My guess is that the level 60 + specialisation grind are a big part of why the PVP population isn't what it used to be.
Take a look at this graph showing the number of weekly submissions to the leaderboard. Obviously this data is far from representative for the population, but other than the flatlining in the wake of Delta Rising, you can also see a big drop in late 2013. The beginning of this low activity phase coincides with the release of the fleet spire (which for the first time brought better tac consoles that had a major impact on PVP) and its end coincides with the time when the first fleets were completing their spires and making spire tac consoles available to the masses.
If something as comparatively simple as the fleet spire had such a profound impact on PVP participation, then it's really no surprise that DR utterly destroyed it.
Wow. looking at that chart that is just seriously sad.
PvP in STO has been reduced to the absolute minimum since end 2014..
+ the insane grind
+ the insane imbalance
+ the new untested skills
+ the new p2w ships and items
+ all the new bugs
If you would want to write down why PvP is unplayable atm, you'd have to write an entire book - it's really that much wrong with STO.
Those too indeed. I logged in yesterday to see how things were going.
I'm going to leave this to your own judgement: command ships were launched in the first mid of february, and the Presidio two months later still has broken Emergency Power to Engines FX on the nacelles that does not follow them in length.
How can I even feel like coming back if they can't address such a stupid bug? Two months, and we're still here.
I mean fictionally we're still here. With "here" I mean witnessing how much it takes them to fix it.
Actually I'm in other games, one of them is where I've restarted my dead fleet.
The fact that PvP is unplayable is amplified by a solid wall of upgrading costs, 50 meters thick and 100 meters tall of solid neutronium.
its pretty disgusting how P2W upgrades are. mk 14 is like 175%, if mk 12 is 100% part of why i feel its so pointless to play at all until i have the disposable income to at least upgrade weapons for 1 character. but then what, play a game with ruined pvp, and all these
Why is pvp dead but forum pvp section still alive?
Anger, most likely. Anger at Cryptic and Geko for destroying this game. Anger that something that had so much potential and that was so unique was destroyed by a cash grab business model. Anger over the neglect, the broken promises, everything... and behind it all, a sincere desire to be able to enjoy this game again.
Energy Refrequencer (Passive) Receive a portion of your outgoing damage as hull healing to you.
Particle Generator Amplifier (Passive)
+Bonus damage Exotic Damage
MOAR op Valdore Console like stuff...
Tier 4 Space
Radiant Detonation Matrix (Passive)
Chance on energy weapon attacks to cause a moderate amount of radiation damage in an AoE and remove buffs from affected targets.
Destabilizing Phase Array (Passive)
When damaged, gain Immunity to all damage for a short time.
May occur once every 60 seconds.
MOAR nukes pls!
Tier 5 Space
Deploy Sensor Interference Platform (Click)
Creates a platform that taunts nearby enemies and debuffs enemies that attack any target other than itself.
Even more nukes yay
Looks like cryptic is thinking PvP is still alive and they are trying to kill it even harder :rolleyes:
My guess is that the level 60 + specialisation grind are a big part of why the PVP population isn't what it used to be.
Seems likely.
Maybe a PvP influx could be increased if there was significant skill point gains possible in PvP? Sure, you still don't have the most powerful spec power-up, but you at least you work towards that goal.
Imagine if people were PvPing to grind skill points, instead of doing Argala or Borg Red Alerts.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Because people aren't playing.
Why aren't people playing?
because their friends told them PvP is dead.
It's kind of a recusive loop-yes, the Endgame is filled with half-finished and unfinished abilities, Yes, they ended the fEd/klingon war so they could ignore sixteen percent of the over-all player base and around 25% to 30% of the PvP playerbase (well, ignore them more than they were before).
I think of it this way: in the last year, D'Angelo and Geko, working together, scored 15-0 against the PvP Community and the KDF community-with the help of PvP'ers and KDF'ers.
It may be time to stop letting those two call the tune, hey?
we have 3 space maps and 2 ground maps, and two space open zones and one ground open zone.
and a problem. the problem is power-creep where nobody's working on the workarounds to beat it without relying on it.
we used to have this-there was a time when somebody would show up with a ship-loaded full of uni consoles and we'd spank 'em like a naughty child.
what happened to that attitude? There used to be a whole HOST of top-tier PvP fleets-who didn't rely on top-tier gear, but rather on skill and cleverness, to win.
I recall there used to be this organized effort called "PvP Bootcamp", taught people how to build, how to fly, how to fight.
I'm no good at it. I admit being no good, but there are, or rather maybe WERE players that could do it.
Like with the effort I ended up starting with the KDF side, I think there's a need for that in PvP land-an active effort to recruit new players, get them hooked early in the leveling process, teach them the teamwork and the workarounds, and build up numbers. As long as "PvP is Dead" is the refrain, it will be.
and you'll have a continuously smaller and smaller circle of people to fight.
Just something to think about...
I don't want to be mean or anything but this was just hurting me...
There are actually 2 ground open zones... one it Eta Eradani and one in Omega Leonas (leonis? leonos?)
Edit: And there are 3 ground arena maps and 1 assault map, so 4 in total.
Ouch. That hurt. I feel like I just got shot by a BO3 Epic quality pvp dual beam bank that's antiproton. Oh, and they had alpha and omega up, tac team, crit severity consoles...
Ouch. That hurt. I feel like I just got shot by a BO3 Epic quality pvp dual beam bank that's antiproton. Oh, and they had alpha and omega up, tac team, crit severity consoles...
Come on man some of us are hanging on.
Keyword: some....
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Because people aren't playing.
Why aren't people playing?
because their friends told them PvP is dead.
It's kind of a recusive loop-yes, the Endgame is filled with half-finished and unfinished abilities, Yes, they ended the fEd/klingon war so they could ignore sixteen percent of the over-all player base and around 25% to 30% of the PvP playerbase (well, ignore them more than they were before).
I think of it this way: in the last year, D'Angelo and Geko, working together, scored 15-0 against the PvP Community and the KDF community-with the help of PvP'ers and KDF'ers.
It may be time to stop letting those two call the tune, hey?
we have 3 space maps and 2 ground maps, and two space open zones and one ground open zone.
and a problem. the problem is power-creep where nobody's working on the workarounds to beat it without relying on it.
we used to have this-there was a time when somebody would show up with a ship-loaded full of uni consoles and we'd spank 'em like a naughty child.
what happened to that attitude? There used to be a whole HOST of top-tier PvP fleets-who didn't rely on top-tier gear, but rather on skill and cleverness, to win.
I recall there used to be this organized effort called "PvP Bootcamp", taught people how to build, how to fly, how to fight.
I'm no good at it. I admit being no good, but there are, or rather maybe WERE players that could do it.
Like with the effort I ended up starting with the KDF side, I think there's a need for that in PvP land-an active effort to recruit new players, get them hooked early in the leveling process, teach them the teamwork and the workarounds, and build up numbers. As long as "PvP is Dead" is the refrain, it will be.
and you'll have a continuously smaller and smaller circle of people to fight.
PvP IS dead because craptic made it so. Telling yourself or others it's not without changing the base, in this respects power creep and the endless ammounts of uni consoles, NOTHING will alter that perception.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Grants a free Beam Overload I Mode any time another rank of Beam Overload is activated.
Can only occur once per 30 sec
Is that double tab?
Yes.
The very same BO that they went out of their way to nerf, because you shouldn't be able to get 2 back to back hits like that... before they added 100% CrtH.
blah blah blah ..
Truth is PVP is Dead because it got old, most casual gammers really don't want to do it. If you only have a hour or two to play each night no one wants to waste the time pvp-ing it is allot more fun to do pve. Beside the normal TRIBBLE about folks ******** about who has more powerful weapons and who has more powerful ships, the truth is it just got old. Look at other games online most PVP games are having a hard time retaining customer base. Customer base =$$$ So since most gammers are now casual and not hard core PVPers it makes great $$$ sense to make more PVE games.
simples.... P2W ruined pvp, the grind also, I used to pvp for hours with pandas, no interest in the PVE, I have 38 characters over a few accounts (8) once grind kicked in went to 4 toons max
simples.... P2W ruined pvp, the grind also, I used to pvp for hours with pandas, no interest in the PVE, I have 38 characters over a few accounts (8) once grind kicked in went to 4 toons max
rip toons!
there are pvp games f2p without grind....there is no such thing as grind in pvp.What killed pvp is the thing called geko.
Look at other games online most PVP games are having a hard time retaining customer base. Customer base =$$$ So since most gammers are now casual and not hard core PVPers it makes great $$$ sense to make more PVE games.
What a load of utter TRIBBLE.
Best selling games for several years now are games with strong competitive MP/PvP component.
And in MMO world as well most popular games are PvP games.
Other bestsellers are legendary franchises with great singleplayer campaigns and gameplay.
STO now has nothing from those 3 elements.
BTW
Star Wars Battlefront 3 trailer
40 players competitive MP/PvP battlefield style with RPG elements + space fighter MP, 1st and 3rd person mode, new gen graphics in Frostbite3 engine. comes out in November.
GTA V now on PC, Witcher 3 next month. Bloodborne one of best ARPGs now on PS4, Mass Effect 4 coming soon.
MGS V also in November. When you look at any of these games you see just how much STO is outdated in all departments.
I think what is really a shame is that PVP actually died back in March 2010, Season ONE. Because that was when they released FvF and should have been the starting clue that everything was Fed based..and despite any true additions to PVP (Which have been about 2.. maybe 3 depending on if you count PVP Queue updates..which then broke..)
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Traits and Specializations, thats why. When people PVP, before they go into a battle they do thier best to have the best advantage to win and right now that consists of the best ship traits and maxed specialzations. That takes time alot of time. So the reason PVP is dead is becasue all the PVP players are building up thier traits and spec trees so when they do PVP it won't be a slaughter fest.
In the mind of a PVP player they think that thier enemy has all the Good traits, ships and a max specialization tree. So when they pvp they want to at least be on a equal playing field. PVP is dead because of that.
Give it about 1 more month and you will see a comeback to PVP like never before. Once everyone gets all the Traits and specs they need/want. Then the PVP arenas will be back in full force. That is of coures if the people haven't got burned out and quit before reaching Godhood with all the new stuff.
Give it about 1 more month and you will see a comeback to PVP like never before. Once everyone gets all the Traits and specs they need/want. Then the PVP arenas will be back in full force. That is of coures if the people haven't got burned out and quit before reaching Godhood with all the new stuff.
Except that we're not. We're simply not playing. A few are dabbling, but not many. We're gone.
Comments
Wow. looking at that chart that is just seriously sad.
PvP in STO has been reduced to the absolute minimum since end 2014..
damn.
The fact that PvP is unplayable is amplified by a solid wall of upgrading costs, 50 meters thick and 100 meters tall of solid neutronium.
+ the insane imbalance
+ the new untested skills
+ the new p2w ships and items
+ all the new bugs
If you would want to write down why PvP is unplayable atm, you'd have to write an entire book - it's really that much wrong with STO.
Those too indeed. I logged in yesterday to see how things were going.
I'm going to leave this to your own judgement: command ships were launched in the first mid of february, and the Presidio two months later still has broken Emergency Power to Engines FX on the nacelles that does not follow them in length.
How can I even feel like coming back if they can't address such a stupid bug? Two months, and we're still here.
I mean fictionally we're still here. With "here" I mean witnessing how much it takes them to fix it.
Actually I'm in other games, one of them is where I've restarted my dead fleet.
its pretty disgusting how P2W upgrades are. mk 14 is like 175%, if mk 12 is 100% part of why i feel its so pointless to play at all until i have the disposable income to at least upgrade weapons for 1 character. but then what, play a game with ruined pvp, and all these
problems?
If you think that's bad, that's for existing players with a bunch of stuff done already. Now think how far a new player has to go.
Problem is Delta Recruit will last for a limited amount of time, this means the gap is going to be extreme once again next month.
Anger, most likely. Anger at Cryptic and Geko for destroying this game. Anger that something that had so much potential and that was so unique was destroyed by a cash grab business model. Anger over the neglect, the broken promises, everything... and behind it all, a sincere desire to be able to enjoy this game again.
2 much hax abusing sry
Tier 2 Space
Energy Refrequencer (Passive)
Receive a portion of your outgoing damage as hull healing to you.
Particle Generator Amplifier (Passive)
+Bonus damage Exotic Damage
MOAR op Valdore Console like stuff...
Tier 4 Space
Radiant Detonation Matrix (Passive)
Chance on energy weapon attacks to cause a moderate amount of radiation damage in an AoE and remove buffs from affected targets.
Destabilizing Phase Array (Passive)
When damaged, gain Immunity to all damage for a short time.
May occur once every 60 seconds.
MOAR nukes pls!
Tier 5 Space
Deploy Sensor Interference Platform (Click)
Creates a platform that taunts nearby enemies and debuffs enemies that attack any target other than itself.
Even more nukes yay
Looks like cryptic is thinking PvP is still alive and they are trying to kill it even harder :rolleyes:
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x172/NerikK/-1_zpse739ed2d.jpg
Seems likely.
Maybe a PvP influx could be increased if there was significant skill point gains possible in PvP? Sure, you still don't have the most powerful spec power-up, but you at least you work towards that goal.
Imagine if people were PvPing to grind skill points, instead of doing Argala or Borg Red Alerts.
It would be a big incentive to get back into pew pew business again.
I don't want to be mean or anything but this was just hurting me...
There are actually 2 ground open zones... one it Eta Eradani and one in Omega Leonas (leonis? leonos?)
Edit: And there are 3 ground arena maps and 1 assault map, so 4 in total.
HHAHAHAHAHAH!
Oki, im off again.
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Ouch. That hurt. I feel like I just got shot by a BO3 Epic quality pvp dual beam bank that's antiproton. Oh, and they had alpha and omega up, tac team, crit severity consoles...
Come on man some of us are hanging on.
Keyword: some....
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Yes.
The very same BO that they went out of their way to nerf, because you shouldn't be able to get 2 back to back hits like that... before they added 100% CrtH.
Truth is PVP is Dead because it got old, most casual gammers really don't want to do it. If you only have a hour or two to play each night no one wants to waste the time pvp-ing it is allot more fun to do pve. Beside the normal TRIBBLE about folks ******** about who has more powerful weapons and who has more powerful ships, the truth is it just got old. Look at other games online most PVP games are having a hard time retaining customer base. Customer base =$$$ So since most gammers are now casual and not hard core PVPers it makes great $$$ sense to make more PVE games.
rip toons!
there are pvp games f2p without grind....there is no such thing as grind in pvp.What killed pvp is the thing called geko.
What a load of utter TRIBBLE.
Best selling games for several years now are games with strong competitive MP/PvP component.
And in MMO world as well most popular games are PvP games.
Other bestsellers are legendary franchises with great singleplayer campaigns and gameplay.
STO now has nothing from those 3 elements.
BTW
Star Wars Battlefront 3 trailer
40 players competitive MP/PvP battlefield style with RPG elements + space fighter MP, 1st and 3rd person mode, new gen graphics in Frostbite3 engine. comes out in November.
GTA V now on PC, Witcher 3 next month. Bloodborne one of best ARPGs now on PS4, Mass Effect 4 coming soon.
MGS V also in November. When you look at any of these games you see just how much STO is outdated in all departments.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
In the mind of a PVP player they think that thier enemy has all the Good traits, ships and a max specialization tree. So when they pvp they want to at least be on a equal playing field. PVP is dead because of that.
Give it about 1 more month and you will see a comeback to PVP like never before. Once everyone gets all the Traits and specs they need/want. Then the PVP arenas will be back in full force. That is of coures if the people haven't got burned out and quit before reaching Godhood with all the new stuff.
Except that we're not. We're simply not playing. A few are dabbling, but not many. We're gone.