Chakotay) and we saw in endgame that Belena even became a Federation liason to the Klingon empire.
    As someone else mentioned it has been 32 years since Voyager returned and a lot can change in that time. and I don't know why you are arguing about this as Cryptic aren't going to change their story line because you believe there is an inconsistency, sorry to "burst your bubble" but you aren't that important.
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  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    arnthebard wrote: »
    As a matter of fact the more you study him you begin to wonder if he was a MACO before getting kicked out of Starfleet Academy. He was a crack shot, a medic, test pilot, and all around tactical leader. Remember he took a handful of Talaxians and retook Voyager from the Kazon. He matured over the show and earned the right to be a Captain. For all we know he was Section 31 put there to test Janeway's loyalty to Starfleet. Isn't that the Star Trek way?
    There are no MACOs in Starfleet. MACOs were a military organization from BEFORE the Starfleet Charter.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • variant37variant37 Member Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    I envy him. Can my characters' admiral thing "not work out", too, please?

    Pretty please?

    Just ignore your rank. We all effectively operate as captains anyway, in command of a single starship.

    If my character was really a Fleet Admiral he'd be flying a desk and in command of a starbase or a task force or something similar.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,008 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    There are no MACOs in Starfleet. MACOs were a military organization from BEFORE the Starfleet Charter.

    In STO they're the new heroes of Starfleet though. Canon wise you are right, but I have the feeling that not many players actually know that anymore. I'm also not convinced Cryptic knew that, actually.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    angrytarg wrote: »
    In STO they're the new heroes of Starfleet though. Canon wise you are right, but I have the feeling that not many players actually know that anymore. I'm also not convinced Cryptic knew that, actually.
    Well, to be fair, if I had only ever watched TOS then I would assume that every Starfleet Captain had to be a judo expert to get the job. :D
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    mhall85 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, I did watch all of Voyager. More than once. :P

    Paris was a convict, serving as an "observer." He was only given a field promotion because Voyager needed officers. IIRC, he (like B'lanna and Chuckles) didn't even graduate from the academy. None of that warrants him remaining in Starfleet... certainly rising to the rank of captain. He never showed interest in command.

    Paris actually did graduate from the academy. He was dishonourably discharged from Starfleet.

    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tom_Paris

    Don't confuse Tom Paris with Nicholas Locarno. They were just played by the same actor.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    greyhame3 wrote: »
    Don't confuse Tom Paris with Nicholas Locarno. They were just played by the same actor.
    The Voyager part was actually originally written for Nick Locarno, but then the producers learned they would have to pay royalties to Ron and Nareen (the writers of The First Duty) for years to use Nick and so they changed his name and background; and thus Tom Paris was born. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • section31agent#8506 section31agent Member Posts: 665 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Perhaps Tom Paris was the Section 31 operative name for Nick Locarno.....
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,008 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    Well, to be fair, if I had only ever watched TOS then I would assume that every Starfleet Captain had to be a judo expert to get the job. :D

    I wouldn't trust anybody else with captaining my starship :D Well, maybe a Vulcan with knowledge of the ancient "double-fist-overhead-slam" technique :D
    greyhame3 wrote: »
    Paris actually did graduate from the academy. He was dishonourably discharged from Starfleet.

    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tom_Paris

    Don't confuse Tom Paris with Nicholas Locarno. They were just played by the same actor.

    Tom Paris was supposed to be Nicholas Locarno, though. It was only changed after the first episodes have been written, supposedly because they didn't want to pay royalty to the author who invented Locarno. But the whole story makes a lot more sense with that knowledge. In-universe, though, you are right.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    The Voyager part was actually originally written for Nick Locarno, but then the producers learned they would have to pay royalties to Ron and Nareen (the writers of The First Duty) for years to use Nick and so they changed his name and background; and thus Tom Paris was born. :)
    That would explain the same actor.

    But Tom Paris still graduated from the academy. He just didn't stay long in Starfleet. Though he got drummed out for a similar reason, so they didn't change the back story that much.
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  • welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    The Voyager part was actually originally written for Nick Locarno, but then the producers learned they would have to pay royalties to Ron and Nareen (the writers of The First Duty) for years to use Nick and so they changed his name and background; and thus Tom Paris was born. :)

    *MINOR* changes: Both got into trouble, both had dads that were admirals.

    /still bugged by this
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  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    *MINOR* changes: Both got into trouble, both had dads that were admirals.

    /still bugged by this
    I would say the only real change is that Tom finished the academy before getting someone killed in a piloting accident.
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