I dunno...I tried PvPing ground a couple times (yeah yeah "LOLground", whatever...) but was overwhelmed by kitswitchers and the likes.
yeah yeah "Learn to Ground" is next, yeah? lol
I know some of these exploits have been rectified but it left a bad taste in the mouth when its just the same 5 peepz everytime.
If PvP could be made more accessible, it's be cool. this is coming from a guy that tries it every now an again for different gameplay and challenge. But it jsut kinda left a bad impression.
I might have been playing this game today if...
They hadn't put a price tag on PVP
Forced a Grind that they continue to make longer and only benefits players who have "no life".
Continued to increase the power creep that caters to PVE with no regard to balance in PVP.
They actually cared about PVP to give more improvements then Shuttle PVP that some one must have created on their spare time.
Had created a way to both PVE and PVP feel like there was a true War with Federation vs. Klingons.
Had made it so that STFs had meaning beyond just another point grind for personal grinds. For example: Even though that cool awesome gear can be grinded out, can also be dropped from STF X, Y, or Z.
Had actually added PVP to the Fleet System for Fleet vs. Fleet PVP.
Made Life time Subscriptions feel more worth it then just another mild upgrade that even subscribers can access.
Yeah... then I might have continued to play STO, and even PVPed in it.
I gave them 4 years to get their stuff together. I have a life time sub, so I can't say I've "Quit" plying. But I can say I have lost compete faith in Cryptic Studios to even bother doing anything other then letting my Stipend build up, see something I want, waste the stipend, then log out again.
Because so far, there isn't a single new grind they are releasing that is making me want to dust off the game and play it.
So go ahead, love STO. Just don't try to force it the disgusting product that Cryptic has put together that veterans have finally gotten tired of dealing with. :rolleyes:
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Take a look at my posts, eh? Notice what's included in pretty much each of them there? Take a look at your posts, eh? Then look up the definition of ranting, yeah? And maybe the quote "The lady doth protest too much, methinks..." and how some of your posts are starting to come off like, eh?
Take a look at my posts, eh? Notice what's included in pretty much each of them there? Take a look at your posts, eh? Then look up the definition of ranting, yeah? And maybe the quote "The lady doth protest too much, methinks..." and how some of your posts are starting to come off like, eh?
lol think you should stick to math virus. At least its something you're somewhat good at, eh?
I'm at a loss as to how anyone can force you to do anything wrt this,or any other game.
I mean, I suppose they could 'force you' to leave with an account ban/IP ban, but that's about the limit.
If you don't do the grind, your not going to be able to participate in PVP at the level that is required of you in PVP. Especially the open Queues/"Open"PVP zone(s)
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
If the tone of recent posts does not change for the better, it will be this thread that is dead. Two of you in particular need to stop replying to each other. I will not name names, but after this I will be issuing warnings and editing posts.
If someone posts something offensive or that makes you mad, do not reply. If it violates forum rules, report it and one of the mods will investigate.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Awww, we could have done the bob and weave thing - made it epic...
Things start to get a bit out of hand...next thing...next thing...working against getting caught up in moderation while dancing up to the line...next thing...next thing...bob and weave, bob and weave...wheeee. Oh well.
Awww, we could have done the bob and weave thing - made it epic...
Things start to get a bit out of hand...next thing...next thing...working against getting caught up in moderation while dancing up to the line...next thing...next thing...bob and weave, bob and weave...wheeee. Oh well.
Nah just scrape his paint follwed by an up yours ship to ship text message. Don't forget to exchange insurance info when scraping the paint of his ship.
Nah just scrape his paint follwed by an up yours ship to ship text message. Don't forget to exchange insurance info when scraping the paint of his ship.
This is STO...we don't scrape paint...we scrape shields!
I have to wonder about that particular ability, to be honest. Is it for the folks that can fly to give them something cool to do or is it more a case of making the folks that can't fly feel better about what they're doing?
I had the pleasure of meeting Hannibal on TS a few months ago And we discussed such matches.
More of our matches are on Twitch and I'd have to get the info from my puter back in the states as I'm on vacation right now.
Yea I remember, it was a pleasure contacting you and approaching to get to know each other.
It's a shame that you were incapable of participating in most of the bigger tourneys back then due to the difference in time zone that prevented you from fielding your entire team mainly at the weekend when most of the tourneys were held as you pointed it out to me.
We've always had good games against the vipers and parted on amicable terms after each encounter Good pvp memories...
Heh, keep an eye out on some of Trendy's posts, you can fake getting in after the lock - cause there will be the post about the thread being closed but it's not closed right then. Like I said earlier in this thread, I got old and don't have the magic skills for stuff like that.
C'mon, you know discussing moderation could kill this thread off while there is still plenty of fun to be had in it. There's a chance for this thread to carry on in its informative and positive manner so that folks might find what they're looking for out of the game or find those that want the same thing so they might come together and present a more unified and coherent voice for what they'd hope be done.
C'mon, you know discussing moderation could kill this thread off while there is still plenty of fun to be had in it. There's a chance for this thread to carry on in its informative and positive manner so that folks might find what they're looking for out of the game or find those that want the same thing so they might come together and present a more unified and coherent voice for what they'd hope be done.
honestly, forum pvp aside,
I had alot of respect for you for years, I never slammed you on the forums before because you did alot for helping new players, being glue for fleets, and being an excellent pvper- you vented from time to time, but who didnt? totally justifiable
but, for the last year+ you have become a bitter version of what once was a very insightful, funny guy
You don't know me, you have no idea but I suppose I can't blame you for that.
Yup, being nice and friendly, making friends, diplomatic, helping out everyone and their mothers, yada yada yada, makes you popular.
But that also makes you the victim of people who take advantage of you and your good will. Happened to me in so many ways but don't worry, I am not gonna bore you to death with old stories. I am not complaining or anything, I just do not understand why I always should be the nice guy.
People said to me so many times: "Can't you just cut him some slack, he has depressive disorder / he is an alcoholic / he had a tough childhood / he has other special needs / he is just an a-hole."
And I did cut a lot of slack. The nice and friendly part, which you appearantly still remember, right?
But seriously though, to all the nutjobs I had to deal with: Is this a madhouse, do I look like your therapist? Fine, you have daddy issues, I get it. But at one point, enough is enough man.
People want you to accommodate them, and to smile at them, while they stab and twist a knife into your chest.
You know what the biggest sin is?
Winning. Winning and not apologizing for it.
It makes people hate you.
One example:
I am pugging'lone and come across a premade, a casual PvP fleet. They shoot me, I don't die. They chase me, I retreat. They get mad, real mad, supper bosted mad, berate me with every word in the book, but they Just. Can't. Kill. Me. They get so uber mad, they yell bring yo' fleet, hide-yo-kids, private match, winner gets 500 mil EC. And we pwn them badly, but instead of money I only get a tell: "We're gonna hate you forever."
Then they go to the forum and start the slander, flamewar and all, til the thread gets deleted.
Was I part of flamewars? Sure. But I never drew first blood. Go ahead, find me an example where I did. I was never the one who instigated the trouble, never bashed new players or new fleets for being new. Go ahead find me an example where I allegedly did.
You are right that I indeed did change my demeanor at a certain point. And that was a conscious decision. But not out of bitterness, it was out of my desire to save my sanity. If that means to be perceived as polarizing, so be it. I'm done having consideration for special-needs people. I'm tired of people expecting me to kumbaya, when all what some detractors want is to bash me, bash my fleet, bash my friends.
Not gonna take TRIBBLE from people with issues. If that makes me evul in the eyes of some, I couldn't care less... :P
Actually, it's not that difficult to get along with me, as long as you don't expect me to put up a fake smile while trying to stab and twist a knife into me, we could get along just fine.
As a long time PvPer in the game (since beta) who has recently quit pretty much, no one knows what you are talking about better than I do. I held on for years hoping that cryptic would give the pvp community what it deserves and needs, but promise after promise became outright lies, and I got tired of it. Now, the new meta has utterly destroyed the game. If you want to continue the fight, more power to you.
Cryptic and PWE has destroyed the pvp side of this game, and they did it on purpose. I can't believe we have an online game to play a bunch of NPCs.. what do we need an online game for in that case?
Any of the current good pvpers only rose to power because all the old ones left
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
You are right that I indeed did change my demeanor at a certain point. And that was a conscious decision. But not out of bitterness, it was out of my desire to save my sanity. If that means to be perceived as polarizing, so be it. I'm done having consideration for special-needs people. I'm tired of people expecting me to kumbaya, when all what some detractors want is to bash me, bash my fleet, bash my friends.
Not gonna take TRIBBLE from people with issues. If that makes me evul in the eyes of some, I couldn't care less... :P
Actually, it's not that difficult to get along with me, as long as you don't expect me to put up a fake smile while trying to stab and twist a knife into me, we could get along just fine.
Hear hear.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
When was the last time you worked with a new player before they reached endgame?
PvP isn't something you can just master in an evening of grinding, or a lifetime of NPC Target-practice.
To teach the right mnidset and instincts, you need to work at lower levels first-when I first joined STO, there were always KDF vs. Fed games at lower levels-I started at Level Five.
It wasn't THAT terribly long ago-the end of season 5 start of 6 was when I first logged on. It may seem like ages to some players, but the fact is, it's less than you think.
My latest toons (Predating Delta even) couldn't find a match the entire levelling process-and the really broken **** doesn't EXIST at low level.
PvE has never been an adequate way to prepare for pvp. It wasn't in late season 5, it isn't now.
all it can get you, is gear. Knowing what to do with the gear needs to happen much, much earlier.
If you want to break the paradigm, you need to think outside of the "Grind it as fast as you can to endgame" skinner-box everyone seems to be trapped in.
There's going to be a whole Cryptic Event about new alts, maybe it's a good time to lower your sights from "competing at endgame" with a vanishing pool of players driven off by the grind that exists at endgame and start 'growing your own' by reaching out to newbies and showing them a different way-a way that isn't the 'Solo-game online-grind' way.
It's a simple thing-the lower level you start in this game, the better you'll be at endgame regardless of power-creep and cheeze.
A good basic build can leverage more than someone who's read a forum post (or debate) and tried to emulate it without the basic grounding on how and why things work-and that basic grounding is best learned before you hit a level where lots of lockbox and cross-faction and Rep and Specializations exist.
seriously, if you don't WANT PvP to be dead, it's going to take doing some legwork, and interacting, and maybe alting to get matches at lower levels, so that you've grown capable opponents at HIGHER levels who aren't super-dependent on gear or unfinished, broken, or goofy mechanics that will be "Nerfed" when the next-big-thing shows up.
If you want Dev attention to PvP, just like wanting to shift the Devs on KDF, you need to GROW, not shrink, the pool of players. When you grow the pool of PvP'ers, you create pressure on the Devs to actually address problems-because it stops being confined to an easily ignored minority.
PvP needs, if it wants to survive, to be noisy, active and actively recruiting-and by that, I mean recruiting at all levels, not just the 50-60 range that's socked with tedium and grind.
As PvP players, we are our content. It's comfortable to lounge at the top with all the goodies-but right now, you don't have anyone to impress with all the gear you've acquired through rampant power-creep and dedicated grinding.
Nobody Cares about your brand-new JHSS with the Epic gear and all the pilot and Intel spec finished and the stacked Reciprocity/All Hands/Battle-ready and other T5 ****-because you can't use it on yourself and get the rush of beating an equal opponent (or even an opponent who's trying.)
nobody cares, because you've quite cooperatively helped Geko and D'Angelo kill PvP. So has the guy who stormed off-you got myopic, focused on endgame level and you let the whole mechanism to grow new opponents and partners whither away.
It's simple-Cryptic is numbers/metrics driven and they rely on selling power-creep. The only way to turn that boat around, is to...
Turn the bloody boat around and start over, start re-building the community from the ground up, stop fretting over endgame and the way that PvE does NOT train new players, and take over the role you, I, and every other experienced PvP player should have been doing in the first place...
Nothing will happen unless we make it happen. Nothing. Without an active community that is involved Cryptic will do the same thing it has done for going on two years, promoting a paradigm of a solo-on-line-churn-station with starfleetish graphics and bad writing.
******** on the forums about 'the company' isn't going to have an impact-if it were to have one, it would already have one. ******** in ESD, Ganalda, K-7, etc. won't make it happen either-it's on the community, Cryptic will never listen as long as the metrics remain set up to give would-be PvP'ers at endgame who've never touched it a collection of rude shocks that demoralize them out of the activity and spread badmouthing of the mode of play to their friends and fleeties.
yes, it's a risk. You're getting a whole brand-new slot for Delta Recruitment, maybe you should think about how you can use it to revive a play style you claim to love.
I know what I'm doing with mine.
How dare you bring logic and reason to a forum!!!!!! Big ups man.
Forgive me if I sound negative on your most recent post, but it has been tried in multiple formats. We tried the same thing in the past with f2p as there was an influx of new characters who never played STO before coming in (previously, it was subscription based only). We have also gone through multiple strategies such as PVP Bootcamp, OPVP channel, Vanilla PvP matches, Tyler Durden, etc....so your idea is in a long line of similar ideas to "revive PvP"
While I am sure it will be fun for those who play it, it will not change the minds of the devs because no one wants to play their broken pvp. I sure don't anymore.
Instead, I load up a 12 year old game (SFC2:OP) and play against the NPCs there. That game is at least more realistic and practical and actually has a Star Trek feel to it. STO, while starting out ok, became nothing more than a nickel and dime grab and they can shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
However, I do support your ideas. You'll just have to convince former PvPers to actually care after years of being hung out to dry.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
looks like a lot of fun, will try it next after I finish leveling up a couple of mechs in MWO
I've been playing with this a little. Two problems with it, one is its browser-based and I hate those, the other is its beta and buggy as heck. On the other hand its fun as hell. Great combat pacing. Its like the old CoD:UO compat maps all over again, jump in a vehicle to move up front, crawl along a tree line and snipe the enemy, pick up an assault weapon and storm a house, so much fun. Can't wait for them to polish this up.
My guess is that the level 60 + specialisation grind are a big part of why the PVP population isn't what it used to be.
Take a look at this graph showing the number of weekly submissions to the leaderboard. Obviously this data is far from representative for the population, but other than the flatlining in the wake of Delta Rising, you can also see a big drop in late 2013. The beginning of this low activity phase coincides with the release of the fleet spire (which for the first time brought better tac consoles that had a major impact on PVP) and its end coincides with the time when the first fleets were completing their spires and making spire tac consoles available to the masses.
If something as comparatively simple as the fleet spire had such a profound impact on PVP participation, then it's really no surprise that DR utterly destroyed it.
Comments
yeah yeah "Learn to Ground" is next, yeah? lol
I know some of these exploits have been rectified but it left a bad taste in the mouth when its just the same 5 peepz everytime.
If PvP could be made more accessible, it's be cool. this is coming from a guy that tries it every now an again for different gameplay and challenge. But it jsut kinda left a bad impression.
They hadn't put a price tag on PVP
Forced a Grind that they continue to make longer and only benefits players who have "no life".
Continued to increase the power creep that caters to PVE with no regard to balance in PVP.
They actually cared about PVP to give more improvements then Shuttle PVP that some one must have created on their spare time.
Had created a way to both PVE and PVP feel like there was a true War with Federation vs. Klingons.
Had made it so that STFs had meaning beyond just another point grind for personal grinds. For example: Even though that cool awesome gear can be grinded out, can also be dropped from STF X, Y, or Z.
Had actually added PVP to the Fleet System for Fleet vs. Fleet PVP.
Made Life time Subscriptions feel more worth it then just another mild upgrade that even subscribers can access.
Yeah... then I might have continued to play STO, and even PVPed in it.
I gave them 4 years to get their stuff together. I have a life time sub, so I can't say I've "Quit" plying. But I can say I have lost compete faith in Cryptic Studios to even bother doing anything other then letting my Stipend build up, see something I want, waste the stipend, then log out again.
Because so far, there isn't a single new grind they are releasing that is making me want to dust off the game and play it.
So go ahead, love STO. Just don't try to force it the disgusting product that Cryptic has put together that veterans have finally gotten tired of dealing with. :rolleyes:
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Take a look at my posts, eh? Notice what's included in pretty much each of them there? Take a look at your posts, eh? Then look up the definition of ranting, yeah? And maybe the quote "The lady doth protest too much, methinks..." and how some of your posts are starting to come off like, eh?
lol think you should stick to math virus. At least its something you're somewhat good at, eh?
That made about as much sense as buying lingerie for the neighbor's dog...
If you don't do the grind, your not going to be able to participate in PVP at the level that is required of you in PVP. Especially the open Queues/"Open"PVP zone(s)
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
If the tone of recent posts does not change for the better, it will be this thread that is dead. Two of you in particular need to stop replying to each other. I will not name names, but after this I will be issuing warnings and editing posts.
If someone posts something offensive or that makes you mad, do not reply. If it violates forum rules, report it and one of the mods will investigate.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Things start to get a bit out of hand...next thing...next thing...working against getting caught up in moderation while dancing up to the line...next thing...next thing...bob and weave, bob and weave...wheeee. Oh well.
Nah just scrape his paint follwed by an up yours ship to ship text message. Don't forget to exchange insurance info when scraping the paint of his ship.
This is STO...we don't scrape paint...we scrape shields!
I have to wonder about that particular ability, to be honest. Is it for the folks that can fly to give them something cool to do or is it more a case of making the folks that can't fly feel better about what they're doing?
Yea I remember, it was a pleasure contacting you and approaching to get to know each other.
It's a shame that you were incapable of participating in most of the bigger tourneys back then due to the difference in time zone that prevented you from fielding your entire team mainly at the weekend when most of the tourneys were held as you pointed it out to me.
We've always had good games against the vipers and parted on amicable terms after each encounter
-=Hannibal - Inner Circle PvP-Department=-
Hannibal's YouTube PvP-channel (under construction)
More Inner Circle PvP-Action worth watching from: Hank, Mira Theng and Zimbilimbim
Heh, keep an eye out on some of Trendy's posts, you can fake getting in after the lock - cause there will be the post about the thread being closed but it's not closed right then. Like I said earlier in this thread, I got old and don't have the magic skills for stuff like that.
free jkname
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
C'mon, you know discussing moderation could kill this thread off while there is still plenty of fun to be had in it. There's a chance for this thread to carry on in its informative and positive manner so that folks might find what they're looking for out of the game or find those that want the same thing so they might come together and present a more unified and coherent voice for what they'd hope be done.
like the last thread?
free jkname
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Me²
*** R.I.P. ***
Are you sure you're not mixing me up with someone else? Cause I haven't quit "ages" ago, I've merley stopped logging in regularly since January.
And I do not recall bashing new players or talking badly about any organized form of PvP ever.
You think I haven't helped and supported PvP? Really. You've got to be kidding me.
You don't know me, you have no idea but I suppose I can't blame you for that.
Yup, being nice and friendly, making friends, diplomatic, helping out everyone and their mothers, yada yada yada, makes you popular.
But that also makes you the victim of people who take advantage of you and your good will. Happened to me in so many ways but don't worry, I am not gonna bore you to death with old stories. I am not complaining or anything, I just do not understand why I always should be the nice guy.
People said to me so many times: "Can't you just cut him some slack, he has depressive disorder / he is an alcoholic / he had a tough childhood / he has other special needs / he is just an a-hole."
And I did cut a lot of slack. The nice and friendly part, which you appearantly still remember, right?
But seriously though, to all the nutjobs I had to deal with: Is this a madhouse, do I look like your therapist? Fine, you have daddy issues, I get it. But at one point, enough is enough man.
People want you to accommodate them, and to smile at them, while they stab and twist a knife into your chest.
You know what the biggest sin is?
Winning. Winning and not apologizing for it.
It makes people hate you.
One example:
I am pugging'lone and come across a premade, a casual PvP fleet. They shoot me, I don't die. They chase me, I retreat. They get mad, real mad, supper bosted mad, berate me with every word in the book, but they Just. Can't. Kill. Me. They get so uber mad, they yell bring yo' fleet, hide-yo-kids, private match, winner gets 500 mil EC. And we pwn them badly, but instead of money I only get a tell: "We're gonna hate you forever."
Then they go to the forum and start the slander, flamewar and all, til the thread gets deleted.
Was I part of flamewars? Sure. But I never drew first blood. Go ahead, find me an example where I did. I was never the one who instigated the trouble, never bashed new players or new fleets for being new. Go ahead find me an example where I allegedly did.
You are right that I indeed did change my demeanor at a certain point. And that was a conscious decision. But not out of bitterness, it was out of my desire to save my sanity. If that means to be perceived as polarizing, so be it. I'm done having consideration for special-needs people. I'm tired of people expecting me to kumbaya, when all what some detractors want is to bash me, bash my fleet, bash my friends.
Not gonna take TRIBBLE from people with issues. If that makes me evul in the eyes of some, I couldn't care less... :P
Actually, it's not that difficult to get along with me, as long as you don't expect me to put up a fake smile while trying to stab and twist a knife into me, we could get along just fine.
Good to speak with you again.
As a long time PvPer in the game (since beta) who has recently quit pretty much, no one knows what you are talking about better than I do. I held on for years hoping that cryptic would give the pvp community what it deserves and needs, but promise after promise became outright lies, and I got tired of it. Now, the new meta has utterly destroyed the game. If you want to continue the fight, more power to you.
Cryptic and PWE has destroyed the pvp side of this game, and they did it on purpose. I can't believe we have an online game to play a bunch of NPCs.. what do we need an online game for in that case?
Any of the current good pvpers only rose to power because all the old ones left
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Hear hear.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
While I am sure it will be fun for those who play it, it will not change the minds of the devs because no one wants to play their broken pvp. I sure don't anymore.
Instead, I load up a 12 year old game (SFC2:OP) and play against the NPCs there. That game is at least more realistic and practical and actually has a Star Trek feel to it. STO, while starting out ok, became nothing more than a nickel and dime grab and they can shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
However, I do support your ideas. You'll just have to convince former PvPers to actually care after years of being hung out to dry.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
I've been playing with this a little. Two problems with it, one is its browser-based and I hate those, the other is its beta and buggy as heck. On the other hand its fun as hell. Great combat pacing. Its like the old CoD:UO compat maps all over again, jump in a vehicle to move up front, crawl along a tree line and snipe the enemy, pick up an assault weapon and storm a house, so much fun. Can't wait for them to polish this up.
Take a look at this graph showing the number of weekly submissions to the leaderboard. Obviously this data is far from representative for the population, but other than the flatlining in the wake of Delta Rising, you can also see a big drop in late 2013. The beginning of this low activity phase coincides with the release of the fleet spire (which for the first time brought better tac consoles that had a major impact on PVP) and its end coincides with the time when the first fleets were completing their spires and making spire tac consoles available to the masses.
If something as comparatively simple as the fleet spire had such a profound impact on PVP participation, then it's really no surprise that DR utterly destroyed it.